Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

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Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by creator »

The forum rules/standards have been updated. Please read: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let me know if you have any questions.

marktheshark
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by marktheshark »

"and not a forum for being bitter and critical of LDS Church leaders."


If this rule is strictly enforced, a lot of the contention will subside, as this is where most of it is coming from.

I'm all for discussing differing ideas and perspectives, but as I and many others have voiced several times over, nobody here should have to go on the defensive for the leaders because someone is criticizing them, and many times pretty harshly.

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Obrien
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Obrien »

marktheshark wrote:"and not a forum for being bitter and critical of LDS Church leaders."


If this rule is strictly enforced, a lot of the contention will subside, as this is where most of it is coming from.

I'm all for discussing differing ideas and perspectives, but as I and many others have voiced several times over, nobody here should have to go on the defensive for the leaders because someone is criticizing them, and many times pretty harshly.
Now that I have a new job that is eating into my forum time considerably ( :-w ), this should be much less of a problem for the forum as a whole.

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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by creator »

marktheshark wrote:"and not a forum for being bitter and critical of LDS Church leaders."
If this rule is strictly enforced, a lot of the contention will subside, as this is where most of it is coming from.
Just remember that it will often only be enforced IF the moderators are made aware of it - meaning that others who see such comments will need to report those comments or they might go unnoticed by myself and LDSFF moderators.

Lizzy60
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Lizzy60 »

Happy 10th Anniversary, BrianM!!!

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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by creator »

Happy 10th Anniversary, LDSFF!

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Elizabeth
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Elizabeth »

:)

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Jason
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Jason »

I greatly appreciate the attempt at heading the forum down a different road than where we've gone over the past several years. There will always be different thought patterns and associated challenges. Particularly in an environment such as this moderated by volunteers. But with the focus of the forum on LDS it would be nice to look like we belong.

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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Thinker »

Jason,
Is feeling a sense of belonging because everyone's thinking alike most important - or is the highest goal discovering truth that helps us love others as ourselves?

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Buttacup
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Buttacup »

I don't think anyone has ever suggested there be no independent thinking on here. Thinker..

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jbalm
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by jbalm »

Buttacup wrote:I don't think anyone has ever suggested there be no independent thinking on here. Thinker..
I see you've never met Tony.

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Buttacup
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Buttacup »

No not even Tony

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jbalm
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by jbalm »

Obrien wrote:
marktheshark wrote:"and not a forum for being bitter and critical of LDS Church leaders."


If this rule is strictly enforced, a lot of the contention will subside, as this is where most of it is coming from.

I'm all for discussing differing ideas and perspectives, but as I and many others have voiced several times over, nobody here should have to go on the defensive for the leaders because someone is criticizing them, and many times pretty harshly.
Now that I have a new job that is eating into my forum time considerably ( :-w ), this should be much less of a problem for the forum as a whole.
I see that the folks who want to turn the forum into an echo chamber are getting excited. Heaven forbid someone should ever have to think critically about the things they claim to "know."

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caddis
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by caddis »

jbalm wrote:
Obrien wrote:
marktheshark wrote:"and not a forum for being bitter and critical of LDS Church leaders."


If this rule is strictly enforced, a lot of the contention will subside, as this is where most of it is coming from.

I'm all for discussing differing ideas and perspectives, but as I and many others have voiced several times over, nobody here should have to go on the defensive for the leaders because someone is criticizing them, and many times pretty harshly.
Now that I have a new job that is eating into my forum time considerably ( :-w ), this should be much less of a problem for the forum as a whole.
I see that the folks who want to turn the forum into an echo chamber are getting excited. Heaven forbid someone should ever have to think critically about the things they claim to "know."
Why would you want to be part of a church forum if you don't like how things are done? Brian's the one with the keys authority, not you!

There...I got it in before the usual suspects come along and do it. :p

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Jason
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Jason »

Thinker wrote:Jason,
Is feeling a sense of belonging because everyone's thinking alike most important - or is the highest goal discovering truth that helps us love others as ourselves?
Its all perspective. Truth is we should love each other as we love ourselves. Problem is plenty of folks aiming to us 95% truth with 5% twist to work towards a different end point.

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Jason
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Jason »

jbalm wrote:
Obrien wrote:
marktheshark wrote:"and not a forum for being bitter and critical of LDS Church leaders."


If this rule is strictly enforced, a lot of the contention will subside, as this is where most of it is coming from.

I'm all for discussing differing ideas and perspectives, but as I and many others have voiced several times over, nobody here should have to go on the defensive for the leaders because someone is criticizing them, and many times pretty harshly.
Now that I have a new job that is eating into my forum time considerably ( :-w ), this should be much less of a problem for the forum as a whole.
I see that the folks who want to turn the forum into an echo chamber are getting excited. Heaven forbid someone should ever have to think critically about the things they claim to "know."
Great case in point for the harder "wicked" edge that has come to exist here.
Glad to see Obrien's tagline has been changed....

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Obrien
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Obrien »

Obrien has not changed his tagline in forever. ???

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jbalm
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by jbalm »

Obrien wrote:Obrien has not changed his tagline in forever. ???
I think the sock puppet master is referring to my tag line that referenced you.

I hadn't even noticed that it got removed. Praise to the man.

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Thinker
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Thinker »

Jason wrote:
Thinker wrote:Jason,
Is feeling a sense of belonging because everyone's thinking alike most important - or is the highest goal discovering truth that helps us love others as ourselves?
Its all perspective. Truth is we should love each other as we love ourselves. Problem is plenty of folks aiming to us 95% truth with 5% twist to work towards a different end point.
Yes, it is based on perspective, I agree.
And I also agree that truth is often disguised - mixed with philosophies of men - making it difficult to distinguish.
This is why it is so important to use our brains, to study, ponder and then pray with the spirit - and we should never be fooled into thinking we've "arrived" at the truth and there is no more.
Truth is in perspective - a continuous discovery of different ways of considering this life and beyond.

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Joel
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Joel »

Grant Palmer from his point of view describes what is anti-Mormon, I do realize others are not as liberal in their thinking. Brian is very liberal when it comes to allowing others to express their beliefs. He allows others the space to express their current understanding and I think for the most part most people feel that they have been able to progress in their pursuit in understanding truth while learning from others here on the forum. I think the other moderators for the most part have done a great job also.
What is anti-Mormon?

August 13-14, 2003, Sunstone Symposium

Grant H. Palmer


World renowned LDS scientist, Dr. Henry Eyring, spoke at a number of "Challenge Weeks" during my college years at the University of Utah on the subject of science during the 1960's. At the end of one of his papers, a student mockingly asked during the question and answer period: “Joseph Smith said that men live on the moon, are dressed like Quakers … do you believe that Dr. Eyring? Professor Eyring answered without hesitation, "I'm glad you asked that question. You see, in my religion you don’t have to believe in anything that is not true.” His answer reflected the definition of Mormonism that he had learned in his youth, namely, what Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other church leaders had said on the subject.

For example, Joseph Smith taught that “Truth is Mormonism” in 1839.[1] And between 1862-1870, Brigham Young, in educating the saints said that, “If there is a truth among the ungodly and wicked it belongs to us, and if there is a truth in hell it is ours.”[2] “Mormonism,” said Young, “is all truth in heaven, on earth or in hell. … All truth is ours. Now if anybody wants to make a trade, come on! If you have truths, and I have errors, I will give ten errors for one truth … bring on your truth.”[3] For “Mormonism embraces all truth that is revealed and that is unrevealed, whether religious, political, scientific, or philosophical.”[4] “Mormonism includes all truth,” he said.[5]

There are usually two or more viewpoints for virtually every proposition under the sun, thus it comes down to how good is the evidence? For example there are people in the United States today that do not believe that Neil Armstrong stood on the moon. They believe the whole moon landing was staged in a studio with cameras, but how good is their evidence? Some people do not believe the Jewish Holocaust occurred, but how good is their evidence? There is still a Flat Earth Club of London, but the three dimensional earth photographs of the beautiful blue and white orb taken by Buzz Aldrin from the moon, cut their club membership in half. Nevertheless, nine people still believe in a flat earth and belong to the club.

According to early Mormonism, “Truth is Mormonism” and thus it is falsehood itself that is anti-Mormon. Here are three clear examples that represent what I believe to be anti-Mormonism under this definition.

Former LDS member, Ed Decker, has made several movies on the Mormon temple ceremony. In his second film, he notes that Adam and Eve's prayer petition to God in a foreign tongue, is in reality a prayer to “wonderful Lucifer.” Prior to using this foreign language prayer in his film, Decker had asked a Hebrew and Greek scholar for his interpretation of the prayer. When the scholar said such an interpretation was unwarranted, Decker said: “I’m going to use it anyway.” This action is anti-Mormon.

Some people within the LDS Church itself are quick to rush to judgment about what is anti-Mormon. All too often religious literature and political positions are labeled anti-Mormon prematurely. For example, Juanita Brook's book on the Mountain Meadows Massacre, once called anti-Mormon literature, is now carried and recommended by Deseret Book employees for those inquiring about this controversial subject. Time has vindicated Brooks. Someone owes her descendants an apology. She was unofficially dis-fellowshipped for publishing her book. She was asked not to make comments at church, and even her husband was punished by never being asked to pray again in church.

For a third example, I would observe that the early Mormon teaching that "Truth is Mormonism," needs to be re-emphasized in the LDS Church today, beginning with the Book of Abraham. Brigham Young University professor, Michael Rhoades, at the behest of Apostle Neal Maxwell and using the tithing money of the church has translated and published a book on the Joseph Smith papyri that were recovered by the church in 1967. The papyri have nothing to do with Abraham. Overwhelming evidence demonstrates that the papyri are about an Egyptian priest of Amon-Re, named Hor. In Facsimile 3, for example, Joseph Smith has repeatedly said that the Egyptian language above the hands and heads of the various persons in this document are all about Abraham. He is simply wrong, and it doesn’t matter how he arrived at this information. Various writers who have published this evidence are not anti-Mormon, even though speakers at the F.A.I.R. conference called them such last week. Thus, in the best tradition of Mormonism, the Book of Abraham, now embedded within Mormon scripture should be dropped from the standard works of the LDS Church. To continue to spin the Book of Abraham as authentic in light of the overwhelming evidence is anti-Mormon.

When something is shown by solid evidence to be false, according to the above definition, LDS prophets should be willing to modify or discard. It is not enough to say that it is through feeling that fact is found in the LDS Church, that "you shall feel that it is right," and therefore it is truth (D&C 9:8). Neither is it acceptable to encourage small children, who cannot read or write to repeat, "I know the church is true," "I know that Joseph Smith is a true Prophet." We all have hunches, intuitions and feelings and they certainly have their place in our search for truth. Sometimes the evidence supports our feelings. But when the facts and evidence do not support our hunches, intuitions and feelings, then we must decide, do facts and evidence trump feelings, or do I believe that feelings trump facts and evidence. I believe the mature person accepts the former.

I hope the panel will allow ample time for those in the audience to share what you think anti-Mormonism is and what it is not. Thank you.


[1] Dean C. Jessee, comp. and ed., The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1984), 389, emphasis added.

[2] Brigham Young, January 12, 1868, in Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. (London and Liverpool: LDS Booksellers Depot, 1854-86), 12:155.

[3] Brigham Young, July 3, 1870, Ibid., 14:280-81.

[4] BY, January 12, 1862, Ibid., 9:149.

[5] BY, April 8, 1867, Ibid., 11:375.
Truth can be as "fluid" as your beliefs.

Image

Just be believing something is true and then you have truth. I do realize what is Mormonism (truth) to one person is anti-Mormon (false) to another person. I am mostly satisfied with the moderation on LDSFF, I do not think much will change with the moderation.

Anyways I have fun with my time on the forum, change is always happening, I do enjoy reading almost everyone's unique brand of Mormonism.

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by A Random Phrase »

Obrien wrote:Now that I have a new job that is eating into my forum time considerably ( :-w ), this should be much less of a problem for the forum as a whole.
Okay, since you're gonna spend a whole lot less time here (and I probably am, too, because of classes), I gotta say it. [Insert Obrien's favorite curse word here]. (Did it come out right?)

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by A Random Phrase »

It did. :)

(I now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.)

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Obrien
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Obrien »

A Random Phrase wrote:
Obrien wrote:Now that I have a new job that is eating into my forum time considerably ( :-w ), this should be much less of a problem for the forum as a whole.
Okay, since you're gonna spend a whole lot less time here (and I probably am, too, because of classes), I gotta say it. [Insert Obrien's favorite curse word here]. (Did it come out right?)
All you have to do is type "d-a-m-m-i-t", without all the dashes. As far as the forum goes, that is Obrien's favorite curse word.

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by A Random Phrase »

That's what I did. :) But I didn't figure it out on my own.

It's amazing how not knowing something can drive a person crazy (figuratively speaking), even when it is trivia and knowing it is not such a big deal.

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Obrien
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Re: Forum Rules Update - 6/24/2015 - PLEASE READ

Post by Obrien »

That's why I figured I would spill the beans, so everyone will know. I'm like you - little stuff like that can drive you NUTS.

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