The Earth is Not a Globe!?! Is God literal, water above and below the firmament?

[larsenb]

. . . . Most think we're just nuts being "Crazy Mormons" as my friend Monica likes to call us. I think we can stand a rainbow of 'crazy' around here. . ..

Yes, but why drive the nail home on that impression?? Arguing for a flat earth kind of does that.

[AI2.0]

Try to cut through what you think is mocking. Many explanations/proofs have been put forth for the global shape of the earth, and without a hint of mocking.

If you had a strong position, I doubt you would be deterred by what you construe as mocking. I think you're being too sensitive . . another indication of a weak position.

I'm not trying to accuse one individual here of doing any one thing because I can't judge any one of your intents, that's what you should do before you post. I am simply trying to offer advice to those I see doing more harm than good. I ask you though, if you are not mocking... then why did my comment spur your conscience?
Carry on.
%%- ^#(^

Small farm, if you aren't aware, this is your 'M.O.'. You swoop in on conversations and if you think someone is disagreeing too strongly, you'll criticize them for it. Larsenb was not mocking. Your perception is off (and yes, I expect you'll think I'm 'mocking' you now. 8-| ).

And simply put, the belief that the earth might be flat is wrong. It's false, it's wrong. I don't care if a majority of persons on this forum were persuaded by these videos that the earth was flat, I'd still say, they are wrong. It is round, it is a globe, whatever you want to call it, just like the other planets in our solar system. If my continuing to insist on this fact is 'mean' or mocking or bullying, sorry, I'm still going to stand my ground.

I don't have to support every wrong theory that others choose to believe simply to keep peace on the forum. I don't have to agree or remain silent in order to be supportive. IMO, it does more harm than good to accept false beliefs in order to make people feel accepted or validated.

[SmallFarm]

Try to cut through what you think is mocking. Many explanations/proofs have been put forth for the global shape of the earth, and without a hint of mocking.

If you had a strong position, I doubt you would be deterred by what you construe as mocking. I think you're being too sensitive . . another indication of a weak position.

I'm not trying to accuse one individual here of doing any one thing because I can't judge any one of your intents, that's what you should do before you post. I am simply trying to offer advice to those I see doing more harm than good. I ask you though, if you are not mocking... then why did my comment spur your conscience?
Carry on.
%%- ^#(^

Small farm, if you aren't aware, this is your 'M.O.'. You swoop in on conversations and if you think someone is disagreeing too strongly, you'll criticize them for it. Larsenb was not mocking. Your perception is off (and yes, I expect you'll think I'm 'mocking' you now. 8-| ).

And simply put, the belief that the earth might be flat is wrong. It's false, it's wrong. I don't care if a majority of persons on this forum were persuaded by these videos that the earth was flat, I'd still say, they are wrong. It is round, it is a globe, whatever you want to call it, just like the other planets in our solar system. If my continuing to insist on this fact is 'mean' or mocking or bullying, sorry, I'm still going to stand my ground.

I don't have to support every wrong theory that others choose to believe simply to keep peace on the forum. I don't have to agree or remain silent in order to be supportive. IMO, it does more harm than good to accept false beliefs in order to make people feel accepted or validated.

Never did I say that larsenb was mocking. He quoted me so I responded to him. That is y'alls M.O.

[SmallFarm]

If you guys don't want my advice and respond to it by implying I'm something I'm not I'll just take myself elsewhere good day!

[SmallFarm]

Try to cut through what you think is mocking. Many explanations/proofs have been put forth for the global shape of the earth, and without a hint of mocking.

If you had a strong position, I doubt you would be deterred by what you construe as mocking. I think you're being too sensitive . . another indication of a weak position.

I'm not trying to accuse one individual here of doing any one thing because I can't judge any one of your intents, that's what you should do before you post. I am simply trying to offer advice to those I see doing more harm than good. I ask you though, if you are not mocking... then why did my comment spur your conscience?
Carry on.
%%- ^#(^

Small farm, if you aren't aware, this is your 'M.O.'. You swoop in on conversations and if you think someone is disagreeing too strongly, you'll criticize them for it. Larsenb was not mocking. Your perception is off (and yes, I expect you'll think I'm 'mocking' you now. 8-| ).

And simply put, the belief that the earth might be flat is wrong. It's false, it's wrong. I don't care if a majority of persons on this forum were persuaded by these videos that the earth was flat, I'd still say, they are wrong. It is round, it is a globe, whatever you want to call it, just like the other planets in our solar system. If my continuing to insist on this fact is 'mean' or mocking or bullying, sorry, I'm still going to stand my ground.

I don't have to support every wrong theory that others choose to believe simply to keep peace on the forum. I don't have to agree or remain silent in order to be supportive. IMO, it does more harm than good to accept false beliefs in order to make people feel accepted or validated.

You know what... I'm not oversensitive you're arrogant.

[Robin Hood]

. . . Throwing around unfounded accusations like that is not nice. That is why I was asking you to prove your accusations; you're not the only one saying mean things about people who believe differently than you on this thread, and trying to falsely show how horrible they are. This doesn't help, and just makes this forum look like "nuts" and... sorry, I forgot how larsenb put it...

Unfortunately or not, I would guess something close 99.9999% of the adult population that could read, if they come into this forum and see this long, long thread discussing whether the earth was flat vs. globe-shaped, would come to this conclusion (e.g., "The folks supporting a flat earth on this forum are NUTS!")

That's just the reality of it . . . ; and I believe that is how the vast majority of people would see it.

Most people who come on this forum haven't responded to the poll at the head of this thread because they see it as rather ridiculous . . myself included. If they did respond, you would begin to see the numbers in support of a globe-shaped earth moving out to the 99.9999% value.

And I would therefore be forced to conclude that 99.9999% of the adult population are moronic sheeple.

What a strange position to stake out for yourself. You surprise me. Or are you simply lashing out at me because I indirectly called you out on your extreme judgementality of a particular person??

Nope.
Don't know what you're talking about.

[larsenb]

Unfortunately or not, I would guess something close 99.9999% of the adult population that could read, if they come into this forum and see this long, long thread discussing whether the earth was flat vs. globe-shaped, would come to this conclusion (e.g., "The folks supporting a flat earth on this forum are NUTS!")

That's just the reality of it . . . ; and I believe that is how the vast majority of people would see it.

Most people who come on this forum haven't responded to the poll at the head of this thread because they see it as rather ridiculous . . myself included. If they did respond, you would begin to see the numbers in support of a globe-shaped earth moving out to the 99.9999% value.

And I would therefore be forced to conclude that 99.9999% of the adult population are moronic sheeple.

What a strange position to stake out for yourself. You surprise me. Or are you simply lashing out at me because I indirectly called you out on your extreme judgementality of a particular person??

Nope.
Don't know what you're talking about.

That's good. Forgive and forget. A very good trait. I wish I could learn that. I'm more Sicilian when it comes to that type of thing.

[JohnnyL]

Try to cut through what you think is mocking. Many explanations/proofs have been put forth for the global shape of the earth, and without a hint of mocking.

If you had a strong position, I doubt you would be deterred by what you construe as mocking. I think you're being too sensitive . . another indication of a weak position.

I'm not trying to accuse one individual here of doing any one thing because I can't judge any one of your intents, that's what you should do before you post. I am simply trying to offer advice to those I see doing more harm than good. I ask you though, if you are not mocking... then why did my comment spur your conscience?
Carry on.
%%- ^#(^

My comment about 'nuts', etc., was a genuine fear of how people new to the forum may take it. If any real mocking crept in, you've got to understand how hard it is fro me to take the 'flat earth' hypothesis seriously. I'm human.

Most think we're just nuts being "Crazy Mormons" as my friend Monica likes to call us. I think we can stand a rainbow of 'crazy' around here.

Lol, right on. I'd say at least 80% of the world thinks we are absolutely nuts, and the other 20% might be iffy on that call. That's what's so funny about it all--"I believe in a plethora of incredibly ridiculous/ miraculous/ way out/ weird things in my religion, but THAT is nuts, and I have to prove how dumb it is, and how wrong you are." 80% of the world is already saying that to every Mormon!! Oh well. It's like Jung's Shadow.

[Spaced_Out]

Thanks for posting that Spaced_Out. I think that global navigation and gps systems are hard ones for flat earthers to explain away. Question for you: can you see the North Star from Australia?

The ancient Greeks noticed if there was a star low on the northern horizon by walking due south it would go out of view, one could try it using a bicycle or car if you had a road going N-S.

No but we have the southern cross it is in the Australian flag, does that count?

[Ungläubige]

Thanks for posting that Spaced_Out. I think that global navigation and gps systems are hard ones for flat earthers to explain away. Question for you: can you see the North Star from Australia?

The ancient Greeks noticed if there was a star low on the northern horizon by walking due south it would go out of view, one could try it using a bicycle or car if you had a road going N-S.

No but we have the southern cross it is in the Australian flag, does that count?

Excellent. I'd heard that the North Star wasn't visible from the Southern Hemisphere - good to have confirmation

I haven't seen the southern cross personally

[Spaced_Out]

Excellent. I'd heard that the North Star wasn't visible from the Southern Hemisphere - good to have confirmation

I haven't seen the southern cross personally

Southern cross virtual view and explanation as why it is not visible in the north.

Want to see what stars are visible from where you are check the google earth sky map and see what stars and planets are visible from from your location. Warning it will show a round earth and what heavenly bodes are visible in the night sky will be accurate, so if you are a flat earthere it might be a traumatic experience..

How to view google earth sky map.

[Spaced_Out]

In the vid that I linked to above the British astrophysicist mentions that orion belt looked upside down when viewed from Australia.
What is your flat earth explanation for the phenomenon.

Official explanation:

http://www.astronomy.com/magazine/ask-a ... erspective
Why do the constellations and the Moon appear upside down from the Southern Hemisphere?
Paul Kersey, Phillipsburg, New Jersey

From the Southern Hemisphere, any object or constellation that lies near the celestial equator (the imaginary line that divides the northern and southern halves of the sky) would appear both upside down and reversed left to right compared to a northern perspective.

[AI2.0]

Try to cut through what you think is mocking. Many explanations/proofs have been put forth for the global shape of the earth, and without a hint of mocking.

If you had a strong position, I doubt you would be deterred by what you construe as mocking. I think you're being too sensitive . . another indication of a weak position.

I'm not trying to accuse one individual here of doing any one thing because I can't judge any one of your intents, that's what you should do before you post. I am simply trying to offer advice to those I see doing more harm than good. I ask you though, if you are not mocking... then why did my comment spur your conscience?
Carry on.
%%- ^#(^

Small farm, if you aren't aware, this is your 'M.O.'. You swoop in on conversations and if you think someone is disagreeing too strongly, you'll criticize them for it. Larsenb was not mocking. Your perception is off (and yes, I expect you'll think I'm 'mocking' you now. 8-| ).

And simply put, the belief that the earth might be flat is wrong. It's false, it's wrong. I don't care if a majority of persons on this forum were persuaded by these videos that the earth was flat, I'd still say, they are wrong. It is round, it is a globe, whatever you want to call it, just like the other planets in our solar system. If my continuing to insist on this fact is 'mean' or mocking or bullying, sorry, I'm still going to stand my ground.

I don't have to support every wrong theory that others choose to believe simply to keep peace on the forum. I don't have to agree or remain silent in order to be supportive. IMO, it does more harm than good to accept false beliefs in order to make people feel accepted or validated.

You know what... I'm not oversensitive you're arrogant.

I don't know if you are oversensitive, but I do know that in this thread, your interactions are making ME feel like I'm a jerk because I refuse to go along with the possibility that the earth is flat. I'm sorry, but there is no possibility that the earth is flat. If believing that makes me arrogant, I guess I'm arrogant. I also would not entertain the possibility God doesn't exist because I know he does and I'll argue against anyone who says otherwise. There is some knowledge that IMO, is indisputable.

Other than that, I'm sorry if I offended you. My patience with some threads runs thin and I should probably move on myself.

[cayenne]

I think what is happening is in the flat earth everything like the stars (and Orion) are much much closer than were told. If you look at the orbits patterns of a flat earth, and everything in space being much closer, then Orion would be seen as upside down from one hemisphere to another. When it orbits above the USA in a flat earth model, it would appear upside down in Australia because of the nearness to earth. Also traveling east or west around the earth and back to your starting point also works with the flat earth. I think a lot of the comments on here against flat earth are those who have not taken the time to research it themselves.

I still would like someone to explain the flat horizon (if curvature exists) from a 121000 feet up weather balloon? I would like someone to explain NASA'S comments and even Obamas about never leaving low earth orbit yet?

[sandman45]

been watching a bunch of the flat earth stuff really interesting.. but whats blowing my mind is the whole NASA fake stuff wow.. especially the LOW EARTH ORBIT.. like cayenne mentioned.. I saw a video of a guy confronting the astronaughts who walked on the moon and asking them to swear on the bible that they were there.. non of them would do it and one of them punched the guy lol.. a few of them threatened him with lawsuits and stuff///

seriously if you really walked on the moon... whats the big deal putting your hand on the bible and swearing you did?

[Ungläubige]

been watching a bunch of the flat earth stuff really interesting.. but whats blowing my mind is the whole NASA fake stuff wow.. especially the LOW EARTH ORBIT.. like cayenne mentioned.. I saw a video of a guy confronting the astronaughts who walked on the moon and asking them to swear on the bible that they were there.. non of them would do it and one of them punched the guy lol.. a few of them threatened him with lawsuits and stuff///

seriously if you really walked on the moon... whats the big deal putting your hand on the bible and swearing you did?

So these astronauts are participants in one of the greatest deceptions and conspiracies in history, but they weren't willing to lie and put their hand on a bible?

[Kitkat]

been watching a bunch of the flat earth stuff really interesting.. but whats blowing my mind is the whole NASA fake stuff wow.. especially the LOW EARTH ORBIT.. like cayenne mentioned.. I saw a video of a guy confronting the astronaughts who walked on the moon and asking them to swear on the bible that they were there.. non of them would do it and one of them punched the guy lol.. a few of them threatened him with lawsuits and stuff///

seriously if you really walked on the moon... whats the big deal putting your hand on the bible and swearing you did?

I agree, I say to everything I have learned during my study time in this thread...that is interesting, maybe there is something to it. Can I prove the earth is flat? Nope. Do I feel like more is going on than we have been taught by Neil DeGrass Tyson and Bill Nye? Yep.

Remember, it isn't what you don't know that gets you into trouble - it is what you think you know that isn't so that gets you every time

[Kitkat]

Try to cut through what you think is mocking. Many explanations/proofs have been put forth for the global shape of the earth, and without a hint of mocking.

If you had a strong position, I doubt you would be deterred by what you construe as mocking. I think you're being too sensitive . . another indication of a weak position.

I'm not trying to accuse one individual here of doing any one thing because I can't judge any one of your intents, that's what you should do before you post. I am simply trying to offer advice to those I see doing more harm than good. I ask you though, if you are not mocking... then why did my comment spur your conscience?
Carry on.
%%- ^#(^

Small farm, if you aren't aware, this is your 'M.O.'. You swoop in on conversations and if you think someone is disagreeing too strongly, you'll criticize them for it. Larsenb was not mocking. Your perception is off (and yes, I expect you'll think I'm 'mocking' you now. 8-| ).

And simply put, the belief that the earth might be flat is wrong. It's false, it's wrong. I don't care if a majority of persons on this forum were persuaded by these videos that the earth was flat, I'd still say, they are wrong. It is round, it is a globe, whatever you want to call it, just like the other planets in our solar system. If my continuing to insist on this fact is 'mean' or mocking or bullying, sorry, I'm still going to stand my ground.

I don't have to support every wrong theory that others choose to believe simply to keep peace on the forum. I don't have to agree or remain silent in order to be supportive. IMO, it does more harm than good to accept false beliefs in order to make people feel accepted or validated.

You know what... I'm not oversensitive you're arrogant.

SmallFarm -

I always enjoy you thoughtful approach! Nothing wrong with showing good manners

[Ungläubige]

I think what is happening is in the flat earth everything like the stars (and Orion) are much much closer than were told. If you look at the orbits patterns of a flat earth, and everything in space being much closer, then Orion would be seen as upside down from one hemisphere to another. When it orbits above the USA in a flat earth model, it would appear upside down in Australia because of the nearness to earth. Also traveling east or west around the earth and back to your starting point also works with the flat earth. I think a lot of the comments on here against flat earth are those who have not taken the time to research it themselves.

I still would like someone to explain the flat horizon (if curvature exists) from a 121000 feet up weather balloon? I would like someone to explain NASA'S comments and even Obamas about never leaving low earth orbit yet?

Let me take a quick stab at an explanation about NASA's and Obama's comments - they were taken out of context and placed in a propaganda video.

Here are a couple links to transcripts from Astronaut Terry Virts and the President's statements. I'd challenge you to read them in context and then let's discuss them further.

http://www.euronews.com/2015/03/16/the- ... future-in-

https://www.nasa.gov/news/media/trans/o ... trans.html

[Ungläubige]

I think what is happening is in the flat earth everything like the stars (and Orion) are much much closer than were told. If you look at the orbits patterns of a flat earth, and everything in space being much closer, then Orion would be seen as upside down from one hemisphere to another. When it orbits above the USA in a flat earth model, it would appear upside down in Australia because of the nearness to earth. Also traveling east or west around the earth and back to your starting point also works with the flat earth. I think a lot of the comments on here against flat earth are those who have not taken the time to research it themselves.

I still would like someone to explain the flat horizon (if curvature exists) from a 121000 feet up weather balloon? I would like someone to explain NASA'S comments and even Obamas about never leaving low earth orbit yet?

Here is a video of the full moon sinking below the horizon on the ocean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp7FZj-6W1M

here is the sun sinking below the horizon on the ocean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ceDX1gHwKg

what these indicate to me is a non-flat rotating earth... (i.e. the sun and moon aren't disappearing due to perspective and increasing distance)

you could certainly argue that these were CGI or faked somehow, but anyone with modest means could duplicate this effort for themselves and get there own evidence

and here's a sunrise and a moonrise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ceDX1gHwKg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aBQrejGlAU

[braingrunt]

I was planning to conduct a sun/moon experiment at midday vs setting time, to prove constant angular velocity of those bodies (as predicted by round earth model); my belief was that the flat earth model, according to their semi-official map, would predict non-constant angular velocities (with respect to the viewer, mind, not with respect to the center of their map) -- and therefore demonstrate to myself that the most common flat-earth theory is false.
I was going to do this experiment because I thought it would be conclusive and was within my time and money budgets; eg I wouldn't need to buy a fancy laser, or have a team of people devoting one or more full days to it. I could just grab some household stuff and measure various angles at various times and have pretty good data for not much time or money.
But, I went over to the flat earth forums, mainly to get my most official numbers for sun height at this time of year, etc, and found this thread:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/for ... c=20989.90" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which already validates the result of the experiment, but questions the conclusions by saying that the optics of the firmament or the atmosphere or something causes a constant bend to light, such that not only can it appear low in the sky when it is actually higher, but many degrees east/west of it's actual location, and appear larger. (The way they drew it, indeed, such a thing might skew the angular velocity to look constant because the bend would get more and more pronounced as distance increased)

Well, I'll just say that I threw up my hands in defeat at that point. I can't disprove those optics with my skill set and my results would be meaningless to them. However, I can say, "look... why is God so hellbent on creating optics perfected to make us think the earth is round and spinning at a constant angular velocity? Isn't it simpler to say, yeah, its round and spinning at a CAV just like it appears?"

[Kitkat]

...However, I can say, "look... why is God so hellbent on creating optics perfected to make us think the earth is round and spinning at a constant angular velocity? Isn't it simpler to say, yeah, its round and spinning at a CAV just like it appears?"

a simple answer... to give every man / woman the opportunity to become as a child and exersize faith...

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. - 2nd Timothy 3:7

God let's us have what we want most, and there is an equal and opposite in all things. Science has taught the theory, it is a theory, of how the vast canyons were created over millions of years of erosion and such - then all the sudden, step forward to some bright minds of today (aka God allowing us to discover more of his creation-truths as the 2nd coming draws near, hopefully to draw more to believe in Him), and we are showing in labs, how canyons far greater than those on earth could easily be made within seconds and minutes, by using electricity, plasma (aka, the finger of God's lightening), and that the sun after all, is most likely a ball of plasma, electricity, not some nuclear oven that will burn out, the moon is possibly a cold opposite light to that of the sun, and the stars are most likely electrified in a liquid pure-water saline solution up above the firmament...

So you see, it would seem the perfect agency respecter, the perfect gentlemen, God, has setup everything to let us go way off on theories of evolution, erosion, gravity, etc.. as we please (the less we hear his voice, the more grandiose our math equations become, our theories pontificate), or.. and a big OR.... listen to his voice and learn some cool mysteries no other man on earth has even considered, and that from the perfect and ultimate scientist (Christ/God)...

According to scripture, the world in it's entirety and definition ("world") is deceived, all of it. So science doesn't have it all figured out, and when someone on "TV", an expert, a scientist, claims to prove something, one might ask God's opinion on the matter rather than trust the god of science, and as a God possessing blissful humor, He will point us to Youtube (something about Isaiah and truth shouted on the rooftops? internet anyone?) for us visual learners sometimes. to therein discern truth, go to the scriptures, be taught more because you are not an old wine bottle unwilling to accept new wine, and then take it to him to learn the mysteries of Godliness within topics like this flat earth theory - seriously, things no man has considered (those are the Lord's words).

It is so fun to understand the attributes of God and approach something like the flat earth. He loves when we are willing and open and inquisitive (like we do with our children), esp. when our hearts are telling us something is amiss with what NASA, Bill Nye, whomever is telling us... then the funnest part is when God reveals something that turns your knowledge on it's head, to then show you how your knowledge wasn't even close to understanding His creation.

We have mankind ever learning, but never coming to the truth. The whole world is deceived (ponder on that one literally, the whole round earth is deceived ).

[Ungläubige]

...However, I can say, "look... why is God so hellbent on creating optics perfected to make us think the earth is round and spinning at a constant angular velocity? Isn't it simpler to say, yeah, its round and spinning at a CAV just like it appears?"

a simple answer... to give every man / woman the opportunity to become as a child and exersize faith...

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. - 2nd Timothy 3:7

God let's us have what we want most, and there is an equal and opposite in all things. Science has taught the theory, it is a theory, of how the vast canyons were created over millions of years of erosion and such - then all the sudden, step forward to some bright minds of today (aka God allowing us to discover more of his creation-truths as the 2nd coming draws near, hopefully to draw more to believe in Him), and we are showing in labs, how canyons far greater than those on earth could easily be made within seconds and minutes, by using electricity, plasma (aka, the finger of God's lightening), and that the sun after all, is most likely a ball of plasma, electricity, not some nuclear oven that will burn out, the moon is possibly a cold opposite light to that of the sun, and the stars are most likely electrified in a liquid pure-water saline solution up above the firmament...

So you see, it would seem the perfect agency respecter, the perfect gentlemen, God, has setup everything to let us go way off on theories of evolution, erosion, gravity, etc.. as we please (the less we hear his voice, the more grandiose our math equations become, our theories pontificate), or.. and a big OR.... listen to his voice and learn some cool mysteries no other man on earth has even considered, and that from the perfect and ultimate scientist (Christ/God)...

According to scripture, the world in it's entirety and definition ("world") is deceived, all of it. So science doesn't have it all figured out, and when someone on "TV", an expert, a scientist, claims to prove something, one might ask God's opinion on the matter rather than trust the god of science, and as a God possessing blissful humor, He will point us to Youtube (something about Isaiah and truth shouted on the rooftops? internet anyone?) for us visual learners sometimes. to therein discern truth, go to the scriptures, be taught more because you are not an old wine bottle unwilling to accept new wine, and then take it to him to learn the mysteries of Godliness within topics like this flat earth theory - seriously, things no man has considered (those are the Lord's words).

It is so fun to understand the attributes of God and approach something like the flat earth. He loves when we are willing and open and inquisitive (like we do with our children), esp. when our hearts are telling us something is amiss with what NASA, Bill Nye, whomever is telling us... then the funnest part is when God reveals something that turns your knowledge on it's head, to then show you how your knowledge wasn't even close to understanding His creation.

We have mankind ever learning, but never coming to the truth. The whole world is deceived (ponder on that one literally, the whole round earth is deceived ).

It sounds like you've learned everything you need already. Way to go.

[cayenne]

An ex radio operator with a friend from MIT. He is discussing radio signals and plasma in which I know little. Any takers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH4IvQorjGA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Reminds me of a firmament above a firmament, and we are free to roam in the sphere in which we have been placed.

[Ungläubige]

"This hot plasma is about 1,000 times hotter than what Andre considers cold plasma — but even cold is a relative term. The low-energy ions have an energy that would correspond to about 500,000 degrees Celsius (about one million degrees Fahrenheit) at typical gas densities found on Earth. But because the density of the ions in space is so low, satellites and spacecraft can orbit without bursting into flames. - See more at: http://www.astrobio.net/also-in-news/co ... r9cS3.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

Here is the linked article from his friend at MIT:

http://www.ibtimes.com/invisible-plasma ... ve-1730214

The article specifically mentions "The latest study is based on data collected by NASA’s Van Allen Probes that are orbiting within the harsh environments of the Van Allen radiation belt. "

(His own source article contradicts the ex radio operator's theory that any spacecraft would melt)

As far as radio waves - AM and Shortwave radio transmissions bounce off the ionosphere - extending there range around the globe

Deep space communications frequencies between 30 MHz and 30 GHz can pass thru the various layers of the earths atmosphere.

http://www.spaceacademy.net.au/spacelink/radiospace.htm