Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
ChowMein
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by ChowMein »

My baptism is coming up. We had to reschedule it due to logistics, family members passing, etc... The ward that I attend is about 90% African American and very strong in their faith and practice of it. There are young men that are going on missions... its cool. The Bishop is also African American. A very good man that is strong! I mean, this guy is inspirational. I have some close friends that live in UT. that want me to record it on my cell for them due to its "their words not mine" historical nature. To me, he is a good man, a cool guy, and my Bishop. :)

I grew up in what might of well been a one parent home... usually a no parent home. We grew up on food stamps and welfare, gov't subsidised housing, ...and all the yada-yada that come with it. Some, not all, of these kids are as well. I see in them such strength, strength that does not come from an easy life of bon-bons and coffee cakes. Some of these guys get themselves up and go to school on their own with no parental supervision. They have a special part of Sunday when they address their issues with the Bishop, and they work on solutions. Issues are wonderful, in that in a realistic world, we have then a few moments before we have the opportunity to quickly move to a solution. These guys, these ladies are in high school, setting goals and doing the best they can to move forward. And they are doing so not as crying individuals on their knees with their hands out but as individuals that are strong inside, pushing to the top. Man, the gospel is something that is not just for the next life, but it empowers us in every way in this life on a daily basis. I am realistically excited about the ward I will be in. THere are so many areas to push against the issues, and share, and fight shoulder to shoulder with others for their success. And by that act, my own.

I never knew that being a retired Union Organizer would be so useful, so exciting and so life changing! Get down Moroni!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJhf4zK_RKA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chow Mein!! I K Rico!!

jwharton
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by jwharton »

I really appreciate the sentiments and intent of the OP.

It isn't my wish to say I disagree with them at all.
I wish to simply add in why I believe many go beyond the boundaries.
We have in scripture an example of God going beyond these boundaries.

If things get too far askew from where they need to be, I honestly believe some things need to be torn down at times.

This is precisely why when the early saints were neglectful and did not keep the Father's commandments they were put under condemnation.
When something is put under condemnation the implication is that there are some things that stand to be torn down before progress will continue.
There are many here who have their finger on the pulse of what has the church under condemnation and who are wishing to cure those issues.
Others here are oblivious to these aspects, and some willfully so, who take these efforts as trying to destroy the church rather than qualify it for exaltation in the Father's Kingdom in its rightful place.

If you were under any personal condemnation and had aspects of your character, beliefs, etc. that were damning you, wouldn't you wish to have them cleared away and rectified? If you were in denial of them and had your self in a state of blind self-righteousness, to what extent would you want someone to go to puncture your bubble of your false sense of security? And, if you are your brother's keeper, to what extent would you be willing to go to give someone a chance to catch a glimpse of what could eventually serve as a catalyst to help someone see where they are damning themselves?

The important thing to bear in mind is look at the underlying trajectory of the principles the person is championing.

Many here have beneath their wranglings "All is well in Zion", and to some extent people will be more inclined to filter things thus, per your OP.
But, our level of spiritual maturity must go above and beyond needing to be coddled and pampered into a feel-good only perspective of things.
There are some things that do indeed need to be torn down in order to make room for the Father's Kingdom to be resting upon a firm foundation.

Let me give an analogy. I'm currently in the process of making repairs to a home I purchased that had two portions of it with a fake foundation. There were railroad ties laying flat on the surface covered with a thin layer of concrete to make them look like a proper stem wall. I understand what the necessity of this was for and it was reasonable for it to be this way and it held out sufficiently for a time, but now the time has come for the foundation to be fully rectified and made worthy so that it can be sold with conventional financing. The house needs to be made acceptable to the standards required. In the process of doing this I am undermining every part of the house where the foundation needs to be addressed. Care has been taken to undermine strategically so that I put in the new temporary supports at the fuller depth I am going to go with it. Once each temporary support is in place then I can undermine even more and so on until the entire portion of the house needing the new foundation has proper support while leaving room for all of the cement work to proceed. Once the cement work is done then the temporary supports can be replaced with permanent supports. To some this will look like I am destroying things and that I am being foolish and that I should have just left things alone because an inspector likely wouldn't have realized the false foundation was what it was. I could have just avoided all of this unpleasant work and maintained the deception. I could have justified it because what was there was actually a good and functional foundation for what was needed, it just wasn't suitable for the standards required. But, this would have required me to join in with the lie, and this I will not do. I will tear down all that is not acceptable and rectify what needs to be rectified so that when this home is sold I will truly be acceptable and sold with honesty and integrity. And, when I do it, I tear down all that is unacceptable so that it can be properly rectified. I take all necessary measures to insure that the demolition will be as safe and non-invasive as possible so that the main structure keeps its full integrity and is preserved in its purposes fully.

This is currently the process we are in as a church. We have serious issues awry in the eyes of the Father that have us currently under condemnation. At some point He is going to set His hand to rectify these issues. This will require what will be in many people's eyes an undermining of what is currently there that seems fully adequate. They won't really have the level of understanding that helps them see that this work is being done in such a way to make the church worthy and qualified for Celestial Glory. They won't recognize that in His wisdom He has put in temporary supports to allow for the undermining to take place in a safe manner that will ultimately enable things to reach their full goal and potential. When this time comes that the Father does commence this labor to redeem Zion He will undermine and tear down and demolish some aspects of things that we may not see the wisdom in. Therefore, before we accuse those who serve Him in these labors, let us make a full evaluation of what their long-term end goal actually is. In doing this, it should be much easier to discern if it is someone seeking full rectification of our state of condemnation or if it is someone who is just bitter and seeking to destroy with no real purpose of cleansing and setting things in order.

natasha
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by natasha »

In respect to all of this thread....my Mom use to always say to me "words that are spoken are light as air, words that are written are always there."...and she meant this as a caution regarding what we write. It would behoove all of us to carefully consider the things that we write....make them words that we would feel comfortable "eating" the next day.

kt6r
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by kt6r »

I want to applaud and thank all those who do not respond to our present day crises with shameful, cowardly silence. Everyone should be anxiously engaged in a good cause without being commanded. Anyone who believes the D&C is the word of God knows that. Anyone who believes the Book of Mormon is Holy Scripture knows that the Secret Combinations of our day have grown and grown and prospered without opposition--except for John Birch Society (JBS) members. Tragically, JBS has too few members and too few funds to win anytime soon. The silence in our present day is just horrific when one is aware of the very steep decline in American culture and diminishing liberty. It is business as usual for most American citizens. Does that include LDS church members. It most definitely does include them as most are wallowing in disbelief about the existence and strength of the Secret Combinations. Moroni must be weeping as the days go by. See Ether 8:18-26.

pillhead
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by pillhead »

Well said; and I absolutely agree. We are real people behind these posts. With real concerns. We should all be kind to everyone.

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Durzan
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Durzan »

kt6r wrote:I want to applaud and thank all those who do not respond to our present day crises with shameful, cowardly silence. Everyone should be anxiously engaged in a good cause without being commanded. Anyone who believes the D&C is the word of God knows that. Anyone who believes the Book of Mormon is Holy Scripture knows that the Secret Combinations of our day have grown and grown and prospered without opposition--except for John Birch Society (JBS) members. Tragically, JBS has too few members and too few funds to win anytime soon. The silence in our present day is just horrific when one is aware of the very steep decline in American culture and diminishing liberty. It is business as usual for most American citizens. Does that include LDS church members. It most definitely does include them as most are wallowing in disbelief about the existence and strength of the Secret Combinations. Moroni must be weeping as the days go by. See Ether 8:18-26.
Who said silence was cowardly? I am not silent because I am a coward, but because I get fired up about the most trivial things. If I get really mad when I fumble a football or drop a piece of toast, how do you think I'd react if I were to actively engage in fighting against the evil powers that exist today? And thats assuming that I have even been silent on the matter (I get pretty vocal around my peers when ticked). As long as my morals arn't compromised, and I sustain the General Authorities, then I am on the right track.

Honestly, I feel that this particular battle isn't one that I am supposed to fight, other than the occasional backing of support, and the occasional verbal skirmish with peers. At this point, I've stopped caring about where society is now, and have started looking to a brighter future. I've got the endgame in mind, and focusing on the here and now would only serve to depress me. This society is already starting to collapse, and fighting said collapse will only delay the inevitable, or may even help speed it up. My time to fight, hasn't come yet and takes place much later, actively standing against the darkness today won't really help me prepare for fighting the greater darkness that is to come, but I can stand against it passively. All I can do now is live the life that God would want be to live, and seek to do so in the best manner I can. That is being engaged in a good cause.

Ezra
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Ezra »

Durzan wrote:
kt6r wrote:I want to applaud and thank all those who do not respond to our present day crises with shameful, cowardly silence. Everyone should be anxiously engaged in a good cause without being commanded. Anyone who believes the D&C is the word of God knows that. Anyone who believes the Book of Mormon is Holy Scripture knows that the Secret Combinations of our day have grown and grown and prospered without opposition--except for John Birch Society (JBS) members. Tragically, JBS has too few members and too few funds to win anytime soon. The silence in our present day is just horrific when one is aware of the very steep decline in American culture and diminishing liberty. It is business as usual for most American citizens. Does that include LDS church members. It most definitely does include them as most are wallowing in disbelief about the existence and strength of the Secret Combinations. Moroni must be weeping as the days go by. See Ether 8:18-26.
Who said silence was cowardly? I am not silent because I am a coward, but because I get fired up about the most trivial things. If I get really mad when I fumble a football or drop a piece of toast, how do you think I'd react if I were to actively engage in fighting against the evil powers that exist today? And thats assuming that I have even been silent on the matter (I get pretty vocal around my peers when ticked). As long as my morals arn't compromised, and I sustain the General Authorities, then I am on the right track.

Honestly, I feel that this particular battle isn't one that I am supposed to fight, other than the occasional backing of support, and the occasional verbal skirmish with peers. At this point, I've stopped caring about where society is now, and have started looking to a brighter future. I've got the endgame in mind, and focusing on the here and now would only serve to depress me. This society is already starting to collapse, and fighting said collapse will only delay the inevitable, or may even help speed it up. My time to fight, hasn't come yet and takes place much later, actively standing against the darkness today won't really help me prepare for fighting the greater darkness that is to come, but I can stand against it passively. All I can do now is live the life that God would want be to live, and seek to do so in the best manner I can. That is being engaged in a good cause.
Your giving a lot of power to a non existent thing.

You have complete control of you. Your above statement is full of you passing the buck to an outside non existent thing.

What people say and do what the world says and does what governments say and do. Has no barring on how you act and respond. Only you do. You choose to become depressed. You choose to get angry. You choose to do everything.

Thinking that some one or something is the source of how you react is a complete lie.

I do not have the power to make you happy or sad or mad or anything. And neither does anyone else. Only you have that power to choose those things for yourself.

If you get mad sad depressed your the only one to blame. If you get happy joyful and so on. You are the only one who is to blame for that as well.

We create our environment. The environment does not create us. We are not a product of our environment or situation. We are a product of what we choose.

I'm just saying this because it's not a fun place to be in your head space. I don't know if you have ever heard the phrase of. (If you say you can or cannot your right. Tell you change your mind.)

As long as you place control over your feelings and emotions on outside sources. That choice gives them control over you.

As soon as you take control of those things and start looking at the only place that you can find true happiness. Which is inside yourself. You will never find it. Only fleeting glimpses. Only short sporadic spans of it.

When you take control you will be amazed at what happens. And probley suprised how often you revert back to the old way of thinking tell you get the hang of it.

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by A Random Phrase »

Ezra wrote: Thinking that some one or something is the source of how you react is a complete lie.
Having been in a space where I could not control how I react, I would like to address this (the idea, not Ezra). One the one hand, what was said in the post is true, and I think Ezra is holding out hope to someone in pain. On the other hand, to someone caught in the inability to control his/her own reactions, it seems impossible. And it actually is impossible at that moment.

I have heard well-meaning people state that "no one can make you angry without your consent," in such a way that shows a lack of compassion for those who struggle with anger. The same could be said for eating too much sugar, or jealousy, or pride, and so on and so forth.

I think that refusing to get sucked into issues that you know cause such reactions as Durzan mentions s/he has is a very good start. It can take years to overcome anger or jealousy or pride or fear or physical addictions (sugar, alcohol, tobacco, etc.).

While it is good to hold out hope that it is possible to be different, I think we have a tendency to blame the person with the "defect" for having it, thus being totally blind to our own defects. (We "sin differently.")

I'm not saying you were lacking compassion, Ezra. To me, reading your whole post, you were holding out hope that it is possible to be different. I don't know if Durzan would agree with me or not though. He/she knows their own weaknesses and how to deal with them better than I know them.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out how it may look from those stuck in thoughts that others dismiss as "you don't have to act/think/be that way, you know."

It's like this: I have many defects that most people would look at and say, "You've got to be kidding me? You can't do that/handle that?!! Even a baby could do better. You're just lazy, wicked, [other epithet]." Yet, at the same time, they see a spider and freak out. They've got to grab a can of poison to do the spider in, even though the bug spray is toxic to people and pets. But they can't squish the spider; they're too afraid. I can squish the spider. If I have a knowledge that the spider is not poisonous, I can catch it with my bare hands and put it in a different place. I can catch a cricket with my bare hands and put it outside.

But I don't criticize these people for being afraid of something that I don't comprehend being afraid of [I'm not saying Ezra was being critical]. Because I know that most people will not return the favor, I keep my mouth shut about my defects that "Anyone can do, so why can't you?".

Ezra
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Ezra »

I hear what your saying and agree. Thinking can be a wonderful thing or harmful depending on what and how your thinking.

To train my brain to not give control of my thoughts and feelings to outside sources. was not an easy task but well worth it.

Learning how to meditate on clearing my thoughts. Or to meditate on not thinking. Have a blank mind. That exercise really helped to find the control to then choose my thoughts. Not just let my mind run free with bad and negitive thoughts. Not to have the constant train wreck of thought that naturally happens. But to be in control and direct my thoughts.
Keep out the negitive and keep the good.

A unexamined life is not worth living Plato.

And I think that an unexamined thought process is the same.

The difference from being a natural man and living on a higher plain.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

I see this Forum as a place to freely exchange beliefs on Mormonism. Not that all who come here are LDS or members of the LDS Church, as I myself am one who is not, yet I have felt welcome.

If one states their testimony of the Church or its leaders, I have no comment, as it is their testimony. If one however states that they believe they cannot be lead astray, or scripturally speaking they think the church is the kingdom of G_d, Zion, the final work of G_d among men, or such, I will attempt to point out the doctrines or scriptures that point to the contrary for their consideration. I do have a testimony of the Messiah and His Father, and of the foundations of Mormonism.

I do not always make my points clear, and when someone refuses to understand what I am saying intentionally, I have not always continued to respond respectfully. It has been good for me to work on my patience here with others, in this somewhat unpersonable form of communication.

I have and do delight in helping others find answers to spiritual questions. Being able to bless others is the largest motivation as to why I post here. However, so many want to have their egos stroked who post here and to be told they are wise. I really do not care if people agree or believe me. It is not a ego thing for me, I am not looking for a following or groupies. I love truths, eternal truths, and I love conversing with other who have similar passions.

I have been blessed many many times for reading posts on this forum. I have made friends, and hopefully I have blessed many here in return with posts I have posted. I believe very differently from most who post here. I feel that is a blessing for if we were all singing to the choir, no one would be blessed.

Shalom

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Durzan
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Durzan »

I must say that I do feel the spirit quite a bit when I am reading posts or commenting on here.

Joy N Wisdom
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Joy N Wisdom »

THEY SAY THAT " HURT PEOPLE , HURT PEOPLE " . JESUS NEVER FORGAVE WHO? THE PHARISEES cause they knew the truth, & FORGIVE THOSE WHO KNOW NOT SEVEN TIMES SEVEN . They did a poll and found out that if people ask for help then people were nicer to them and trusted them more, because why? EGO , Self-esteem, perhaps

Joy N Wisdom
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Joy N Wisdom »

HEY I'm new, but have been reading these post for over a decade seems like. I think were all growing yes & learning from each other yes, and this is a very good list or post, and I am really happy to see people like you saying different viewpoints that run thru my mind and emotions.This is my therapy. Moral support. Motivation. Balance ETC ETC THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU and GOD BLESS

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Alaris
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Alaris »

I believe that one of the devil's greatest victories is one most people (in general) are unaware of. People tend to make declarations without much thought let alone careful study and consideration. They take sides and state how things are. A good example of this is people who take sides in a presidential contest without really studying the candidate. We LDS experience this when we are dismissed based off lies about our church--lies that can be easily proven false. But too late! The uninformed person has already made their ardent declaration based off little to no information and have married their pride to their statements. And therein lies the subtle yet powerful victory of the devil. It is powerful because it is embedded in our culture--how we interact with others. It is subtle because few are aware of it and most see the ability to argue their POV as a strength rather than as a weakness and inability to be taught and learn something new. Admitting when one is wrong is viewed as a weakness when it is indeed the core of the gospel. The devil is laughing at us collectively.

I'm still new here but I've seen this attitude abound where posters make declarations sometimes vehemently and then another poster makes an equally passionate counter and both have married their pride to their declarations. This is a tremendous source of contention and an enemy to learning something new.

None of us know anything of any significant measure compared to the great creator of all things. Let us try to treat each other the way we want to be treated and show some respect--ESPECIALLY if we disagree.

I am far from perfect at this but I am trying to be better.

onefour1
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by onefour1 »

Everyone wants to be befriended, loved, and accepted by others. This gives man a sense of self worth and dignity. It give man hope and a purpose that life is worth living. We as Latter-day Saints can become an army of hope givers that enrich and enliven the lives of others. All we have to do is care for others through our thoughts and actions. As others have pointed out, this is the essence of charity which is the greatest of all attributes. I know by personal experience, as I am sure all of you do as well, that when we are in the service of our fellowman we feel the love of God in our hearts. We experience a change of heart and our hearts are filled with love. Only when others see the love that we give, will they open their hearts to the perfect examples of charity, even God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Although the actions of others may be contrary to God or our personal code of conduct, this does not mean that we should think of them as less than sons and daughters of a loving heavenly Father. For we are all sinners and we should seek after their eternal welfare and not write them off as losers. We should do unto them as we would have them do unto us. We should befriend them and set the example. This does not mean that we should accept their sins and coddle them in their sins. We should not participate in any wicked or unholy practice. We should keep ourselves clean and be a light to those who are around us. We should not be easily offended but know and understand that by taking a Christ like attitude and turning the other cheek is the best course of action. This can be difficult at times because we get our feelings hurt and like others, we too need to be befriended, loved, and accepted by others. But we must find strength is the greatest of friends, even God the Father and Jesus Christ. Thus the first and greatest commandment is to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. Only by doing this can we properly love others in the true spirit of love. Let us look at each person as not only special in God's eyes, but in our own eyes as well. Only then will we have the true spirit of the Lord and charity which never fails.

lundbaek
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by lundbaek »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Wi ... nce_People" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

freedomforall
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by freedomforall »

How do we go about building up Obama, Hillary or even Trump? How about those that assassinated Lavoy Finicum? How about the secret combinations in high places, or members of the church that ignored the counsel to learn the Constitution and help preserve it? How do we build up those bent on destroying America, and enslaving the righteous and those who do not know any better?
How about exed people that come on the forum to gripe and grumble? How about those that teach false doctrine and mock church leaders in various ways? How about those that are confused as to what the true meaning of "arm of flesh" is, and that by following the counsel of church leadership, is to follow the arm of flesh?
How about those who are professed believers who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church? http://www.dictionary.com/browse/heretic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I respectfully ask, who are the "others?"

Cen
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Cen »

Whoever reads these words is completely covered in the blood of Jesus the christ...
-------------

16 years since He called me to mature in spirit and truth. What i didnt know then was how much of a relationship we already had without me being conscious of it. Or what was to come. But not anymore.


If you can handle being in a room with Them and not freaking out, then i would call you mature and i consider you a brother and/or sister. And i would love to get acquainted. Rev. 3:24 or 22:14 are not only for after, overcoming can be fulfilled here and now. And if i can do it and understand it: of the thousands i have met and learned from throughout this time, many are close, they just need to pursue that and Them as if their family and lives depended on it...this should be priority number one. Then knowledge, but to the heart, then it is second nature and thus a lifestyle. A Godly lifestyle...

So lets build.

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Warrior Of Jah
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Warrior Of Jah »

I can not understand how someone the received a testimony of truth could after fight against the truth, and say negative things about the church, the dear presidet monson and the book o mormon or the brother joseph, is impossiblemto understand and forgive that people, this gus must have them names casted off from the book of life, i just remember a quote of the brother Joseph that he never said he was perfect, but there no wrong in the gospel taught by him

Zion2080
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Zion2080 »

Warrior Of Jah wrote:I can not understand how someone the received a testimony of truth could after fight against the truth, and say negative things about the church, the dear presidet monson and the book o mormon or the brother joseph, is impossiblemto understand and forgive that people, this gus must have them names casted off from the book of life, i just remember a quote of the brother Joseph that he never said he was perfect, but there no wrong in the gospel taught by him


I think they are called the "Sons of Perdition." People who have committed the unpardonable sin of receiving the holy ghost, etc. and then denying it.



Baysimove
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Re: Have you ever stopped to consider... (building others up instead of tearing them down)

Post by Baysimove »

Hi! I love to be surrounded with positive people that speaks for hope of life. Being a Christian, I want those people that needed help spiritually to lift them up and tear them down. These people needs help and encouragement, by my own little way I can inspire them and give them hope.

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