Young Women Being Interviewed by Priesthood Leaders

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zionminded
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Young Women Being Interviewed by Priesthood Leaders

Post by zionminded »

How long do you think the church will be able to conduct private interviews with minors (especially opposite gender minors), without a 2nd adult, or parent present? My kids are getting older, but if I had a youth between the age of 12-18 being interviewed with my daughter (and maybe son), I would seriously consider sitting in, unless my son or daughter asked me not too.

I'm sure the vast majority of the time the questions and counseling is responsible and ethical, but I don't think its something that can sustain itself. An adult authority figure asking about sex, sexual virtue, and/or masturbation can be very harmful. I think we allow it because we trust the mantel of the Bishop, but I'm not certain this will be allowed long term in a society that is highly protective of children.

We seen the church having made progress in doubling up teachers, (and other situations), but we've not touched the "sacred cow" (the priesthood interview) yet.

Your thoughts?

PuppyMama
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Post by PuppyMama »

You asked for my thoughts. Here you are:

1. I'm torn. I have personally experienced spiritual healing that can take place with a bishop as a catalyst. I believe that if conducted properly, these meetings can be productive. However, I do not believe that all lay clergy are properly trained for these interviews and I know that some YW have been harmed in them. I also believe that some bishops are good people and sometimes, they can be bad. I have reservations about sending my daughter in when the time comes. We have family rules with regard to all of this and you better believe I will be sitting outside of the door and speaking to the bishop beforehand.

2. I am not certain of the purpose of this thread? Is this an attempt sincerely gather information for good purposes, start a rational conversation, not-so-subtly implant ideas from a critical perspective or cause contention? Because I cannot see how the latter won't happen here.

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ajax
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Post by ajax »

Your youth should never be alone behind closed doors with an adult, however well intentioned or justified (authority figure)

PuppyMama
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Post by PuppyMama »

ajax wrote:Your youth should never be alone behind closed doors with an adult, however well intentioned or justified (authority figure)
As a parent I completely agree with this and it is my intention to keep it from happening. However, if my daughter feels that there is a reason why she needs to initiate a meeting with a bishop or if she desires to attend the regular interviews, I need to be prepared. I plan to discuss with her the kinds of questions she will be asked. She will be given the option to attend. I will speak with the bishop beforehand and offer to sit next to my daughter. If she still does not want me there, we will discuss what actions can be taken if she ever feels uncomfortable... and I will be sitting outside of the door. My hope is that as a youth, she does not ever feel the need to even attend one of these meetings. I have to be realistic, though. She might want to and I need to be prepared for it.

Fiannan
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Post by Fiannan »

I have always told my kids not to answer anything that makes them feel uncomfortable.

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gclayjr
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Post by gclayjr »

As a financial clerk in our ward, I have often been asked to remain in the building when the bishop has an interview with a woman, because I have been told that it is Church Policy that a bishop (or counselor) should never be alone in the building with a woman. I would assume that with YOUNG women, her parents would be there.

I was never in the room with the bishop (or counselor) and the woman, but I guess there has to be some balance between privacy, and safety. I assume that if the woman yelled I would have heard it. Also, I think that most people, who might be inclined to do any hanky-panky would be reluctant to so with someone in the next room. However, I think the biggest reason, would be protection for the bishop (or counselor) , that there was a witness in the building should some vindictive person want to make accusations.

I do understand that the OP was in regards to potential unethical questions, but I think it worth noting that there are policies to try and provide protection against either unethical behavior, or false accusations of unethical behavior.

Regards,

George Clay
Last edited by gclayjr on May 29th, 2016, 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Vision
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Re: Young Women Being Interviewed by Priesthood Leaders

Post by Vision »

I served in 2 bishoprics and interviewed YW, and YM for their semi annual PPI. I kept it brief and to the basics, are you praying, are you reading your scriptures, mostly yes/no questions and got them out of the interview in five minutes or less. The nature of the handbook requiring the interview makes it more about the handbook and less about the child. Ultimately the Parents should be conducting these interviews not bishopric members.

I also had to give temple recommend questions to the youth that was more awkward with the morality questions. I never felt comfortable with the morality questions so I asked the question and had the kids go talk with their parents about the topic.

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Post by JohnnyL »

Many bishops will attest that YW and YM have told them things they needed for repentance, that they would never have told their parents.

On the other hand, yes, there can be problems. A counselor in the stake presidency would conduct 10 minute interviews with the girls, and 25 minute interviews with one that he ended up marrying a few years later. Yet, I've known two bishops who were excommunicated for sexual reasons, and that was never a problem.

Counselors shouldn't be asking questions about sex. They could and should suggest that if there is any of ... going on, to talk with the bishop (and he shouldn't be setting up the interview, either).

Counselors shouldn't generally be answering questions about sex, either, for any age.

All our bishops' offices had windows, just like all our classrooms.

When I taught (lone male teacher) in Primary, parents were free to look in, show up, stay as they wished. (Didn't have a red book, didn't know the policy then.)

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gkearney
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Post by gkearney »

This is a practice that really needs to end, and one that will, mark my words, someday blow up into a big incident or incidents for the church. Not only is it a danger to the children and youth involved it endangers the Bishops and other priesthood leaders involved. It take only one misunderstanding or untruthful charge of impropriety to ruin the life of the priesthood leader. If anything argues for women's ordination it is this practice. I had a Bishop in Australia who was so troubled by the prospects of danger in this regard he had his wife or the young woman's president always sit in.

All it takes is for one interview to go badly, and the girl to decide to ruin the lif of the Bishop. She make a charge of improper behaviour behind closed doors and the man life, marriage and likely his liberty is finished!

zionminded
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Post by zionminded »

Just a few misc replies.

For the most part, I think Bishops and interview protocols are very professional, Spirit driven and appropriate. I also know they help many youth. This has been my experience in Bishoprics.

When the lines are crossed, I don't think it is because of predatory abuse from the Bishop. From my experience in professional counseling, it usually comes from insensitivity or ignorance. For example the bishop may be asking probing questions after disclosure when there are related issues that require of a therapeutic approach than prayer and scripture study. and the questions are triggering or uncomfortable, causing psychological stress in a young women or man. There maybe serious underlying psychological or mental disorders, family problems, history of abuse etc., and they are not often seen by a Bishop with little to no training in mental health, or more important, human sexuality.

I think we cast teenage sexual exploration inappropriately in many cases, where Bishops may use preemptively labels of porn addiction to a teen age boy, when its no more than impulsive curiosity and a mild compulsion.

This of course is a big topic. However, I can see the day soon, when the practices of teen interviews change. In states that are dominated by conservative LDS practices, I think you will see more allowance for clergy to operate this way, but globally and in other states, I think these policies will change.

If they do, what do you see as alternatives? (By the way, I TOTALLY agree, on parents being the focal point for such interview, except where the parents maybe a part of the problem)

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Post by Fiannan »

This of course is a big topic. However, I can see the day soon, when the practices of teen interviews change. In states that are dominated by conservative LDS practices, I think you will see more allowance for clergy to operate this way, but globally and in other states, I think these policies will change.
Not sure about that. Considering we now have the US government wanting to put men in women's bathrooms and a major newspaper saying that little girls need to geet used to seeing male organs in bathrooms (soon, showers?) we may be entering an age that nothing will be off limits to discuss.

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gclayjr
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Post by gclayjr »

all,

All. Do you not believe that in order to go to the Temple, or on a mission, one must be clean? Do you not believe that to repent of certain sexual sins, included in the repentance process is confession of the sin to a Bishop?

I see 2 things going on here.

1) several people, including myself, noting how there are procedures in place to protect individuals form some sort of abuse that might happen during the interview

2) Those who think that these procedures are not adequate (interestingly, seems more oriented towards fear that someone might be embarrassed, have their feelings hurt, or might be psychologically traumatized, rather than any real abuse... I know in this girly age, we think that nobody should have their feelings hurt, be embarrassed, or heaven forbid be traumatized by having to deal with life's problems)


However, I don't see anybody who are embracing (2) above, explain how the true principles above might be accomplished without bringing about those things they fear. Unless, of course you don't believe in the principles stated above. If so, then it doesn't matter, because your beliefs are apostate, and there is no need to be baptized, go to the temple, or go on a mission, and hence no need for your little darlin's to be interviewed by a Bishop or his counselors.

Regards,

Gerog Clay

zionminded
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Post by zionminded »

gclayjr wrote:all,

All. Do you not believe that in order to go to the Temple, or on a mission, one must be clean? Do you not believe that to repent of certain sexual sins, included in the repentance process is confession of the sin to a Bishop?

I see 2 things going on here.

1) several people, including myself, noting how there are procedures in place to protect individuals form some sort of abuse that might happen during the interview

2) Those who think that these procedures are not adequate (interestingly, seems more oriented towards fear that someone might be embarrassed, have their feelings hurt, or might be psychologically traumatized, rather than any real abuse... I know in this girly age, we think that nobody should have their feelings hurt, be embarrassed, or heaven forbid be traumatized by having to deal with life's problems)


However, I don't see anybody who are embracing (2) above, explain how the true principles above might be accomplished without bringing about those things they fear. Unless, of course you don't believe in the principles stated above. If so, then it doesn't matter, because your beliefs are apostate, and there is no need to be baptized, go to the temple, or go on a mission, and hence no need for your little darlin's to be interviewed by a Bishop or his counselors.

Regards,

Gerog Clay
Good thoughts Brother Clay. My personal opinion is we take too much effort focusing on worthiness, and less time on our dependance on Christ and the atonement. We are all a church of sinners, none of us are worthy in the literal sense.

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oneClimbs
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Re: Young Women Being Interviewed by Priesthood Leaders

Post by oneClimbs »

The Catholic confessionals are interesting in that there are two rooms where the individuals are separated. In a Bishop's office there is always a desk, and I think it's there for the same effect, to maintain distance from the person being counseled. I think it is better to have someone like a Bishop that is accessible for counsel than not.

Having four daughters, I would be very much welcome to the Relief Society president being available to conduct interviews for the girls and women. As an Elders quorum president, we were instructed at the time that certain sins or issues could be confessed/discussed with us instead of the bishop. If it was something major like adultery, abuse, or a crime, then yes they needed to speak with the Bishop.

I did council with a certain man regarding pornography issues which he revealed during a home teaching personal priesthood interview. We worked out an arrangement where I would text him daily during the time of his greatest struggle (which was at a particular time of day) and I was able to come and give him a blessing in his home once. I'm not a psychologist or an expert in psychology, but I don't think I needed to be. I think just having someone who cares about you and is there to support you in ways that you invite is a valuable thing which the church facilitates. Psychologists cost money, some things you don't want friends to know, so a church leader who has been called to a position of council is a valuable asset even if only for the cause that they can act as a sounding board. Even then, a bishop, a friend, an elders quorum president, a relief society president, or a psychologist may say something damaging. I don't think you can get around that, it's just the human condition and we will never be immune from unintentional damages born of human interaction.

As far as worthiness goes, I think many problems surrounding this concept are due to our own misunderstandings that we impose upon it. On the one hand, you can look at it like some sort of useless checklist that exists to classify people and divide them into either good or bad, worthy or unworthy categories. There doesn't seem to be much atonement there.

However, I see it a little differently. Ultimately there is nothing stopping anyone from straight up lying on the temple recommend questions. If it was a question of pure security for the temple, then the questions would be more probing and you might have to demonstrate the validity of certain facts in some way. But these are yes or no questions with no further inquiries after answering each. To me, the interview is also a symbolic act. You are given the opportunity to sit down with an individual representing the Lord. Can you talk to the Lord and answer those questions honestly? If you have a problem with a question, you can voice it and receive council on how to navigate the conflict.

Recently I have heard of a woman receiving a temple recommend even though she drank a little and didn't wear her garments all the time. Why would he do this? Well, the woman is married to a non-member and refusing to drink and wearing garments to bed was causing a ton of contention in the relationship (there may have been more). She didn't want to do those things, but her husband compelled her and it was either compromise with him on a few things or leave the church. So in this specific case, his council was "Just do the best you can" and handed her the recommend.

I do think the atonement is involved and I do think these experiences, when utilized properly, can be extremely valuable, even essential to the church. Nothing involving human relations is 100% free from conflict or problems. There will always be conflicts between certain dynamics of individuals, it's unavoidable, but don't let that distract from the great good that is done that almost always goes unreported.

Sunain
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Post by Sunain »

Parents have always been able to be in the interview with their children. There is no church policy stating that a youth must have an individual interview. If a parent or the youth feels uncomfortable having an individual interview, they just have to request to be present. It's a very common occurrence.
7.1.7 Guidelines for Youth Interviews
Leaders encourage parents to stay close to their children and to counsel them, allowing the leaders to act in a supporting role.

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ason123
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Post by ason123 »

All of the above comments are interesting thoughts. I am a woman, and I must say, I like how the setup is now when it comes to the bishop's interviews with minors. They have the ward clerk in the next room or some other counselor to deter impropriety.

I do not think that the parents of a minor should be listening in to the interview, as much as I am sure they would think they would be helping to do so. This could deter minors from opening up about sensitive topics, as they know their parents are hanging on to their every word and might hold things against them. It might make them nervous.

Also, I would not want the relief society president to interview about worthiness. There tends to be the stereotype of relief society women gossiping or disclosing secrets that they should not. Sometimes they just can't help it. Not all women are like that (I do realize this), but a good amount of them accidentally let confidences slip while they are with other women because talking about problems helps with their thought processes. It is easy to talk about someone to others when you are concerned about them, and I know that for me, I always think my mom, sisters, or friends might be able to give me some good advice about certain problems. On the other hand, I have never heard of a bishop accidentally letting something personal slip about someone he interviewed while he was golfing with his buddies, spending time with his father or sons, or something like that.

OK I know that was extremely stereotypical and probably not fully accurate, but this is just my own view. I know when I was a teenager, my bishops were always kind, sensitive, and approached certain topics with care. They never asked me about pornography, masturbation, etc. The question was... "Do you keep the law of chastity? Are there any concerns you might have about anything related to this?" And if there ever was, I felt like it was a relief to be able to talk to someone other than my parents to make sure my spirituality was in line with what God wanted for me.

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oneClimbs
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Re: Young Women Being Interviewed by Priesthood Leaders

Post by oneClimbs »

ason123 wrote: Also, I would not want the relief society president to interview about worthiness. There tends to be the stereotype of relief society women gossiping or disclosing secrets that they should not. Sometimes they just can't help it. Not all women are like that (I do realize this), but a good amount of them accidentally let confidences slip while they are with other women because talking about problems helps with their thought processes. It is easy to talk about someone to others when you are concerned about them, and I know that for me, I always think my mom, sisters, or friends might be able to give me some good advice about certain problems. On the other hand, I have never heard of a bishop accidentally letting something personal slip about someone he interviewed while he was golfing with his buddies, spending time with his father or sons, or something like that.

OK I know that was extremely stereotypical and probably not fully accurate, but this is just my own view. I know when I was a teenager, my bishops were always kind, sensitive, and approached certain topics with care. They never asked me about pornography, masturbation, etc. The question was... "Do you keep the law of chastity? Are there any concerns you might have about anything related to this?" And if there ever was, I felt like it was a relief to be able to talk to someone other than my parents to make sure my spirituality was in line with what God wanted for me.
Although your comments could be interpreted as being very sexist, based on personal observations and experiences there might actually be something to what you are suggesting. Based on conversations with my wife and some of the unfortunate drama among her friends, there are some serious issues it seems with some women in keeping confidences, in fact, there is a big firestorm right now due to that very thing.

The comedian Brian Regan has a bit about a woman asking her husband about his friend that he just went golfing with. The joke is about how the husband knows virtually nothing about his friend's (who just went through a divorce) personal life after spending four hours alone with him. Maybe there is a difference between how men and women keep confidences, or perhaps there is something to the difference between how women tend to speak more about relationships and personal things and men don't. These are generalizations, however, but maybe distinct enough to understand why it seems the Lord has set things up in certain ways. Interesting to think about.

I'm glad you had good experiences with Bishops. I think many people do, along with some that don't, but unfortunately good things that work consistently well never make the headlines.

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g_luv_style
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Post by g_luv_style »

I have a close friend that is serving as a YW president and she has offered to attend any interview with her YW if they would like her there. I believe she has sat in on a few. They were not because there was a perceived threat from the bishop, but rather gave her youth a bit of moral support during the process. It seems like a good option. While a parent would be optimal, sometimes as a youth its hard to involve and talk about certain things with mom and dad. I know a good youth leader made a huge difference in my life.

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Post by Fiannan »

Aren't the questions quite general and allow the person being interviewed to interpret heir worthiness? Anything beyond the standard questions are going beyond the guidelines. Yes, there was a bishop in our stake when I was younger who had a real hangup on masturbation and he would ask questions in such a way as if he were writing an erotic novel or something. That is totally against procedure. Of course this means that a person with high guilt issues will confess to everything from masturbation to drinking green tea to not going back to the store when given a nickle too much in change. Someone else will only confess if they are having an affair with the Relief Society president. Ultimately it comes down to what is interfering with that person's personal growth to Christlike ideals. So nothing is set in stone and nobody who goes to the temple is really 100% celestial. I remember back to a talk in my stake in which the speaker pointed out that the lockers at the temple have locks and keys to them. Of course there is a reason, right?

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ason123
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Post by ason123 »

5tev3 wrote:
ason123 wrote: Also, I would not want the relief society president to interview about worthiness. There tends to be the stereotype of relief society women gossiping or disclosing secrets that they should not. Sometimes they just can't help it. Not all women are like that (I do realize this), but a good amount of them accidentally let confidences slip while they are with other women because talking about problems helps with their thought processes. It is easy to talk about someone to others when you are concerned about them, and I know that for me, I always think my mom, sisters, or friends might be able to give me some good advice about certain problems. On the other hand, I have never heard of a bishop accidentally letting something personal slip about someone he interviewed while he was golfing with his buddies, spending time with his father or sons, or something like that.

OK I know that was extremely stereotypical and probably not fully accurate, but this is just my own view. I know when I was a teenager, my bishops were always kind, sensitive, and approached certain topics with care. They never asked me about pornography, masturbation, etc. The question was... "Do you keep the law of chastity? Are there any concerns you might have about anything related to this?" And if there ever was, I felt like it was a relief to be able to talk to someone other than my parents to make sure my spirituality was in line with what God wanted for me.
Although your comments could be interpreted as being very sexist, based on personal observations and experiences there might actually be something to what you are suggesting. Based on conversations with my wife and some of the unfortunate drama among her friends, there are some serious issues it seems with some women in keeping confidences, in fact, there is a big firestorm right now due to that very thing.

The comedian Brian Regan has a bit about a woman asking her husband about his friend that he just went golfing with. The joke is about how the husband knows virtually nothing about his friend's (who just went through a divorce) personal life after spending four hours alone with him. Maybe there is a difference between how men and women keep confidences, or perhaps there is something to the difference between how women tend to speak more about relationships and personal things and men don't. These are generalizations, however, but maybe distinct enough to understand why it seems the Lord has set things up in certain ways. Interesting to think about.

I'm glad you had good experiences with Bishops. I think many people do, along with some that don't, but unfortunately good things that work consistently well never make the headlines.
HAHA! I know! It really could potentially sound sexist (I apologize for that), but just know that it wasn't meant to be. I was merely pointing out the stereotypes and connecting them with the possible reason why relief society president worthiness interviews are not a thing. I don't actually think all (or even most) women are gossipy hens or that all men are the silent-type that plays golf... or anything like that. In fact I am a feminist - but I know how to laugh at my own gender and don't have a problem with pointing out the fact that there are bundles of women that do fit into the "stereotype box." On another note, I LOVE Brian Regan! :))

djinwa
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Post by djinwa »

Just noticed this thread.

Couple problems I have with these interviews.

One is it allows pervs to titillate themselves. My SIL was creeped out when their stake president had been arrested for soliciting teenage girls over the internet. He had interviewed their daughters.

Second, the interviews undermine the authority of parents, and the relationship between husband and wife.

When I was having some struggles, as my wife would later admit, she was going to the bishop for advice and he was recommending she leave me. Seemed like she was sneaking around talking to others, but not me. How is that not cheating?

So that just added another layer of trouble to our marriage, as it didn't seem like her primary loyalty was to me, but it was to the church. I was the last guy in a threesome. I finally accepted that she never did marry me for me, but for the money and to boost her status at church.

And I thought parents were primarily responsible for their children? But they have to go have a secret meeting with some guy without you being there because they won't talk to you? So apparently parents are useless or unwanted.

Turns out that family isn't as important as the church claims. The church is the family.

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Post by butterfly »

I don't want to be negative, but I never liked priesthood interviews.
I don't like being forced to tell personal details of my life to someone I may not know very well or trust.
I think interviews should be by choice only and never required.

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Sirocco
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Post by Sirocco »

butterfly wrote:I don't want to be negative, but I never liked priesthood interviews.
I don't like being forced to tell personal details of my life to someone I may not know very well or trust.
I think interviews should be by choice only and never required.
They're a big reason I've not made my joining official.
I know I wouldn't do it.
No ifs, ands or buts.
I am a hard person to get to do anything and I liked the people at the church back home and didn't want to subject them to my oddities.
There was a few things, me being a very secretive person and me being a very solitary person.
The church is no place for a loner who obsesses over his privacy :))
I'm not a family man, and I felt a bit sad that I had no place in it all.

butterfly
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Post by butterfly »

Sirocco wrote:
butterfly wrote:I don't want to be negative, but I never liked priesthood interviews.
I don't like being forced to tell personal details of my life to someone I may not know very well or trust.
I think interviews should be by choice only and never required.
They're a big reason I've not made my joining official.
I know I wouldn't do it.
No ifs, ands or buts.
I am a hard person to get to do anything and I liked the people at the church back home and didn't want to subject them to my oddities.
There was a few things, me being a very secretive person and me being a very solitary person.
The church is no place for a loner who obsesses over his privacy :))
I'm not a family man, and I felt a bit sad that I had no place in it all.
I'm sorry you felt sad being there solo. I've heard others express the same sentiment.

I agree with you, though- if you want privacy, church is not the place to find it. Ward leaders talk about the members in meetings or councils. I believe it's with good intent, they sincerely want to help, but when personal struggles are shared in a MTG in an effort to help with a calling, get someone back to church, get them temple ready, etc, the line becomes very thin between helping and gossiping.
I feel I can't confide in any leaders, R.S. or bishopric, because concerns I bring up tend to get talked about in ward council out of "love."

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Sirocco
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Re: Young Women Being Interviewed by Priesthood Leaders

Post by Sirocco »

butterfly wrote:
Sirocco wrote:
butterfly wrote:I don't want to be negative, but I never liked priesthood interviews.
I don't like being forced to tell personal details of my life to someone I may not know very well or trust.
I think interviews should be by choice only and never required.
They're a big reason I've not made my joining official.
I know I wouldn't do it.
No ifs, ands or buts.
I am a hard person to get to do anything and I liked the people at the church back home and didn't want to subject them to my oddities.
There was a few things, me being a very secretive person and me being a very solitary person.
The church is no place for a loner who obsesses over his privacy :))
I'm not a family man, and I felt a bit sad that I had no place in it all.
I'm sorry you felt sad being there solo. I've heard others express the same sentiment.

I agree with you, though- if you want privacy, church is not the place to find it. Ward leaders talk about the members in meetings or councils. I believe it's with good intent, they sincerely want to help, but when personal struggles are shared in a MTG in an effort to help with a calling, get someone back to church, get them temple ready, etc, the line becomes very thin between helping and gossiping.
I feel I can't confide in any leaders, R.S. or bishopric, because concerns I bring up tend to get talked about in ward council out of "love."

Yeah they wouldn't know how to help my problems, it's not ones that can really be helped so telling them to strangers is kind of pointless.
And then there's the more, well basic things the church doesn't go for (eg premarital sex, which I admittedly agree some levels with them but I'm a lonely guy sometimes and I can be very awkward with women and I'll never get married so I got a bit of understanding in today's hook up culture. Not something I am truly proud of but they'd not understand my feelings or why I did that or why I feel the hopelessness I do).
It's not their fault, they just wouldn't understand.

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