Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
I applaud this decision.
I know this was a tough decision. Pres. Monson is very close to the scouting program. I am sure this was not easy for him.
I know this was a tough decision. Pres. Monson is very close to the scouting program. I am sure this was not easy for him.
- h_p
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2811
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
I was going to keep complaining, since the church is essentially going to be paying for nothing next year to an organization that I despise, but then I realized how much money we'll be saving overall by not having those bloated ward budgets for scouting anymore. I'll put this in the "win" column.
Hopefully, the rest will fall soon, and the BSA will collapse. They ceased being friends of the Church and conservative values a long time ago.
Hopefully, the rest will fall soon, and the BSA will collapse. They ceased being friends of the Church and conservative values a long time ago.
- JK4Woods
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2507
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
Phew!
I've been associated with Scouts for a number of years. Then I had a break for several more years. Last year I was drug back into it. (Luckily with the younger group).
For years the 14 yr old's and up have had no interest in merit badges... (Whats the point in basket weaving? Animal tracking? come on!).
And it's always been dumb to segregate out the 11 yr old's from the main body of scouting because of their age.
I can hardly stomach the program.... So what I plan to do is invite the boys over every week, and build a boat. A real boat, sixteen feet long. with rowing positions and later a motor. Something that will take an attention span and several months working with tools and thinking and learning.
Then when it's finished.... take it on an adventure down on the lake... and camp out.
I guarantee the boys will get better memories and life skills from building a boat than checking off endless lists of hour long accomplishments...
I've been associated with Scouts for a number of years. Then I had a break for several more years. Last year I was drug back into it. (Luckily with the younger group).
For years the 14 yr old's and up have had no interest in merit badges... (Whats the point in basket weaving? Animal tracking? come on!).
And it's always been dumb to segregate out the 11 yr old's from the main body of scouting because of their age.
I can hardly stomach the program.... So what I plan to do is invite the boys over every week, and build a boat. A real boat, sixteen feet long. with rowing positions and later a motor. Something that will take an attention span and several months working with tools and thinking and learning.
Then when it's finished.... take it on an adventure down on the lake... and camp out.
I guarantee the boys will get better memories and life skills from building a boat than checking off endless lists of hour long accomplishments...
- pjbrownie
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3070
- Location: Mount Pleasant, Utah
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
BEFORE you all celebrate, let's see if this new program works. My initial impression, not so much. If you think cleaning churchs and singing at old folks homes will stem the tide of inactivity, you're dreaming.
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 12983
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
This is not the last organization that will be damaged for the sensibilities of the left.
- kittycat51
- captain of 1,000
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- Location: Looking for Zion
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
Oh sour pickles. /:) Remember MOST of the Church around the world does not have the scouting program and they get along just fine. I'm sure here in the U.S. and Canada where we do have it, the 14-18 age boys will still be doing many of the same activities that they have previous. It just won't be in the name of Varsity Scouts. You have to know if you have boys, that when all else fails on YM night, they play basketball.
My varsity scouts are happy. :ymparty:
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5247
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
My only question is why did we have to find out on the news? Why didn't they announce this at Church last Sunday?
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4426
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
And I just convinced/persuaded my boys to obtain their Eagle Scout, regardless of the actions of the general BSA organization...
-Finrock
-Finrock
- kittycat51
- captain of 1,000
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- Location: Looking for Zion
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
All power to you and your boys. In our area, most boys have their Eagles by the time they turn 14 anyway so it won't have that big of an impact.
- captainfearnot
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1966
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
I was involved in my ward's rechartering not too long ago, and it seemed like a bit of a racket, as every Aaronic priesthood quorum was required to be chartered as its own unit. The Deacons' quorum was chartered as a Boy Scout Troop (with the 11-year-olds included), the Teachers' Quorum a Varsity Team, and the Priests' Quorum an Venturing Crew. It always felt like a kludgy way to map the BSA programs onto the Aaronic priesthood, and especially now that they've done away with Explorer Posts and the Venturing Crews are co-ed and start at 14 outside the church. But in LDS scouting they all function as Scout Troops anyway. Nobody in the church is running a true Varsity Team or Venture Crew the way they are intended by BSA.
So it makes sense to get rid of them and just register all the boys in scout troops. And those that get their Eagles by the time they're 14 can keep playing basketball in the cultural hall on Wednesday nights and planning water skiing trips as "high adventure" during the summer, just like always.
I don't see anything changing here, except for BSA getting less money from LDS in the form of rechartering fees.
So it makes sense to get rid of them and just register all the boys in scout troops. And those that get their Eagles by the time they're 14 can keep playing basketball in the cultural hall on Wednesday nights and planning water skiing trips as "high adventure" during the summer, just like always.
I don't see anything changing here, except for BSA getting less money from LDS in the form of rechartering fees.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2711
- Location: Canada
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
Yeah, they didn't go far enough. They needed to kill complete association with the Boy Scouts of America. Maybe after they get this new program up and running and iron out the problems. Glad they are finally doing this though. Maybe President Monson finally realized that scouting isn't the program we all grew up with.
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- captain of 100
- Posts: 454
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
I don't think it could be any worse. You can still do campouts and different adventure activities without the scouting portion. Maybe leaders now can focus on what the boys need as opposed to trying to do things for boys who don't want to do scouts and boys who don't want to but parents are making them with those who still want to. They boys who want to can still be registered and work on their eagle on their own and the leaders can focus on keeping those other boys in church. You will always see young men leave the church but I think this is the better way for the situation the church is in today.
- JK4Woods
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2507
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
kittycat51 wrote: ↑May 11th, 2017, 1:11 pmOh sour pickles. /:) Remember MOST of the Church around the world does not have the scouting program and they get along just fine. I'm sure here in the U.S. and Canada where we do have it, the 14-18 age boys will still be doing many of the same activities that they have previous. It just won't be in the name of Varsity Scouts. You have to know if you have boys, that when all else fails on YM night, they play basketball.
My varsity scouts are happy. :ymparty:
Anyone have any idea why the Church didn't extend Scouting all over the world? They could have taken it to all the world.
Scouting is everywhere except these six places:
Cuba.
North Korea.
China.
Laos.
Myanmar.
and Andorra
Why wasn't it promoted around the world among LDS congregations?
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3511
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
In Mexico Scouting is coed. So that was a non starter for Scouting in Mexico.
- h_p
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
Does the scouting org there not allow the local units to decide those kinds of things? That's the justification the church is using to stay with the BSA, at least: that we can still do our own thing.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3511
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
No, there is no autonomy in these decisions. Another thing is that they usually do their activities on Saturday and Sunday.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4426
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
Yeah, but it was quite the "battle" to convince/persuade them (some might even say "bribe" :)) ) and now once they find out that the Church is going to drop the Scouting program for 14 year olds and older, it might destroy any progress I was able to make. Well, we shall see.kittycat51 wrote: ↑May 11th, 2017, 1:32 pmAll power to you and your boys. In our area, most boys have their Eagles by the time they turn 14 anyway so it won't have that big of an impact.
-Finrock
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2711
- Location: Canada
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
I don't like the church's official news post Question and Answers. It feels too legal and safe rather than the truth. It feels deceptive almost to the point of lying. Christ had no issues calling out people for doing thing that were wrong.kittycat51 wrote: ↑May 11th, 2017, 10:04 am From the official Church newsroom website questions and answers: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/q ... en-program
Oh by the way.....HOORAY! :ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:
Having Young Men's and Young Women's separate until joint activities at 14 years of age has always been the church's stance.Is this a reaction to the news that the Boy Scouts of America is considering the inclusion of girls and young women in its programs?
Church leaders learned just recently about the BSA’s intent to consider including girls and young women in Scouting. Our decision to end our participation in the Varsity and Venturing programs was made independent of this possibility and before that time. We anticipate our Cub Scout and Boy Scout units will continue as they are at present.
Special Mutual Activities
Occasionally, larger Mutual activities may be planned to meet a special need or gather a larger number of youth together. These activities are carefully planned under the direction of the priesthood. The bishopric or stake presidency determines to what extent youth under 14 may participate in special Mutual activities. These leaders consider such factors as late hours, the subject of the discussion, the nature of the activity, and the maturity of the participants.
Leaders ensure that activities are appropriate for the participants’ ages and maturity, involve minimal risk, and allow all young men and young women to participate as fully as possible.
https://www.lds.org/callings/aaronic-pr ... s?lang=eng
With the change to allow gays, transgendered and women into the scouting program, it is no longer compatible with the young men's program of the church which was scouting.Is this due to changes in Scout policy in the past few years to allow gay and transgender Scouts and leaders?
The BSA has always allowed the Church to operate its programs in ways that are consistent with our standards and beliefs, and they have been very supportive. This change is to address the needs of young men ages 14 to 18. The Church is always evaluating what is best for our youth and families, and will continue to do so.
- SmallFarm
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
9/10 comments I see on social media are happy about this,kittycat51 wrote: ↑May 11th, 2017, 10:04 am From the official Church newsroom website questions and answers: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/q ... en-program
Oh by the way.....HOORAY! :ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:
- h_p
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2811
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
From the Deseret News article:
From the mormonnewsroom Q&A:Since 1931, an LDS apostle has served on the BSA's National Executive Board. LDS Church President Thomas S. Monson, who holds Scouting's highest honor has been a member of the BSA National Executive Board for 47 years.
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is currently on the BSA's national board along with Brother Stephen W. Owen, the general Young Men president, and Sister Joy D. Jones, the general Primary president.
The current national commissioner of the BSA is Charles Dahlquist, a former general Young Men president in the church and a former member of the General Church Scouting Committee.
Why is it that every time the BSA decides to make big changes like this, the Church is the last to know?Church leaders learned just recently about the BSA’s intent to consider including girls and young women in Scouting.
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10884
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
Great question - I've wondered about that, as well. The rest of the world has been reading about this (allowing girls and young women in the BSA) for quite awhile now - at least anyone with access to the internet. Maybe the Church's "just recently" is using the Lord's time?
Having said that, I'm thrilled the Church is peeling away from the BSA - even if they're still sadly PC about it all.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
I know I'll catch hell for this but I don't think the cub/boy scout program was ever any good, period.
Mainly for this reason here:
"Can young men in these age groups continue to earn the Eagle Scout award?
Yes. Young men who desire to continue toward the rank of Eagle will be registered, supported and encouraged. It is important to remember that only those young men who are properly registered are eligible to be awarded merit badges and rank advancements".
So my question is, has anyone ever run across in the scriptures of anyone receiving " merit badges" or "awards" in the flesh from anybody for that matter?
This is one of the scriptures that I think directly applys:
Mathew 6:
1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
Infact read the whole chapter, the whole chapter goes along with this theme, that is our Saviour speaking, (Who everyone thinks they adore). And no I have not ever participated in boy scouts or my children.
I have tried to teach my children to avoid the "rewards" the "flattery" the "accolades" of mankind and instead to build up that account in heaven. If you notice the Saviour himself rebuked the person that called Him "good Master",,,,, why? As an example for the rest of us.
Mainly for this reason here:
"Can young men in these age groups continue to earn the Eagle Scout award?
Yes. Young men who desire to continue toward the rank of Eagle will be registered, supported and encouraged. It is important to remember that only those young men who are properly registered are eligible to be awarded merit badges and rank advancements".
So my question is, has anyone ever run across in the scriptures of anyone receiving " merit badges" or "awards" in the flesh from anybody for that matter?
This is one of the scriptures that I think directly applys:
Mathew 6:
1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
Infact read the whole chapter, the whole chapter goes along with this theme, that is our Saviour speaking, (Who everyone thinks they adore). And no I have not ever participated in boy scouts or my children.
I have tried to teach my children to avoid the "rewards" the "flattery" the "accolades" of mankind and instead to build up that account in heaven. If you notice the Saviour himself rebuked the person that called Him "good Master",,,,, why? As an example for the rest of us.
- shadow
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 10542
- Location: St. George
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
So earning a merit badge is bad because it's a reward? I guess going to work to earn a paycheck is bad too since it has it's reward.
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 9831
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
In most parts of the world, scouting is coed.
For some reason, I remember going to YM on Wednesday nights, and scouting on Thursday nights.
People can't afford two nights a week for YM.
Scouting took the place of YM--which got them merit badges in secular things, but made it hard for them to match the YW spiritually (remember those GC talks about the YW being better?).
For those who couldn't afford all the clothes and trappings and dues, etc., or who didn't like scouts, or whose parents didn't like scouts, had NO YM for 6 years of their life.
They were often also ostracized from the other YM.
So yes, I am very, very, very glad to hear it. My main concern is the same as my concern with YM/YM lessons and YM/YW Sunday School lessons--there won't be much of a program, and what there is will be left up to the leaders, and it won't be run very well at all, with little oversight. At least scouting has about three levels of oversight.
I'm worried "more time for the members" will end up with 80% choosing worse, and 20% choosing better or best.
For some reason, I remember going to YM on Wednesday nights, and scouting on Thursday nights.
People can't afford two nights a week for YM.
Scouting took the place of YM--which got them merit badges in secular things, but made it hard for them to match the YW spiritually (remember those GC talks about the YW being better?).
For those who couldn't afford all the clothes and trappings and dues, etc., or who didn't like scouts, or whose parents didn't like scouts, had NO YM for 6 years of their life.
They were often also ostracized from the other YM.
So yes, I am very, very, very glad to hear it. My main concern is the same as my concern with YM/YM lessons and YM/YW Sunday School lessons--there won't be much of a program, and what there is will be left up to the leaders, and it won't be run very well at all, with little oversight. At least scouting has about three levels of oversight.
I'm worried "more time for the members" will end up with 80% choosing worse, and 20% choosing better or best.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4066
- Location: Vineyard, Utah
Re: Boy Scouts and LDS to split?
I'm going to assume your question is sincere.
We are taught in church that we should pursue an education, that we should not drop out of school but earn a diploma.
We are taught that we should pursue an education beyond secondary school.
Young women are taught that they should pursue and earn their young women medallion.
We are taught that we should always have a current temple recommend.
But none of these things are explicitly stated in scripture.
In the Boy Scouts boys learn important basic skills such as first aid, as they pursue merit badges they are exposed to a wide variety of potential professions - and even required to discuss careers in the field of each merit badge subject, they learn leadership skills, and there are many other benefits. Earning the Eagle Scout rank also provides benefits in life: advanced rank upon enlistment for those joining the military, scholarship opportunities, and often preferential treatment when pursuing a first career job.
If you decide that the pursuit of Eagle Scout is irrelevant because it doesn't appear in the Bible or Book of Mormon, you can ignore any duty to participate in home or visiting teaching. Since the phrases "home teach," "visit teach," "home teaching," "visiting teaching," "home teacher," and "visiting teacher" do not exist in the scripture you can dismiss home and visiting teaching just as easily as you dismiss the pursuit of Eagle Scout.
I wonder if anybody has the audacity to expect they can go before their savior with a clean conscience and say, "Sure, your prophet on earth said to participate in Boy Scouts and home or visiting teaching, but that wasn't explicitly stated in the scripture so it obviously wasn't expected of me."
Please point out the chapter and verse of scripture that discusses receiving a secondary education, a diploma, a university or technical school education, a temple recommend, or a young women medallion.
We are taught in church that we should pursue an education, that we should not drop out of school but earn a diploma.
We are taught that we should pursue an education beyond secondary school.
Young women are taught that they should pursue and earn their young women medallion.
We are taught that we should always have a current temple recommend.
But none of these things are explicitly stated in scripture.
In the Boy Scouts boys learn important basic skills such as first aid, as they pursue merit badges they are exposed to a wide variety of potential professions - and even required to discuss careers in the field of each merit badge subject, they learn leadership skills, and there are many other benefits. Earning the Eagle Scout rank also provides benefits in life: advanced rank upon enlistment for those joining the military, scholarship opportunities, and often preferential treatment when pursuing a first career job.
If you decide that the pursuit of Eagle Scout is irrelevant because it doesn't appear in the Bible or Book of Mormon, you can ignore any duty to participate in home or visiting teaching. Since the phrases "home teach," "visit teach," "home teaching," "visiting teaching," "home teacher," and "visiting teacher" do not exist in the scripture you can dismiss home and visiting teaching just as easily as you dismiss the pursuit of Eagle Scout.
I wonder if anybody has the audacity to expect they can go before their savior with a clean conscience and say, "Sure, your prophet on earth said to participate in Boy Scouts and home or visiting teaching, but that wasn't explicitly stated in the scripture so it obviously wasn't expected of me."