Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

[Joel]

God actually does not use force in getting His children to obey. Casting Lucifer and his followers out did not force them to obey.

Right, he doesn't use force to get you to obey, but he will use force to apply a punishment for disobedience. (He won't force you into heaven but He might force you out)

Reminds me of this pic:

[Tony]

God actually does not use force in getting His children to obey. Casting Lucifer and his followers out did not force them to obey.

Right, he doesn't use force to get you to obey, but he will use force to apply a punishment for disobedience. (He won't force you into heaven but He might force you out)

Reminds me of this pic:

We are the ones who are supposed to knock.

Matthew 7:7
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

2 Nephi 32:4
4 Wherefore, now after I have spoken these words, if ye cannot understand them it will be because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark.

3 Nephi 14:7
7 Ask, and it shall be given unto you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

3 Nephi 27:29
29 Therefore, ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you; for he that asketh, receiveth; and unto him that knocketh, it shall be opened.

Doctrine and Covenants 6:5
5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 11:5
5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 12:5
5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 14:5
5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 49:26
26 Behold, I say unto you, go forth as I have commanded you; repent of all your sins; ask and ye shall receive; knock and it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 66:9
9 Lay your hands upon the sick, and they shall recover. Return not till I, the Lord, shall send you. Be patient in affliction. Ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Doctrine and Covenants 75:27
27 Let them ask and they shall receive, knock and it shall be opened unto them, and be made known from on high, even by the Comforter, whither they shall go.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:63
63 Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you; seek me diligently and ye shall find me; ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

The only scripture that has the Savior knocking is Revelation 3:20
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[Rose Garden]

God actually does not use force in getting His children to obey. Casting Lucifer and his followers out did not force them to obey.

Right, he doesn't use force to get you to obey, but he will use force to apply a punishment for disobedience. (He won't force you into heaven but He might force you out)

Did you miss my question, Brian, or are you ignoring it?

[wildad]

Thank you Brian. I was beginning to think the site should be renamed freedomfromldsforum to more accurately reflect the spirit of apostasy which seems to have crept in over the last little while. Hopefully this will be a step in the right direction to show that I was wrong in that thought.

Amen and amen!

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Something we all can understand a little better.

Does knowledge = truth? or is truth, truth no matter what we think?

[creator]

Now that I've finally got around to reading the rules, I have a question, Brian. Do you mind defining the gospel of Jesus Christ so we can be clear on what is acceptable and what is not?

I didn't see your question until now. Hmmm... ok, it's so broad, but here goes.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ (according to me):

Quoting from the lds.org Bible Dictionary: "The word gospel means 'good news.' The good news is that Jesus Christ has made a perfect atonement for mankind that will redeem all mankind from the grave and reward each individual according to his or her works." That's a good starting point. Beyond that, I believe that the Gospel encompasses all truth and light. For example, it includes the principles of Liberty and the proper role of government. It includes correct principles regarding health, education, etc. The whole point of the Gospel, to me, in addition to recognizing Christ's role in our ability to obtain salvation and eternal life, is that Gospel is all about the good things that we must understand and do in order to partake of the heavenly gift.

The difficult part of this is that we don't all agree on what things are truth. Hence, the need for rules and expectations about behavior and respect towards each other. Some of the rules are in place to attempt a contention-free discussion.

[creator]

Does knowledge = truth? or is truth, truth no matter what we think?

Truth is truth no matter what we think. We should have the goal of aligning ourselves with the truth.

[marc]

Truth=Light. Truth≠Knowledge. Knowledge is merely one's comprehension of truth according to the light he is exposed to or receives (further light and knowledge).

[marc]

We are the ones who are supposed to knock.

Yes, but there comes a point when He knocks, too (C&E, 2nd C, etc).

Revelations 3: 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[Rose Garden]

Is that before or after we knock?

[Tony]

We are the ones who are supposed to knock.

Yes, but there comes a point when He knocks, too (C&E, 2nd C, etc).

Revelations 3: 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

You must have missed the last line of my post.

The only scripture that has the Savior knocking is Revelation 3:20
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[marc]

Oops, yes I did, but I added context.

[Joel]

Something we all can understand a little better.

Does knowledge = truth? or is truth, truth no matter what we think?

Here is another fun video

[marc]

Ha!! I got the rule before they did. (Does the happy dance!!)

[Rose Garden]

Wow, that was a profound truth. I've questioned things I believe are true, but I don't think I've regularly tried to disprove them.

[Rose Garden]

God actually does not use force in getting His children to obey. Casting Lucifer and his followers out did not force them to obey.

Right, he doesn't use force to get you to obey, but he will use force to apply a punishment for disobedience. (He won't force you into heaven but He might force you out)

Reminds me of this pic:

I totally missed this picture which is why the whole knocking conversation didn't make sense. I don't think the Lord just arbitrarily destroys people because they aren't listening to him. I think if you want to "eat, drink, and be merry" you are welcome to do so, with a few restrictions. If you say you believe in him and use his name to justify hurting others, you are going to to be toast.

It's like the situation King Hezekiah was in. The king of Assyria threatened him and told him, don't expect your god to save you because no one else's did. Isaiah was sent to tell Hezekiah that he would be protected because they weren't talking about the idol gods of the other nations, they were talking about the true and living God of Israel. As promised, the king of Assyria was allowed to get close to Jerusalem but then had his army nearly wiped out.

For everyone else, it was live and let live. But when the true and living God was challenged, he let them know who had power and who didn't.

[Tony]

God actually does not use force in getting His children to obey. Casting Lucifer and his followers out did not force them to obey.

Right, he doesn't use force to get you to obey, but he will use force to apply a punishment for disobedience. (He won't force you into heaven but He might force you out)

Reminds me of this pic:

I totally missed this picture which is why the whole knocking conversation didn't make sense. I don't think the Lord just arbitrarily destroys people because they aren't listening to him. I think if you want to "eat, drink, and be merry" you are welcome to do so, with a few restrictions. If you say you believe in him and use his name to justify hurting others, you are going to to be toast.

It's like the situation King Hezekiah was in. The king of Assyria threatened him and told him, don't expect your god to save you because no one else's did. Isaiah was sent to tell Hezekiah that he would be protected because they weren't talking about the idol gods of the other nations, they were talking about the true and living God of Israel. As promised, the king of Assyria was allowed to get close to Jerusalem but then had his army nearly wiped out.

For everyone else, it was live and let live. But when the true and living God was challenged, he let them know who had power and who didn't.

Scriptures tell us: "Every nation which shall war against thee, O house of Israel, shall be turned one against another, and they shall fall into the pit which they digged to ensnare the people of the Lord. And all that fight against Zion shall be destroyed."

And there is this: "And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the house of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever."

Mormon wrote, "And he that shall breathe out wrath and strifes against the work of the Lord, and against the covenant people of the Lord who are the house of Israel, and shall say: We will destroy the work of the Lord, and the Lord will not remember his covenant which he hath made unto the house of Israel—the same is in danger to be hewn down and cast into the fire."

[rewcox]

So, the covenant people are of the House of Israel!

Mormon wrote, "And he that shall breathe out wrath and strifes against the work of the Lord, and against the covenant people of the Lord who are the house of Israel.

[Obrien]

That's a contentious comment, rewcox. Not everyone believes exactly the same on this point, best to leave it alone. You might get damned to hell for saying such a thing.

[Rose Garden]

That's a contentious comment, rewcox. Not everyone believes exactly the same on this point, best to leave it alone. You might get damned to hell for saying such a thing.

We don't damn people to hell around here, Obrien. We send them to outer darkness.

[Obrien]

I can refute that statement, when I get back on my laptop, if you'd like. I know, it's happened to me a few times.

[Rose Garden]

Reminds me of this pic:

I totally missed this picture which is why the whole knocking conversation didn't make sense. I don't think the Lord just arbitrarily destroys people because they aren't listening to him. I think if you want to "eat, drink, and be merry" you are welcome to do so, with a few restrictions. If you say you believe in him and use his name to justify hurting others, you are going to to be toast.

It's like the situation King Hezekiah was in. The king of Assyria threatened him and told him, don't expect your god to save you because no one else's did. Isaiah was sent to tell Hezekiah that he would be protected because they weren't talking about the idol gods of the other nations, they were talking about the true and living God of Israel. As promised, the king of Assyria was allowed to get close to Jerusalem but then had his army nearly wiped out.

For everyone else, it was live and let live. But when the true and living God was challenged, he let them know who had power and who didn't.

Scriptures tell us: "Every nation which shall war against thee, O house of Israel, shall be turned one against another, and they shall fall into the pit which they digged to ensnare the people of the Lord. And all that fight against Zion shall be destroyed."

And there is this: "And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the house of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever."

Mormon wrote, "And he that shall breathe out wrath and strifes against the work of the Lord, and against the covenant people of the Lord who are the house of Israel, and shall say: We will destroy the work of the Lord, and the Lord will not remember his covenant which he hath made unto the house of Israel—the same is in danger to be hewn down and cast into the fire."

Exactly. Its not that the Lord just loves burning everybody up. He just has to keep his promises to protect those who are truly serving him. That is probably why he is knocking in the door. He's saying, quit messing with my people or I'm going to mess with you.

Incidentally, everyone is allowed to repent and escape the destruction before it takes place.

[Rose Garden]

I can refute that statement, when I get back on my laptop, if you'd like. I know, it's happened to me a few times.

Which statement? About being damned to hell? It was hastily written. Come to think of it, I've damned a few people to hell myself. I just had the sense to keep it in my head, not put it down in writing.

[Obrien]

Not everyone displays such good sense.

[freedomforall]

So, the covenant people are of the House of Israel!

Mormon wrote, "And he that shall breathe out wrath and strifes against the work of the Lord, and against the covenant people of the Lord who are the house of Israel.

1 Nephi 14:14
14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.

1) power of the Lamb of God
2) descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb
3) and upon the covenant people of the Lord
4) The Lord’s people are a covenant people https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/coven ... g&letter=c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who are of the House of Israel? https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/israel?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;