UNDER FIRE, by Elder Christofferson

[kennyhs]

‘Under Fire’

Mormon apostle speaks at patriotic service in Utah

“My remarks this evening are about America’s great heritage of religious liberty — and about the need for each of us to defend that heritage before it is too late,” said Elder D. Todd Christofferson of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Mormon apostle was the keynote speaker at the Freedom Festival Patriotic Service in Provo, Utah, Sunday, June 26, 2016.


“Religious freedom is indeed under attack,” Elder Christofferson told an audience in the Marriott Center at Brigham Young University. “I am convinced that those who question the value or even the legitimacy of religious freedom do not understand that it is woven into the very soul of America.”


“Religious participation in public life is not only part of American history and a constitutionally protected freedom, it’s also good for our nation,” he said. “All laws and government policies are based on values — religious or otherwise.”

He argued that religious organizations offer unique perspectives in public debates. “They recognize corrosive social forces that threaten faith, family and freedom.”

“Critics now openly ask whether religion belongs in American public life at all,” he said.

Elder Christofferson continued, “Some even claim, with no sense of history, that religious people and institutions violate the constitutional separation of church and state if they bring their beliefs into the public square.”

He said the American colonists left England for the New World because of their religious conviction. Religious teachings such as the King James Bible also motivated patriots to action during the American Revolution.

“Repeating the pattern set by their Puritan forebears, early Latter-day Saints fled from state to state — eventually settling in the Great Basin — in the hope of building Zion in the wilderness,” recalled Elder Christofferson.

He said religious convictions also “set the terms of the national debates over slavery, emancipation and the Civil War.”

“Recently it has become popular to argue that the freedom of religion is really only the right to worship rather than the right to freely exercise your faith in your daily life — as if religion should be kept in the closet or some other private place,” he said.




Elder Christofferson explained, “There are concerted efforts to shame and intimidate believers who have traditional moral values and to suppress religious viewpoints and practices regarding marriage, family, gender and sexuality. Worst of all, government sometimes joins in these efforts.”

Elder Christofferson reminded the audience that religious believers are entitled to freedom of speech.

He encouraged people of faith to stand up for religious freedom by becoming informed, speaking up and getting involved in cultural and civic organizations and to participate in their political parties.

“We live in challenging times. Religious freedom is indeed under fire. And things may get worse before they get better. But these are our times. This is our moment to defend our fundamental freedoms,” he concluded.

America’s Freedom Festival is recognized as one of the country’s largest patriotic celebrations. It draws thousands of spectators every year from all 50 states and other nations.

[jbalm]

I wonder if his stance would be the same if Islam were the predominant religion in the U.S.

[Joel]

I am for the right to discriminate and the freedom of association, the LDS Church has actively worked to erode those rights for others and has been successful in doing so.

If you are a baker and think Jesus or Allah would get mad at you for baking a wedding cake for a homosexual couple I think you should have the right to refuse them. If you are a property owner and do not want a homosexual living on your property I think you should have the right to rent to whomever you wish. If you are an employer I think you should have the right to hire whomever you want. Or if you are running a church and have a policy of not baptizing children that are part of homosexual or polygamist families I think you should have that right too.

Transparency would save a lot of wasted time and embarrassment. I think it would be nice as a courtesy for businesses & churches to be upfront and post any discrimination policy in effect in a conspicuous location that is visible to patrons, that way no one's time is wasted and even those people who would not be impacted by a discriminatory policy would know about it and allow them greater freedom to decide how they would like to associate or discriminate towards a business/church. That should not be a law but it would be nice to know what type of discrimination policies are in effect upfront.

[kennyhs]

I wonder if his stance would be the same if Islam were the predominant religion in the U.S.

Mormons and Muslims regularly work together to support marriage, family and religious freedom issues. Several LDS apostles joined Muslim leaders and spoke at U.S. and international interfaith gatherings this year. The LDS Church also is a long-time partner with Muslim charitable organizations like International Islamic Relief Organization.

[larsenb]

The Church really needs to support the 1st amendment and the freedom of association, and the Bill of Rights in general . . . basic personal liberties.

Doing so should take care of safeguarding religious liberty. I think it is a mistake to focus just on religious liberties, as if they exist separately from our fundamental personal liberties.

[jbalm]

I wonder if his stance would be the same if Islam were the predominant religion in the U.S.

Mormons and Muslims regularly work together to support marriage, family and religious freedom issues. Several LDS apostles joined Muslim leaders and spoke at U.S. and international interfaith gatherings this year. The LDS Church also is a long-time partner with Muslim charitable organizations like International Islamic Relief Organization.

I don't doubt that at all.

I was just thinking that if the predominant religion in the U.S. was Islam, a lot of currently pro-religious-freedom Christians (including Mormons, of course) would be more inclined to want religion kept private.

You gotta admit, Muslims can be pretty...ummmm...intense...to put it mildly. Makes limits on religious freedom not sound so bad to me. I don't want to be subject to the beliefs of somebody else's religion.

[kennyhs]

I wonder if his stance would be the same if Islam were the predominant religion in the U.S.

Mormons and Muslims regularly work together to support marriage, family and religious freedom issues. Several LDS apostles joined Muslim leaders and spoke at U.S. and international interfaith gatherings this year. The LDS Church also is a long-time partner with Muslim charitable organizations like International Islamic Relief Organization.

I don't doubt that at all.

I was just thinking that if the predominant religion in the U.S. was Islam, a lot of currently pro-religious-freedom Christians (including Mormons, of course) would be more inclined to want religion kept private.

You gotta admit, Muslims can be pretty...ummmm...intense...to put it mildly. Makes limits on religious freedom not sound so bad to me. I don't want to be subject to the beliefs of somebody else's religion.

I agree, they are very intense, but they have no right to condemn anyones relligion . If they want to be herE they will live by the rules, or be shipped home, ( if we get a decent pres.)

[gclayjr]

kennyhs,

I agree, they are very intense, but they have no right to condemn anyones relligion . If they want to be herE they will live by the rules, or be shipped home, ( if we get a decent pres.)

Sure, as long as that condemnation doesn't include violence. The problem with Islam is that it is not JUST a religion, but also a political belief, like Marxism. Mohammed never said "render unto Caesar. that which is Caesar's". In fact he was a murdering pirate who killed or destroyed anybody that got in his way to being the great political leader, including every Jewish community that came under his control.

So while many Muslims personally, while declaring that they want to emulate Mohammed the most perfect man who ever lived, have no intention being the war like pirate he was, we do need to worry about those who truly want to go back to basics and emulate their prophet!

Regards,

George Clay

[Sunain]

Christian Mingle must let LGBT singles use dating site after losing court battle
Judge rules that religious dating site must facilitate same-sex matches for members

God-loving gay singles have won the right to mingle on the world's most popular Christian dating site — and every other faith-based matchmaking network owned by its parent company, following a California court ruling.

Spark Networks, which owns ChristianMingle, JDate, and LDSSingles.com ("the largest dating site by Mormons for Mormons"), first came under legal fire in 2013 after two gay men noticed that new members could only search for dates of the opposite sex.

In filing a class-action lawsuit, the men alleged that Spark was breaking California anti-discrimination laws by making it impossible for members of the LGBT community to use its services.

Same-sex Christian couples couldn't be matched through ChristianMingle because members couldn't register as gay in the first place.

"Spark has engaged in a systemic and intentional pattern and practice of arbitrary discrimination against gays and lesbians throughout California by denying them full and equal services, accommodations, advantages and privileges in connection with many of its commercial dating services," reads the class-action complaint filed in December 2013.

As the Wall Street Journal points out, a California state law known as the Unruh Civil Rights Act mandates that "all business establishments of every kind whatsoever" treat every person within the jurisdiction as free and equal regardless of sex, race, religion, marital status and sexual orientation, among other things.

The suit against Spark states that, at the time of its filing, individuals wishing to use the Spark dating sites for Christians, Catholics, Mormons, Seventh-day Adventists, military singles and black singles could only choose from two options on the home screens of these services: "a man seeking a woman" or "a woman seeking a man."

Last week, approximately 2½ years after the lawsuit was originally filed, Judge Jane L. Johnson of the Superior Court of California in Los Angeles County approved a settlement agreement in which Spark agreed to modify its site and search features to include LGBT singles within two years.

The company did not admit to any wrongdoing, but it did agree to pay each plaintiff $9,000 US and cover the $450,000 they had accumulated together in legal fees.

ChristianMingle's homepage now asks users only for their gender. There are currently no options for selecting the desired gender of one's matches throughout the sign-up process, in filling out a profile, or in searching the site for matches once registered.

Under the terms of the court agreement, this will change — though there's a vocal contingent of people online who don't believe it should.

Twitter critics of the court decision are saying that it's the result of a "bully verdict," an assault on religious liberty, or worse.

Others though, are celebrating the move as an act of inclusion for a group that, despite much progress, still faces discrimination and violence on account of who they love.

"I thought ChristianMingle was a website for Christians to mingle," wrote one commenter on a forum post about the ruling. "I guess that's not allowed."

"Of course it is," another person replied. "And now it includes those Christians seeking a same-sex relationship — which many Christian churches approve of."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/christi ... -1.3663871" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The apostles continue to speak up on how religious freedom is being taken away from us by the reign of the judges over the righteous of this land. This is just another example of a business not being able to be in full control of what they do because the government is overstepping their authority. Elder Christofferson's talk is certainly timely when a decision like this comes out.

I watched Elder Christofferson talk the other day and I believe it's the best talk he's given so far as an apostle. We all need to continue to stand up for religious freedom and liberty. I feel as though we are losing this fight now. Judgement after judgement keeps choosing evil instead of righteousness. I personally think we are approaching the final step where the courts/government will pass a law stating that organizations/churches cannot teach that being gay is immoral/wrong/evil and anyone that teaches that will be labeled a bigot and be criminally charged as a hate crime.

[samizdat]

This at a moment where Vladimir Putin is about to sign a bill that will eliminate religious activities outside of churches or established religious sites.

[Obrien]

I wonder if his stance would be the same if Islam were the predominant religion in the U.S.

His stance would not be allowed to be presented in a public discourse, because there is no protected freedom of speech in Islamic countries.

I worked with some pretty low key Muslims out in CA a few years back. I guess they were Jack Islams...

[Joel]

I am for the right to discriminate and the freedom of association, the LDS Church has actively worked to erode those rights for others and has been successful in doing so.

If you are a baker and think Jesus or Allah would get mad at you for baking a wedding cake for a homosexual couple I think you should have the right to refuse them. If you are a property owner and do not want a homosexual living on your property I think you should have the right to rent to whomever you wish. If you are an employer I think you should have the right to hire whomever you want. Or if you are running a church and have a policy of not baptizing children that are part of homosexual or polygamist families I think you should have that right too.

Transparency would save a lot of wasted time and embarrassment. I think it would be nice as a courtesy for businesses & churches to be upfront and post any discrimination policy in effect in a conspicuous location that is visible to patrons, that way no one's time is wasted and even those people who would not be impacted by a discriminatory policy would know about it and allow them greater freedom to decide how they would like to associate or discriminate towards a business/church. That should not be a law but it would be nice to know what type of discrimination policies are in effect upfront.

it will be interesting to see how the Supreme Court will rule on this....

[sandman45]

‘Elder Christofferson continued, “Some even claim, with no sense of history, that religious people and institutions violate the constitutional separation of church and state if they bring their beliefs into the public square.”

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

So according to the First Amendment I would agree with Christofferson that it (First Amendment) is under fire and there are groups out there actively trying to create laws that prohibit free exercise of a religion...

same with Speech, Pres, etc..

[sandman45]

I wonder if his stance would be the same if Islam were the predominant religion in the U.S.

His stance would not be allowed to be presented in a public discourse, because there is no protected freedom of speech in Islamic countries.

I worked with some pretty low key Muslims out in CA a few years back. I guess they were Jack Islams...

Would be great if anyone on this forum were islamic and lived in one of those countries to verify the claims