The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13110
Location: England

The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by Robin Hood »

I have had an interest in this character for a number of years and wondered if you good folks had any thoughts as to his identity.

Leading contenders appear to be:

A returning Adam
James Strang
Brigham Young
Joseph Smith III
A returning Joseph Smith
A future prophet

Three of these are future events, three have already happened.
Of the historical ones I have no issue dismissing James Strang. However, proponents of both Brigham Young and Joseph Smith III have a case in my view.
Thoughts?

dafty
captain of 100
Posts: 428

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by dafty »

Robin Hood wrote:I have had an interest in this character for a number of years and wondered if you good folks had any thoughts as to his identity.

Leading contenders appear to be:

A returning Adam
James Strang
Brigham Young
Joseph Smith III
A returning Joseph Smith
A future prophet

Three of these are future events, three have already happened.
Of the historical ones I have no issue dismissing James Strang. However, proponents of both Brigham Young and Joseph Smith III have a case in my view.
Thoughts?
Michael

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by inho »

Christ himself.

There is a good article on the One Mighty and Strong:
"To Set in Order the House of God": The Search for Elusive "One Mighty and Strong" by Bill Shephard, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, 39(3): 18–45 (Fall 2006).

There are some who have identified OMS to be Jesus Christ (see pages 27-28). I wouldn't dismiss that idea. The way he is described sounds pretty messianic: "one mighty and strong, holding the sceptre of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth" (D&C 85:7).

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by inho »

Ogden Kraut thought it would be resurrected Joseph Smith. In his book, he also listed a number of people who have claimed to be the one mighty and strong.

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13110
Location: England

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by Robin Hood »

inho wrote:Christ himself.

There is a good article on the One Mighty and Strong:
"To Set in Order the House of God": The Search for Elusive "One Mighty and Strong" by Bill Shephard, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, 39(3): 18–45 (Fall 2006).

There are some who have identified OMS to be Jesus Christ (see pages 27-28). I wouldn't dismiss that idea. The way he is described sounds pretty messianic: "one mighty and strong, holding the sceptre of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth" (D&C 85:7).
In my view verse 8 pretty much precludes Christ.
This is someone who is going to appoint the Saints their lots in Zion.
I'm pretty sure that is a role Christ delegates.

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by inho »

Robin Hood wrote: In my view verse 8 pretty much precludes Christ.
This is someone who is going to appoint the Saints their lots in Zion.
I'm pretty sure that is a role Christ delegates.
I see. To be honest, the way Garrett and Robinson deals with that in their commentary on D&C is a bit of unsatisfying, see the last paragraph:
7. One mighty and strong. See Commentary on Doctrine and Covenants 36:1. It should be noted that in the Old Testament "the mighty One of Israel" is distinctly and exclusively Jehovah, or the premortal Jesus Christ (Isaiah 1:24; see also 1 Nephi 22:12; D&C 36:1). Psalm 24:8 uses the title "strong and mighty" for Jehovah (see also Psalm 89:6, 8), while Doctrine and Covenants 65:1 refers to Christ as "mighty and powerful." Jehovah, or Christ, is called "the mighty God of Jacob" (Genesis 49:24), "the mighty God" (Isaiah 9:6; 10:21; 28:2–17), "a mighty and strong one" (Isaiah 28:2), "mighty in strength" (Job 9:4), and one who "goes forth in mighty power" (Mosiah 13:34). Dozens of additional examples might be cited to support the identification of the archetypical "one mighty and strong" as the Lord Jesus Christ, for there is none mightier or stronger than he. Moreover, it is Jesus, the millennial king, who will "hold the scepter" (v. 7; see also D&C 106:6; Numbers 24:17; Hebrews 1:8), whose "mouth utters eternal words" (D&C 85:7; see also Psalm 78:2; Matthew 13:35), and who is described as "a fountain" in scripture (v. 7; see also Jeremiah 2:13; 17:13; Zechariah 13:1; Ether 8:26).

More telling, however, is the identification of "the one mighty and strong" here in Doctrine and Covenants 85 as Jesus Christ. A comparison of verses 7–9 and their parallels elsewhere shows that the coming of "one mighty and strong" is described in section 85 in precisely the same language used elsewhere to describe the coming of Christ (see also Joseph Smith–Matthew 1:53–54).

The idea proposed by some that the "one mighty and strong" is some intermediary character who will arrive prior to the second coming of the Savior in order to straighten out the Church is incorrect. This is a distortion that persists only because it allows dissidents to envision the Church as presently in need of correction—and to declare themselves or someone else as the "one mighty and strong" called to steady the ark. But verse 8 makes it clear that the ark needs no one to steady it, just as it reveals the fate of any who may try. No one may steady this ark until the coming of Jesus Christ, the One Mighty and Strong, who will settle all accounts, right every wrong, and reward all his faithful Saints at his glorious coming. As a First Presidency message on this topic issued in 1905 and reprinted in 1907 stated very firmly: "Certainly this prophecy does not allude in any way to any President of the Church, past, present, or to come." Thus, it would be impossible to interpret the coming of "one mighty and strong" as a change in LDS Church leadership prior to the second coming of Christ.

Still, though the Savior himself is the archetypical "one mighty and strong," when the Savior does come, he will establish an administration over his kingdom, and in that day whoever he appoints to act with his authority will also, by extension, be "mighty and strong." In this sense—as an extension of Christ himself—a millennial presiding bishop might also be referred to as "one mighty and strong."

User avatar
rewcox
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5873

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by rewcox »

DONALD TRUMP.

User avatar
h_p
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2811

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by h_p »

We were just discussing this figure last night during our scripture study. We read 2 Nephi 3:23-24, and I hadn't realized Lehi had prophesied about him here. The footnotes say that verse 24 is about Joseph Smith, but reading it in the context of the rest of the chapter, and in light of Isaiah, it did not seem like it could be him, but would be a prophet who comes later.
Wherefore, because of this covenant thou art blessed; for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book.

And there shall rise up one mighty among them, who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren.
This verse indicates that he will be a descendant of Lehi, through his son Joseph.

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by inho »

h_p wrote: This verse indicates that he will be a descendant of Lehi, through his son Joseph.
Has anyone read Val Brinkerhoff's recent book The Remnant Awakens? From what I have read about that book, he seems to argue in it that Lamanites have an important role in the end times.

dafty
captain of 100
Posts: 428

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by dafty »

h_p wrote:We were just discussing this figure last night during our scripture study. We read 2 Nephi 3:23-24, and I hadn't realized Lehi had prophesied about him here. The footnotes say that verse 24 is about Joseph Smith, but reading it in the context of the rest of the chapter, and in light of Isaiah, it did not seem like it could be him, but would be a prophet who comes later.
Wherefore, because of this covenant thou art blessed; for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book.

And there shall rise up one mighty among them, who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren.
This verse indicates that he will be a descendant of Lehi, through his son Joseph.
Is he one and the same as mighty and strong of D&C85:7? MIghty and Strong of D&C brings things back to order in the Kingdom of God and then dies whilst he steadies the ark(builds temple?).Lehi's descendant restores(scriptures? etc). :-?

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13110
Location: England

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by Robin Hood »

h_p wrote:We were just discussing this figure last night during our scripture study. We read 2 Nephi 3:23-24, and I hadn't realized Lehi had prophesied about him here. The footnotes say that verse 24 is about Joseph Smith, but reading it in the context of the rest of the chapter, and in light of Isaiah, it did not seem like it could be him, but would be a prophet who comes later.
Wherefore, because of this covenant thou art blessed; for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book.

And there shall rise up one mighty among them, who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren.
This verse indicates that he will be a descendant of Lehi, through his son Joseph.
Not the same guy in my view.
I think Nephi was talking about Mormon.

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13110
Location: England

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by Robin Hood »

Is verse 8 the key to this?
It seems that the one mighty and strong follows on from "... that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall be the shaft of death...."
Does Joseph Smith, in ordering, or at least being complicit in, the destruction of the Nauvoo expositor printing press qualify as the man who attempted to steady the Ark, ie. protect the church in an unauthorised way?
If so, we have two historical candidates for the role of the one mighty and strong; Brigham Young and Joseph Smith III.

Brigham Young
I would say he would qualify as mighty and strong. He exercised strong leadership in a time of crisis caused by the untimely death of Joseph. He organized the westward trek, a logistically mammoth task, and appointed lots to the Saints when they arrived in the Valley. The sceptre of power could be the keys of the kingdom and presidency of the High Priesthood etc.
It can be made to fit.

Joseph Smith III
He was mighty and strong in a different way. He was certainly successful in gathering together the scattered prairie saints. He also established the Reorganisation as a viable rival to the Utah church, gathered converts in the US and Europe, and returned to Independence, Missouri (the Centre Place or Zion) in apparent fulfillment of scripture. One of the early figures in the fledgling Reorganisation wrote a revelation in 1851 (9 years before JSIII joined the RLDS) which reads in part "and in mine own due time will I call upon the seed of Joseph Smith, and will bring one forth, and he shall be mighty and strong, and he shall preside over the high priesthood of my church; and then shall the quorums assemble, and the pure in heart shall gather, and Zion shall be re-inhabited."
This too can be made to fit.

It's interesting isn't it!

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by inho »

Robin Hood,

Why don't you even mention the explanation given by the First Presidency in 1905 (and reprinted in Improvement Era in October 1907)?

dafty
captain of 100
Posts: 428

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by dafty »

Robin Hood wrote:Is verse 8 the key to this?
It seems that the one mighty and strong follows on from "... that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall be the shaft of death...."
Does Joseph Smith, in ordering, or at least being complicit in, the destruction of the Nauvoo expositor printing press qualify as the man who attempted to steady the Ark, ie. protect the church in an unauthorised way?
If so, we have two historical candidates for the role of the one mighty and strong; Brigham Young and Joseph Smith III.

Brigham Young
I would say he would qualify as mighty and strong. He exercised strong leadership in a time of crisis caused by the untimely death of Joseph. He organized the westward trek, a logistically mammoth task, and appointed lots to the Saints when they arrived in the Valley. The sceptre of power could be the keys of the kingdom and presidency of the High Priesthood etc.
It can be made to fit.

Joseph Smith III
He was mighty and strong in a different way. He was certainly successful in gathering together the scattered prairie saints. He also established the Reorganisation as a viable rival to the Utah church, gathered converts in the US and Europe, and returned to Independence, Missouri (the Centre Place or Zion) in apparent fulfillment of scripture. One of the early figures in the fledgling Reorganisation wrote a revelation in 1851 (9 years before JSIII joined the RLDS) which reads in part "and in mine own due time will I call upon the seed of Joseph Smith, and will bring one forth, and he shall be mighty and strong, and he shall preside over the high priesthood of my church; and then shall the quorums assemble, and the pure in heart shall gather, and Zion shall be re-inhabited."
This too can be made to fit.

It's interesting isn't it!
I liked Brianlj's interpretation of this scripture as a prophecy. Instead of splitting the verse into 2 he treated it as 1. He proposed that to steady the ark does not necessarily carry a negative meaning as in UZZIAH's story, but it means to give an ark home/steady it in the temple. ..suffice to say he went on to show that one mighty and strong may be 1 of the 2 witnesses and he builds home/steadies the ark in Jerusalem's temple yet to be built up. either way its all very interesting :)

dafty
captain of 100
Posts: 428

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by dafty »

...a bit similar to the prophecy made by our Lord and Saviour as recorded in john 2:…18On account of this, the Jews demanded, “What sign can You show us to prove Your authority to do these things?” 19Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.” 20“This temple took forty-six years to build,” the Jews replied, “and You are going to raise it up in three days?”…they all misunderstood what He was actually saying. Its possible JS did the same x

sushi_chef
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3693
Location: tokyo, jpn

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by sushi_chef »

"PATRIARCHAL BLESSING GIVEN BY JOSEPH SMITH, SR., PATRIARCH OF THE CHURCH OF THE LATTER DAY SAINTS, TO HIS SON, JOSEPH SMITH, JR., ON 9 DECEMBER 1834.

Joseph Smith, junior was born in Sharon, Windsor County, Vermont, December 23, 1805.

Joseph, my son, I lay my hands upon thy head in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to confirm upon thee a father's blessing. The Lord thy God has called thee by name out of the heavens: thou hast heard his voice from on high from time to time, even in thy youth. The hand of the angel of his presence has been extended toward thee by which thou hast been lifted up and sustained; yea, the Lord has delivered thee from the hands of thine enemies and thou hast been made to rejoice in his salvation: thou hast sought to know his ways, and from thy childhood thou hast meditated much upon the great things of his law. Thou hast suffered much in thy youth, and the poverty and afflictions of thy father's family have been a grief to thy soul. Thou hast desired to see them delivered from bondage, for thou hast loved them with a perfect love. Thou hast stood by thy father, and like Shem, would have covered his nakedness, rather than see him exposed to shame: when the daughters of the Gentiles laughed, thy heart has been moved with a just anger to avenge thy kindred. Thou hast been an obedient son: the commands of thy father and the reproofs of thy mother, thou hast respected and obeyed - for all these things the Lord my God will bless thee. Thou hast been called, even in thy youth to the great work of the Lord: to do a work in this generation which no man would do as thyself, in all things according to the will of the Lord. A marvelous work and a wonder has the Lord wrought by thy hand, even that which shall prepare the way for the remnants of his people to come in among the Gentiles, with their fulness, as the tribes of Israel are restored.

I bless thee with the blessings of thy fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and even the blessings of thy father Joseph, the son of Jacob. Behold, he looked after his posterity in the last days, when they should be scattered and driven by the Gentiles, and wept before the Lord: he sought diligently to know from whence the son should come who should bring forth the word of the Lord, by which they might be enlightened, and brought back to the true fold, and his eyes beheld thee, my son: his heart rejoiced and his soul was satisfied, and he said, As my blessings are to extend to the utmost bounds of the everlasting hills, as my father's blessing prevailed above the blessings of his progentor, and as my branches are to run over the wall, and my seed are to inherit the choice land whereon the Zion of God shall stand in the last days, from among my seed, scattered with the Gentiles, shall a choice Seer arise whose bowles shall be as a fountain of truth, whose loins shall be girded with the girdle of righteousness, whose hands shall be lifted with acceptance before the God of Jacob to turn away his anger from his annointed, whose heart shall meditate great wisdom, whose intelligence shall circumscribe and comprehend the deep things of God, and whose mouth shall utter the law of the just: His feet shall stand upon the neck of his enemies, and he shall walk upon the ashes of those who seek his destruction: with wine and oil shall he be sustained, and he shall feed upon the heritage of Jacob his father: the just shall desire his society, and the upright in heart shall be his companions: No weapon formed against him shall prosper, and though the wicked mar him for a little season, he shall be like one rising up in the heat of wine - he shall roar in his strength, and the Lord shall put to flight his persecutors: he shall be blessed like the fruitful olive, and his memory shall be as sweet as the choice cluster of the first ripe grapes. Like a shief fully ripe, gathered into the garner, so shall he stand before the Lord, having produced a hundred fold. Thus spake my father Joseph. Therefore, my son, I know for a surety that those things will be fulfilled, and I confirm upon thee all these blessings.

Thou shalt like to do the work which the Lord shall command thee: Thou shalt hold the Keys of this ministry, even the presidency of this church, both in time and in eternity. Thy heart shall be enlarged, and thou shalt be able to fill up the measure of thy days according to the will of the Lord. Thou shalt speak the word of the Lord and the earth shall tremble; the mountains shall move and the rivers shall turn out of their course. Thou shalt escape the edge of the sword, and put to flight the armies of the wicked. At thy word the lame shall walk, the deaf shall hear and the blind shall see. Thou shalt be gathered to Zion and in the goodly land thou shalt enjoy thine inheritance; thy children and thy children's children to the latest generation; for thy name and the names of thy posterity shall be recorded in the book of the Lord, even in the book of blessings and genealogies, for their joy and benefit forever. And now, my son, what more shall I say? Thou art as a fruitful olive and a choice vine: thou shalt be laden with precious fruit. Thousands and tens of thousands shall come to a knowledge of the truth through thy ministry, and thou shalt rejoice with them in the Celestial Kingdom:

Thou shalt stand upon the earth when it shall reel to and fro as a drunken man, and be removed out of its place: thou shalt stand when the mighty judgments go forth to the destruction of the wicked: thou shalt stand on Mount Zion when the tribes of Jacob come shouting from the north, and with thy brethren, the sons of Ephraim, crown them in the name of Jesus Christ: Thou shalt see thy Redeemer come in the clouds of heaven, and with the just receive the hallowed throng with shouts of hallalujahs, praise the Lord. Amen

(Joseph Smith, Sr., Patriarchal Blessing Book no. 1, Historical Department, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah.)
" https://user.xmission.com/~research/about/patb1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UT ... 20smith%22" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40694&p=664800&hil ... in#p664800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"when it shall reel to and fro as a drunken man" ----->>> return of north
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41010&hilit=brothe%2A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:-B

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13110
Location: England

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by Robin Hood »

inho wrote:Robin Hood,

Why don't you even mention the explanation given by the First Presidency in 1905 (and reprinted in Improvement Era in October 1907)?
Because it isn't credible in my view.

Ezra
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by Ezra »

rewcox wrote:DONALD TRUMP.

Wouldn't that be flabby and bad hair?

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by inho »

Robin Hood wrote: Because it isn't credible in my view.
Not even the second possible explanation (i.e. a future bishop of the church)?


I've always wondered why the second possibility was omitted when quoted in the D&C Institute manual.

dafty
captain of 100
Posts: 428

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by dafty »

sushi_chef wrote:"PATRIARCHAL BLESSING GIVEN BY JOSEPH SMITH, SR., PATRIARCH OF THE CHURCH OF THE LATTER DAY SAINTS, TO HIS SON, JOSEPH SMITH, JR., ON 9 DECEMBER 1834.

Joseph Smith, junior was born in Sharon, Windsor County, Vermont, December 23, 1805.

Joseph, my son, I lay my hands upon thy head in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to confirm upon thee a father's blessing. The Lord thy God has called thee by name out of the heavens: thou hast heard his voice from on high from time to time, even in thy youth. The hand of the angel of his presence has been extended toward thee by which thou hast been lifted up and sustained; yea, the Lord has delivered thee from the hands of thine enemies and thou hast been made to rejoice in his salvation: thou hast sought to know his ways, and from thy childhood thou hast meditated much upon the great things of his law. Thou hast suffered much in thy youth, and the poverty and afflictions of thy father's family have been a grief to thy soul. Thou hast desired to see them delivered from bondage, for thou hast loved them with a perfect love. Thou hast stood by thy father, and like Shem, would have covered his nakedness, rather than see him exposed to shame: when the daughters of the Gentiles laughed, thy heart has been moved with a just anger to avenge thy kindred. Thou hast been an obedient son: the commands of thy father and the reproofs of thy mother, thou hast respected and obeyed - for all these things the Lord my God will bless thee. Thou hast been called, even in thy youth to the great work of the Lord: to do a work in this generation which no man would do as thyself, in all things according to the will of the Lord. A marvelous work and a wonder has the Lord wrought by thy hand, even that which shall prepare the way for the remnants of his people to come in among the Gentiles, with their fulness, as the tribes of Israel are restored.

I bless thee with the blessings of thy fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and even the blessings of thy father Joseph, the son of Jacob. Behold, he looked after his posterity in the last days, when they should be scattered and driven by the Gentiles, and wept before the Lord: he sought diligently to know from whence the son should come who should bring forth the word of the Lord, by which they might be enlightened, and brought back to the true fold, and his eyes beheld thee, my son: his heart rejoiced and his soul was satisfied, and he said, As my blessings are to extend to the utmost bounds of the everlasting hills, as my father's blessing prevailed above the blessings of his progentor, and as my branches are to run over the wall, and my seed are to inherit the choice land whereon the Zion of God shall stand in the last days, from among my seed, scattered with the Gentiles, shall a choice Seer arise whose bowles shall be as a fountain of truth, whose loins shall be girded with the girdle of righteousness, whose hands shall be lifted with acceptance before the God of Jacob to turn away his anger from his annointed, whose heart shall meditate great wisdom, whose intelligence shall circumscribe and comprehend the deep things of God, and whose mouth shall utter the law of the just: His feet shall stand upon the neck of his enemies, and he shall walk upon the ashes of those who seek his destruction: with wine and oil shall he be sustained, and he shall feed upon the heritage of Jacob his father: the just shall desire his society, and the upright in heart shall be his companions: No weapon formed against him shall prosper, and though the wicked mar him for a little season, he shall be like one rising up in the heat of wine - he shall roar in his strength, and the Lord shall put to flight his persecutors: he shall be blessed like the fruitful olive, and his memory shall be as sweet as the choice cluster of the first ripe grapes. Like a shief fully ripe, gathered into the garner, so shall he stand before the Lord, having produced a hundred fold. Thus spake my father Joseph. Therefore, my son, I know for a surety that those things will be fulfilled, and I confirm upon thee all these blessings.

Thou shalt like to do the work which the Lord shall command thee: Thou shalt hold the Keys of this ministry, even the presidency of this church, both in time and in eternity. Thy heart shall be enlarged, and thou shalt be able to fill up the measure of thy days according to the will of the Lord. Thou shalt speak the word of the Lord and the earth shall tremble; the mountains shall move and the rivers shall turn out of their course. Thou shalt escape the edge of the sword, and put to flight the armies of the wicked. At thy word the lame shall walk, the deaf shall hear and the blind shall see. Thou shalt be gathered to Zion and in the goodly land thou shalt enjoy thine inheritance; thy children and thy children's children to the latest generation; for thy name and the names of thy posterity shall be recorded in the book of the Lord, even in the book of blessings and genealogies, for their joy and benefit forever. And now, my son, what more shall I say? Thou art as a fruitful olive and a choice vine: thou shalt be laden with precious fruit. Thousands and tens of thousands shall come to a knowledge of the truth through thy ministry, and thou shalt rejoice with them in the Celestial Kingdom:

Thou shalt stand upon the earth when it shall reel to and fro as a drunken man, and be removed out of its place: thou shalt stand when the mighty judgments go forth to the destruction of the wicked: thou shalt stand on Mount Zion when the tribes of Jacob come shouting from the north, and with thy brethren, the sons of Ephraim, crown them in the name of Jesus Christ: Thou shalt see thy Redeemer come in the clouds of heaven, and with the just receive the hallowed throng with shouts of hallalujahs, praise the Lord. Amen

(Joseph Smith, Sr., Patriarchal Blessing Book no. 1, Historical Department, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah.)
" https://user.xmission.com/~research/about/patb1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UT ... 20smith%22" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40694&p=664800&hil ... in#p664800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"when it shall reel to and fro as a drunken man" ----->>> return of north
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41010&hilit=brothe%2A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:-B

again, although there is a similar wordage used("fountain of truth"), it by no means indicates that JS is The one mighty and strong.He did not fulfill the work prophesied.
Michael and The Lord are described in a similar fashion across the NT yet we know they are not 1 and the same(any Jehovah witnesses here =)) )...thanks for sharing anyway x

tribrac
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4367
Location: The land northward

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by tribrac »

inho wrote:hose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth
this generation would fall apart and melt like snow if some spoke like that.

dafty
captain of 100
Posts: 428

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by dafty »

Robin Hood wrote:I have had an interest in this character for a number of years and wondered if you good folks had any thoughts as to his identity.

Leading contenders appear to be:

A returning Adam
James Strang
Brigham Young
Joseph Smith III
A returning Joseph Smith
A future prophet

Three of these are future events, three have already happened.
Of the historical ones I have no issue dismissing James Strang. However, proponents of both Brigham Young and Joseph Smith III have a case in my view.
Thoughts?
Is OM&S of D&C85 same as 'servant of Isaiah 49?
'd&C85:7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;
Isaiah 49:8 This is what the LORD says: "In the time of my favor I will answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you; I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people, to restore the land and to reassign its desolate inheritances'
And if so, does that mean that the inheritances/the land upon which New Jerusalem shall be built(I presume), will be so devastated prior to building up ZION, that it will need restoring?
Furthermore,the woman of revelation 12(that can symbolise covenant people of God/Israel)flees unto the wilderness to be nourished-Is that wilderness also this desolate place of inheritance Isaiah is speaking of?"Isaiah 49:10They will not hunger or thirst, Nor will the scorching heat or sun strike them down; For He who has compassion on them will lead them And will guide them to springs of water

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13110
Location: England

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by Robin Hood »

tribrac wrote:
inho wrote:hose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth
this generation would fall apart and melt like snow if some spoke like that.
I don't know about that, but I wouldn't want to be close by when this bowel fountain erupts. ;)

simpleton
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3074

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by simpleton »

Opinion...... Robin Hood , read Avraham Gileadi , the book of Isaiah , I think he is on to something... I also think that the OM&S referred to in the 85 d&c is the same individual as the "Davidical King", "Arm of the Lord" "Branch" "Man like Moses" "Son of Man" (not the Son of God) and various other names and types and shadows used throughout the scriptures... but back to your original question , who He is I do not know, but as to if He has come yet and did His work, I absolutely do not think so ... I believe it is yet to transpire ... and the direct main meaning of "a marvelous work and a wonder" is what this Servant does in these last days...

simpleton
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3074

Re: The "One Mighty and Strong" D&C 85:7

Post by simpleton »

The main theme of Isaiah is this Servant/OM&S and the work that this Servant does in the last days ....

Post Reply