Why all the new endowment movies?

[gkearney]

Why is our temple endowment almost identical to what has been going on in Masonic temples for centuries??? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I'm curious: Who told you this? I have spoken with LDS masons who claim there is no similarity between our temples and Masonic rites. There isn't even a global Masonic standard for those rites; local groups are allowed to create their own standards.

I am an LDS mason. I wrote my thesis on the topic of the temple and Freemasonry. I will address this topic in the morning.

[brlenox]

if Adam had blood group ‘A’, and Eve had blood group ‘B’, all of the ‘ABO’ blood groups (A, AS, B. O) could arise.

I don't know that much about blood types, but since O- is the Universal Donor to every other blood type I have to wonder if one or both had Type O.

The most ancient bloodlines of domesticated canines - Sight Hounds - are used as blood donors for all the other breeds of dog for the same reason Type O- in humans is used.

If someone is labeled as blood type A, that person is genetically either AA or AO. My husband is A and I am A, our child is O. That means that both him and I are both AO genetically. Which makes sense we both carry the "O" each of us has 1 parent that is O,O

I can pass on A or O depending on how the dice land. And my spouse can either pass on an A or O. So our children have 3 options: AA, AO, OO

Hope that helps.

AA = has a predilection for addictions.

AO = Loves Jamaican music

OO = A problem child #:-s

[LukeAir2008]

I went to the temple last night and saw they had another new movie. This makes 3 in the last year from what I've seen. This third one was painful to watch because of the horrible acting. But it did have cool visual effects... Anyway why do they keep making new ones? Seems like a waste of money to me.

Probably because Bro. Mike Norton keeps going to the Temple, records the entire endowment ceremony, and then puts it on You Tube.

Good ol' mikey... He used to be one of my neighbors. Interesting fellow that one...

Never heard of the guy...so were there any repercussions with his Stake President for doing what he did?

No, he appears to be active/attends meetings and also possibly serves in Temple. He even provides his number so anybody can call him to discuss temple matters.

[inho]

Never heard of the guy...so were there any repercussions with his Stake President for doing what he did?

No, he appears to be active/attends meetings and also possibly serves in Temple. He even provides his number so anybody can call him to discuss temple matters.

Actually, he resigned his membership in 2002. Those things he is doing now, he does under false identity.

[oneClimbs]

I went to the temple last night and saw they had another new movie. This makes 3 in the last year from what I've seen. This third one was painful to watch because of the horrible acting. But it did have cool visual effects... Anyway why do they keep making new ones? Seems like a waste of money to me.

It's a good question. I can't speak for the actual reasoning but I'll give you my own theory. I think that there have been issues with many people who take the endowment a little too literally. By providing three different versions it appears to communicate that the underlying stories, symbols, and such are fluid in that they can be expressed differently over time. The way the actors look and appear doesn't matter, neither does the setting or the color and shape of the forbidden fruit. I find that switching between the various versions has the effect of allowing me to focus on the underlying principles while searching the unique aspects of each film for symbols allows me to use my imagination in a manner where the Spirit can teach me new things that may be connected or unconnected to the endowment. Perhaps they are connected to doctrines or experiences that give meaning to me personally and what I happen to be experiencing in life. Maybe there is an eternal meaning to learn or a meaning just for this one time in my life when I need it.

Is it a waste of money? Not sure. Was it a waste of money for Solomon, the Israelites, the masons and craftsmen to lift their efforts, creativity and craftsmanship to create something beautiful? Could God have created the earth out of cheaper stuff? Maybe going for black and white sunsets and a flat landscape would have been more economical? ;) I'm being a little playful here, no ripping sarcasm intended.

There was a lot of human effort that went into the creation of those videos, a lot people were involved in the art and creating every aspect of those films. I'm sure that those involved were blessed as much as anyone who worked on the temple itself. Art and music aren't valued in education much anymore, at least here in the states. Many see it as a waste of time and money. I'm a graphic designer for a living and I've been involved in art and design my entire life. There is divinity in it, for those who create and for those who benefit from experiencing the creation.

I see these films as art within art and I think humanity is blessed by art. I think human effort to create beautiful things that can teach and uplift is a good use of human effort and resources. I agree with you that the acting is very lacking in many respects and perhaps even distracting in others. But I dunno, maybe it is good that it is there. We don't always get a good "performance" from others in this church, from church leaders to home teachers, etc. Maybe there is another lesson in there. People don't have to perform perfectly to be a benefit to us and God's work. After all, how well do we perform in the grand scheme, so who are we to criticize?

Again, good question, these are just some of my thoughts.

[gkearney]

Why is our temple endowment almost identical to what has been going on in Masonic temples for centuries??? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I'm curious: Who told you this? I have spoken with LDS masons who claim there is no similarity between our temples and Masonic rites. There isn't even a global Masonic standard for those rites; local groups are allowed to create their own standards.

OK here is a brain dump on this subject.

First off let me establish my credentials in this matter. I am an active and temple attending member of the church. I am also an active Freemason a life member of Franklin Lodge #123 A.F&A.M of Maine. I have also been through the various so called "higher degrees" I am a member of several lodges of research in the U.S., Canada and Australia. I wrote my thesis in university on the relationship between Freemasonry and the development of the temple endowment ritual and other aspects of the church. I have spoken to numerous groups both church related (FAIR and at church sponsored firesides) as well as masonic venues on this subject.

It is wrong to either claim that the temple endowment is "almost identical" to masonic rituals or that "no similarity between our temples and Masonic rites exist". Both statements are vast oversimplifications of the truth. Any Freemason who has gone to the LDS temple will see some rather startling similarities just as any endowed member who, should they read the masonic rituals or join a masonic lodge, will. In particular this is true the areas of the signs and tokens used. However the meaning and purpose of such differ greatly.

Freemasonry, like the temple, uses a ritual drama to teach the morals of mans relationship to man. The temple's focus is upon man relationship to God. While masonic rituals and teachings are moral in nature they are strictly non-sectarian in content. Freemasonry is not a religion and make no claim to be one or to offer any means of salvation outside of the faith the member holds. Be that faith be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism or any other faith tradition .

Beyond the similarities in the signs and tokens and use of the same, the other major points of similarity fall into the area of the teaching method both employ. Both make use of an allegorical drama where the participant takes upon himself the role of the central figure(s) in the drama. In masonry this is Hiram Abiff, the master builder of Solomon's temple. In the endowment drama this is Adam and Eve. In both cases these figures represent the wider audience.

Both the masonic rituals and the temple endowment also employ the use of ritual repetitions in there presentations, the endowment less so in more modern presentations. This results in the ritual having a familiar cadence or rhythm if you will. Questions are asked and answers given in a predictable and prescribe manner where the wording is in set form. For example take this exchange from the opening of the lodge.

Worshipful Mater is the honorific title give to the elected leader of a lodge. The Tyler and Junior Deacon are also elected offices of the lodge. The following is given at every opening of a lodge and is an example of the questions and response method employed in masonry and in similar exchanges between God, Jehovah and Adam in the endowment ritual as a teaching tool.

Worshipful Mater (gives one rap with his gavel, Junior Deacon rises up)--Brother Junior Deacon, the first and constant care of Masons when convened?

Junior Deacon--To see that the Lodge is duly tyled.

Worshipful Mater --You will attend to that part of your duty, and inform the Tyler that we are about to open a Lodge of Entered Apprentice Masons (Fellow Crafts, or Master Masons, as the case may be), and direct him to tyle accordingly.

The Deacon opens the door, and says to the Tyler--Brother Tyler, it is the orders of the Worshipful Master that you tyle this Lodge as an Entered Apprentice (Fellow Crafts, or Master Mason, as the case may be); then closes the door, gives one rap (two, if a Fellow Crafts', or three, if a Masters' Lodge), which is responded to by the Tyler.

Junior Deacon --Worshipful Master, the Lodge is tyled.

Worshipful Mater --How tyled?

Junior Deacon --By a brother of this degree, without the inner door, invested with the proper implement of his office (the sword).

Worshipful Mater --His duty there?

Junior Deacon --To keep off all cowans and eavesdroppers; suffer none to pass or repass, except such as are duly qualified, and have the Worshipful Master's permission. (Sits down.)

Duncan, Malcolm C., Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor, New York: Dick & Fitzgerald, 1866, pp12-13
http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/dun/dun00.htm

Note: cowan (plurals include the standard and common cowans, as well as the obsolete cowanis) from the Scottish Gaelic cobhan (“coffer”, “box”, “ark”).

1. A worker in unmortared stone; a stonemason who has not served an apprenticeship.
2. (freemasonry) A person who attempts to pass himself off as a Freemason without having experienced the rituals or going through the degrees.
3. (slang) A sneak; an inquisitive or prying person.
4. (in attributive use) uninitiated, outside, “profane”

The question that is then presented is how did our temple endowment rituals come to have the similarities in form and in some cases details to the masonic rituals. To this we must clear up a few historical points. First there is no historical evidence that links the freemasons to antiquity. This despite the wide held belief, particularly in Joseph Smith day, that such existed. Rather the rituals of freemasonry grew out of the stone masons guilds of the middle ages. The modern rituals we know today were codified in the late 17th and early 18th centuries in the British Isles.

Likewise there is no historical evidence of anything like the codified temple endowment we see today in antiquity. There are parts of the endowment which have biblical types, for example the washing and anointing where we reference the bible as the source. In the Kirtland period there was the ordinance of foot washing from the bible as well for example. Foot washing continues to this day in the Church of Christ (Rigdon) a smaller branch of the restoration and is reported to be a part of the rare second anointing in the LDS tradition.

It is my opinion and the central idea of my thesis that Joseph Smith used elements of the masonic rituals of his day, elements which in North America continue to be found, in developing the ritual of the endowment. He did this because many of the early saint were themselves freemasons and or were familiar with the ritual forms he was employing. They would therefor focus on what the endowment was teaching and not on how it was being taught.

This brings me to the other point of my thesis, that there is and should be a separation between the endowment, what is taught and the ritual or presentation, how it is taught. The endowment teaches eternal ideas found through out time and indeed in many religious traditions as well as some distinctive to us. The endowment ritual is a method to present the endowment. Some of that ritual clearly originated with masonic practices others come from bible traditions. While the truths in the endowment do not change that ritual that we employ does change and has changed even in my lifetime. So, in the title of my thesis we have the "Message (the endowment) and the Messenger (the endowment ritual)"

The post above does however get one thing right. In masonry there is no central world wide authority. Each geographic division, state and provinces in the United States, Canada, Mexico and Australia for example have Grand Lodges which govern the craft, as it is sometimes called, with in that jurisdiction. Every Master Mason is a member of the Grand Lodge in their area. The highest degree in masonry, I might add, is the third or Master Mason degree. All the other so-called "higher" degree are subordinate to the Grand Lodge of Master Masons found in each state or country. Even with in the United States there are subtle but clearly recognizable differences in the rituals of the various Grand Lodges. These difference can be more pronounced as one move from country to county. What is the same however is the moral teaching that these rituals present.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion that might exist on this issue.

Greg Kearney

[kittycat51]

Thank you Greg Kearney. Very interesting.

[buffalo_girl]

If someone is labeled as blood type A, that person is genetically either AA or AO. My husband is A and I am A, our child is O. That means that both him and I are both AO genetically. Which makes sense we both carry the "O" each of us has 1 parent that is O,O

I can pass on A or O depending on how the dice land. And my spouse can either pass on an A or O. So our children have 3 options: AA, AO, OO

Hope that helps.

AA = has a predilection for addictions.

AO = Loves Jamaican music

OO = A problem child #:-s

OK (no pun intended) - where does the 'negative' come from?

I have type O - . Two sons from my first marriage were both O - . Youngest son from his A + dad is A + .

We are each one 'a problem child' & prone to addictions' regardless, and I love Jamaican music!

[oneClimbs]

...I wrote my thesis in university on the relationship between Freemasonry and the development of the temple endowment ritual and other aspects of the church.

So Greg, where do we get a copy of your thesis?

[gkearney]

...I wrote my thesis in university on the relationship between Freemasonry and the development of the temple endowment ritual and other aspects of the church.

So Greg, where do we get a copy of your thesis?

Mine was not a doctoral thesis so it did not end up in the Edith Cowan University library to be preserved for forever and this was well before the advent of typing such academic papers on computers (yes I'm that old). However you can hear the lecture I gave at the FAIR conference years ago at their website.

[JohnnyL]

Why is our temple endowment almost identical to what has been going on in Masonic temples for centuries??? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I'm curious: Who told you this? I have spoken with LDS masons who claim there is no similarity between our temples and Masonic rites. There isn't even a global Masonic standard for those rites; local groups are allowed to create their own standards.

I read the Masonic rituals in the library many, many years ago. Some of the processes are similar, along with the idea (and more) of signs and tokens, but the content is generally very different. And for those who have seen the video, we do not have live dancing girls perform in our temple ceremonies. ;)

Col. Flagg,
What anti-Mormon video did you watch that says they are "almost identical"?

[gkearney]

Why is our temple endowment almost identical to what has been going on in Masonic temples for centuries??? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I'm curious: Who told you this? I have spoken with LDS masons who claim there is no similarity between our temples and Masonic rites. There isn't even a global Masonic standard for those rites; local groups are allowed to create their own standards.

I read the Masonic rituals in the library many, many years ago. Some of the processes are similar, along with the idea (and more) of signs and tokens, but the content is generally very different. And for those who have seen the video, we do not have live dancing girls perform in our temple ceremonies. ;)

Col. Flagg,
What anti-Mormon video did you watch that says they are "almost identical"?

Live dancing girls?! I must have missed that in all the lodge meeting I have been to over the years.

[JohnnyL]

Why is our temple endowment almost identical to what has been going on in Masonic temples for centuries??? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I'm curious: Who told you this? I have spoken with LDS masons who claim there is no similarity between our temples and Masonic rites. There isn't even a global Masonic standard for those rites; local groups are allowed to create their own standards.

I read the Masonic rituals in the library many, many years ago. Some of the processes are similar, along with the idea (and more) of signs and tokens, but the content is generally very different. And for those who have seen the video, we do not have live dancing girls perform in our temple ceremonies. ;)

Col. Flagg,
What anti-Mormon video did you watch that says they are "almost identical"?

Live dancing girls?! I must have missed that in all the lodge meeting I have been to over the years.

You did miss it, no doubt, but... Search "Masonic lodge dancing girl". Or better, don't. ;)
I just know, as you imply, it's not typical. That "One bad apple..." thing, I imagine.

[Silver Pie]

Why is our temple endowment almost identical to what has been going on in Masonic temples for centuries??? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I understand that the original masons were the masons who worked on Solomon's temple. Whether that is actually the case or not, I don't know. What I think is that they have a form of what was once performed in ancient temples, but they have lost that knowledge (and probably have changed some of it). Since JS was a mason, I believe he recognized what the things meant and incorporated them.

On the other hand, since we have nothing written down about what Joseph taught in regards to temple ordinances, it is entirely possible that BY came up with the masonic-type things. Maybe he couldn't remember all Joseph taught. Or maybe he did, and saw that it matched what he knew the masons did.

I have never viewed the masonic-LDS temple endowment similarities as anything to be worked up about.

[Silver Pie]

If someone is labeled as blood type A, that person is genetically either AA or AO. My husband is A and I am A, our child is O. That means that both him and I are both AO genetically. Which makes sense we both carry the "O" each of us has 1 parent that is O,O

I can pass on A or O depending on how the dice land. And my spouse can either pass on an A or O. So our children have 3 options: AA, AO, OO

Hope that helps.

That's what I was taught in high school and college, also. And it makes perfect sense to me. If one of them had AO blood and the other had BO blood, their kids could be AB, AO, BO, or OO.

[Silver Pie]

AA = has a predilection for addictions.

AO = Loves Jamaican music

OO = A problem child #:-s

NOOOO! (Falls to knees]

[Silver Pie]

OK here is a brain dump on this subject.
[Lots of info I didn't know before]

Thank you for this information. I think it clears up a lot of misconceptions (including mine).

[Silver Pie]

OK (no pun intended) - where does the 'negative' come from?

I have type O - . Two sons from my first marriage were both O - . Youngest son from his A + dad is A + .

We are each one 'a problem child' & prone to addictions' regardless, and I love Jamaican music!

I have a midwife book that says some women have changed from negative to positive through diet/herbs alone, so maybe there's something to the - + aspects of blood we don't know about.

[djinwa]

"This brings me to the other point of my thesis, that there is and should be a separation between the endowment, what is taught and the ritual or presentation, how it is taught. The endowment teaches eternal ideas found through out time and indeed in many religious traditions as well as some distinctive to us. The endowment ritual is a method to present the endowment."

I guess I don't understand why use rituals to teach. Why not just tell us what we need to know instead of making a bunch of goofy moves.

Seems the rituals are more a way to ensure allegiance to the group, much like would a gang or KKK or tribe or whatever. I saw a tribe in the Amazon put young boy's arms in a tube filled with extremely painful stinging ants. Did they learn something from that?

Not to mention the penalties in the endowment ceremony, which apparently have been removed - I haven't been for a while.

Anyway, we are supposedly able to become gods, but if I was, I would eliminate the busy work. Just teach people straight forward, instead of repeating the same ceremony and trying to imagine what it means. Maybe give people more time with their families.

And the other advantage of that would be fewer accusations of being a cult.

[gkearney]

"This brings me to the other point of my thesis, that there is and should be a separation between the endowment, what is taught and the ritual or presentation, how it is taught. The endowment teaches eternal ideas found through out time and indeed in many religious traditions as well as some distinctive to us. The endowment ritual is a method to present the endowment."

I guess I don't understand why use rituals to teach. Why not just tell us what we need to know instead of making a bunch of goofy moves.
...
Not to mention the penalties in the endowment ceremony, which apparently have been removed - I haven't been for a while.
...

The reason for employing ritual such as this is that having the person who you are trying to teach take part in some form of physical action has long been known to be a more effective means of teaching them than is setting them down and giving them a lecture. Many organizations have seen the value of this. Think of scouting for example. It employs a wide range of rituals, some even borrowed from the Freemasons, to teach young people things. It's true that you could just set them down and lecture them on what you wanted them to know but such an approach would be ineffective.

The penalties were removed 18 years ago in 1999. You really should get out to the temple more. Since that time there have been other changes made to the ritual in particular to the washing and anointing.

[Michelle]

If someone is labeled as blood type A, that person is genetically either AA or AO. My husband is A and I am A, our child is O. That means that both him and I are both AO genetically. Which makes sense we both carry the "O" each of us has 1 parent that is O,O

I can pass on A or O depending on how the dice land. And my spouse can either pass on an A or O. So our children have 3 options: AA, AO, OO

Hope that helps.

AA = has a predilection for addictions.

AO = Loves Jamaican music

OO = A problem child #:-s

OK (no pun intended) - where does the 'negative' come from?

I have type O - . Two sons from my first marriage were both O - . Youngest son from his A + dad is A + .

We are each one 'a problem child' & prone to addictions' regardless, and I love Jamaican music!

"Where does negative come from?"

I didn't see this actually answered yet, so here you go:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rh_blood_group_system

Basically, just another way to determine blood comparability. If my husband and I had different Rh factors, after the first baby, when the mother and baby's blood mix. The mother could develop antibodies ( someone correct me if there is a better word) and pass them on to then baby, killing the child. We, luckily, have a method of protecting the babies now so they live.

I had a friend whose mom, back in the day in Mexico lost all her babies but the first to this.

[brianj]

Why is our temple endowment almost identical to what has been going on in Masonic temples for centuries??? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I'm curious: Who told you this? I have spoken with LDS masons who claim there is no similarity between our temples and Masonic rites. There isn't even a global Masonic standard for those rites; local groups are allowed to create their own standards.

OK here is a brain dump on this subject.

First off let me establish my credentials in this matter. I am an active and temple attending member of the church. I am also an active Freemason a life member of Franklin Lodge #123 A.F&A.M of Maine. I have also been through the various so called "higher degrees" I am a member of several lodges of research in the U.S., Canada and Australia. I wrote my thesis in university on the relationship between Freemasonry and the development of the temple endowment ritual and other aspects of the church. I have spoken to numerous groups both church related (FAIR and at church sponsored firesides) as well as masonic venues on this subject.

It is wrong to either claim that the temple endowment is "almost identical" to masonic rituals or that "no similarity between our temples and Masonic rites exist". Both statements are vast oversimplifications of the truth. Any Freemason who has gone to the LDS temple will see some rather startling similarities just as any endowed member who, should they read the masonic rituals or join a masonic lodge, will. In particular this is true the areas of the signs and tokens used. However the meaning and purpose of such differ greatly.

Freemasonry, like the temple, uses a ritual drama to teach the morals of mans relationship to man. The temple's focus is upon man relationship to God. While masonic rituals and teachings are moral in nature they are strictly non-sectarian in content. Freemasonry is not a religion and make no claim to be one or to offer any means of salvation outside of the faith the member holds. Be that faith be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism or any other faith tradition .

Beyond the similarities in the signs and tokens and use of the same, the other major points of similarity fall into the area of the teaching method both employ. Both make use of an allegorical drama where the participant takes upon himself the role of the central figure(s) in the drama. In masonry this is Hiram Abiff, the master builder of Solomon's temple. In the endowment drama this is Adam and Eve. In both cases these figures represent the wider audience.

Both the masonic rituals and the temple endowment also employ the use of ritual repetitions in there presentations, the endowment less so in more modern presentations. This results in the ritual having a familiar cadence or rhythm if you will. Questions are asked and answers given in a predictable and prescribe manner where the wording is in set form. For example take this exchange from the opening of the lodge.

Worshipful Mater is the honorific title give to the elected leader of a lodge. The Tyler and Junior Deacon are also elected offices of the lodge. The following is given at every opening of a lodge and is an example of the questions and response method employed in masonry and in similar exchanges between God, Jehovah and Adam in the endowment ritual as a teaching tool.

Worshipful Mater (gives one rap with his gavel, Junior Deacon rises up)--Brother Junior Deacon, the first and constant care of Masons when convened?

Junior Deacon--To see that the Lodge is duly tyled.

Worshipful Mater --You will attend to that part of your duty, and inform the Tyler that we are about to open a Lodge of Entered Apprentice Masons (Fellow Crafts, or Master Masons, as the case may be), and direct him to tyle accordingly.

The Deacon opens the door, and says to the Tyler--Brother Tyler, it is the orders of the Worshipful Master that you tyle this Lodge as an Entered Apprentice (Fellow Crafts, or Master Mason, as the case may be); then closes the door, gives one rap (two, if a Fellow Crafts', or three, if a Masters' Lodge), which is responded to by the Tyler.

Junior Deacon --Worshipful Master, the Lodge is tyled.

Worshipful Mater --How tyled?

Junior Deacon --By a brother of this degree, without the inner door, invested with the proper implement of his office (the sword).

Worshipful Mater --His duty there?

Junior Deacon --To keep off all cowans and eavesdroppers; suffer none to pass or repass, except such as are duly qualified, and have the Worshipful Master's permission. (Sits down.)

Duncan, Malcolm C., Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor, New York: Dick & Fitzgerald, 1866, pp12-13
http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/dun/dun00.htm

Note: cowan (plurals include the standard and common cowans, as well as the obsolete cowanis) from the Scottish Gaelic cobhan (“coffer”, “box”, “ark”).

1. A worker in unmortared stone; a stonemason who has not served an apprenticeship.
2. (freemasonry) A person who attempts to pass himself off as a Freemason without having experienced the rituals or going through the degrees.
3. (slang) A sneak; an inquisitive or prying person.
4. (in attributive use) uninitiated, outside, “profane”

The question that is then presented is how did our temple endowment rituals come to have the similarities in form and in some cases details to the masonic rituals. To this we must clear up a few historical points. First there is no historical evidence that links the freemasons to antiquity. This despite the wide held belief, particularly in Joseph Smith day, that such existed. Rather the rituals of freemasonry grew out of the stone masons guilds of the middle ages. The modern rituals we know today were codified in the late 17th and early 18th centuries in the British Isles.

Likewise there is no historical evidence of anything like the codified temple endowment we see today in antiquity. There are parts of the endowment which have biblical types, for example the washing and anointing where we reference the bible as the source. In the Kirtland period there was the ordinance of foot washing from the bible as well for example. Foot washing continues to this day in the Church of Christ (Rigdon) a smaller branch of the restoration and is reported to be a part of the rare second anointing in the LDS tradition.

It is my opinion and the central idea of my thesis that Joseph Smith used elements of the masonic rituals of his day, elements which in North America continue to be found, in developing the ritual of the endowment. He did this because many of the early saint were themselves freemasons and or were familiar with the ritual forms he was employing. They would therefor focus on what the endowment was teaching and not on how it was being taught.

This brings me to the other point of my thesis, that there is and should be a separation between the endowment, what is taught and the ritual or presentation, how it is taught. The endowment teaches eternal ideas found through out time and indeed in many religious traditions as well as some distinctive to us. The endowment ritual is a method to present the endowment. Some of that ritual clearly originated with masonic practices others come from bible traditions. While the truths in the endowment do not change that ritual that we employ does change and has changed even in my lifetime. So, in the title of my thesis we have the "Message (the endowment) and the Messenger (the endowment ritual)"

The post above does however get one thing right. In masonry there is no central world wide authority. Each geographic division, state and provinces in the United States, Canada, Mexico and Australia for example have Grand Lodges which govern the craft, as it is sometimes called, with in that jurisdiction. Every Master Mason is a member of the Grand Lodge in their area. The highest degree in masonry, I might add, is the third or Master Mason degree. All the other so-called "higher" degree are subordinate to the Grand Lodge of Master Masons found in each state or country. Even with in the United States there are subtle but clearly recognizable differences in the rituals of the various Grand Lodges. These difference can be more pronounced as one move from country to county. What is the same however is the moral teaching that these rituals present.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion that might exist on this issue.

Greg Kearney

I once saw a reenactment of highlights from a Masonic ceremony where the most significant part (to me) depicted the murder of Hiram Abiff. The only thing that I saw that reminded me of anything from the endowment was called something like points of fellowship, but that part of the endowment is no longer performed that way. Yes, there are a few secret handshakes in the Masonic ceremony, but I can't call that significant because of how common such a symbol is.

I do accept that Joseph Smith's familiarity with Masonic rituals had an influence on the initial development of the endowment, just as Brigham Young's time in England had a strong influence on the external design of the Salt Lake temple. But, although there are similarities in how things are taught (symbolically) and ritualistically, I don't really see any similarity in the procession of the rituals or what is taught. Promises are made in the Masonic ritual to be a basically good person, but I think those promises pale in comparison to the covenants of the endowment.
What I have seen and read regarding Masonic rituals indicates that everybody present participates in the ritual by playing a part, but the Salt Lake temple can hold over 200 patrons and only eight people act out the story.

So, although I can see and do acknowledge that parts of the endowment were inspired by the Masonic ritual, I don't see anything to suggest a strong similarity between the two.

[Warrior Of Jah]

:X :X i don't know why but Eva is really pretty

[brianj]

:X :X i don't know why but Eva is really pretty

Who's Eva?

[Silver Pie]

I think he meant Eve.