I dont believe in god. But have a question...

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FSM
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I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by FSM »

:-\ Question for everyone. As you might can tell from my user name I am an atheist. Which means I don't believe in god, Jesus, or any other form of deity. I'm glad people on this forum do and that's why I could use your opinion. Question is: I am an atheist if I don't believe in god but wish there was one? Please do not see me as a missionary opposite. I don't want to be active in the lds church or any other. Thank you for your kind thoughts.

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slimjamm
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by slimjamm »

Let your hope of there being one, be your seed. Nourish that and see where it takes you.

hyloglyph
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by hyloglyph »

Not sure.

I think the definition of atheist may not be set in stone

Why do you ask?
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pjbrownie
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by pjbrownie »

Don't believe IN God or don't believe there IS a God are two different questions to. Which one?

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Reggie
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by Reggie »

If you're looking for something to prove to you that there IS a God beyond a doubt, not going to happen until He shows up to decimate the wicked. Then you will know for sure as you go up in smoke. A little late then; but not all is lost, even then. The fact you're on a forum like this, tells me there is more to you than meets the name. I will tell you this much. God Is Love. Think of all the love you've ever experienced in your life. All the commitment from other people, even if it was for a little while. All the kindness anyone has ever shown you. Every little illogical thing that has ever benefitted you. You will begin to understand God. All good things come from God. The sunshine, the rain, babies, animals, crops, everything. I don't care if you call Him higher power, Great Spirit, Allah, God of Israel, it is He. He runs on LOVE. He is love. If you have any love in your life at all, He is in your life. Because you are on this forum, He is all up in your life calling to you, trying to get past your trust issues, your unbelief, your pain, your logic, your science, whatever it is that has you canned. If you can even trust yourself, is important. I know you have felt things many times; but you refused to believe a feeling. God is a feeling, Atheist. He is a feeling and being of Love. If you really want to know there is a God, humble yourself. Get down on your knees and ask Him, "Are you real, God?" Make sure you want to know, A because He's gonna rock your world when you do.

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marc
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by marc »

a·the·ist
ˈāTHēəst/
noun
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
"he is a committed atheist"
synonyms: nonbeliever, disbeliever, unbeliever, skeptic, doubter, doubting Thomas, agnostic; nihilist

To disbelieve in the existence of God, a deity or a higher power is atheism. To hope or at least to acknowledge the possibility that there is a God, that despite your disbelief or lack of proof is not atheism, in my opinion. But the lack of proof is not proof. This can be applied to many things.

What comes into play is the law of witnesses. There comes a point where witnesses or those who claim to be witnesses must be validated. If the witnesses are credible, then the possibility certainly exists. The thing about our Christian God is that I cannot prove Him to you. I cannot prove Him to anybody. You cannot prove Him to me either, even if you became an eye witness tomorrow. But God can prove it to you. God proves Himself to us individually and independently.

We hope for something better because we want something better. We've seen worse and can tell the difference. And if something can be good when we have experienced worse, then it stands to reason that there is something better than good. That also means that something must exist, which is best--something most desirable.

It does begin with hope. Faith begins with the hope that there is something better. Faith means that it is possible that what a witness describes, which you have not seen or experienced can indeed be experienced by you if you really see any evidence that it might be so.

And thus the journey begins.

Cookies
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by Cookies »

Maybe you're more of an atheist leaning agnostic?
See 13:50

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Joel
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by Joel »

atheist wrote::-\ Question for everyone. As you might can tell from my user name I am an atheist. Which means I don't believe in god, Jesus, or any other form of deity. I'm glad people on this forum do and that's why I could use your opinion. Question is: I am an atheist if I don't believe in god but wish there was one? Please do not see me as a missionary opposite. I don't want to be active in the lds church or any other. Thank you for your kind thoughts.
What happen to you that you would want to start down this road? Why would you want to go from one belief to an opposite one? Anyway, explore different possibilities, keep an open mind. I would suggest looking into meditation and see where that takes you as you are exploring a belief in God.

I would also say to be guarded when people from different religions (including the LDS church) try to help you interpret your experiences. Theists will give you emotional testimonies about what they believe( some LDS will claim they "know" things, dig deeper and ask what they mean that they "know" ). Just know our church through another corporation it owns actively exploits and try's to create emotion to sell things, it's called "HeartSell"®, it's a strategic emotional advertising tactic that stimulates a certain response that the corporation wants people to do. So keep aware of that fact.

If you start reading the bible look also into the history of the bible, it's pretty messy, you will find that the text in the bible isn't exactly what it claims always but see what you think.

And, if you think you would want to look at the Book of Mormon, then consider B.H. Robert's advice (a past LDS leader):
The Book of Mormon of necessity must submit to every test, to literary criticism, as well as to every other class of criticism; for our age is above all things critical, and especially critical of sacred literature, and we may not hope that the Book of Mormon will escape closest scrutiny; neither, indeed, is it desirable that it should escape. It is given to the world as a revelation from God. It is a volume of American scripture. Men have a right to test it by the keenest criticism, and to pass severest judgment upon it, and we who accept it as a revelation from God have every reason to believe that it will endure every test; and the more thoroughly it is investigated, the greater shall be its ultimate triumph. Here it is in the world; let the world make the most of it, or the least of it. It is and will remain true. But it will not do for those who believe it to suppose that they can dismiss objections to this American volume of scripture by the assumption of a lofty air of superiority, and a declaration as to what is enough for us or anybody else to know. The Book of Mormon is presented to the world for its acceptance; and the Latter-day Saints are anxious that their fellow men should believe it. If objections are made to it, to the manner of its translation, with the rest, these objections should be patiently investigated, and the most reasonable explanations possible, given. (B. H. Roberts, “The Translation of the Book of Mormon,” 435–36.)
I would not just read scripture without looking into the history of how it became scripture.

If the bible or any other scripture doesn't persuade you that there is a God, then move on and explore different possibilities.

Stay open, be curious, maybe you will find a belief in God when you aren't looking so hard. I knew a guy that found a belief in God studying science.

Good luck.

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Obrien
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by Obrien »

@ atheist - I can tell you Jesus is actually real, but I can't prove it empirically to you. short of the witness that has been given to me, I have nothing you would consider proof of God. although it may sound strange to you, why don't you put your hypothesis to the test: in a calm, dispassionate manner why don't you ask God if he's real, and if he is, to reveal himself to you?

rational people ask questions and gather information while making decisions. do so.

1 question for you - if he does reveal himself to you, what will you do with that information?

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Col. Flagg
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by Col. Flagg »

If you don't mind me asking... why don't you believe in a supreme being?

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oneClimbs
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by oneClimbs »

atheist wrote::-\ Question for everyone. As you might can tell from my user name I am an atheist. Which means I don't believe in god, Jesus, or any other form of deity. I'm glad people on this forum do and that's why I could use your opinion. Question is: I am an atheist if I don't believe in god but wish there was one? Please do not see me as a missionary opposite. I don't want to be active in the lds church or any other. Thank you for your kind thoughts.
Humans are interesting things. We learn by comparison, we label things and put them into boxes. This is one of the more annoying aspects of the way we think and we all do it.

You identify with atheism but wonder if wishing there was a God still holds true to the label of atheist. What I would ask, is why adopt the label in the first place? To me the magnitude of the universe tells me that there is so much that I don't know. If I didn't feel comfortable embracing a particular theology and didn't believe there was a god but wished there was one, well, I think that is a reasonable conclusion for a person to take.

The idea of all this and no purpose is really kind of depressing. No right, no wrong, all life, intelligence, reason, observation, the human experience is nothing more that just some chemical reaction that formed, persisted for a bit and then eventually disappears. Why even ask questions, why build anything, why survive, why learn, why try to convince others that they are wrong or right since nothing matters anyway.

That could very well be the truth and the way things are. One could claim we are foolish for trying to think otherwise, but if there is no right or wrong then there is no foolishness either. There's just things doing things, nobody is smart or dumb, nothing means anything.

But I can see why someone who can think, who can reason, who can observe, would want to wish that there IS something more, a greater purpose, a higher intelligence. Some would say you aren't an atheist, some would say you are. Try abandoning labels and just following where you reason leads you. Don't be afraid to experiment with different ideas, search the collective experience of mankind. Why not see if there's something to this God stuff.

The alternative is to sit and always wonder. As long as you are alive and aware, explore.
Last edited by oneClimbs on November 8th, 2014, 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

davedan
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by davedan »

Naming and categorizing is not so very important.

The important thing is that one can only know that there is a God after having a personal experience with Him. I can tell you I know God lives because I have had numerous personal and shared experiences with God.

All I can do and say is to invite you to seek for your own experience with God. He is worth it. He is the "rewarder of them that dilligently seek Him".

It would be unwise to not just "not know" but moreover to "not care" to seek to know after so many witnesses who testify that if we seek, we will find Him. We will not be found guiltless.

There are certain things we must do to find God. Some don't really want to know because that would mean that they would be accountable to a higher being. To receive a witness of God you must be fully willing to follow His will and set aside your own will. You can no longer just do whatever you want and be at peace about it.

FSM
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by FSM »

Col. Flagg wrote:If you don't mind me asking... why don't you believe in a supreme being?
good question. I guess I don't believe a supreme being believes in me. My proof is death, pain suffering, starvation, being released from a calling you love, being called to callings that you know your not qualified for because I'm an in the closet atheist. God should know this already. Being lead around like a dog on a leash by mortality superior people.

KMCopeland
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by KMCopeland »

If you don't believe in God but you wish there was one, yes, you're an atheist. Your wish that there is a God means you're an open-minded atheist.

I believe there is vast evidence that there is a genuine force, or power for good in the universe -- which is easily translated as "God." I think you should make sure you remain open to noticing, and then embracing, that evidence. That's the only advice I'd give you.

"Atheist" is not the same thing as "going to hell" by the way.

Thomas
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by Thomas »

Actually, if you hope there is a God, you are in the beginning stages of faith.

Alma 32:21
21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.
That hope, if acted on can grow as the seedling grows into a mighty tree. Test your hope by acting upon your hope. The reward comes when God reveals himself unto you. Then the real work begins.

The only way to know God is real is to have him speak to you. If he does, you will know for a certainty that he is real. Seek him out.Those that do find him.

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Obrien
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

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atheist wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:If you don't mind me asking... why don't you believe in a supreme being?
good question. I guess I don't believe a supreme being believes in me. My proof is death, pain suffering, starvation, being released from a calling you love, being called to callings that you know your not qualified for because I'm an in the closet atheist. God should know this already. Being lead around like a dog on a leash by mortality superior people.
The pain, suffering, and starvation you reference can be a bit problematic for having faith in God. Many people have wrestled with the problem of pain in mortality - you're not alone there. The other things you mentioned seem to be LDS church related. I wouldn't let any real or perceived shortcomings of the LDS church convince you that there's no God. The two (LDS church and God) only overlap in the most tenuous of ways.

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Col. Flagg
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

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atheist wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:If you don't mind me asking... why don't you believe in a supreme being?
good question. I guess I don't believe a supreme being believes in me. My proof is death, pain suffering, starvation, being released from a calling you love, being called to callings that you know your not qualified for because I'm an in the closet atheist. God should know this already. Being lead around like a dog on a leash by mortality superior people.
The Lord loves and believes in everyone, I can assure you that. Yes, some people tend to have more trials and adversity than others and I am living proof... I've lost two jobs in the last 13 years while trying to devote plenty of time to my callings in the church with a family to take care of and support, all while being a perpetual student trying to make something of myself with a career and degree to solely provide for said family. But never once have I blamed the Lord on any of this... it's the society we live in and man that are the culprits to the financial/career adversity I've had, not the Lord. We all have adversity to some degree in this life... it's how we cope with and deal with it and our attitudes about it that defines us and our character. I was our ward Membership Clerk for over 6 years and when I got released, I was disappointed because I loved the calling, but that doesn't suddenly mean the Lord didn't believe in me anymore. All Bishoprics get released at some point but that doesn't mean the Lord doesn't believe in them anymore. And I've had plenty of callings I've felt inadequate about, but the Lord works in mysterious ways and knows how to make 'weak things become strong'. I'm sorry you've had the experiences you have, but please don't blame the Lord... I know I never have and never will... just endure to the end and you will reap the rewards on the other side of the veil! :ymhug:
Last edited by Col. Flagg on November 3rd, 2014, 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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oneClimbs
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

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Obrien wrote:
atheist wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:If you don't mind me asking... why don't you believe in a supreme being?
good question. I guess I don't believe a supreme being believes in me. My proof is death, pain suffering, starvation, being released from a calling you love, being called to callings that you know your not qualified for because I'm an in the closet atheist. God should know this already. Being lead around like a dog on a leash by mortality superior people.
The pain, suffering, and starvation you reference can be a bit problematic for having faith in God. Many people have wrestled with the problem of pain in mortality - you're not alone there. The other things you mentioned seem to be LDS church related. I wouldn't let any real or perceived shortcomings of the LDS church convince you that there's no God. The two (LDS church and God) only overlap in the most tenuous of ways.
I might have some answers that could help explain the reason behind the suffering, etc. but it is too much to explain here. The elements are all in the scriptures but you would have to connect them and it might take about an hour or so to lay it all out. The short of it would be that this earth is our inheritance. A quick read of D&C 130 illustrates that a "celestial world" seems to bear similar characteristics to some kind of database where one might perceive all things, past present and future, because every particle of dust, every intelligence involved in the duration of mortal probation will have recorded every single event, thought, action, etc.

The earth must exist for a certain duration and free will must be completely open. It must exist long enough for certain things to come to pass, the construction of a Zion society, the life of a redeemer, and all the good that must be done and recorded. The only catch is that in order for sufficient time to be allowed for this all to happen according to free will, you must take the bad with the good. Opposition isn't pretty. The brighter the bright, the darker the dark. This is not easy to swallow, but the good news is that no matter the terror that is inflicted here in mortality, it ALL has an end. To us, in our perspective, lifetimes are long and meet tragic ends at times, but to God, we are gone but moments, all pain ends and no being is outside the ability to be healed.

As for the callings thing, it's not about being qualified. Callings are not meant to be always given to the person who is perfect for them, in fact, they are better when they are challenging to you. Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean that you can't serve or teach. If you haven't noticed before, the baptism or temple recommend questions never ask if you KNOW this or that are true, they ask if you BELIEVE. Belief isn't a STATE that you are either in or not, it is a CHOICE you make, a JUDGEMENT based on the evidence you may or may not see, or the HYPOTHESIS that you feel inclined to support and experiment with.

Even an atheist who doesn't think there is a God could look within himself and the Church and think, "I don't know if all of this is true, but there are some good things here, I wish it were true, why not believe that there is something more and try re-writing some of my paradigms and taking a new approach. How about I 'believe' for a time, while I experiment because I can always choose to not believe later."

It's not like you have anything to lose. If there is no God and the human experience is simply a pointless chemical reaction then nothing means anything anyway. Whether you are a member of the church or some other church or no church, why get frustrated over people's beliefs? If there is no right, then there is no wrong so technically nobody is wrong. There's no point to anything, just like a fungus growing on a rock, so are we. What one cell does in the mass of fungus doesn't really matter. We are dust on a space rock and there is nobody who cares, no one who weeps over this planet and the brutality and suffering we see in life is just chemicals reacting, like vinegar and baking soda so no need to feel bad about it.

That's one way of looking at things. If I were an athiest, that is what I would call atheism, supposing there was anything more would be as ridiculous as bitterly weeping over stepping on some mold. If I were this kind of athiest, I wouldn't bother with trying to correct anyone. I wouldn't object to someone stealing my property or killing my family. It would just be vinegar and baking soda.

Unfortunately, I can't take that position because I have experienced certain things that invalidate that perspective. There is an intelligence that weeps over us and that deeply and completely desires to draw us near. That values free will so much as a necessary part of the purpose of existence that he will restrain himself now, knowing that he can heal all wounds only a moment later. A child cannot see life like their parent can, this is plain to observe. The smallest of inconveniences is the greatest of tragedies, they weep and wail and life is just horrible! Yet the parent will often not intervene. What is everlastingly devastating to them, the parent understands is only temporary.

How much more would be the wisdom of God compared to our limited vision? Are we not like children in a similar sense? Are we not a lesser intelligence that can barely influence a few little objects here on earth while a greater intelligence builds galaxies?

We are all still infants, toddlers maybe, children at best. There is a God, I don't understand him completely, in fact, all I can really say about him is that I know he is aware of my existence and that the love he has for me and each of us is less of an emotion and more of a power or a force. It lifts and exalts, it dashes away fear and confusion, it is light. I would love to know more, but the little that I do know fills me so fully that I don't feel deprived.

I could go on, but there's my crude attempt at putting some ideas out there. I hope that someone can see past my feeble words written in an inadequate language.

Don't ever stop searching, the alternative is nothing. Something is worth every effort in discovering.

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SpeedRacer
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

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atheist wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:If you don't mind me asking... why don't you believe in a supreme being?
good question. I guess I don't believe a supreme being believes in me. My proof is death, pain suffering, starvation, being released from a calling you love, being called to callings that you know your not qualified for because I'm an in the closet atheist. God should know this already. Being lead around like a dog on a leash by mortality superior people.
Wow, this is super sad. You put your faith in fallen men running a fallen organization and found that they were fallen, but supposed that it was the will of God. They call them growth callings.

God does live. The proof is literally all around you. Go study the big bang and evolution, then go out and observe nature. Pickup a book on biology, astronomy, etc. You will see God in everything. To think by chance our world came into this motion around this sun provided with all of the materials for a circle of life is the longest stretch of the imagination I can think of. Just because a few scientists begin to understand the smallest parts of what makes things tick is no reason to ignore the mountains of information that just can't be explained without and intelligent designer.

You may want to throw out the idea of God that someone else holds, it is probably wrong. Go engage God and ask him to reveal himself. He loves you and will begin to reveal himself as quickly as you will let him.

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oneClimbs
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by oneClimbs »

Lectures on Faith.

boo
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by boo »

Pascal's wager anyone ?

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oneClimbs
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

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boo wrote:Pascal's wager anyone ?
Well that's a start, I suppose. It assumes that knowledge of God's existence cannot be proven or disproven.

I would argue that the best and perhaps only proof can be obtained through personal experience which I why I recommended Lectures on Faith. It provides a reasonable approach that one could take or use as the basis of an experiment whereas the wager is simply casting your lot. I don't like leaving things to chance.

But if you had to start with Pascal's wager it's certainly an interesting exercise to ponder. Truly if there is no God and no purpose, then nothing really matters anyway. By living a life of faith or not doesn't really make a difference, so in my mind, a true atheist shouldn't really care what people do, good or bad, right or wrong, because it's all just baking soda and vinegar.

If there is a God, then the choice to not explore could come at an infinite cost. It seems as though that the majority of human beings have always believed in some kind of higher power. Just like all cultures have art and music and as each artist taps into creativity and expresses different colors, patterns and designs, perhaps each of the religious traditions are merely an attempt to approximate what they understood by what they saw on the other side.

There are many different ways of expressing intangible emotions through art, music and dance in ways that only really make sense to you if you have experienced those things for yourself.

In the same way, perhaps when people from different cultures and traditions pierce the veil, they try to express what they experience in religions, all of which never have it 100% right, though some may be closer approximations than others.

Perhaps we are too quick to judge them all as conflicting, when at their core, the share striking similarities. I was just at an interfaith meeting last night with six different religions talking about their views of the afterlife. Every single one had some kind of doctrine concerning free will and accountability. Sure we differ on many things, but this core idea that there is a purpose to our consciousness, our awareness, our ability to observe and intentionally change matter and influence the universe around us is universally recognized.

Like art, there are many people trying to say the same things using different means, religions can be seen as cultural expressions of experiences with the divine.
Last edited by oneClimbs on November 3rd, 2014, 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FSM
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by FSM »

Brothers and sisters. Thank you so much for your input. I never expected to get this much feedback. Thank you.

FSM
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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

Post by FSM »

Pascal's wager ? Crickets'

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Re: I dont believe in god. But have a question...

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atheist wrote:Pascal's wager ? Crickets'
Google it ;)

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