Chastity

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Onsdag
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Re: Chastity

Post by Onsdag »

jsk wrote:Wow..I'm having a hard time believing some of the posters here are actually LDS...either that or they do not understand the repentance process. In my opinion those who are discouraging the OP from seeing her Bishop and her fiancé from seeing his Bishop are doing both of them a disservice. Like it or not, resolution of serious sin requires this step. Speaking from personal experience, this step is necessary and those claiming some parallel to Catholicism or that you can just work it out between you and God are off base.
That's because a good many people who frequent these boards are in truth no friends to the Church or the restored gospel. And they are all too eager to make their views known.

jsk
captain of 100
Posts: 452

Re: Chastity

Post by jsk »

Easy...he requires confession to the proper Ecclesiastical authority...in this case...the Bishop.

If her conscience is bothering her even though she has quit doing it and has taken steps to ensure it doesn't recur, this is pretty good evidence in my mind she needs to see the Bishop and clear it up.

I wonder how many of you telling her she shouldn't see the Bishop are active and believing LDS?

I think there is a very good chance that whatever she has done won't result in her ability to continue her education being compromised. After all, they stopped before they had intercourse. But even if it were compromised for a time, this is part of being accountable for your actions.

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ajax
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Location: Pf, Texas

Re: Chastity

Post by ajax »

Some aren't LDS here. Some purport to be Christian.

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Rensai
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Re: Chastity

Post by Rensai »

My advice is that it is between you, your fiancee, and God. Fast and pray about it. Most sins can be resolved by asking God for forgiveness and making it right with the person you've wronged. Sometimes we need to do more though. If you feel like you need to talk to a bishop, then do so.

Here's an article from the new era on it that might help.
https://www.lds.org/new-era/2013/10/why ... p?lang=eng

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Melissa
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Re: Chastity

Post by Melissa »

Sbell13 wrote:I am a recently engaged student attending BYU Idaho. My fiancé and I, before we reached engagement, had some severe sexual relations that came close to completely having intercourse, but stopped before reaching that point. These occurred several months ago and we have since then stopped to take steps towards repentance. We have no sexual or explicit physical contact anymore. We since got engaged and know we want a temple marriage, but we still need to talk to our bishops (we are in separate wards). He (my fiancé) is an endowed malchezidek priesthood holder, but I am not endowed at all. What are the potential consequences if we have been working sincerely towards temple marriage after our mistakes? What are the chances of disfellowship or even excommunication? How long might they be for?
First question you both need to talk about is...why do you want a temple marriage instead of a civil marriage first? And realize that in order to have a temple marriage you need to be temple worthy! He knows exactly what that is since he has been through already.

If you want the temple marriage first because it's the right LDS thing to do and because it's expected then reflect on the fact that you both have already burst that bubble with you actions together before marriage. What I mean is, your situation has changed from what's ideal already. It's okay though!

You guys didn't have sex that produces children but it sounds like severe sexual activity is a form of sex anyways. The leaders may view it very similar. See, the act matters but the heart matters too. And your hearts were to be sexual before it's acceptable to the Lord to do such.

Excommunication will not happen, sex didn't occure and you guys have stopped the behavior. You will not be held as responsible as him because you haven't made higher covenants that he has.

My advice....go to the bishop now together, should probably go to his. See what he says, what you two are looking at and facing to be married in the temple. Remember, you need to be worthy and the bishop is the to help and guide you...you are the judge and you will be held responsible.

Sin has consequences and part of that comes responsibility to repent and do what is required. Either stopping the behviors, making restitution, accepting the bishops guidelines for proper repentance etc. There is no way around it. Even if you got married today civily, you would still need to talk to the bishop to get a temple recommend and clear up these and any other sins that are unresolved.

Other choice is to get married civily and your side of things are basically cleared up and his will be less severe.

I was in nearly the exact situation except we did have sex and had stopped for 8 months before we decided to just get married civily and wait the year for the Temple. He went through a counsel and did not get excommunicated because he stopped the behavior. The counsel may or may not advise him to break it off with you, he would need to express a desire to marry you (your engagement says this) and the counsel just may urge you guys to get married.

Remember, time heals wounds but time doesn't cover sin.
You can't just not have relations for a year and then state that your worthy for a temple marriage. That's not how it works. You both were big enough people to act sexual together and big enough to get engaged, now be big enough to do it right and clear it up.

Trust me, you don't want to enter the temple unless you have cleared everything up. Don't skate the line, enter safe territory and be happy.

I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS
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Posts: 800

Re: Chastity

Post by I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS »

Ignore the members on here who are LDS in name only (if even that), and go ahead and confess. There are consequences, but it's highly doubtful excommunication would be one of them.
Some things are fine between you and the Lord and others the Lord requires confessing to an authority. Been there, done that and always felt better even if there were consequences.

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David13
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Location: Utah

Re: Chastity

Post by David13 »

I don't think you should try to take the easy way out on this.
What happened was serious enough for you to come here looking for advice. You got the advice with regard to the church and Christ's way which you know is the right way.
Some here told you to take the easy way out and basically forget about it, that it was "nothing". But if it was you would not have come here to ask.
It was something.
Now, if you take the easy way out here, what will happen in the future? Will other such things come up, and will it always be the same? Will it always be something you can handle on your own and kind of just forget about?
Don't take the easy way out.
Hold yourself to high standards. It will benefit you in the future.
dc

djinwa
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Posts: 809

Re: Chastity

Post by djinwa »

You need some good public shaming.

Tell the bishop what you've done, and receive disciplinary action, and then everyone in the ward can know what you did.

Seems we need a special armband or something for sexual sinners to wear.

Not only do different leaders mete out different consequences, but for the same sin, many won't confess.

So some go through all sorts of shame and suffering for their actions, while others don't say anything, and move on without problems.

Seems to depend on people's personality. Some people feel guilt easily and some don't. You don't really need to beat up the sensitive, as they feel bad enough already.

If I become a god, I would reduce the intensity of sexual urges. Why give such strong urges and promote the horrific acts perpetrated by the OP which requires extensive discipline and shaming and messing up lives. Why make such a mess out of things?

djinwa
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Posts: 809

Re: Chastity

Post by djinwa »

By the way, I'm guessing a lot more dating couples do this than we know about. I went too far with my fiancé, and was dumb enough to confess to my brother who was branch president. Who fortunately didn't make big deal of it, as he admitted he went too far also before marriage.

This is one more reason the church is accused of being a cult. Going in and telling some guy the details of your sexual experiences is creepy. Certainly opens the opportunity for perverts in leadership positions.

My brother's stake president was nailed in a sting operation soliciting sex from a teenage girl after traveling a couple hundred miles. My SIL cringed thinking of the times her daughters had been interviewed by the guy.

Sunain
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Re: Chastity

Post by Sunain »

Joel wrote:Different leaders do different things, the chances of disfellowship or excommunication vary from leader to leader. Think of it like playing roulette when it comes to different consequences. The time frames can vary too...excommunication usually takes longer than disfellowship, again it can depend on the leader you have.
That's a big issue in the church, you really have to know your leaders and how they will react to a situation like this. My current bishop would be extremely strict even in this situation whereas my previous bishop would probably take the fact that you realized it was wrong and are trying to repent and no other action would be taking. As many said in this thread, its really a bishop roulette.

Excommuncation is off the table for both of you, so don't be concerned about that. It will end up being discipline related to masturbation and petting which is a lot less significant penalty for endowed members. Unfortunately it's up to the bishops discretion and there is no way for us to know how he will examine your case. There is no demerit system. Every case is handled differently unfortunately.
djinwa wrote:This is one more reason the church is accused of being a cult. Going in and telling some guy the details of your sexual experiences is creepy. Certainly opens the opportunity for perverts in leadership positions.
I think what is also of concern is how often confidentiality is broken in the church and becomes gossip. The fact that people also have to wave off the sacrament leads to gossip too.

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Melissa
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Re: Chastity

Post by Melissa »

djinwa wrote:You need some good public shaming.

Tell the bishop what you've done, and receive disciplinary action, and then everyone in the ward can know what you did.

Seems we need a special armband or something for sexual sinners to wear.

Not only do different leaders mete out different consequences, but for the same sin, many won't confess.

So some go through all sorts of shame and suffering for their actions, while others don't say anything, and move on without problems.

Seems to depend on people's personality. Some people feel guilt easily and some don't. You don't really need to beat up the sensitive, as they feel bad enough already.

If I become a god, I would reduce the intensity of sexual urges. Why give such strong urges and promote the horrific acts perpetrated by the OP which requires extensive discipline and shaming and messing up lives. Why make such a mess out of things?
I wasn't shamed.

It's the mentality that everyone has to hide their imperfections that leads the sensitive to feel shamed for being human and making mistakes.

LDS have a weird way of being sometimes. We all know we're human and have bad days and make mistakes but for some dumb reason we all try to be super righteous and hide our human side. Which is wrong because it makes people feel like they have to and are different or don't fit in.

Without the strong urges...that we entertain and make stronger, we wouldn't procreate. We and our society have made sex way more in the open and perverted than it ever needed to be. If the urges were really too strong then why do we need to be bombarded with it everywhere to keep the "sexual high"?

nvr
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Posts: 1112

Re: Chastity

Post by nvr »

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I once heard an interesting observation from an older family member - of all they the friends and acquaintances they knew who had gotten divorced, in every case, the couple had broken the law of chastity with each other before getting married. This doesn't mean people that make mistakes are bound to end up divorced and vice versa, it can go both ways. We just need all the moral, spiritual preparation we can before embarking towards that commitment. I think you'll be glad to look back knowing you took care of everything and were clean and prepared heading towards it.

Anything involving clothing removed and subsequent intimate contact is considered the same as far as seriousness of transgression in the eyes of the Church. Confession will bring peace to you both and let you build on a solid foundation of total repentance and forgiveness.
The process is confidential with your priesthood leader only. I don't know where this false idea of your problems being aired publicly of to the rest of the church is coming from.

D&C 64:7 ... but verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, forgive sins unto those who confess their sins before me and ask forgiveness, who have not sinned unto death.
Mosiah 26:29 ...and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him shall ye forgive, and I will forgive him also.

TCG
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Re: Chastity

Post by TCG »

Sbell13 wrote:I am a recently engaged student attending BYU Idaho. My fiancé and I, before we reached engagement, had some severe sexual relations that came close to completely having intercourse, but stopped before reaching that point. These occurred several months ago and we have since then stopped to take steps towards repentance. We have no sexual or explicit physical contact anymore. We since got engaged and know we want a temple marriage, but we still need to talk to our bishops (we are in separate wards). He (my fiancé) is an endowed malchezidek priesthood holder, but I am not endowed at all. What are the potential consequences if we have been working sincerely towards temple marriage after our mistakes? What are the chances of disfellowship or even excommunication? How long might they be for?
Seems like your trying to dodge the bullet from doing what you know your supposed to do. Are you rationalizing and seeking sympathizers who will tell you what you wanna hear ? There are plenty in here who will bounce at the opportunity to do so.
We all fall short and are imperfect. Ufrtunately that includes bishops, Stake Presidents, fathers , mothers, brothers and sisters!!! Fortunately the Lord uses the weak and imperfect to carry forth his work.

I've seen it in myself as well as others, the pacifying effects the adversary uses to undermine sin. With the technological age among us, these chat rooms and social media have become our confession arenas. Easy access to spread all our dirty laundry behind a hidden screen. Ask yourself this; If everyone in this forum, complete strangers where in a room sitting behind a desk awaiting your confession face to face, would you still spill your dirty laundry? We have become quick to trust in th arm of flesh through different means!!

The Lord has anointed and called judges in Isreal for this purpose!!! It is a blessing to all parties involved. To the confessor it is a sanctity of cleansing and FORSAKING the sin, For the Judge anointed (Bishop) it is an opportunity to exercise his Priesthood in righteousness and love unfeigned. A proxy in helping bare the burden, edify, uplift, counsel, keep the light burning and confirm the Atonement!

The church organization and the Lords gospel is built for the individual. That's what make me love this church! If your looking for perfection in our leaders, your in the wrong church. If your Striving towards perfection with imperfect people, than go see your bishop.

Good Luck to you and your future husband. Trust in the Lord and trust in the process!

Ok bye

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skmo
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Re: Chastity

Post by skmo »

I wasn't going to comment, but I feel compelled to, and I don't argue any longer with the little voice who speaks much louder if I plug my ears.

I have been excommunicated for many years, and I am working my way back to full fellowship. It's been a slow, difficult situation, but I can say this: failure to do so on my part would have been disastrous, but each of us are different. The most important part is that you MUST do what your heart and soul tell you to do. Pray for guidance like you've never prayed for it before.

The MOST IMPORTANT part: DO NOT LET FEAR MAKE YOUR DECISION. I know fear of family and friends knowing can be horrifying, fear of being asked to leave school is a concern, but one of the most important lessons to learn as children of God is to learn to trust him. If there are seeds of doubt, fear, and/or shame hidden in a relationship. they can often turn into severe problems that can tear families apart. I would recommend serious time with both you and your intended on your knees searching for the answer to come to you, and when it does, accept it and go forward.

My best wishes for you. Do what you believe is The Right Thing and have faith. I certainly won't tell you what that right thing is, but I can assure you the wrong thing can destroy you. Take it from one who has been destroyed.

brianj
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Re: Chastity

Post by brianj »

Sbell13 wrote:I am a recently engaged student attending BYU Idaho. My fiancé and I, before we reached engagement, had some severe sexual relations that came close to completely having intercourse, but stopped before reaching that point. These occurred several months ago and we have since then stopped to take steps towards repentance. We have no sexual or explicit physical contact anymore. We since got engaged and know we want a temple marriage, but we still need to talk to our bishops (we are in separate wards). He (my fiancé) is an endowed malchezidek priesthood holder, but I am not endowed at all. What are the potential consequences if we have been working sincerely towards temple marriage after our mistakes? What are the chances of disfellowship or even excommunication? How long might they be for?
First off, let me state that excommunication is completely off the table for both you and your fiancee. I have known of people excommunicated for sexual sins, but every single one of them was either unrepentant or in a significant position of authority (Bishop, Stake President, former mission president).

Second, some people here are telling you to not confess, that it's between you and God. Please let me refer you to 26:29, 35, and 36, Helaman 16:1, and Moroni 6:7 to see that it is important to confess as part of your repentance. And D&C 58:43 plus 61:2 are just two examples to show that confession accompanies repentance.

I was going to refer to "somebody I know" but, after a reminder that confession is evidence of repentance and forgiveness I will say that I made the same mistakes you made, only we didn't stop in time. I was disfellowshipped for a few months, but I had lied in my temple recommend interview and entered the temple unworthily so I believe that I needed that as part of repentance. I would be surprised if either of your Bishops did anything more than ask for your fiancee's temple recommend and give an informal probation.

Confession hurts. It isn't easy to do, and is worse for you because of the fear of something that could impact your education. But please believe me when I say IT IS WORTH IT! The joy you will feel when you know that you are right with the Lord, when you partake of the sacrament after confessing, and when you enter the temple worthily will be wonderful!

Some people here have made comments about shaming you in front of the ward, but when I was the subject of a disciplinary council and was disfellowshipped, nobody but me and the Bishopric knew about it. I didn't even tell my wife until much later. Only one person on this board knows my real name, and therefore I can say that nobody knows I was disfellowshipped.

I will conclude with this encouragement: I was afraid to confess, and to participate in a disciplinary council, because I had read that I would be asked questions about the incident. I was expecting embarrassing questions of "Why did you do it?" and "Tell us exactly what you did." Instead I was shocked by the questions asked. They were things like "How did this impact you spiritually?" "How has it impacted your relationships?" Worthily partaking of the sacrament once I was no longer disfellowshipped, and worthily entering the temple, were tremendous blessings.

If you want to discuss this further, I would be happy to respond to any private messages you send me. But I would prefer to discuss this through private message or somewhere else because I don't want to publicly discuss private information.

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