How Cults Work

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Thinker
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Thinker »

BeePrepared,
Thank you, I like you too.
And I can relate with your sadness. I remember feeling sad for inactive family who couldn't join us for a temple wedding. Then, recently, I didn't attend a temple wedding because I can't honestly answer the "right" answers for a recommend. Unlike my inactive brother and sister, I am active - even have callings. We do FHE every Monday, have family prayer every night, pay generous tithes to those in need, only listen to or watch uplifting media (and limited). We have high standards and try to keep the spirit in our home and I think it's often felt by everyone that lives here or visits.

So, don't feel sorry for me. I'm fine. I've moved on, as spiritually guided to. I love the church and still attend but my beliefs have progressed and I'm seeing clearer every day. I have felt spiritual confirmation that I'm doing God's will - and that is my priority though I'm not perfect.
jwharton wrote:
Thinker wrote:
jwharton wrote:I think what is really trying to be discerned here is what priest craft is.
The question could be asked, What does priestcraft look like?
Thanks for your comments, Jwharton.

The Book of Mormon says, "Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the Welfare of Zion…"

Ie: Hiding and disobeying the commandment of leaders to share TITHES with the poor (Deut. 14:28-29) and instead building up a corporate empire including shopping malls, to get financial gain in the name of Jesus Christ.

What an awful feeling it was when I began to realize I was indeed in a cult. I had been taught as most cults teach, that any objection to the cult was "the adversary" ... but really, what I experienced was a terrible feeling of betrayal. I know that the church does not hold a monopoly on the spirit because since turning away from harmful teachings and toward God, I've felt the spirit stronger and more than ever!
And, sadly, when the gain and praise of the world becomes more important than those the church is to serve, the church looses its most spiritually attuned and all that winds up being left are the minions who want it to be a cult and are doing their darnedest to turn it into one.
This is why in the thread about the pollution being in the holy church of God I say that if we as a church humbled ourselves we would start getting a much higher quality of spiritual beings gathered into the fold.

What was the difference between Abel's offering and Cain's?

Abel brought in much higher order "creatures" than Cain did.
Cain only gathers in the cultish minions, not true spiritual giants.
Sadly, I think you're right in a way. But there's hope. Each of us are learning line upon line. People are getting smarter - partly due to the flynn effect but also the world is getting increasingly connected and becoming more informed (too much information age :D ).

I hope my kids are spiritual giants - I know they have gifts already and awesome potential. I want them to think for themselves and act in accordance with spiritual guidance so they follow ONLY GOD.

How do I teach them to have only God (who is pure Love that will never fail) as their leader?

Bee Prepared
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Bee Prepared »

Thinker,

The youth programs in the church are so amazing to me, there is so much good to be had. The YW women program re-inforces
the council of their parents. EFY, Youth conference, Camp, etc.. They are taught standards, modesty and goal keeping. I love working with the youth and watching them mature into adults who have made good choices.

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caddis
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by caddis »

Thinker wrote:
jwharton wrote:I think what is really trying to be discerned here is what priest craft is.
The question could be asked, What does priestcraft look like?
Thanks for your comments, Jawharton.

The Book of Mormon says, "Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the Welfare of Zion…"

Ie: Hiding and disobeying the commandment of leaders to share TITHES with the poor (Deut. 14:28-29) and instead building up a corporate empire including shopping malls, to get financial gain in the name of Jesus Christ.

What an awful feeling it was when I began to realize I was indeed in a cult. I had been taught as most cults teach, that any objection to the cult was "the adversary" ... but really, what I experienced was a terrible feeling of betrayal. I know that the church does not hold a monopoly on the spirit because since turning away from harmful teachings and toward God, I've felt the spirit stronger and more than ever!
That has been my experience as well. All the TBM's will say it isn't possible (which is what I would have said 1 year ago) because it flies in the face of everything they've been taught. Contrary to what I had been taught all my life at church, by turning away from the "brethren", I have found the Lord and have actually grown closer to Him. My ability to recognize His will for me is stronger now than at any time in my life--even while on my mission. It has happened because I put away the "false traditions" taught by LDS inc.

I still hold a calling, and serve others outside of the church and make donations to others much like Thinker. I just no longer let "authorities" dictate where my service and donations will be done.

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Epistemology
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Epistemology »

Caddis

Most TBM don't use the brethren as a crutch. We believe in seeking the Lords face and being able to not stand on borrowed light. We just simply believe the brethren are NOT fallen and the church will continue to roll forth boldly by continuous revelation

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caddis
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by caddis »

Epistemology wrote:Caddis

Most TBM don't use the brethren as a crutch. We believe in seeking the Lords face and being able to not stand on borrowed light. We just simply believe the brethren are NOT fallen and the church will continue to roll forth boldly by continuous revelation
That was satire right? If not, I wish you well in your journey, because your experience has been much different than mine brother. I see a church full of people that must be commanded in all things. If the brethren don't give the okay then it's NOT okay. If the brethren aren't talking about it then it must not matter. They cannot lead us astray after all. Do you know how many times I've heard different Bishops say "I will have to look in the Church Handbook" when asked a question about something. How about you just ask the Lord or do what you feel is best as directed by the spirit. We couldn't do that...well...because "the thinking has been done for us."

Good luck brother! I mean that sincerely. :ymhug:

worthit
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by worthit »

we both know what he's insinuating by this post...and it's just a load of crap
It's not crap. Look at this, then make a better judgment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZWY3r5EV3Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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caddis
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by caddis »

Epist

PS...See bee prepared's response below, for a good example of members not being able to do anything outside of what the "brethren" have told them to do.

viewtopic.php?p=583305#p583298" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bee Prepared
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Bee Prepared »

caddis wrote:
Epistemology wrote:Caddis

Most TBM don't use the brethren as a crutch. We believe in seeking the Lords face and being able to not stand on borrowed light. We just simply believe the brethren are NOT fallen and the church will continue to roll forth boldly by continuous revelation
That was satire right? If not, I wish you well in your journey, because your experience has been much different than mine brother. I see a church full of people that must be commanded in all things. If the brethren don't give the okay then it's NOT okay. If the brethren aren't talking about it then it must not matter. They cannot lead us astray after all. Do you know how many times I've heard different Bishops say "I will have to look in the Church Handbook" when asked a question about something. How about you just ask the Lord or do what you feel is best as directed by the spirit. We couldn't do that...well...because "the thinking has been done for us."

Good luck brother! I mean that sincerely. :ymhug:
And I mean this sincerely, why don't you bunch of crybabies start your own LDS Basher's forum? :ymhug:

The Church handbook and instructions to our Stake and Ward leaders has come through PRAYER!

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Epistemology
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Epistemology »

So no one has any nominations for best new cult leader?

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jbalm
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by jbalm »

Epistemology wrote:So no one has any nominations for best new cult leader?
Just take your pick from the founders of the latest MLMs, found here:

http://www.npros.com/newcompanies.asp

Bee Prepared
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Bee Prepared »

Epistemology wrote:So no one has any nominations for best new cult leader?
Good one " Epistemology" :D

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Thinker
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Re: How Cults Work

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Caddis,
You seem to be doing better too. That's good!
Still, I won't say it's easy or comfortable to break out of a life-encompassing cult, especially when all around you - even your spouse - are against you. And church leaders overstepping their authority, as if it's against the law in UT to question the dominating religious cult culture. I've looked for truth wherever I can find it and have realized repeatedly that there are no "gurus" or "prophets" out there. And often those professing to be such are among the most deluded.

I've often felt like God is urging me to look to God only, but I'm so used to looking to others.
God is love.
How many are "lookin' for love in all the wrong places"?

Steve Clark
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Steve Clark »

Bee Prepared wrote:And I mean this sincerely, why don't you bunch of crybabies start your own LDS Basher's forum? :ymhug:
I was here first! :p

Bee Prepared
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Bee Prepared »

Steve Clark wrote:
Bee Prepared wrote:And I mean this sincerely, why don't you bunch of crybabies start your own LDS Basher's forum? :ymhug:
I was here first! :p
Wait, I didn't mean you or thinker or jbalm or Obrien ( he's got me on ignore hahaha) I really do like all of you.
I apologize, I think we all get out of control sometimes, I'm not going to be the Lone Ranger on this one! :D

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Thinker
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Thinker »

Define control as opposed to out of control. :D

Bee Prepared
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Bee Prepared »

Thinker wrote:Define control as opposed to out of control. :D
NO! ( Shall we add immature?)


Image

KMCopeland
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by KMCopeland »

jwharton wrote:To summarize it, look at what it takes to be a narcissistic sociopath and this will characterize the leader to the group and also the group as a whole to outsiders.
That doesn't actually summarize it. Just sayin'.

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Re: How Cults Work

Post by KMCopeland »

The early church comes very close to qualifying as a cult. Let's face it: it was one. We've evolved of course. But don't all of us fear getting in "trouble" for what we might say here? Do you think Methodists fear being critical of their church leadership in quite the same way? I'll answer that: they don't.

I love the church. I'm proud of it. But it has some issues I'd like to see it handle differently.

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Enoch
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Enoch »

I would say the lds church definitely has many cult aspects if not completing its cycle to become a cult. As a tbm I remember many bro and sisters fawning at the idea of being able to be in the presence of a 12. Other ideas like we are the only ones who have the truth, you need us to be saved, you can only trust the holy Ghost if it agrees with us, there are no miracles outside of our one true church, if a miracle does exist it was made by Satan, only the 12 can speak on behalf of God.

There is emotional control in a lot of use of guilt and shame to cohort people into doing things. I think people are taught to give there will to church and leadership on basis of the only legit power and authority. This is the most dangerous ones for me cause it resembles Satan's plan, give me your will, don't think just do. I feel like definitely they have placed the leadership of the church as the replacement for God. They teach you to give your entire will to them. To avoid thinking once a teaching is decreed as truth. You can't question and if you do your seen as broken goods.

I remember being taught to avoid people who weren't as squeaky clean as the lds, supposedly were. There is information control, like only read church approved material, and also for your time to be so saturated that your life revolves around the church, no necessarily Christ though.

Your whole life is planned for you from the get go, the mission is a must, temple marriage right after, and don't forget about having a large family. Choice is not given. I remember being on the mission and many bros there only for the status it would give them when they would come back. I remember girls being taught only to marry rms. No choice on callings, you just have to do it.

Paying you tithing for fire insurance. Telling you that out of it you would prosper monetarily out of it. The whole idea of bearing your testimony will bring a testimony, I've never seen that in any scripture, it has always been by calling out to God and He manifesting the truth to you. That idea is very creepy especially when applied to little children. I think this last conference one of the dudes there said the same thing, record it and play it back at night. Yep culty.

I can remember many people who were baptized without any testimony at all.

Also a dead effect where service and people in church are robotic, there has been very few times that I met sincere Christ like people that would be there for you no matter the circumstance. There was always groups, no oneness in the members.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUsOHsZIiA4

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Re: How Cults Work

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Epistemology wrote:Which LDSFF member do you think would be the best cult leader?
My favorite post of the day :D Can't wait for the responses.. :-?

KMCopeland
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by KMCopeland »

Bee Prepared wrote:Thinker,

The youth programs in the church are so amazing to me, there is so much good to be had. The YW women program re-inforces the council of their parents. EFY, Youth conference, Camp, etc.. They are taught standards, modesty and goal keeping. I love working with the youth and watching them mature into adults who have made good choices.
The youth programs are outstanding. As are so many other things in the Church. It's an enormous force for good in the world, and in the individual lives of its members.

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Sirocco
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Sirocco »

BrianM wrote:
Epistemology wrote:Which LDSFF member do you think would be the best cult leader?
My favorite post of the day :D Can't wait for the responses.. :-?
me, I'm already writing the scriptures and I got a name all lined up (and a logo)

Bee Prepared
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Bee Prepared »

BrianM wrote:
Epistemology wrote:Which LDSFF member do you think would be the best cult leader?
My favorite post of the day :D Can't wait for the responses.. :-?
:)) But, but, If I suggest Obrien I might get kicked off?

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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Fiannan »

KMCopeland wrote:The early church comes very close to qualifying as a cult.
In my view the opposite is the case.

Okay, for starters, I once came across a bunch of LDS publications from the 1960s. Reading the articles was like reading texts that were aimed at graduate students - quite complex, all issues clarified with the reasons why one should do this or that. I have also read talks from leaders in the JofD and come on, not cultic in any sense of the word!

Advance us to present day. Things are simple and it does appear as if people are told this or that with (I believe) fictional stories of characters who lived this or did that. You know the standard, "Jim was a young man who was agonizing over his new girlfriend Sally's decision to get a tattoo." or something like that. I have noted this to members and usually people I talk to, who tend to be devout as well as educated, will accurately note that Americans in the past were an analytical and intelligent people who could understand complex doctrine; yet now they have devolved into Walmart munchers for the most part who have 1 second attention spans and could not think their way out of a soggy paper bag. Sadly this degeneration of the masses has affected many, many Mormons as well.

So is it the fault of the Church that American culture has gone from a relatively advanced state to one of mindless, reality-show-watching, self-indulgent people who need to be told what to do and what to think? Come on, compared to the general population Mormons are practically to the level of Freud, Tesla and Nietzsche.

Bee Prepared
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Bee Prepared »

KMCopeland wrote:
Bee Prepared wrote:Thinker,

The youth programs in the church are so amazing to me, there is so much good to be had. The YW women program re-inforces the council of their parents. EFY, Youth conference, Camp, etc.. They are taught standards, modesty and goal keeping. I love working with the youth and watching them mature into adults who have made good choices.
The youth programs are outstanding. As are so many other things in the Church. It's an enormous force for good in the world, and in the individual lives of its members.
I love this church and like you, I proud of it!! The rock continues to roll! ( is that a musical group?) I served as YW Pres. for years and I am
so impressed with our youth.

There's a fine line between criticizing the church or building it up by helping solve problems. I stand all amazed!

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