Too soon to discount GAS?

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Original_Intent
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Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Original_Intent »

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-1 ... auguration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is there a coup underway, while America is in the transition period, and before Trump swears in as the 45th president of the United States?

How real is the clash between the rogue Manhattan billionaire and the intelligence gang behind the throne? Who will win the struggle for power over foreign policy? These are serious times and require serious considerations.

The U.S. sent an entire armored brigade to the Russian border, and Vladimir Putin is preparing as if for war. Missile defense systems are raised; tall claims and serious charges have been leveled; diplomatic relations have chilled to a permafrost. Several Russian diplomats have turned up dead recently, including one murdered in front of cameras during a dramatic assassination in Turkey. Russia has bucked U.S. order in the Middle East, and carved out a potential peace deal in Syria without their consultation.

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shadow
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by shadow »

The biggest issue I see is that we having NOTHING from GAS himself regarding his so-called prophecy.

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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by davedan »

shadow wrote:The biggest issue I see is that we having NOTHING from GAS himself regarding his so-called prophecy.
Yes, that is a big problem with it, in addition to its other problems. I think MLK Day is its last chance. I have to admit, I kinda liked having heard about the GAS vision, because It made me not worry so much about other more immediate rumors of doom and financial collapse. Now that this possible rumor is about to pass, I have mixed feelings. I am happy to have more time, but don't know what to look for as far as signs of immediate trouble (Damascus maybe, Isaiah 17:1-3?).

Now that Gen Mattis and other Trump cabinet members are indicating that the Trump administration is going to conduct foreign affairs in a "business as usual" and continue to put NATO troops in Norway, Poland, Baltics, etc; that might destroy any hope Putin had with working with Trump, and they may decide to "act" against the West sooner than later considering the US is in transition and we still have a very weak willed POTUS.
Last edited by davedan on January 13th, 2017, 10:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Original_Intent »

I agree, I don;t like it and that's why I don't give the prophecy itself a lot of credence. But I do look for conditions lining up with it. And prophecy or no, I think there are legitimate concerns of a major false flag or an actual attack as a means of disrupting the "smooth transition". I wouldn't put an assassination attempt off the table.

Silver
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Silver »

Friends, let not your heart be troubled. We are led by 15 prophets, seers and revelators, emphasis on seers. Do you actually think they know nothing about future events? Is it possible that the Lord would let America fall within the next week without giving us any warning through the prophet?

Satan is the father of contention. He is constantly stirring up the hearts of men to contention. Yes, we live in severe times. However, the end is not yet.
For example, have the two men prophesied to protect Jerusalem been placed there?

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Original_Intent
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Original_Intent »

I don't remember the pre- 9/11 warning from the prophet, or the pre-Pearl Harbor warning either.

So yeah, I think it's possible that specific major events can happen without prophetic warning. Their counsel, if followed, will likely help us in avoiding the negative effects, or at least the worst of them, but I think it is pretty naive to think we will get specific prophetic warning about every major geopolitical action.

I do remember a largely unheeded warning against Secret Combinations in Ether 8, but that's none of my business.

Silver
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Silver »

The difference, OI, is that America is host to the Church. While WW2 and 9/11 were frightening and costly, the country's future did not hang in the balance on December 7, 1941, nor on 9/11. This talk of invasions, simultaneous or otherwise, by Russia and China would obviously be a game-changer. We're talking massive loss of life, of territory and of freedoms of every kind. Potentially, Church leaders arrested or disappeared...think about that. Can you see how that would be different than the way things were on 9/11? I'm not saying the Church couldn't survive, but its mission would be severely limited.

I will maintain the faith that the Lord is still looking down on us and wants us to be prepared for the tribulations with enough advance warning for His followers to be saved. I suppose the argument could be made that all the post-invasion plans are in place among the General Authorities and yours truly is simply ignorant of them. I'm OK with that too, because I have prepared the things that the Church (not the false prophets) have told me to prepare.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Original_Intent »

OK, I think we have simply a different idea of what may be imminent.

I would say Pearl Harbor did LEAD to pretty massive loss of life, but let's set that aside for a moment.

I don't think there will be an invasion. I believe there will be a nuclear strike, probably not a full attack to wipe out civilization. I think it may be only one or two targets, with the real goal to push us into the full war that will lead to the GAS level of people dying like flies and conditions being worse than the Great Depression.

Everything is going to proceed in a very methodical way. Alarming, but not in a way that is going to cause people to say OMG, this is End Times Stuff! (Unless they were already predisposed to be watching ;) ) That's just me though. I also feel that our church leaders may be compromised. They may not be able to give specific warnings - even though they are PSRs do you think they are immune from being lulled into a sense of security? We have the example of Lehi who didn't give the heed necessary to the Liahona, and their families wandered in the wilderness and were unable to obtain food for a time as a result. Another reason is that we h\as a church have gone to pretty great lengths to befriend Babylon - both as a people and as an institution. that's my opinion, I know many here will disagree. But such entanglements do come at a price.

Silver
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Silver »

OI, thanks for explaining. I appreciate the opportunity to better understand your perspective.

I'm going to have fall on the side of the discussion that even if some portion of church leadership is compromised that the majority will not be.

President James E. Faust:
"Today I speak of keys other than those of metal. The keys I speak of never rust. These are the keys of life and salvation in the kingdom of God. The Prophet Joseph Smith said, 'I will give you a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.'" (end quote)
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... g=eng&_r=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The whole talk, delivered in the October, 1994, General Conference, is outstanding. Another powerful statement by Pres. Faust in that talk:
"Why are these spiritual keys so important? These spiritual keys hold “the right to enjoy the blessing of communication with the heavens, and the privilege and authority to administer in the ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ, to preach the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins.” Keys of the ministering of angels are the right of the Aaronic Priesthood. The higher Melchizedek Priesthood “holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.” To be efficacious and valid, every act in the Church must be performed under the authority of the keys at the appropriate time and place, and in the proper manner and order. The authority and power to direct all of the labors of the kingdom of God on earth constitute the keys of the priesthood. Those who possess them have the right to preside over and direct the affairs of the Church in their jurisdiction." (end quote, emphasis mine)

Because GAS did not come to us through "those who have the right to preside," we are not bound by it. We don't even need it because we have been warned separately how to prepare, and countless times at that. Because certain posters have threatened hellfire and damnation on the GAS non-believers, we can know that they are operating outside their stewardships. Because Seers have a gift that includes communication through the Holy Ghost, we needn't worry about lesser lights may proclaim.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Original_Intent »

No we are not bound by it, and I'm not convinced it is true. Simply something I am mindful of.

Another consideration in the discussion is that yes, this is a land of promise, but that promise is conditional. One of those conditions is that if we do not serve the God of this land that we will be wiped off as previous civilizations have been. So we must first ask ourselves have we as a nation lived up to this requirement? Have we, even as a church lived up to it? I will leave you to reach your own inspired answer to that question.
The second question we must then ask is, if the Lord sets His hand to cleanse this nation, does it make sense that he would direct His prophet to raise the warning voice of the impending calamities? We have certainly been repeatedly warned regarding preparedness, upholding the Constitution, not allowing secret combinations to get above us - I would also go so far as to say that we have, even recently been warned of difficult times ahead, of the need to dedicate ourselves to the Lord in order to be ready for times more difficult than even the conditions the pioneers faced.

If you think there should be more specific warnings if there is something imminent and major, I again ask - if the Lord has set His hand against us (The United States) would we get specific, detailed warning? Even the Nephites, when they were living righteously, still maintained watch towers and watchmen, they did not presume that the Lord would warn them of a Lamanite invasion/

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kittycat51
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by kittycat51 »

Silver wrote:Friends, let not your heart be troubled. We are led by 15 prophets, seers and revelators, emphasis on seers. Do you actually think they know nothing about future events? Is it possible that the Lord would let America fall within the next week without giving us any warning through the prophet?

Satan is the father of contention. He is constantly stirring up the hearts of men to contention. Yes, we live in severe times. However, the end is not yet.
For example, have the two men prophesied to protect Jerusalem been placed there?
My personal belief is that when the 2 are placed in Jerusalem, it will not be known by most. For it to be such a specific prophesy, can you imagine what the "world" or "media" would do with that info? Mock? Twist? I think there would be consequences to that.

As far as being forewarned, we have been many times. It's up to us to watch and be prepared. Again I don't think the media would take kindly if the prophet warned us that say next week a nuclear bomb was going to be dropped at such and such of place.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Original_Intent »

Yet another consideration is speed of communication. In the ancient past, a prophet could prophesy something like an attack and the attacker wouldn't know about their target being forewarned. Along the lines of what kittycat said, can you imagine if a prophet made a specific statement and it happened? All the enemies of the church would either say that the prophet was working with the enemy to know such details, or they would construe the prophecy as a request on the enemy to do the attack. On the other hand can you imagine being Russia and planning to attack a target, and then have it published in advance where and when you were planning on striking? Would you then follow thru on the attack? And then the prophet would be labeled a false prophet. So I think there are multiple reasons why the Lord might deem to not have the prophet openly state such a thing.

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skmo
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by skmo »

It isn't too soon to discount it today. It wasn't too soon last week. It wasn't too soon before the election. It wasn't too soon before O'buffoon got himself elected back in '12 or even '08. It wasn't too soon when Reagan was elected, whether you're talking about him being elected President, Governor, or President of SAG.

It likely wouldn't have been too soon the day after it was ever first recorded, because had the person who wrote it down showed it to President Smith to be sure the words were written correctly, I believe President Smith's words would have been "How drunk were you that night?"

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Rensai
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Rensai »

Original_Intent wrote:No we are not bound by it, and I'm not convinced it is true. Simply something I am mindful of.

Another consideration in the discussion is that yes, this is a land of promise, but that promise is conditional. One of those conditions is that if we do not serve the God of this land that we will be wiped off as previous civilizations have been. So we must first ask ourselves have we as a nation lived up to this requirement? Have we, even as a church lived up to it? I will leave you to reach your own inspired answer to that question.
The second question we must then ask is, if the Lord sets His hand to cleanse this nation, does it make sense that he would direct His prophet to raise the warning voice of the impending calamities? We have certainly been repeatedly warned regarding preparedness, upholding the Constitution, not allowing secret combinations to get above us - I would also go so far as to say that we have, even recently been warned of difficult times ahead, of the need to dedicate ourselves to the Lord in order to be ready for times more difficult than even the conditions the pioneers faced.

If you think there should be more specific warnings if there is something imminent and major, I again ask - if the Lord has set His hand against us (The United States) would we get specific, detailed warning? Even the Nephites, when they were living righteously, still maintained watch towers and watchmen, they did not presume that the Lord would warn them of a Lamanite invasion/
Hey, I might be a bit off topic here, but I've been thinking about that very thing (highlighted) ever since the election. As near as we can tell, Hillary really did win the popular vote. Luckily it wasn't enough to win the election, but it got me thinking about the majority choosing her despite her well known crimes, lies, etc. No matter how much dirt came out about her the majority stuck with her. I can't help but wonder if that is significant. With Obama, and every other past presidential election, they always appeared at least to be law abiding citizens. This election was very different in that regard. I don't know of any instance when its been such a clear example of the majority choosing evil. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but you have to wonder.
Mosiah 29:27 And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land.
As for your second question, I actually do think the Lord would raise a warning voice before calamity strikes. When you look at the past examples in the BoM and other scriptures, God always gives them every chance to repent and he does tell them exactly what will happen if they do not. He wants them to know the consequences of their evil. So while it may seem illogical, I think he would do exactly that and sadly, just like the Jaredites, Nephites, Israelites, etc if the people are sufficiently wicked, they will completely ignore the warning and bring destruction down on themselves.

You mentioned how the Nephites maintained watch towers and that's true of course, but when there was something big enough to threaten the whole civilization, they did get a warning from a prophet, no matter how wicked they were.

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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Rensai, thanks so much for sharing your insights which led me to check when our political candidates are chosen. Trump and Hillary were the clear front runners the first week of April.

That will be 7 years from this April when Trumps policies will cause 7 years of prosperity to commence.

I'll link this thread in my 2030 thread that has shifted to 2031 per discussion there, while matching said presidential timeline. Here follows an article confirming said front runners were known at said time.

Claude Brodesser-Akner | on April 05, 2016 at 9:49 PM, updated April 06, 2016 at 9:36 AM

The time for the 2016 Republican National Convention is nigh! The event picks the GOP nominees for the president and vice president in the 2016 presidential contest and serves as the "beginning of the beginning" the General Election. But this year, there are quirks and twists and oddities that not only make it different from the Democratic convention a week later, but which may shape this year's GOP race like none in recent memory. ...

GOP front-runner Donald Trump is currently facing ... http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/20 ... _clev.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

davedan
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by davedan »

FYI, sorry not to post earlier: Not sure if this discredits this story more but:

My father spoke with David Horne 2 days ago (they are close friends). In collaboration with his brother, an MD who was age 15 at the time of the George Albert Smith Family Home Evening (David was 11), there were two ERRORS in the written document to be used only among his family that got on the Internet:
1. "Whether or not the candidate was of Greek extraction."
2. "The war would begin on a National Holiday before the inauguration."

David Horne said further that the conflict would be over Russia demanding the return of Alaska.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/9880634" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There have been several semi-recent media warnings of Russia wanting to invade Alaska. If Trump were to drill in ANWR, gas would go to <1$/gal and the Russian economy would be sunk.

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Durzan
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Durzan »

Well that right there proves that the document that made it onto the internet was false because of those errors. If those errors were not in there, then the document on the internet would be a faithful transcribing of the original writings.

That is of course assuming that David Horne isn't just trying to save his own hide by correcting the document. I myself would tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Note that for the most part, I tend to be Agnostic to these kinds of things...

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rewcox
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by rewcox »

davedan wrote:FYI, sorry not to post earlier: Not sure if this discredits this story more but:

My father spoke with David Horne 2 days ago (they are close friends). In collaboration with his brother, an MD who was age 15 at the time of the George Albert Smith Family Home Evening (David was 11), there were two ERRORS in the written document to be used only among his family that got on the Internet:
1. "Whether or not the candidate was of Greek extraction."
2. "The war would begin on a National Holiday before the inauguration."

David Horne said further that the conflict would be over Russia demanding the return of Alaska.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/9880634" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There have been several semi-recent media warnings of Russia wanting to invade Alaska. If Trump were to drill in ANWR, gas would go to <1$/gal and the Russian economy would be sunk.
As we have learned with the ninja preppers, a little tweak, and the story continues! Go GAS!

paulrobots
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by paulrobots »

davedan wrote:FYI, sorry not to post earlier: Not sure if this discredits this story more but:

My father spoke with David Horne 2 days ago (they are close friends). In collaboration with his brother, an MD who was age 15 at the time of the George Albert Smith Family Home Evening (David was 11), there were two ERRORS in the written document to be used only among his family that got on the Internet:
1. "Whether or not the candidate was of Greek extraction."
2. "The war would begin on a National Holiday before the inauguration."

David Horne said further that the conflict would be over Russia demanding the return of Alaska.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/9880634" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There have been several semi-recent media warnings of Russia wanting to invade Alaska. If Trump were to drill in ANWR, gas would go to <1$/gal and the Russian economy would be sunk.
So how did the conversation end?

Sort of like, "I wouldn't worry about anything, it won't happen soon."

Or more like, "If you don't have all your food storage, you better get it NOW!"

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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Benjamin_LK »

I don't take the GAS seriously, but the general events leading to whole cities going under the sea or burning down will be the equivalent of many Ammonihahs. So it will already be a situation gone south. If the United States goes into civil war, it will get nuked.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by Original_Intent »

OK, it's not too soon anymore! :) (and I am thankful!)

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h_p
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by h_p »

Original_Intent wrote:OK, it's not too soon anymore! :) (and I am thankful!)
And so am I. There are very few things the Lord has told me in words clear enough to be almost audible. One of those was that I am not spiritually ready for what's coming. :-(

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AI2.0
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by AI2.0 »

davedan wrote:FYI, sorry not to post earlier: Not sure if this discredits this story more but:

My father spoke with David Horne 2 days ago (they are close friends). In collaboration with his brother, an MD who was age 15 at the time of the George Albert Smith Family Home Evening (David was 11), there were two ERRORS in the written document to be used only among his family that got on the Internet:
1. "Whether or not the candidate was of Greek extraction."
2. "The war would begin on a National Holiday before the inauguration."

David Horne said further that the conflict would be over Russia demanding the return of Alaska.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/9880634" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There have been several semi-recent media warnings of Russia wanting to invade Alaska. If Trump were to drill in ANWR, gas would go to <1$/gal and the Russian economy would be sunk.
So this is how deceivers try to save the GAS prophecy? Claiming those two prophecies were not in the original, but were errors in some supposed 'internet document' that wasn't meant for the public? That's a falsehood, because Horne donated them and they are open to the public, NOT just his family.

I'm not accusing you Davedan, but you are being used by someone else who is now pushing this fraudulent claim in an effort to mislead the public and keep this obviously flawed document relevant.

There are only two accounts which were written by David Horne in 1989 and he donated the longer account to the Harold B. Lee Library that year. These two accounts are Horne's which have been shared over the internet. They both document clearly that David Horne said those things--the Candidate would be of greek extraction and the war would begin on a National holiday, between the election and the inauguration. The proof is there, these two 'errors' are in his original accounts and up until they signaled the death knell for this 'prophecy', there was NO question that they were the originals Horne shared himself. The fact that someone is now trying to claim these two portions were not part of the originals tells me that there are some people involved in this who wish to mislead the public with lies.

Here is the call number for this document which David Horne donated to the library in 1988.

https://findingaid.lib.byu.edu/viewItem/MSS%206105
Preferred Citation
Initial citation: MSS 6105; David Hughes Horne recollection of a vision by George Albert Smith; 20th Century Western and Mormon Americana; L. Tom Perry Special Collections, Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University. Following citations: MSS 6105, LTPSC.
Custodial History
Donated by David Hughes Horne in 1989.
Acquisition Information
Donated; David Hughes Horne; 1989.

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AI2.0
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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by AI2.0 »

Durzan wrote:Well that right there proves that the document that made it onto the internet was false because of those errors. If those errors were not in there, then the document on the internet would be a faithful transcribing of the original writings.

That is of course assuming that David Horne isn't just trying to save his own hide by correcting the document. I myself would tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Note that for the most part, I tend to be Agnostic to these kinds of things...
The Horne's CAN'T save this because David Horne, being thorough, donated his account to the BYU library almost 30 years ago and this is the document which has made it's way all over the internet, not some bogus internet copy meant 'only for the family'.

David Horne did once before make changes to his account--during Obama's presidency, he changed 'greek' to 'non-european ancestry' and now someone is trying to change it by removing things---which is clearly an attempt to mislead.

One has to ask, when Horne corrected the 'greek' part, if it was completely wrong, why did he not simply take it out? Why did he change it? And also, why didn't he also point out that the information about the holiday shouldn't be there? The answers are obvious.

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Re: Too soon to discount GAS?

Post by davedan »

The issue here is David Horne's older brother Robert who was 15 at the time. Dr. Robert Horne is more tight-lipped on the GAS vision but disagreed with the "Greek" detail and maybe others, but has never publically recorded his remembrance.

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