Will America be destroyed?

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Aaronjs0005
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Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

I'm hoping to stimulate my thoughts and hope I can find people willing to engage and enlighten me. I've recently reread Joseph's supposed prophecy about the two political parties (in which it mentions Republican and Democrat) that will go to war with each other. If this prophecy is true or that part of it I would think that its talking about a war of words. Of course its written decades later and I am skeptical of it. It also mentions how other countries will invade the U.S. and divide the lands.

Where this really confuses me is when I think about prophecies I fully believe to be true and that Joseph spoke on several occasions, such as the Constitution hanging by a thread and the Elders of Israel stepping and a separate version which mentions that line, but adds in this fashion, "that the nation would be on the very brink of crumbling to the ground and this people will be the staff upon which it will lean."

This idea that we are literally overcome, destroyed, occupied, divided up and somewhat enslaved makes no sense to me. How would the Lord use the members to save something completely and utterly destroyed? The one prophecy does not say we will be destroyed and divided up, but that we will be on the brink.

Lets say both are true. It seems odd if the 2nd coming is 35 to 90 years away that the Elders step in to save it, say it in 15 years, that we are then overcome 40 years from now (25 years after Mormons lead its saving) to then have the 2nd coming just a few years or more around the corner.

Who knows, if Russia keeps advancing agenda on its borders, destabilizes much of Europe, its presence in the Middle East, undermining U.S. and democracies and sparks world war because Trump lets Putin do what he wants or it sparks somewhere else -say North Korea-and Russia has become more determined and aligns with eastern forces.


Another reason that us being completely overcome and divided doesn't make sense is how far the Lord went to seal off this land from too much immigration when he took Noah far from it and only a few generations later after the flood waters receded divided up the continents in large part to protect the promised land. Then all the preparations to raise up the U.S., the Revolutionary War, the Constitutional Convention and Constitution itself and much of previous history which laid the foundation. I get it that the Lord blesses and curses, gives and takes away, but this is the very country where God has headquartered His church and where the New Jerusalem will be built.

So with that how can this nation be divided up by other nations and still make sense with my above thoughts, including how and when the New Jerusalem would be built? I can't be believe the 2nd coming is more than 120 years and I my estimation is 35 to 90, based on all the signs. I can surely see a nuclear holocaust and the U.S. getting hit hard along with other major countries, but not a total collapse where others take complete control. I don't see that mixing with the Lord's plans, am I wrong?

braingrunt
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by braingrunt »

Perhaps getting destroyed is the first step of being saved.

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Sarah
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Sarah »

Aaronjs0005 wrote:I'm hoping to stimulate my thoughts and hope I can find people willing to engage and enlighten me. I've recently reread Joseph's supposed prophecy about the two political parties (in which it mentions Republican and Democrat) that will go to war with each other. If this prophecy is true or that part of it I would think that its talking about a war of words. Of course its written decades later and I am skeptical of it. It also mentions how other countries will invade the U.S. and divide the lands.

Where this really confuses me is when I think about prophecies I fully believe to be true and that Joseph spoke on several occasions, such as the Constitution hanging by a thread and the Elders of Israel stepping and a separate version which mentions that line, but adds in this fashion, "that the nation would be on the very brink of crumbling to the ground and this people will be the staff upon which it will lean."

This idea that we are literally overcome, destroyed, occupied, divided up and somewhat enslaved makes no sense to me. How would the Lord use the members to save something completely and utterly destroyed? The one prophecy does not say we will be destroyed and divided up, but that we will be on the brink.

Lets say both are true. It seems odd if the 2nd coming is 35 to 90 years away that the Elders step in to save it, say it in 15 years, that we are then overcome 40 years from now (25 years after Mormons lead its saving) to then have the 2nd coming just a few years or more around the corner.

Who knows, if Russia keeps advancing agenda on its borders, destabilizes much of Europe, its presence in the Middle East, undermining U.S. and democracies and sparks world war because Trump lets Putin do what he wants or it sparks somewhere else -say North Korea-and Russia has become more determined and aligns with eastern forces.


Another reason that us being completely overcome and divided doesn't make sense is how far the Lord went to seal off this land from too much immigration when he took Noah far from it and only a few generations later after the flood waters receded divided up the continents in large part to protect the promised land. Then all the preparations to raise up the U.S., the Revolutionary War, the Constitutional Convention and Constitution itself and much of previous history which laid the foundation. I get it that the Lord blesses and curses, gives and takes away, but this is the very country where God has headquartered His church and where the New Jerusalem will be built.

So with that how can this nation be divided up by other nations and still make sense with my above thoughts, including how and when the New Jerusalem would be built? I can't be believe the 2nd coming is more than 120 years and I my estimation is 35 to 90, based on all the signs. I can surely see a nuclear holocaust and the U.S. getting hit hard along with other major countries, but not a total collapse where others take complete control. I don't see that mixing with the Lord's plans, am I wrong?
Are you talking about the white horse prophecy? There are reasons to discount this, but even still, I'm pretty sure it said the other nations would come with the intent to divide up the lands for themselves. It doesn't say they are ultimately were successful.

Silver
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Silver »

I wonder what the Saints in Russia are saying about America on their Форум Свобода LDS.

It will be a great day when the country with $20 trillion in admitted national debt stops making plans to attack other countries.

2EstablishZion
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by 2EstablishZion »

What Sarah said.

Also the Lord's promises go both ways, we will be protected as long as we serve Him.
We will be swept off if we do not serve Him.
Cleon Skousen's "Cleansing of America" might be a good read for you also.

Aaronjs0005
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

Sarah wrote:
Aaronjs0005 wrote:I'm hoping to stimulate my thoughts and hope I can find people willing to engage and enlighten me. I've recently reread Joseph's supposed prophecy about the two political parties (in which it mentions Republican and Democrat) that will go to war with each other. If this prophecy is true or that part of it I would think that its talking about a war of words. Of course its written decades later and I am skeptical of it. It also mentions how other countries will invade the U.S. and divide the lands.

Where this really confuses me is when I think about prophecies I fully believe to be true and that Joseph spoke on several occasions, such as the Constitution hanging by a thread and the Elders of Israel stepping and a separate version which mentions that line, but adds in this fashion, "that the nation would be on the very brink of crumbling to the ground and this people will be the staff upon which it will lean."

This idea that we are literally overcome, destroyed, occupied, divided up and somewhat enslaved makes no sense to me. How would the Lord use the members to save something completely and utterly destroyed? The one prophecy does not say we will be destroyed and divided up, but that we will be on the brink.

Lets say both are true. It seems odd if the 2nd coming is 35 to 90 years away that the Elders step in to save it, say it in 15 years, that we are then overcome 40 years from now (25 years after Mormons lead its saving) to then have the 2nd coming just a few years or more around the corner.

Who knows, if Russia keeps advancing agenda on its borders, destabilizes much of Europe, its presence in the Middle East, undermining U.S. and democracies and sparks world war because Trump lets Putin do what he wants or it sparks somewhere else -say North Korea-and Russia has become more determined and aligns with eastern forces.


Another reason that us being completely overcome and divided doesn't make sense is how far the Lord went to seal off this land from too much immigration when he took Noah far from it and only a few generations later after the flood waters receded divided up the continents in large part to protect the promised land. Then all the preparations to raise up the U.S., the Revolutionary War, the Constitutional Convention and Constitution itself and much of previous history which laid the foundation. I get it that the Lord blesses and curses, gives and takes away, but this is the very country where God has headquartered His church and where the New Jerusalem will be built.

So with that how can this nation be divided up by other nations and still make sense with my above thoughts, including how and when the New Jerusalem would be built? I can't be believe the 2nd coming is more than 120 years and I my estimation is 35 to 90, based on all the signs. I can surely see a nuclear holocaust and the U.S. getting hit hard along with other major countries, but not a total collapse where others take complete control. I don't see that mixing with the Lord's plans, am I wrong?
Are you talking about the white horse prophecy? There are reasons to discount this, but even still, I'm pretty sure it said the other nations would come with the intent to divide up the lands for themselves. It doesn't say they are ultimately were successful.
The White House Prophecy I don't believe, but it does have truth to it. Aside from the White Horse Prophecy Joseph prophesied on numerous occasions that the Constitution would hang by a thread. He didn't say in those prophecies (again numerous) that the country would be destroyed. As I mentioned, there is a separate prophecy that mentions two political parties at war and how the US will be invaded and divided up, which doesn't align with the other prophecies and the plan for the New Jerusalem.

Aaronjs0005
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

braingrunt wrote:Perhaps getting destroyed is the first step of being saved.

Your missing part of what I'm saying. Several prophecies say w will be on the brink of being destroyed or the Constitution will hang by a thread. That doesn't harmonize with this prophecy. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .


They both are very unlikely to be true if you read my original remarks and my thoughts hen to be true on the points where I have a stronger sense, true or not, such as how close we are to the 2nd coming-35 to 90 years.

It also doesn't make sense because of the New Jerusalem. Being occupied and divided would prohibit that, I am sure. If the 2nd coming 35 to 90 years it doesn't make sense that say China, Russia and Mexico would just occupy us for 10 years.

Aaronjs0005
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

Sarah wrote:
Aaronjs0005 wrote:I'm hoping to stimulate my thoughts and hope I can find people willing to engage and enlighten me. I've recently reread Joseph's supposed prophecy about the two political parties (in which it mentions Republican and Democrat) that will go to war with each other. If this prophecy is true or that part of it I would think that its talking about a war of words. Of course its written decades later and I am skeptical of it. It also mentions how other countries will invade the U.S. and divide the lands.

Where this really confuses me is when I think about prophecies I fully believe to be true and that Joseph spoke on several occasions, such as the Constitution hanging by a thread and the Elders of Israel stepping and a separate version which mentions that line, but adds in this fashion, "that the nation would be on the very brink of crumbling to the ground and this people will be the staff upon which it will lean."

This idea that we are literally overcome, destroyed, occupied, divided up and somewhat enslaved makes no sense to me. How would the Lord use the members to save something completely and utterly destroyed? The one prophecy does not say we will be destroyed and divided up, but that we will be on the brink.

Lets say both are true. It seems odd if the 2nd coming is 35 to 90 years away that the Elders step in to save it, say it in 15 years, that we are then overcome 40 years from now (25 years after Mormons lead its saving) to then have the 2nd coming just a few years or more around the corner.

Who knows, if Russia keeps advancing agenda on its borders, destabilizes much of Europe, its presence in the Middle East, undermining U.S. and democracies and sparks world war because Trump lets Putin do what he wants or it sparks somewhere else -say North Korea-and Russia has become more determined and aligns with eastern forces.


Another reason that us being completely overcome and divided doesn't make sense is how far the Lord went to seal off this land from too much immigration when he took Noah far from it and only a few generations later after the flood waters receded divided up the continents in large part to protect the promised land. Then all the preparations to raise up the U.S., the Revolutionary War, the Constitutional Convention and Constitution itself and much of previous history which laid the foundation. I get it that the Lord blesses and curses, gives and takes away, but this is the very country where God has headquartered His church and where the New Jerusalem will be built.

So with that how can this nation be divided up by other nations and still make sense with my above thoughts, including how and when the New Jerusalem would be built? I can't be believe the 2nd coming is more than 120 years and I my estimation is 35 to 90, based on all the signs. I can surely see a nuclear holocaust and the U.S. getting hit hard along with other major countries, but not a total collapse where others take complete control. I don't see that mixing with the Lord's plans, am I wrong?
Are you talking about the white horse prophecy? There are reasons to discount this, but even still, I'm pretty sure it said the other nations would come with the intent to divide up the lands for themselves. It doesn't say they are ultimately were successful.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I'm talking about this prophecy, which as far as I know has nothing to do with the White Horse Prophecy. I don't believe that prophecy, but I do the one that repeatedly talks about the US on the verge of collapse (Constitution hangs by a thread) of the Elders of Israel step in leading the charge, which the White Horse Prophecy mixes that in.

Aaronjs0005
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

Silver wrote:I wonder what the Saints in Russia are saying about America on their Форум Свобода LDS.

It will be a great day when the country with $20 trillion in admitted national debt stops making plans to attack other countries.
The truth is many countries do horrible things and often with very evil motives, such as trying to take freedom. We just happen to be mighty, as prophesied and as blessed. I agree, the US has made very serious mistakes, but without it I could only imagine how worse things would be. How freedom would be in utter peril and who knows how bad things would like. I'm not an isolationlist and I don't think the US should be too concerned about what the Mormons in Russia think. If they understand the Scriptures they won't believe everything thats spoon fed to them by the Kremlin about the US, as imperfect as it is.

Aaronjs0005
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

2EstablishZion wrote:What Sarah said.

Also the Lord's promises go both ways, we will be protected as long as we serve Him.
We will be swept off if we do not serve Him.
Cleon Skousen's "Cleansing of America" might be a good read for you also.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I must confess, while I wholeheartedly agree with you and its something that needs to be stressed, I think there is not much of a reason to stress that here. The course the world is on is irreversible and other countries are utterly decadent. So we are loosing protection more and more and we will get hit and hit hard. The question is how hard will we get hit.

I'd also argue that our getting hit will not so near as much be our mistakes in foreign policy, but the wickedness of our culture, which I say because some will try to argue its all our foreign policy. The Lord would protect this nation if it was righteous, played a force for good in the world, fought evil and still made some mistakes. It is our wickedness that will bring us down, not foreign policy mistakes. Thats my opinion, in part based on everything we know about the promised land and its destiny. I would add I think lots of countries get hit. I think it will be a nuclear holocaust.
Last edited by Aaronjs0005 on December 19th, 2016, 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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h_p
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by h_p »

Whether the US is destroyed is irrelevant to me, as long as Zion is established. And that's probably what will be required before we put down our idols and repent.

Aaronjs0005
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

h_p wrote:Whether the US is destroyed is irrelevant to me, as long as Zion is established. And that's probably what will be required before we put down our idols and repent.
You may be right. I am simply trying to look at the prophecies. The Constitution hanging by a thread and the country on the verge of crumbling is repeated prophecy by Joseph Smith and many church presidents.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; This one however is not and on top of that it doesn't seem to harmonize with the other prophecies and things we know about America's destiny. America being destroyed is one thing, but invaded, divided and occupied another. It doesn't mix with the New Jerusalem.

The church will never be overthrown again. I cannot see how an all out invasion and occupation would advance the New Jerusalem, especially if 2nd coming is 35 to 90 years and everything suggests that is the case.

Silver
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Silver »

Aaronjs0005 wrote:
Silver wrote:I wonder what the Saints in Russia are saying about America on their Форум Свобода LDS.

It will be a great day when the country with $20 trillion in admitted national debt stops making plans to attack other countries.
The truth is many countries do horrible things and often with very evil motives, such as trying to take freedom. We just happen to be mighty, as prophesied and as blessed. I agree, the US has made very serious mistakes, but without it I could only imagine how worse things would be. How freedom would be in utter peril and who knows how bad things would like. I'm not an isolationlist and I don't think the US should be too concerned about what the Mormons in Russia think. If they understand the Scriptures they won't believe everything thats spoon fed to them by the Kremlin about the US, as imperfect as it is.
I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with my statement about America needing to stop sending troops into battle in foreign locations. It seems as if you disagree. Want to clear that up?

I believe I have an opposite opinion from yours when considering America for the last 100 years. How much better the world would have been if the US government and its bankers had not financed the Bolshevik Revolution and the 3rd Reich and the communist takeover of China. Those three regimes led to the deaths of well over 100 million people in the last century. Those deaths were paid for by Americans who voted D or voted R never bothering to investigate the secret combinations that rule over us.

You say you're not an isolationist. Do you consider yourself an interventionist?

Americans have also been spoon-fed propaganda for 100 years. Witness the willing participation in foreign wars of aggression. How else could the Constitution hang by a thread?

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h_p
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by h_p »

When the New Jerusalem is ready to be built, no telestial power will be able to stop it, no matter what condition the US is in. An invasion and occupation would act as a cleansing and tribulation, and so it would indeed move us toward Zion.

I recommend studying Isaiah, it's the most detailed account of the last days that we have, as far as I know, with the major political powers of the world represented. Start with this book: The End from the Beginning

lundbaek
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by lundbaek »

Participation in foreign wars of aggression is not the only violation of the U.S. Constitution. Other violations include foreign aid, corporate bailouts, welfare, FedGov involvement in public education, the NDAA, the Patriot Act, creation and distribution of money by the Federal Reserve, have all contributed to the severing of threads.

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kittycat51
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by kittycat51 »

Concerning "The White Horse Prophecy" Elder Joseph Fielding Smith (before he was a prophet) stated in General Conference in 1918
"I have discovered that people have copies of a purported vision by the Prophet Joseph Smith given in Nauvoo, and some people are circulating this supposed vision, or revelation, or conversation which the prophet is reported to have held with a number of individuals in the city of Nauvoo. I want to say to you, my brethren and sisters, that if you understand the Church articles and covenants, if you will read the scriptures and become familiar with those things which are recorded in the revelations from the Lord, it will not be necessary for you to ask any questions in regard to the authenticity or otherwise of any purported revelation, vision, or manifestation that proceeds out of darkness, concocted in some corner, surreptitiously presented, and not coming through the proper channels of the Church. Let me add that when a revelation comes for the guidance of this people, you may be sure that it will not be presented in some mysterious manner contrary to the order of the Church. It will go forth in such form that the people will understand that it comes from those who are in authority, for it will be sent either to the presidents of stakes and the bishops of the wards over the signatures of the presiding authorities, Or it will be published in some of the regular papers or magazines under the control and direction of the Church or it will be presented before such a gathering as this, at a general conference. It will not spring up in some distant part of the Church and be in the hands of some obscure individual without authority, and thus be circulated among the Latter-day Saints. Now, you may remember this."

Elder Joseph Fielding Smith's father and Prophet at the time, President Joseph F. Smith, followed immediately after his son's speech and said:
"The ridiculous story about the "red horse," and "the black horse," and "the white horse," and a lot of trash that has been circulated about and printed and sent around as a great revelation given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, is a matter that was gotten up, I understand, some ten years after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by two of our brethren who put together some broken sentences from the Prophet that they may have heard from time to time, and formulated this so-called revelation out of it, and it was never spoken by the prophet in the manner in which they have put it forth. It is simply false; that is all there is to it."

Elder Bruce R McConkie also comments on the “prophecy” in his book Mormon Doctrine: "From time to time, accounts of various supposed visions, revelations, and prophecies are spread forth by and among the Latter-day Saints, who should know better than to believe or spread such false information. One of these false and deceptive documents that has cropped up again and again for over a century is the so-called White Horse Prophecy. This supposed prophecy purports to be a long and detailed account by the Prophet Joseph Smith concerning the wars, turmoils, and difficulties which should exist in the last days."

As far as the 35-90 years before the second coming...I highly beg to differ. WAY closer than that. There are still a few things that need to happen but somethings can happen in a blink of an eye and several at a time. LESS than 15 years.

paulrobots
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by paulrobots »

kittycat51 wrote:
As far as the 35-90 years before the second coming...I highly beg to differ. WAY closer than that. There are still a few things that need to happen but somethings can happen in a blink of an eye and several at a time. LESS than 15 years.
Agree with this, the constitution is already hanging by a thread. We are already more wicked than the nephites, and sodom and gomorrah.

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SouEu
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by SouEu »

My guess is that the second coming is 15-20 years away.

I think there will be a lot of tribulation, as well as missionary work between now and then. I don't subscribe to the 7-year tribulation hypothesis. I think it will be more drawn out than that and there will be great periods of missionary work that occurs between waves of destruction.

lundbaek
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by lundbaek »

To whatever extent America will be destroyed, I believe Mormons could have prevented it from happening if they had unitedly responded positively to the clear warnings and instructions from prophets and apostles to learn, uphold and abide by the principles of the US Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers (as Presidents McKay and Benson expressed it) and also heeded the warnings of the secret combinations and striven to oppose them. I believe the Lord would have more than matched our efforts.

Aaronjs0005
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

kittycat51 wrote:Concerning "The White Horse Prophecy" Elder Joseph Fielding Smith (before he was a prophet) stated in General Conference in 1918
"I have discovered that people have copies of a purported vision by the Prophet Joseph Smith given in Nauvoo, and some people are circulating this supposed vision, or revelation, or conversation which the prophet is reported to have held with a number of individuals in the city of Nauvoo. I want to say to you, my brethren and sisters, that if you understand the Church articles and covenants, if you will read the scriptures and become familiar with those things which are recorded in the revelations from the Lord, it will not be necessary for you to ask any questions in regard to the authenticity or otherwise of any purported revelation, vision, or manifestation that proceeds out of darkness, concocted in some corner, surreptitiously presented, and not coming through the proper channels of the Church. Let me add that when a revelation comes for the guidance of this people, you may be sure that it will not be presented in some mysterious manner contrary to the order of the Church. It will go forth in such form that the people will understand that it comes from those who are in authority, for it will be sent either to the presidents of stakes and the bishops of the wards over the signatures of the presiding authorities, Or it will be published in some of the regular papers or magazines under the control and direction of the Church or it will be presented before such a gathering as this, at a general conference. It will not spring up in some distant part of the Church and be in the hands of some obscure individual without authority, and thus be circulated among the Latter-day Saints. Now, you may remember this."

Elder Joseph Fielding Smith's father and Prophet at the time, President Joseph F. Smith, followed immediately after his son's speech and said:
"The ridiculous story about the "red horse," and "the black horse," and "the white horse," and a lot of trash that has been circulated about and printed and sent around as a great revelation given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, is a matter that was gotten up, I understand, some ten years after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by two of our brethren who put together some broken sentences from the Prophet that they may have heard from time to time, and formulated this so-called revelation out of it, and it was never spoken by the prophet in the manner in which they have put it forth. It is simply false; that is all there is to it."

Elder Bruce R McConkie also comments on the “prophecy” in his book Mormon Doctrine: "From time to time, accounts of various supposed visions, revelations, and prophecies are spread forth by and among the Latter-day Saints, who should know better than to believe or spread such false information. One of these false and deceptive documents that has cropped up again and again for over a century is the so-called White Horse Prophecy. This supposed prophecy purports to be a long and detailed account by the Prophet Joseph Smith concerning the wars, turmoils, and difficulties which should exist in the last days."

As far as the 35-90 years before the second coming...I highly beg to differ. WAY closer than that. There are still a few things that need to happen but somethings can happen in a blink of an eye and several at a time. LESS than 15 years.

I hope you will guys will carry on this conversation with me. I have looked into the White Horse Prophecy, read the words from the Smith's you posted and its clear most of the prophecy is true. However, on several occasions Joseph and others did state that the country would be on the brink and the Mormons would lead the charge to save it. So that we know is true.

I strongly beg to differ on the 15 years and its not because I don't believe we are very close to being ripe enough, its simply because there is way too much to be done that cannot and will not happen in that time. A temple must be built in Jerusalem. A leader I think name David from the loins of David. The New Jerusalem must be built and the land is occupied by too many people.

The US government must be on the verge of collapse and the Mormons come in and save it. This all cannot happen in 15 years. I could see US government on verge of collapse and Mormons saving it, but not all the other.

Back to this prophecy I posted a link to in responding to others above. Its not the White Horse Prophecy which I've debunked. Its a prophecy about two political parties, a major one to spring up, the US to be invaded and occupied, etc. Does anyone believe that prophecy could make sense with the thoughts in mind from my original comment/post?

Aaronjs0005
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

SouEu wrote:My guess is that the second coming is 15-20 years away.

I think there will be a lot of tribulation, as well as missionary work between now and then. I don't subscribe to the 7-year tribulation hypothesis. I think it will be more drawn out than that and there will be great periods of missionary work that occurs between waves of destruction.

Isn't the 7 year tribulation concrete/Biblical? Or you think it was speaking loosely?

Aaronjs0005
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

lundbaek wrote:To whatever extent America will be destroyed, I believe Mormons could have prevented it from happening if they had unitedly responded positively to the clear warnings and instructions from prophets and apostles to learn, uphold and abide by the principles of the US Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers (as Presidents McKay and Benson expressed it) and also heeded the warnings of the secret combinations and striven to oppose them. I believe the Lord would have more than matched our efforts.
My opinion is the Joseph's prophecy about the Constitution hanging was far more drastic than what many of us have thought. Like many cities nuked. I don't believe it was solely referring to the congress, presidential powers, powers of the federal gov and the SP Court shifting far left. There has always been violations of that document. There always will be, even after it is saved!!! So I'm don't think the Lord has in mind a perfect adherence to it when He swoops priesthood leaders to save it. It's regarding its utter destruction.

Aaronjs0005
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Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

lundbaek wrote:To whatever extent America will be destroyed, I believe Mormons could have prevented it from happening if they had unitedly responded positively to the clear warnings and instructions from prophets and apostles to learn, uphold and abide by the principles of the US Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers (as Presidents McKay and Benson expressed it) and also heeded the warnings of the secret combinations and striven to oppose them. I believe the Lord would have more than matched our efforts.
Your talking as if they won't? Am I wrong? I believe that is a prophecy that will be fulfilled. It wasn't conditional based on how righteous all the members were. The Lord is perfectly capable of raising up the right men for it. I have my own very sharp criticisms of LDS people, but I believe often we are way too unrealistic. We expect near perfection according to our ideas, interpretations, understanding, etc. You could get someone who would agree you or me on more things and yet I guarantee there is souls for whatever reasons do not have the same fervor or perspective and yet they are more righteous in the sight of the Lord. Mitt Romney comes to mind. I hear some members talk about how Mitt isn't some Ron Paul Constitutionalist and I believe that is an utter farce.

First, the spirit of the Constitution was made for for a moral people. Mitt may not preach it the exact same way and interpret it the exact same way. But when Ron Paul seems so utterly obsessed with rights of every little kind my warning lights go off. It speaks of corruption to me. Self centeredness. That is contrary in some respects I'm not articulating very well here to the constitution. An obsession with rights will actually hep lead to its downfall and in that sense and others Mitt, though imperfect, is a worthy guy and if Joseph meant it would be on the brink than most have interpreted, I don't see any reason why someone like Romney could not help save it. You don't have to talk like Ron Paul, or the more patriotic Marco Rubio. That may not even be necessary and actually the more mainstream one is the better at being viable.

Aaronjs0005
captain of 50
Posts: 56

Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by Aaronjs0005 »

paulrobots wrote:
kittycat51 wrote:
As far as the 35-90 years before the second coming...I highly beg to differ. WAY closer than that. There are still a few things that need to happen but somethings can happen in a blink of an eye and several at a time. LESS than 15 years.
Agree with this, the constitution is already hanging by a thread. We are already more wicked than the nephites, and sodom and gomorrah.
And if world warIII breaks out and Russia nukes us hard and clings with China, etc, we will be FAR more hanging by a thread. I actually believe Joseph was speaking in much more drastic terms.

simpleton
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3074

Re: Will America be destroyed?

Post by simpleton »

In reading this thread and others and our smug ideas that all is well in zion ( by some not all) and that the destructions are going to happen to the wicked ( and of course the wicked are "them" not us in the church in our minds) go and read the book of Mormon again very carefully and you will see the the worst of the wicked they prophecy about are His people , God's people, the ones that think all us well in Zion, the ones in Zion, the ones that reject the fulness of the everlasting gospel , sorry to say but it is us that they are talking about in the prophecies and predictions of the future about this country and the Gentiles that encumber it...
If Christ was to return now in His glory it would be to our destruction ... we are in no way prepared to receive Him (in my humble opinion) we do not see eye to eye we do not esteem our "brother" as ourselves we love to talk the talk but then walk the opposite , we call each other brother on Sunday then it's business as usual the rest of the week , every man for himself... sink or swim .. ( Of course I am talking collectively speaking not individually) we are totally immersed in the Babylonian spirit and way of life , money money money and the things it can buy are what is close to our hearts , which causes speculation and self aggrandizement... the result being spiritual and financial bondage...

Apply the scriptures to us not to "them" and you will see a different picture .....

This interesting statement or vision or dream comes to mind as somebody made the statement earlier that the church has progressed much since the beginning... my opinion is yes in numbers but not in spirituality...

Here is a part of elder Alma Ericksons vision ,1930's, and of course it's not accepted scripture or revelation, or standard works or by no means from the any of the 15 , but it still was intriguing...

"I see our church represented by a high building, and we are in the top thereof, or the most recently constructed portion, which is very shaky; and I perceive that this last constructed portion is going to fall, and we must get down to the lower part of this great structure, which rests solidly upon its foundations. And while I am thus viewing it, the top, or last part built, does crash with a loud and fearful crash."

As far as America being destroyed and or the constitution being destroyed or the government being destroyed , according to Joseph Smith and various other early day leaders of the church, they exclaimed very clear that if the government does not redress the lds people for the property they stole , the lives that they took, the rapes they committed , and for all the atrocities that they committed against them that the government would self destruct, that factions and "mobs to their hearts content" would be the destruction of the United States government.
Well as far as I can see there has been absolutely no redress , no returning of the property that was stolen from the lds under musket and bayonet in Missouri... no redress for the murders and pillaging and raping , for that matter it was legal to kill "mormons" in the state of Missouri until a few years ago under governor Boggs extermination order .....

But again "judgements begin on my house first"

D&C 112

Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face.

Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.


But I do believe that the constitution will be saved by this people or rather a remnant of this people that repent and return and are willing to truly take upon them the name of Christ and are truly willing to esteem their brothers as themselves , ,, and that when that time arrives they will be led by one having divine power from on high to be able to rebuke the powers that be that are hell bent on the destruction of that divine instrument...

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