The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

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dconrad000
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by dconrad000 »

Gclayjr:

Just as in gasoline, it is actually the hydrogen atoms that provide the explosive power. It is the same with water...the hydrogen atoms just need to be separated out first. Stanley Meyer proved that can be done with a tiny amount of electricity, properly applied. His proof is in the videos I posted...a murdered man speaking from the dust. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. The videos are there for anyone that is curious to see them...do as you please.

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dconrad000
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by dconrad000 »

Skmo:

Why don't you quit being so vague and tell us how you really feel?

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skmo
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by skmo »

dconrad000 wrote:Skmo:

Why don't you quit being so vague and tell us how you really feel?
I know. I hope and pray I will be able to come out of my shell.

(Make sure you read that as "My shell" and not "The closet"...) :-o

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dconrad000
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by dconrad000 »

LOL

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Jason
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by Jason »

skmo wrote:Here's an idea:

Shut up! Shut all your yapping like a pack of upset Pomeranians!

I believe the topic was to discuss how the idea of working on your own car and keeping it running is a dying art, and somebody was asking for some direction about how to choose a car they could reliably work on themselves. I don't recall anyone asking for all the latest moose-brained ideas about which corporate gadianton is trying to kill which light-bearing messenger from God or how the CIA is trying to harvest your epithelial cells to clone you for future commodities for the intergalactic slave auction or whatever the latest conspiracy is. Is it possible to have a beneficial, pleasant-toned discussion about a topic without wild fuzzy illuminati warnings as the overwhelming undertone?

I understand the rancor in political discussions. Getting into opposing political ideas and expecting to come out clean and happy makes about as much sense as going to a cat house looking for a pure bride. But does every discussion have to end in bloody conspiracy theories?

It does when tinkering is illegal and against the law...not to mention being fairly expensive with very little financial reward.

Much easier to run the gums (or fingers in this case)...rather than to do

Teancum
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by Teancum »

skmo wrote:Here's an idea:

Shut up! Shut all your yapping like a pack of upset Pomeranians!

But does every discussion have to end in bloody conspiracy theories?

Teancum
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by Teancum »

But this one applies to this thread better :D :ymhug: :

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dconrad000
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by dconrad000 »

LOL

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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by Ezra »

Yes cuz they are fun to talk about.

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skmo
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by skmo »

Wonderful good cartoons. It's a shame that Looney Tunes has more wisdom than what we have to teach in school does. Great good fun for us to reminisce, though. Thanks.

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gclayjr
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by gclayjr »

All,

If we are finally ready to stop beating this conspiracy horse, there are some things kind of related to it that came up that might be interesting in regards to the original concept of this thread.

If, you live in a windy area, or a stream, you could build either a windmill (with all of this environmental cash and enthusiasm there have been great strides in improving windmill efficiency), or a water turbine and connect them to an electric generator. You could then build some sort of an electrolysis machine, convert water into Hydrogen and oxygen, compress it and use it in your car, and voila, you are completely independent of either Big Oil or Big Electric for your fuel. Of course you could just use the electricity to charge an electric car and run it free from Oil and utilities. Or if you live in a sunny area and willing to spend some serious cash, you could build a large solar panel array and do the same thing. Actually, none of these solutions are cheap. But they are inexpensive enough that if one was seriously committed, they could do it.

In Germany, during WW2, after the allies had bombed their refineries to bits, they built wood gas devices to run their cars. It turns out that if you heat up wood chips without oxygen, they produce a gas which can be used to run gasoline engines.

Actually our own government (FEMA) was given a task in the 1970s to come up with plans for making woodgas generators out of materials that were readily available (...in the 1970s... maybe not so much now, for example it uses 30 gallon steel drums, now plastic is used more), to prepare in case through war or some other emergency gasoline was no longer available. Many people have built these generators from these plans, which are readily available on the internet for free. Yahoo has a woodgas enthusiasts forum where enthusiasts trade tricks, tips and lessons from their own experience building them. While some people use these on their cars and trucks, just to be independent, I would only recommend building one for a SHTF situation.

Of course, one of my hobbies, is building steam engines. I am a member of the "Rough and Tumble" historical society (check out their web page).

http://www.roughandtumble.org/

Steam engines, while a moving work of art are a major PITA to operate, but as they say

"In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king!"

Regards,

George Clay

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David13
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by David13 »

What was it Ed Norton used to say to Ralph Cramden? Oh, yeah, sheesh, what a grouch!
Ok, a few weeks ago the window in my car fell down. Due to cheap repairs made at the ... Honda dealer. You might expect better there, no?
Anyway, so instead of going to San Diego I came back and opened the door (took it apart), went down and got a new regulator and put it in.
Easy. But I did have to have two other hands hold the glass while I lined it up.
Now I need to change the timing belt. There are extensive and complete videos on how to on youtube. So even if I couldn't figure it out, which I can, or even if I didn't have the Haynes book, which I do, I could do it.
So, just some fun work, and the car is still not disposable.
So, in conclusion I think the cars are more fixable and longer lasting than ever. But then, that's a Honda.
dc

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gclayjr
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by gclayjr »

David13,

Fixing windows is tougher than they used to be, but I'm glad you had a good experience "doing it yourself". Kinda makes you feel good about yourself doesn't it?

Maybe some of these new cars are easier to fix than I thought. What year, and model is your Honda?

Regards,

George Clay

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David13
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by David13 »

Usually any job I do takes at least a few days, or weeks. Because when I open it up, I then find other bad parts, and I need to go to buy them, etc. I like to replace everything.
I remember a job my neighbor and I had a Toyota, and I don't know why, oh, probably motor mounts. And we had to take out one engine carriage bolt.
I had an old torque wrench and the torque was like 150 to put the bolt back in. A huge bolt. One of a couple that held the entire engine carriage in.
Well, I had told my neighbor that I thought the torque wrench had gone bad, as it had some rust on it and was old. Several times I told him.
But he kept insisting that he was going to get that wrench to click on that carriage bolt. Finally he put a large pipe on it, and twang, broke it off.
It took him several days to get that broke piece out. Particularly as it had far more than 150 ftlbs of torque on it.
So it's not always easy. But even then I thought it was fun.
dc

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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by Teancum »

The recent discussion about E.M.P. vulnerabilities in vehichles got me to thinking about how one might mitigate this exposure to a likely E.M.P. event - for their vehichle. SInce this thread is about tinkering around on automobiles, and I received a grand shout down for deviating slightly from the holy topic, I thought I would share some of my experiences about such things.

Since my youth, I have always had an interest in alternative energy (If you havent noticed). I helped my dad build a windmill from an old washing machine and helped him put it up on a tower next to our garage. It was a drum with buckets around the outside type of mill. The output results back in those teenage years was exceptionally poor - it would not run a bicycle generator except if the barn was in danger of leaving the property.

Since then, I have still tried my hand at building my own windmills. On one of my attempts, I was transferring this completed windmill (about 10 foot diameter) from the assembly area to a spot on my proprety where I wanted to put it up. I had placed the center bearing pipe of the windmill on the front bucket of a farm tractor, and was driving it down the road (also testing the mill for startup wind speed, etc). As I was aproaching an intersection out in the country, a neighbor drove by and asked if this was a wind-powered tractor. George's foray into different types of energy brought this back to my memory, but alas, I didn't think to take any pictures of the adventure. This is the closest that I can come to showing my experince:
Found here:http://www.otherpower.com/bdwm53.html
Image

So to end the story, even though the windmill was spinning away as the tractor was driving down the road, I told the neighbor, no this version is not "The windmill powered tractor", it is yet to be developed. I have built other windmills since, but that was the only one that had the priviledge of being part tractor part airplane, 100 % me.
My latest windmill is a 20 foot diameter homebuilt unit. It is too tall to put on any vehicle now :( .

So in trying to stay with the topic, and hoping not to risk another explosion by SKMO, here are some conversions that might give some ideas.
Found here:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/blogg ... 6275/posts
Image
And then there is this belt driven unit. - Sorry I couldn't get the picture to load.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/arnisd/5889416225

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gclayjr
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by gclayjr »

Kensurplus,

Since my youth, I have always had an interest in alternative energy
So why did you not respond to any of the posts I made on this thread regarding woodgas?

Which has actually been used, is in use today, and is not some mysterious thing that has been hidden by evil, conspiring oil barons.

Regards,

George Clay

Teancum
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by Teancum »

gclayjr wrote:Kensurplus,

Since my youth, I have always had an interest in alternative energy
So why did you not respond to any of the posts I made on this thread regarding woodgas?

Which has actually been used, is in use today, and is not some mysterious thing that has been hidden by evil, conspiring oil barons.

Regards,

George Clay
Why should I respond with my own experiences, results based upon years of work, study, and doing, when you have treated information that I have shared about others' hard work, very disparagingly, rudely, and with the same courtesy of a mocking attitude the great and spacious building uses? All the while, not even looking at the information to see if there is anything new discovered! No, God has said knowledge is imparted to those who receive it, and to whom will not receive, is taken away even that which they have (or a close approximation anyway). God will not be mocked, so then why do I or my experiences, have to be mocked?

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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by Teancum »

I had better tie up the loose ends with my above post about the E.M.P. hardened vehicles, and some interesting new claims.

So, here is the marrying of George's wind with automotive tinkering on an electric vehichle:

Found here:http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable ... eaeec8d9bd
Aerospace engineer Robert Yost has developed and patented a micro wind
turbine device that is capable of generating power in wind speeds as low as
1 mph, and as fast as 80 mph. In order to demonstrate how his 3D printed
MicroCubes could revolutionize the way we generate renewable energy, Yost,
the founder of American Wind, will drive across the United States in an
electric vehicle powered by four MicroCubes without stopping even once to
plug in the battery for a recharge.

Each individual MicroCube stands at only 9x9x9 inches and weighs 3 lbs, but
is capable of generating 3-phase AC power, which can either be converted to
DC power for backup storage, or directly connected to power grids. For
increased power, MicroCubes can be stacked behind one another in what Yost
calls a ‘wind wall’ to capture each other’s output. A single MicroCube can
generate more power than a standard solar panel for a fraction of the size,
and stacking several Cubes together in the same space it takes for one solar
panel can produce 18x as much energy. While engineers have previously worked
with miniature turbines and combining multiple turbines together, Yost’s
patented design stands apart due to its truly impressive efficiency. This
deciding factor comes from his unique, multiple airfoil design, which
captures a high level of windflow. "Other options don't work because they
don't produce the amount of electricity that our unit generates," said Yost.
"A U.S. patent examiner told us there has never been a generator created
with the characteristics of the MicroCube. That type of efficiency makes all
the difference."

3D printing technology, provided with the support of 3D Systems’ cloud-based
manufacturing service Quickparts, played a major role in helping Yost
realize this project. Rapid prototyping processes and the ability to explore
many different materials with specific qualities allowed him to work one
more than 20 different iterations of the MicroCube, each improving on the
last. In fact, Yost was able to manufacture flexible, durable 3D printed
plastic parts and assembles that are indistinguishable from injection
molded-product parts in all aspects except for time and money: his work was
done at a fraction of the cost and in a quarter of the time. “Quickparts
enables us to use 3D printing to explore what works and what doesn’t work on
a production part,” said Yost. “We can make multiple changes and print those
changes without investing thousands of dollars in molds or machining parts
out of expensive materials.” Quickparts utilized 3D System’s SLS printing
technology and three different materials: DuraForm polyamide (PA), DuraForm
glass-filled (GF), and DuraForm HST Composite.

Yost is acutely aware of his many critics and nonbeleivers, and so he has
come up with a bold adventure to prove his concept works. He has installed
four MicroCubes on the roof of a Ford C-Max Energi electric car, generating
what he estimates will be 2,800 watts per hour to keep its lithium-ion
battery charged. While electric vehicles have been on the market for some
time, promising to help us reduce our deadly carbon footprints and reliance
on non-renewable fuels, the reality is that most electric cars can only
drive short distances—anywhere from 25-312 miles—before they need to be
recharged. If Yost’s plan to drive the thousands of miles across America
without stopping to recharge his vehicle works, he will have created a
cost-effective and Earth-friendly power alternative, and accomplished what
other said could never be done.

Additional applications for the MicroCube include stacking them by the
thousands in populated cities, where, unlike traditional turbines, they can
efficiently deal with the turbulent air conditions. They can also be placed
into cellular towers to produce power during disaster periods, or to
increase power on busy days.

His inspiration came from watching an Alabama tornado in 2011 and observing
how the wind was harnessed by a pedestal fan. As an engineer with a
backround working for major aerospace companies such as Boeing and GE
Aircraft Engines, Yost founded American Wind and quickly put his skills to
work. "Yes, I've heard all the critics state that this is perpetual motion,
which can't be done," he said. "We also hear that wind turbines cannot
produce enough energy in such a small form factor as the MicroCube. We are
not breaking any physics laws with the MicroCube, but we are pushing the
limits of what is known today. And we have the test results to prove it
works."
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150918- ... ocube.html
Image

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gclayjr
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by gclayjr »

kensurplus,
gclayjr wrote:
Kensurplus,
Since my youth, I have always had an interest in alternative energy
So why did you not respond to any of the posts I made on this thread regarding woodgas?

Which has actually been used, is in use today, and is not some mysterious thing that has been hidden by evil, conspiring oil barons.

Regards,

George Clay
Why should I respond with my own experiences, results based upon years of work, study, and doing, when you have treated information that I have shared about others' hard work, very disparagingly, rudely, and with the same courtesy of a mocking attitude the great and spacious building uses? A
Apparently, you aren't really interested in a dialog about effective ways of building cars that work on alternative sources of energy. You just want to rant... go ahead. have a conversation with yourself.

Regards,

George Clay

P.S.

Image

Looks less like a joke than many of your images.

Teancum
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by Teancum »

George,

If you had bothered to look into some of the links that I had posted here on this thread, you would have come across the information for woodgas, as well as many other types, long before you had mentioned it.
gclayjr wrote:kensurplus,


Apparently, you aren't really interested in a dialog about effective ways of building cars that work on alternative sources of energy. You just want to rant... go ahead. have a conversation with yourself.

Regards,

George Clay

P.S.

Image

Looks less like a joke than many of your images.

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gclayjr
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by gclayjr »

kennysurplus,

You still don't get it. I appreciate that you may have included woodgas in your reams of copied and pasted stuff. This is a discussion board. The idea is to exchange ideas about the merits or lack there of of various ideas. I know that you got your "panties in a twist", because my position on the merit or lack there of of your magical water carburetor, was that is was fanciful conspiratorial BS, and I demonstrated this by showing that it defies physics and chemistry, and since you cannot produce a single working example of a working magical water carburetor, you responded by getting angry and just downloading more reams of unsubstantiated BS. As pathetic as this was, I guess it was an exchange of ideas on the merits or lack thereof of your proposition.

I pointed out that there is an alternative energy solution that has been tried in the past, and for those interested, they are continuing to to use it today, that has some merit. I know it has some difficulties, because, since I don't believe that the solution to mankind's problems have been stifled by secret cabals, I know that there are other reason's why the people of Europe went immediately back to gasoline as soon as it became available after WW2.

But rather than have a rational discussion about the pluses and minuses about building cars that run on wood chips, you prefer to smugly note that the existence of this is noted in your mountains of copied material, and that because your feelings are hurt, you will not share your vast experience in such matters.

I will try and successfully continue my life and learning, without the unshared valuable valuable knowledge that you have gained over the years, although, I'm sure it will be difficult.

Regards,

George Clay

Teancum
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by Teancum »

Found here:
http://www.ziaruldeiasi.ro/stiri/masina ... 16395.html
Google translate:
https://translate.google.nl/translate?h ... 16395.html
Image
5000 km drive going with 2 liters of water. Invention expects to begin mass production

16/01/2016 17:39:49

Bacauan an engineer, inventor of the engine that runs on hydrogen, expects to begin mass production thereof. Inventor already drive a car that consumes 3 liters of water in two months. George Bordeianu (50 years) TCM is an engineer and worked 20 years in the aircraft factory in Bacau. A number of patented inventions already lost because there is no money to pay the maintenance fee OSIM for each of them. Believed to be over 100, mostly in the field of machine tools and motors.

The darling of the discoveries she is separating hydrogen ion generator, oxygen device, attached to conventional engines, replacing gasoline or diesel power. Bacauan engineer now ambition is to build its own manufacturing plant revolutionary device.

"I obtained patent in 1985, and learn is now under approval at the Institute of Thermal Engines in Graz- Austria. Approval has three stages, and I am now the last of them. As soon as I get set up a factory in Bacau mass production of the device, "he explained George Bordeianu.

Bacauan engineer is convinced that will not find anyone who is willing to invest in the construction of this factory, but it will do on your own.

Green car

Bordeianu George's invention did not remain only on paper. Race driver and put into practice the invention and go for years only with machines connected to it only with water or, if necessary, even with juice and urine.

"Any liquid containing hydrogen can be used as motor fuel. The device works with vinegar and cola, even with urine. It is environmentally friendly because it burns hydrogen and oxygen released into the air, "said inventor us. George Bordeianu has tested the car at RAR and results in pollutant emissions are zero, according aktual24.ro

Three liters of fluid going two months

Bordeianu George's car, a Cielo bought in Spain, used adoua not remain until fuel than every 60 days. "Any liquid would put the engine with three liters can go 5,000 kilometers. Car we mounted device before consuming 10 liters of gasoline per hundred kilometers ", explained Bordeianu.
Too bad there are no juicy (or dry - depending on your perspective) technical details of how this feat is achieved. It might as well be magic beans if commercialization or monetary renumeration is desired.

Here is a link to some more information on the vapor carburetors:
http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/ener ... age_id=785

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gclayjr
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by gclayjr »

kenssurplus,
Bacauan engineer is convinced that will not find anyone who is willing to invest in the construction of this factory, but it will do on your own.
Good opportunity for you and fellow believers to both become rich and make the world a better place. Also an opportunity, if you like, to visit beautiful Romania.

Hey while your there, check out Transylvania, and maybe you can find eternal life drinking blood :)

Regards,

Geroge
Last edited by gclayjr on May 29th, 2016, 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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gclayjr
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by gclayjr »

Kenssurplus,

It is almost 2:00 am here in Pa. I woke up with my conscience bothering me. I admit that I have been having fun with you over your obsession with this foolish idea of running cars on water. Then it occurred to me that Romanian inventors who have invented miracle cars that run on water, and cannot find anybody to fund the factory to build them is right up there with Nigerian princes who can't get their money out of the country and need your assistance to do so.

So Please, please, please do me a favor. If you or your friends actually do have any money that you could invest,. Don't invest it in this scam just because I taunted you.

Thank You,

George Clay

Teancum
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Re: The Lost Art of Automotive Tinkering - Cars as Disposable Appliances

Post by Teancum »

For those of you who are still interested in the advancement of knowledge and the improvement of our society via the internal combution engine, I have decided to cross post Skavy's entire post about this single piston engine development. It is rare information, so deserves a broader audience.

This is such a neat explanation of how things have worked for the last 50 years in supression of innovation when it comes to efficiency and technology:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable ... deeab10b66
The opposing pistons in one cylinder Engine - 80% Efficient!!!
I found this video on You Tube ( link below). I couldn't find anything about it it on Rex Research.

It doesn't seem to have much buzz, when in fact it seems so amazing !!

The brains behind it are very qualified. So I thought I would share it here. It was a little difficult to find this info.

Dr. Marius Paul, an American engineer having Romanian origin. In Romania he was the director of National Thermal Engine Institute from Bucharest (a very prestigious institution designing tank, marine and locomotive engines).

After his arrival in USA, Dr. Paul created a company named Engine Corporation of America which began to develop the first variants of the Paul Engine.

The US Army was immediately interested by his concept and funded an intensive development.The results were so impressive that the concept remained top secret for 20 years. Now his patents are available for civil development.

Mainly the Paul engine uses an innovative arrangement of the connecting rod – crankshaft mechanism having opposite-pistons, without cylinder head.


Back ground on Prof. Fred Major who is speaking in the video (below)

Professor Fred Major was the CEO of Energy Dynamics Corp.

His background is in aerospace missiles, he started working on that in 1975 developing the Air continental missile called the Atlas missile.

Helped in the Development of the missile technology in the USA.He talks in this video about lots of stuff including his work on the Dr.Marius Ana Paul engine. Really interesting stuff.

VIDEO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5xXBb_mrYc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


__________________________________________________ _____


The Dr. Paul Internal Combustion Engine – 80% Efficient!!!

Here is a time track verses subject matter Dr Fred Major address so you can jump to the juice parts.
__________________________________________________ ________

Timing
2:35 I want to talk about engines
2:43 in 1988 we won a contract from us Government DARPA agency
2:51-3:00 the challenge was to see if we can build and engine the is 50% efficient
3:00 the most efficient engine built is 30%.
7:40 the engine is a pressure vessel, poor pressure vessel.
9:20 End plate 39 engine head, 46 tear the bolts. Blew the engine stress
10:38 the problem is the way engine itself is built.
15:27 the problem is this head, very heavy especially on diesel, 20:1 pressure ratio 294 PSI. will break the engine.
17:00 head problem flat surface
17:30 all we did is solve the problem.
17:36 -18:00 we cut the head off , two pistons are opposed to each other .each piston acting as the compression port for the other, since the piston isn’t attached to the side walls you eliminated all of those stresses. You can pressurize it all what you want to pressurize it.
18:02 compression ratios (10:1 is actually 147 PSI ) while ( CR 30:1 is 4410 PSI ) , doesn’t fall apart since all pressure is on moving pistons.
19:28 eliminate the head
19:32 another problem connecting rods piston side friction
19:58 piston side friction pushes on side walls of the cylinder
20:10 elliptical cylinders
20:24 what we did two connecting rod to one piston, no pressure on cylinder.
21:08 to 21:25 single cylinder one liter 900 horse power
21:30 Normal engine 5 liter engine 300 horse power.
24:25 normal engine tank engine is about 11% Efficiency.
24:34 designed an engine uses all of the fuel ,
25:46 maximum horse powers not just 50% we got 80%
25:50 maximum thermo dynamics
26:25 the muscle car of the 70 where more Efficient than the engine of today
26:43 today’s engine is less Efficient
26:45 the car has become more efficient
27:20 car is more efficient but engine is less efficient
27:28 companies lies
27:41 catch 21 about engines they can’t get more out of it
29:35 trying to promote lets redesign the engine.
31:00 no pollution
32:07 Promoting cold exhaust so no infra red detection missile can target track it , too cooled.
_________________________________

Here is the patent
https://www.google.com/patents/US4872433" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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