Boy Scouts and LDS to split?

[zionminded]

A big question is this, is it possible for the LDS church to create a program that is as good as scouting?

[Joel]

Poll: Majority of Utah Mormons Want LDS Church to Leave the Boy Scouts

Nearly two-thirds of “very active” Utah members of the LDS Church believe their church leaders should separate from the Boy Scouts and start a new male youth organization, a UtahPolicy survey shows.

In a just-completed survey, pollster Dan Jones & Associates finds that 63 percent of those who termed themselves “very active” in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- both men and women -- say church leaders “definitely” or “probably” should drop the long-standing relationship with the Boy Scouts of America and start their own program for boys.

Jones finds that only 23 percent of “very active” Utah Mormons want their church to stay in the Boy Scout program, while 13 percent don’t know.

So, two-thirds say get out of the Boy Scouts, while one-fourth say stay in.





After the national Boy Scouts board voted several weeks ago to allow adult gay male scout leaders, a spokesman for the Mormon Church said its leaders – who traditionally take the month of August out of their Salt Lake City headquarters – would seriously consider the ramifications of the national organization’s decision, and later have a statement on where the LDS Church’s Boy Scouts programs would go.

The LDS Church is one of the largest Boy Scout troop organizers in the world, with hundreds of thousands of boys in thousands of ward troops.

The national Boy Scouts said it would be up to each troop – or group of troops – to decide for themselves whether to allow gay male troop leaders, and that religious organizations could place restrictions on who could serve as an adult scout leader.

Thus, the LDS Church would not have to allow gay troop leaders.

Under the current Mormon organization, worthy male Mormon men a “called” – or assigned – to be Boy Scout leaders.

And it is an unofficial responsibility of faithful Mormon boys to be active in Boy Scouts and seek the highest rank – Eagle Scout – to be reached before the boy is 18 and becomes a legal adult and can then go on a two-year mission for their church.

Gay Mormon men can be faithful members of the church and hold lay church assignments, as long as they don’t act on their homosexuality – in essence, stay chaste and practice sexual abstinence.

Jones polled 500 adult Utahns between Aug. 7-14; with a margin of error of plus or minus 4.99 percent.

Among all Utahns, Jones found that 32 percent favor the LDS Church staying in the Boy Scout program, 54 percent said church leaders should leave the Boy Scouts and form a new, separate organization for young men in their faith.

Among those who told Jones they are “somewhat active” in the LDS Church, 44 percent said stay in the scouts, 47 percent said get out and 9 percent didn’t know.

Those who said they were once active Mormons, but no longer practice the faith, 46 percent said stay in, 47 percent said get out of scouting, and 7 percent didn’t know.

Catholics said Mormons should stay in scouting, 47-42 percent; Protestants said get out, 28-49 percent; with those who said they have no religion said Mormons should remain in scouting, 46-32 percent.

The “very active” Mormons would be those who attend their church regularly, practice the faith’s doctrine and pay 10 percent of their gross incomes to the church – all of which allow those Mormons to attend their temples (closed to non-active Mormons) and participate in temple ceremonies.

Of course, LDS Church leaders don’t govern the faith by public opinion polls.

But they also likely attempt to take the pulse of faithful members on non-doctrinal matters such as membership in the Boy Scouts – which the Church has been closely tied to since the early 1900s.

Many of the church leaders, including President Thomas S. Monson, have been active in scouting. Monson holds the Scouts' highest honor – being named a Silver Beaver.

Here are some recent in-depth news stories about the LDS Church and the Boy Scouts, here, here and here.

[pjbrownie]

This poll as a bit like "leading the witness." It was taken after the Church's scatching rebuke to the National office in July--it's possible they're just following suit. On the other hand, there has always been a heavy dose of Brethrenites who don't want to follow the Brethren on this issue--I'd say somewhere around 50%.

[gkearney]

Looks like the church will stick with scouting:

Church to Go Forward with Scouting Program

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/c ... ng-program" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[investigator]

Here is a blog post discussing this issue.

http://www.totheremnant.com/2015/08/on- ... s-and.html

[Jason]

Just buying time...once the lawsuits start rolling in probably change again.

[creator]

Looks like the church will stick with scouting

Unfortunately.

[rewcox]

Vas es los???!!!

image.jpg (24.94 KiB) Viewed 1682 times

[rewcox]

Vas es los???!!!

image.jpg (24.94 KiB) Viewed 1684 times

[pjbrownie]

My sources say they are looking to tie BSA in internationally.

[gkearney]

My sources say they are looking to tie BSA in internationally.

Having worked in international scouting I think this would be very poorly received overseas. Scouting exists in nearly every nation on earth as distinct national scouting programs. To have the church adopt and impose onto the local youth an "American" program would likely engender ill feeling of "American imperialism" even in our closest friends. Binding our youth to the American version of scouting rather than their own national programs would be real trouble I suspect.

[h_p]

Looks like I'm going to become an official heretic. My son is just a project and several merit badges away from Eagle. He said he wants to finish, so I'm not going to pull him out, but I'm personally done. And, of course, I'm being accused of "not following the Brethren."

Grr, I think I just need to turn off the computer for a few days and calm down.

[rewcox]

Looks like I'm going to become an official heretic. My son is just a project and several merit badges away from Eagle. He said he wants to finish, so I'm not going to pull him out, but I'm personally done. And, of course, I'm being accused of "not following the Brethren."

Grr, I think I just need to turn off the computer for a few days and calm down.

I think that is a good decision on your part.

[Sirocco]

My sources say they are looking to tie BSA in internationally.

Having worked in international scouting I think this would be very poorly received overseas. Scouting exists in nearly every nation on earth as distinct national scouting programs. To have the church adopt and impose onto the local youth an "American" program would likely engender ill feeling of "American imperialism" even in our closest friends. Binding our youth to the American version of scouting rather than their own national programs would be real trouble I suspect.

Yeah it's different here in Canada and I would have not liked it to become Americanized.
We sing our anthem do our duty to the Queen, etc.
I dare say you Americans don't know how cold a winter camp can be :))

[theBruceGuy]

Scouting isn't carried out in most European countries by the Church. There are a few Church sponsored groups but they are the exception. The YM programs there have nothing to do with scouting and they are happy.

[samizdat]

A big question is this, is it possible for the LDS church to create a program that is as good as scouting?

They are in the process of doing so, but in a more global fashion. Called Duty to God and already in execution in Mexico.

[Sunain]

This is an extremely bad decision by the church. Guess I'm now an apostate for vehemently disagreeing the 'brethren' over this decision.

[samizdat]

My sources say they are looking to tie BSA in internationally.

Having worked in international scouting I think this would be very poorly received overseas. Scouting exists in nearly every nation on earth as distinct national scouting programs. To have the church adopt and impose onto the local youth an "American" program would likely engender ill feeling of "American imperialism" even in our closest friends. Binding our youth to the American version of scouting rather than their own national programs would be real trouble I suspect.

I concur with you here gkearney. There is already plenty of anti-American sentiment, even in neighboring countries. The better plan would be to expand upon Duty to God and introduce that from outside to America.

[markharr]

My sources say they are looking to tie BSA in internationally.

Having worked in international scouting I think this would be very poorly received overseas. Scouting exists in nearly every nation on earth as distinct national scouting programs. To have the church adopt and impose onto the local youth an "American" program would likely engender ill feeling of "American imperialism" even in our closest friends. Binding our youth to the American version of scouting rather than their own national programs would be real trouble I suspect.

Yeah it's different here in Canada and I would have not liked it to become Americanized.
We sing our anthem do our duty to the Queen, etc.
I dare say you Americans don't know how cold a winter camp can be :))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sinks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sunain]

Yeah it's different here in Canada and I would have not liked it to become Americanized.
We sing our anthem do our duty to the Queen, etc.
I dare say you Americans don't know how cold a winter camp can be :))

Hah yeah. I went on a few scout camps here where we had to make our own shelters (part of the badge requirement) and it was -30C outside.

[Sirocco]

Well for Canada take that and make it everywhere lol
Where I live it routinely drops to -40 below in winter, even when I lived in Toronto it could get quite cold. Montreal was far colder though.
I mean to compare "coldest temperatures" vs country we'd obviously win because we have the whole of the north.
I remember one year being in Ottawa and (with the wind chill) it reached -53C.
Recess when I was a kid wasn't stopped unless it got -30 below, though later on it went to -40 if I recall.

[Sirocco]

Yeah it's different here in Canada and I would have not liked it to become Americanized.
We sing our anthem do our duty to the Queen, etc.
I dare say you Americans don't know how cold a winter camp can be :))

Hah yeah. I went on a few scout camps here where we had to make our own shelters (part of the badge requirement) and it was -30C outside.

We did that to kill time, what did you use?
We used snow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinzhee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sunain]

Yeah it's different here in Canada and I would have not liked it to become Americanized.
We sing our anthem do our duty to the Queen, etc.
I dare say you Americans don't know how cold a winter camp can be :))

Hah yeah. I went on a few scout camps here where we had to make our own shelters (part of the badge requirement) and it was -30C outside.

We did that to kill time, what did you use?
We used snow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinzhee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yup, that exactly. Though we'd sometimes take a shortcut and find a really big snowbank and dig it out. :))

[EmmaLee]

A big question is this, is it possible for the LDS church to create a program that is as good as scouting?

They are in the process of doing so, but in a more global fashion. Called Duty to God and already in execution in Mexico.

The Duty to God program has been around a long time. Our sons started working on it in 2005 and are now all finished. It's an excellent program, and if they would just flesh it out and incorporate some of the good parts of the scouting program into it, that would be great. And tell the BSA to take a flying leap.

[Finally]

Here is a blog post discussing this issue.

http://www.totheremnant.com/2015/08/on- ... s-and.html

SHOCKING! Wait, I mean: Duh. The Church gets as much as it gives in prestige and worldly honor. There is no reason to expect a change of any type as exampled by today's statement.