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[mirkwood]

but it is better than the "All is well in Zion" lip service we hear each April in General Conference.

That isn't what I hear in April...or October.

I feel sorry for you.

[Obrien]

Durzan had an informative post this morning to foster a more excellent forum. I agree with his advice.

In accordance with his recommendation, I'm bumping an old thread.

TL;DR - Go read / sign the petition.

Merry Christmas everyone.

[Obrien]

Silly me, his post was in October... I guess sacrament meeting just isn't holding my attention today...

[David13]

Silly me, his post was in October... I guess sacrament meeting just isn't holding my attention today...

Well don't feel bad Obrien (think of your name). I believe that Sacrament meeting will not hold my attention today to the point that I'm not going. But then I'm a bit flu/cold/sinus infection maybe contagious so I have reason.

Transparency.

First, I saw your petition (or theirs) and didn't sign it.

I also haven't read all the 11 pages here since 2015.

But the way I feel about transparency is, to me, and I know this is a very simple and simple minded analysis, but to me transparency is as if we were to have a glass church, a glass Temple so that anyone just passing by or visiting could see inside and see all.

If there is transparency then the entire world sees what becomes transparent. And that seems unnecessary.

Maybe it's just that I never wanted to live in a glass house. Nor worship in a glass church or Temple.

I have other complaints or gripes, but that isn't one of mine.
dc

[Obrien]

Silly me, his post was in October... I guess sacrament meeting just isn't holding my attention today...

Well don't feel bad Obrien (think of your name). I believe that Sacrament meeting will not hold my attention today to the point that I'm not going. But then I'm a bit flu/cold/sinus infectionT maybe contagious so I have reason.

Transparency.

First, I say your petition (or theirs) and didn't sign it.

I also haven't read all the 11 pages here since 2015.

But the way I feel about transparency is, to me, and I know this is a very simple and simple minded analysis, but to me transparency is as if we were to have a glass church, a flass Temple so that anyone just passing by or visiting could see inside and see all.

If there is transparency then the entire world sees what becomes transparent. And that seems unnecessary.

Maybe it's just that I never wanted to live in a glass house. Nor worship in a glass church or Temple.

I have other complaints or gripes, but that isn't one of mine.
dc

If I had them, I no longer have complaints or gripes about tithing. I simply believe in common consent and openness, to those making the contributions.

I hope you feel better soon brother.

[Obrien]

In the spirit of transparency and full disclosure, I no longer have gripes about tithing because I have opted out of paying money exclusively to LDSCo. I still give fast offerings, mainly to pretend the money may help my local area, but I make no contribution to the tithing funds.

My wife and I jointly select local charities, shelters, crisis centers etc and make our donations. For the last few years we have also adopted a stake in cooperation with liahona children's foundation. They do good work, and I encourage everyone to donate their tithing to LCF instead of LDSCo. It's a pity Mormon kids are going hungry all around the world and we're busy transacting business as usual in America. God have mercy on us...

[shadow]

Tithing isn't ours. We don't have say in where it's spent, scripturally we never have had a say. If we don't pay it to where the Lord has revealed as found in the D&C (and biblically as a 2nd witness) then it's just a nice donation, but it isn't tithing in any sense of the word. God have mercy on those who refuse to tithe. Those who receive tithing have the job of dispersing tithing and they have been directed as to where and how to spend it-also found in the D&C. Those who don't like it can pound sand, as they often do.

[Thinker]

In the spirit of transparency and full disclosure, I no longer have gripes about tithing because I have opted out of paying money exclusively to LDSCo. I still give fast offerings, mainly to pretend the money may help my local area, but I make no contribution to the tithing funds.

My wife and I jointly select local charities, shelters, crisis centers etc and make our donations. For the last few years we have also adopted a stake in cooperation with liahona children's foundation. They do good work, and I encourage everyone to donate their tithing to LCF instead of LDSCo. It's a pity Mormon kids are going hungry all around the world and we're busy transacting business as usual in America. God have mercy on us...

Good ideas. We also have been sending our tithes to those in need and in more open ways.

I believe that part of the greatest commandments (which prioritize above all laws and prophets) is being wise stewards of our tithes and offerings - which involves ensuring sacred money is handled only by those who are open, honest and accountable in their dealings. Unfortunately the lds tithing handlers don’t qualify. The church helps inspire a good sense of community however when it comes to finances, it is the church of JESUS CHRIST in name only.

I put myself in the shoes of a parent of starving children in a poor country living under horrible conditions who needs and DESERVES sacred tithes (Deut 14:28-29 & Christ’s commandments). It is morally and spiritually wrong to deny those of tithes intended for them.

[wildad]

If there was corruption in the church do you think they would tell you the real numbers? So what good would a published budget do?
If there was no corruption would you on the left be satisfied with how the money is being spent? Of course not. You would never be satisfied until:
1. A complete audit was performed, paid for by the church but not controlled by the church.
2. The church agreed to re-allocate spending to fit your point of view, demanding in General Conference and anywhere else people would listen that your changes be made.
That of course would turn the church into a liberal NGO, throwing money at social causes with the usual pitiful results.
So, really, this budget thing is just another veiled effort to destroy a fine organization. Fortunately those in charge understand this clearly.

[LucianAMD]

In the spirit of transparency and full disclosure, I no longer have gripes about tithing because I have opted out of paying money exclusively to LDSCo. I still give fast offerings, mainly to pretend the money may help my local area, but I make no contribution to the tithing funds.

My wife and I jointly select local charities, shelters, crisis centers etc and make our donations. For the last few years we have also adopted a stake in cooperation with liahona children's foundation. They do good work, and I encourage everyone to donate their tithing to LCF instead of LDSCo. It's a pity Mormon kids are going hungry all around the world and we're busy transacting business as usual in America. God have mercy on us...

Based on a post you made a few years ago and praying and pondering, giving to LCF is mostly how I pay my tithing now. They really are a great organization.

[BeNotDeceived]

In the spirit of transparency and full disclosure, I no longer have gripes about tithing because I have opted out of paying money exclusively to LDSCo. I still give fast offerings, mainly to pretend the money may help my local area, but I make no contribution to the tithing funds.

My wife and I jointly select local charities, shelters, crisis centers etc and make our donations. For the last few years we have also adopted a stake in cooperation with liahona children's foundation. They do good work, and I encourage everyone to donate their tithing to LCF instead of LDSCo. It's a pity Mormon kids are going hungry all around the world and we're busy transacting business as usual in America. God have mercy on us...

Based on a post you made a few years ago and praying and pondering, giving to LCF is mostly how I pay my tithing now. They really are a great organization.

Interesting, me thinks 2 investigate further.

Paying tithing, to some degree is us being acted upon and LCF allows us to individualize our actions. Likewise impactful investing attempts to do more than return mere dollars. 10% of my investments are now made on things that I feel fall within the definition of what is called an “Impact Investor”. Jeremy Feakins is who first introduced the concept to me when I began looking for ways to invest in OTEC. Two weeks ago today I posted this, is the first sentence of a draft thread about the power of two, that expands on the doubling principal. Moses 3:5 encapsulates it well, and acting while being acted upon by our desire to please God may be another example of the general principle.

[Obrien]

In the spirit of transparency and full disclosure, I no longer have gripes about tithing because I have opted out of paying money exclusively to LDSCo. I still give fast offerings, mainly to pretend the money may help my local area, but I make no contribution to the tithing funds.

My wife and I jointly select local charities, shelters, crisis centers etc and make our donations. For the last few years we have also adopted a stake in cooperation with liahona children's foundation. They do good work, and I encourage everyone to donate their tithing to LCF instead of LDSCo. It's a pity Mormon kids are going hungry all around the world and we're busy transacting business as usual in America. God have mercy on us...

Based on a post you made a few years ago and praying and pondering, giving to LCF is mostly how I pay my tithing now. They really are a great organization.

LucianAMD - I'm not on ldsff a lot these days, but I want you to know I read your post this morning and literally cried in response (btw, I'm not a big crier. I've cried a couple of times this decade so far). LCF (I understand their name is changing soon) DOES do fantastic work. They're legit. I'm so happy to hear your also supporting them. If nothing else, your giving to LCF alone had made this thread of value.
Peace and love to you.

[Obrien]

Tithing isn't ours. We don't have say in where it's spent, scripturally we never have had a say. If we don't pay it to where the Lord has revealed as found in the D&C (and biblically as a 2nd witness) then it's just a nice donation, but it isn't tithing in any sense of the word. God have mercy on those who refuse to tithe. Those who receive tithing have the job of dispersing tithing and they have been directed as to where and how to spend it-also found in the D&C. Those who don't like it can pound sand, as they often do.

Shadow - I am grateful for your plea of mercy on my behalf. Please keep pleading on my behalf.

Also in response to your post, nothing you "have" is actually yours. It can all be taken away, and you'll certainly lose claim to "your" stuff at death. We all need to get over the myth of possession of property on earth being an important topic.

I prefer to take responsibility for my giving, and do so with full appreciation of my course of action. Give where you want, brother, the KEY is giving with a willing heart.

[Obrien]

Bump, to offset Shadow's / Art Vandelay's bump thread.

Fyi - Liahona Children's has changed names to Bountiful children's something or other. You can find it on Google.

I make no change in my recommendation to quit paying tithing to LDSCo. The love of money corrupts men and organizations, and a couple hundred billion is lots of fertilizer for corruption. Tithe to someone or thing that needs the help.