Need a place to live

[ajax]

I think there are many of you making assumptions about Jezebel. She's here asking for help, are you helping her with your criticism?

I think most here are willing to help. That's really not the issue.

The issue is when a person is able to work to help support herself, but flat out says she will not be working, nor will be contributing anything monetarily to the host in relation to additional expense relief etc, there is nothing wrong with fleshing out that issue.

[iWriteStuff]

Love the new avatar, iwritestuff.

My sarcasm detector is broken today, so I'm not sure what to make of that.

I also had to restrain my initial reaction to the explanation. I'm not sure I understand the reason Jezebel feels instructed not to work, but I imagine her reasons are hers to keep and hers to answer to.

I have an anecdotal story I could share regarding my brother-in-law's inspiration to do the same while forcing my sister to work, but I'm not sure it would have any relevance to Jezebel's situation. He's definitely a special case. That being said, aren't we all? :ymhug:

[SmallFarm]

I think there are many of you making assumptions about Jezebel. She's here asking for help, are you helping her with your criticism?

I think most here are willing to help. That's really not the issue.

The issue is when a person is able to work to help support herself, but flat out says I will not be working, nor will be contributing anything monetarily to the host in relation to additional expense relief etc, there is nothing wrong with fleshing out that issue.

She didn't say she wouldn't be working. She said she couldn't make an agreement to exchange work for rent. What I interpret from that is that she can't work to get gain. Now it could be that I''m wrong and she's just a lazy shift-about and just looking for an excuse to be slothful, but I don't see any point or good in calling her out on it publicly...

[jbalm]

Love the new avatar, iwritestuff.

My sarcasm detector is broken today, so I'm not sure what to make of that.

I'm guessing Obrien was sincere.

I really like it too. I appreciate self-deprecating humor.

[ajax]

I think there are many of you making assumptions about Jezebel. She's here asking for help, are you helping her with your criticism?

I think most here are willing to help. That's really not the issue.

The issue is when a person is able to work to help support herself, but flat out says I will not be working, nor will be contributing anything monetarily to the host in relation to additional expense relief etc, there is nothing wrong with fleshing out that issue.

She didn't say she wouldn't be working. She said she couldn't make an agreement to exchange work for rent. What I interpret from that is that she can't work to get gain. Now it could be that I''m wrong and she's just a lazy shift-about and just looking for an excuse to be slothful, but I don't see any point or good in calling her out on it publicly...

She said she was commanded not to work. So she will not be getting a job. She said so publicly. It's not wrong to question this.

[shadow]

I will say that great things are in the works. We are preparing for incredible things to come to pass. I feel that what I am doing is a part of that.

I agree with that. But The Lord hasn't yet changed the spelling in my scriptures from "the sweat of thy brow" to " the sweat of thy bro." so I still work to provide for my family including myself. I hope you find a place soon. I'd donate my motor home but it needs an engine rebuild X(

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I will say that great things are in the works. We are preparing for incredible things to come to pass. I feel that what I am doing is a part of that.

I agree with that. But The Lord hasn't yet changed the spelling in my scriptures from "the sweat of thy brow" to " the sweat of thy bro." so I still work to provide for my family including myself. I hope you find a place soon. I'd donate my motor home but it needs an engine rebuild X(

Was the Lord speaking to Adam and not Eve in that instance? Does your wife work?

[FoxMammaWisdom]

she can't work to get gain.

But is taking care of a person's basic human needs - like food and housing, "getting gain"?

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Love the new avatar, iwritestuff.

My sarcasm detector is broken today, so I'm not sure what to make of that.

I'm guessing Obrien was sincere.

I really like it too. I appreciate self-deprecating humor.

Ditto, I think the avatar is hilarious - exactly something I'd say about myself!

[iWriteStuff]

Does your wife work?

If I even asked my wife that question, she would probably put an end to my life. Abruptly.

[jdawg1012]

I'd like to think of a world in which people trusted each other. Or at least were willing to give to each other. If you have to give, YOU ARE COMMANDED TO GIVE, TO ESTEEM YOUR BROTHER AS BETTER THAN YOURSELF. If you don't have anything to give, you are supposed (admonished) to say, "I would give, if I had to give."

Mosiah 4:

21 And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another.

22 And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done.

23 I say unto you, wo be unto that man, for his substance shall perish with him; and now, I say these things unto those who are rich as pertaining to the things of this world.

24 And again, I say unto the poor, ye who have not and yet have sufficient, that ye remain from day to day; I mean all you who deny the beggar, because ye have not; I would that ye say in your hearts that: I give not because I have not, but if I had I would give.

I don't see a single means test in that scripture. Nor any other scripture. The problem here isn't one MERELY of pride, it's also one of disdain for one's fellow man. Meili, NO WHERE IN HER POST SAID SHE WAS UNWILLING TO WORK, OR BE IDLE. She said she wasn't to work for compensation. Can you not fathom the idea of "Going about doing good," that precludes taking money for that. Can you not imagine a world in which I help you just because you exist, and you do the same for someone else. How petty and tragic a mental prison to never imagine charity, just because. The fascination with compensation is indeed the love of money, the root of all evil. Zion isn't build with money, it's built in the hearts of men and women who are willing to say, "I'll help you just because you ask." Only people concerned with accumulating money are worried about what people are going to do with it. "

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" King Benjamin clearly says if you turn away the beggar, in your abundance, you lose your own soul. He never said to berate them or teach them what you think they're doing wrong with their lives. Meili didn't ask for booze, she asked for a PLACE TO LIVE. Would to God we lived in Israel, with an inheritance, where once you owned a home, it was yours. But we don't, and she wants to do good. Why not help her and maybe, just maybe, both of you would be served.

Judges 7:2

And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me.

Too many people think they deserve what God has given them. It's disgusting. God gave you out of the goodness of His heart, and I here swear you'll be judged by the pettiness of yours if you condemn someone you don't understand, merely because you fail to believe God could ask someone to do something outside of your understanding.

Who has prayed about this with a contrite heart? All I see are the PHILOSOPHIES of MEN, MINGLED with scripture. I can provide far more scriptures about mercy, compassion, and charity, than you ever could about "earning your keep." How do you know Meili's not earning her keep in a different way than you chose to? You all say the same things, but in different forms, that people have said about all the prophets, let alone layman: that they were lazy, that they were treasure hunters, that they didn't work, or whatever. It all goes back to the argument of them not deserving what someone else gave them. No one deserves ANYTHING. I'm not saying Meili is a prophet in the sense of Jeremiah, Elijah (also a beggar), John the Baptist or Joseph Smith (also a non-worker for portions of his life), but what if she were? Your mocking and criticism is the same as they received.

Well guess what, YOU DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING you think you may have earned, either. You're not good enough, you're not industrious enough, and you're not smart enough to do anything without everyone else's help, especially God's. And just because you think you somehow earned what you have, doesn't make it true. GOD GIVES THE INCREASE.

So if you can't do anything but criticize a beggar, go your way and sin no more. You have nothing to add to the conversation. The criticisms have already been made by others. Are you so bored IN YOUR OWN IDLENESS that all you can do is beat a dead horse?

Beams and motes, indeed.

[Obrien]

Love the new avatar, iwritestuff.

My sarcasm detector is broken today, so I'm not sure what to make of that.

I'm guessing Obrien was sincere.

I really like it too. I appreciate self-deprecating humor.

THIS iwritestuff ^^^. :-BD
Do you really think I believe 2+2=5?

[Robert Sinclair]

Many a housewife work day and night and receive not one penny for all their labors. Is that the barter system? ♡

I believe what she was saying is her mission at present was not to receive one penny or single cent of money.

No purse or script but to minister or labor or work the works of righteousness and goodness without any money transactions.

Best place of course to be able to do free work without any pay is with her children and a loving husband.

Not knowing all that has transpired or what would be needed to restore that which was lost, kindness should be shown by fellow children of God with the love of charity in its sole discretion of one's own heart. ♡

[jdawg1012]

Many a housewife work day and night and receive not one penny for all their labors. Is that the barter system? ♡

I believe what she was saying is her mission at present was not to receive one penny or single cent of money.

No purse or script but to minister or labor or work the works of righteousness and goodness without any money transactions.

Best place of course to be able to do free work without any pay is with her children and a loving husband.

Not knowing all that has transpired or what would be needed to restore that which was lost, kindness should be shown by fellow children of God with the love of charity in its sole discretion of one's own heart. ♡

Amen.

[Lizzy60]

I'd like to think of a world in which people trusted each other. Or at least were willing to give to each other. If you have to give, YOU ARE COMMANDED TO GIVE, TO ESTEEM YOUR BROTHER AS BETTER THAN YOURSELF. If you don't have anything to give, you are supposed (admonished) to say, "I would give, if I had to give."

Mosiah 4:

21 And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another.

22 And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done.

23 I say unto you, wo be unto that man, for his substance shall perish with him; and now, I say these things unto those who are rich as pertaining to the things of this world.

24 And again, I say unto the poor, ye who have not and yet have sufficient, that ye remain from day to day; I mean all you who deny the beggar, because ye have not; I would that ye say in your hearts that: I give not because I have not, but if I had I would give.

I don't see a single means test in that scripture. Nor any other scripture. The problem here isn't one MERELY of pride, it's also one of disdain for one's fellow man. Meili, NO WHERE IN HER POST SAID SHE WAS UNWILLING TO WORK, OR BE IDLE. She said she wasn't to work for compensation. Can you not fathom the idea of "Going about doing good," that precludes taking money for that. Can you not imagine a world in which I help you just because you exist, and you do the same for someone else. How petty and tragic a mental prison to never imagine charity, just because. The fascination with compensation is indeed the love of money, the root of all evil. Zion isn't build with money, it's built in the hearts of men and women who are willing to say, "I'll help you just because you ask." Only people concerned with accumulating money are worried about what people are going to do with it. "

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" King Benjamin clearly says if you turn away the beggar, in your abundance, you lose your own soul. He never said to berate them or teach them what you think they're doing wrong with their lives. Meili didn't ask for booze, she asked for a PLACE TO LIVE. Would to God we lived in Israel, with an inheritance, where once you owned a home, it was yours. But we don't, and she wants to do good. Why not help her and maybe, just maybe, both of you would be served.

Judges 7:2

And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me.

Too many people think they deserve what God has given them. It's disgusting. God gave you out of the goodness of His heart, and I here swear you'll be judged by the pettiness of yours if you condemn someone you don't understand, merely because you fail to believe God could ask someone to do something outside of your understanding.

Who has prayed about this with a contrite heart? All I see are the PHILOSOPHIES of MEN, MINGLED with scripture. I can provide far more scriptures about mercy, compassion, and charity, than you ever could about "earning your keep." How do you know Meili's not earning her keep in a different way than you chose to? You all say the same things, but in different forms, that people have said about all the prophets, let alone layman: that they were lazy, that they were treasure hunters, that they didn't work, or whatever. It all goes back to the argument of them not deserving what someone else gave them. No one deserves ANYTHING. I'm not saying Meili is a prophet in the sense of Jeremiah, Elijah (also a beggar), John the Baptist or Joseph Smith (also a non-worker for portions of his life), but what if she were? Your mocking and criticism is the same as they received.

Well guess what, YOU DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING you think you may have earned, either. You're not good enough, you're not industrious enough, and you're not smart enough to do anything without everyone else's help, especially God's. And just because you think you somehow earned what you have, doesn't make it true. GOD GIVES THE INCREASE.

So if you can't do anything but criticize a beggar, go your way and sin no more. You have nothing to add to the conversation. The criticisms have already been made by others. Are you so bored IN YOUR OWN IDLENESS that all you can do is beat a dead horse?

Beams and motes, indeed.

+1,000,000

[AI2.0]

I consider my 'church' to be the family of God, so basically, I am asking my church for help by coming here.

Do you belong to one of the Snuffer communities? I know you followed him around for his talks. Maybe ask members of the community to donate their tithing to your cause, whatever cause that may be. By the way, what is your cause/ministry?

No, I'm not a member of a community.

I don't discuss my mission openly because I dont really understand it. The Lord gives me impressions and I have a vague idea of his purposes with me, but I dont believe I will totally understand it until the work is done. I have been open with the things the Lord has shared with me and so I believe that if it is important to anyone, they can pray and get some insight themselves.

I will say that great things are in the works. We are preparing for incredible things to come to pass. I feel that what I am doing is a part of that.

I understand if you don't want to share you mission openly.

Small farm,
I'm sorry if you feel I was being critical, I'm simply asking questions to get clarity. I assumed that asking questions might help some out there who believe in her and her ministry to consider helping her.



Jezebel, I am curious why you feel you cannot work and still fulfill your ministry. You are not LDS, but I am and in the LDS church, we have examples in our scriptures which suggest that it is acceptable to work and to fulfill our missions in life at the same time. We believe in self-reliance and we do not believe in a paid ministry, so members need to work to provide for themselves. King Benjamin's example in Mosiah 2:14 points this out;

He was their king and Prophet and reminded the people;
"And even I myself, have labored with mine own hands that I might serve you, and that ye should not be laden with taxes , and that there should nothing come upon you which was grievous to be borne.."

Also, when Korihor accused Alma of not laboring, but living off the members of the church, he said "I have never received so much as even one senine for my labor(in the church); neither has any of my brethren, save it were in the judgment seat, and then we have received only according to law for our time." Alma 30:33.

There are times when members do not work for money, such as full-time missionaries, but they are set apart for a temporary time to do so--many of them work long hours before their ministry to help pay their expenses.

If you cannot find someone to pay for your expenses now, maybe you could reconsider and work for a while until you have enough money saved or can find others to support you in your ministry?

[ajax]

@jdawg, I don't think there is anything wrong with *GULP* asking why a fully capable adult who wants to live in your home and is fully capable of getting a job, will not get a job. Asking questions is never bad. Flame throwing us for doing so however...

Nor does it mean we are evil and bad and don't want to give.

Perhaps you could end this now by stop talking and giving her a room in your house.

@Robert, she's not my housewife

[Robert Sinclair]

Ajax your in Texas, no worries. ♡

[SmallFarm]

Small farm,
I'm sorry if you feel I was being critical, I'm simply asking questions to get clarity. I assumed that asking questions might help some out there who believe in her and her ministry to consider helping her.

I didn't have an issue with any of your posts in this thread. It's okay to discuss points of doctrine to reason gently with a person you don't understand or have a difference of opinion with.

[iWriteStuff]

+1,000,000

Careful, most of us can't count that high.

[jdawg1012]

@jdawg, I don't think there is anything wrong with *GULP* asking why a fully capable adult who wants to live in your home and is fully capable of getting a job, will not get a job. Asking questions is never bad. Flame throwing us for doing so however...

Nor does it mean we are evil and bad and don't want to give.

Perhaps you could end this now by stop talking and giving her a room in your house.

I never said there was something wrong with asking why she cannot work. Although it's clearly already been explained, in the first post, and she's repeatedly "asked," and answered. Being stubborn in "asking" (a misnomer, to be sure, as most of the objections are STATEMENTS not QUESTIONS), means you're unwilling to accept the given answer. Moreover, the meme posted by senb yesterday (now deleted), OI's post (now deleted), the allusion to the helicopter (from the story of a man unwilling to accept help), or the hyperbole of not eating corn unless it is shucked, are all ridiculous comparisons, meant as criticism.

asking why a fully capable adult who wants to live in your home and is fully capable of getting a job, will not get a job

You're not asking anymore once she's given you an answer. I realize passive-aggression is inbred in "Mormons," but criticism veiled as a question isn't some "get out of scrutiny free" card. (Phrasing statements in the form of a question is passive-aggressive, if you were ignorant of that fact). The "question" has been answered numerous times. I keep seeing people say things like, "The rules don't apply to you," or "Those rules just apply to the rest of us." Those aren't questions, ajax, try as you might to make them sound innocent, most posters have been downright rude to her.

No one flamed you, but the truth does cut to the very center. If you can't help, or don't want to, you (or anyone else) have no reason to tell her she's doing something wrong in her decision to follow God's plan for her. Whether you believe her or not, you have no reason to respond to her petition by telling her she's not keeping your interpretation of a commandment given to Adam. Which interpretation is thoroughly discredited by scriptures. There's lots of scriptures telling people not to take money, and just go do things, and be provided for by others, there's none that say you have to take money to work. OR that working without remuneration is being idle. Those are just PHILOSOPHIES OF MEN, MINGLED WITH SCRIPTURE.

Nor does it mean we are evil and bad and don't want to give.

If you have to give, and do anything other than give, then obviously you don't want to give. The criticism is evil, I don't care if you white wash it into "questions." The vast majority has not been questions, and even those in question form, came after she had already EXPLAINED. So they're just excuses.

Perhaps you could end this now by stop talking and giving her a room in your house.

I'm willing to see about letting her use an entire house, but it's far from where her children are and wouldn't work (she stated the geographic location she needed to live in). If it came to that, I'd be more than willing. You're apparently ignorant of the fact that, like my father, I've taken in many people into my home, friend, or stranger, and sometimes its worked out great, and sometimes not, but I've always helped when I could. You can read about some of the instances in my posting history. I've put my money where my mouth is, thank you very much.

I'd send her the money to help (if she'd even accept it, Robert offered), but I don't have it at the moment, because I'm actually providing for someone else to eat every month, out of my own pocket, as well as devoting my spare time to a widow who needs a friend. Be careful where you make intimations, because they may just condemn you further. I'm doing what I can, and I don't deride people's circumstances when they ask for financial help. I either give it, or I don't, but I don't tell them it's their fault, or they're breaking the commandments.

In point of fact, all of you are breaking commandments every day, probably every moment. That doesn't stop you from begging God for help. No one is worthy of help, but you lose your salvation if you can do something but make a life of justifying why you choose not to.

That is all.

[Original_Intent]

Most won't understand you Jez but I think it's wonderful that you have decided to buck the Babylon system of government. :ymhug:

Bucking the system by becoming a beneficiary of others charity? Oh the trials the Lord places upon us!

I'll also say that you should not promote your opinion by deleting posts of those who disagree with you. Seems like power continues to corrupt.

[ajax]

Moreover, the meme posted by senb yesterday (now deleted), OI's post (now deleted), the allusion to the helicopter (from the story of a man unwilling to accept help), or the hyperbole of not eating corn unless it is shucked, are all ridiculous comparisons, meant as criticism.

Um, I didn't chime in until page 3, so perhaps I missed those.

You're not asking anymore once she's given you an answer. I realize passive-aggression is inbred in "Mormons," but criticism veiled as a question isn't some "get out of scrutiny free" card. (Phrasing statements in the form of a question is passive-aggressive, if you were ignorant of that fact). The "question" has been answered numerous times. I keep seeing people say things like, "The rules don't apply to you," or "Those rules just apply to the rest of us." Those aren't questions, ajax, try as you might to make them sound innocent, most posters have been downright rude to her.

Please address me. Have I been rude?

No one flamed you, but the truth does cut to the very center. If you can't help, or don't want to, you (or anyone else) have no reason to tell her she's doing something wrong in her decision to follow God's plan for her. Whether you believe her or not, you have no reason to respond to her petition by telling her she's not keeping your interpretation of a commandment given to Adam. Which interpretation is thoroughly discredited by scriptures. There's lots of scriptures telling people not to take money, and just go do things, and be provided for by others, there's none that say you have to take money to work. OR that working without remuneration is being idle. Those are just PHILOSOPHIES OF MEN, MINGLED WITH SCRIPTURE.

You're definetly flaming jdawg. Please address me. When did I say she's not keeping my interpretation of a commandment? or the scriptures?

If you have to give, and do anything other than give, then obviously you don't want to give. The criticism is evil, I don't care if you white wash it into "questions." The vast majority has not been questions, and even those in question form, came after she had already EXPLAINED. So they're just excuses.

This is a forum bro. Chill out. Conversations, questions, fleshing out is the name of the game.

Perhaps you could end this now by stop talking and giving her a room in your house.

I'm willing to see about letting her use an entire house, but it's far from where her children are and wouldn't work (she stated the geographic location she needed to live in). If it came to that, I'd be more than willing. You're apparently ignorant of the fact that, like my father, I've taken in many people into my home, friend, or stranger, and sometimes its worked out great, and sometimes not, but I've always helped when I could. You can read about some of the instances in my posting history. I've put my money where my mouth is, thank you very much.

And you're ignorant of the fact of my heart and anything I do. And since my right hand doesn't know what my left hand does, I won't be telling you.

I'd send her the money to help (if she'd even accept it, Robert offered), but I don't have it at the moment, because I'm actually providing for someone else to eat every month, out of my own pocket, as well as devoting my spare time to a widow who needs a friend. Be careful where you make intimations, because they may just condemn you further. I'm doing what I can, and I don't deride people's circumstances when they ask for financial help. I either give it, or I don't, but I don't tell them it's their fault, or they're breaking the commandments.

Please tell me where I derided, told her it is her fault and told her she is breaking commandments. Flame throwing.

In point of fact, all of you are breaking commandments every day, probably every moment. That doesn't stop you from begging God for help. No one is worthy of help, but you lose your salvation if you can do something but make a life of justifying why you choose not to.

Just like you just did above?

[SmallFarm]

[MOD] Any posts that were deleted in this thread by myself as a moderator action, were done so do to a clear violation of forum rules. As many here know, I usually PM someone before taking a moderator action, but do to the insulting implication of said post, I felt that deleting said post was called for to protect a forum member I perceived to be under attack. Furthermore, a PM was sent to the poster explaining why I took my actions.

[Original_Intent]

Most won't understand you Jez but I think it's wonderful that you have decided to buck the Babylon system of government. :ymhug:

Bucking the system by becoming a beneficiary of others charity? Oh the trials the Lord places upon us!

I'll also say that you should not promote your opinion by deleting posts of those who disagree with you. Seems like power continues to corrupt.

I mistakenly figured a post of mine had been deleted due to jdawg saying it had been deleted. My apologies to Smallfarm for the false accusation I made based on my incorrect assumption.