Why all the new endowment movies?

[Silver Pie]

AA = has a predilection for addictions.

AO = Loves Jamaican music

OO = A problem child #:-s

NOOOO! (Falls to knees]

[Silver Pie]

OK here is a brain dump on this subject.
[Lots of info I didn't know before]

Thank you for this information. I think it clears up a lot of misconceptions (including mine).

[Silver Pie]

OK (no pun intended) - where does the 'negative' come from?

I have type O - . Two sons from my first marriage were both O - . Youngest son from his A + dad is A + .

We are each one 'a problem child' & prone to addictions' regardless, and I love Jamaican music!

I have a midwife book that says some women have changed from negative to positive through diet/herbs alone, so maybe there's something to the - + aspects of blood we don't know about.

[djinwa]

"This brings me to the other point of my thesis, that there is and should be a separation between the endowment, what is taught and the ritual or presentation, how it is taught. The endowment teaches eternal ideas found through out time and indeed in many religious traditions as well as some distinctive to us. The endowment ritual is a method to present the endowment."

I guess I don't understand why use rituals to teach. Why not just tell us what we need to know instead of making a bunch of goofy moves.

Seems the rituals are more a way to ensure allegiance to the group, much like would a gang or KKK or tribe or whatever. I saw a tribe in the Amazon put young boy's arms in a tube filled with extremely painful stinging ants. Did they learn something from that?

Not to mention the penalties in the endowment ceremony, which apparently have been removed - I haven't been for a while.

Anyway, we are supposedly able to become gods, but if I was, I would eliminate the busy work. Just teach people straight forward, instead of repeating the same ceremony and trying to imagine what it means. Maybe give people more time with their families.

And the other advantage of that would be fewer accusations of being a cult.

[gkearney]

"This brings me to the other point of my thesis, that there is and should be a separation between the endowment, what is taught and the ritual or presentation, how it is taught. The endowment teaches eternal ideas found through out time and indeed in many religious traditions as well as some distinctive to us. The endowment ritual is a method to present the endowment."

I guess I don't understand why use rituals to teach. Why not just tell us what we need to know instead of making a bunch of goofy moves.
...
Not to mention the penalties in the endowment ceremony, which apparently have been removed - I haven't been for a while.
...

The reason for employing ritual such as this is that having the person who you are trying to teach take part in some form of physical action has long been known to be a more effective means of teaching them than is setting them down and giving them a lecture. Many organizations have seen the value of this. Think of scouting for example. It employs a wide range of rituals, some even borrowed from the Freemasons, to teach young people things. It's true that you could just set them down and lecture them on what you wanted them to know but such an approach would be ineffective.

The penalties were removed 18 years ago in 1999. You really should get out to the temple more. Since that time there have been other changes made to the ritual in particular to the washing and anointing.

[Michelle]

If someone is labeled as blood type A, that person is genetically either AA or AO. My husband is A and I am A, our child is O. That means that both him and I are both AO genetically. Which makes sense we both carry the "O" each of us has 1 parent that is O,O

I can pass on A or O depending on how the dice land. And my spouse can either pass on an A or O. So our children have 3 options: AA, AO, OO

Hope that helps.

AA = has a predilection for addictions.

AO = Loves Jamaican music

OO = A problem child #:-s

OK (no pun intended) - where does the 'negative' come from?

I have type O - . Two sons from my first marriage were both O - . Youngest son from his A + dad is A + .

We are each one 'a problem child' & prone to addictions' regardless, and I love Jamaican music!

"Where does negative come from?"

I didn't see this actually answered yet, so here you go:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rh_blood_group_system

Basically, just another way to determine blood comparability. If my husband and I had different Rh factors, after the first baby, when the mother and baby's blood mix. The mother could develop antibodies ( someone correct me if there is a better word) and pass them on to then baby, killing the child. We, luckily, have a method of protecting the babies now so they live.

I had a friend whose mom, back in the day in Mexico lost all her babies but the first to this.

[brianj]

Why is our temple endowment almost identical to what has been going on in Masonic temples for centuries??? Inquiring minds wanna know.

I'm curious: Who told you this? I have spoken with LDS masons who claim there is no similarity between our temples and Masonic rites. There isn't even a global Masonic standard for those rites; local groups are allowed to create their own standards.

OK here is a brain dump on this subject.

First off let me establish my credentials in this matter. I am an active and temple attending member of the church. I am also an active Freemason a life member of Franklin Lodge #123 A.F&A.M of Maine. I have also been through the various so called "higher degrees" I am a member of several lodges of research in the U.S., Canada and Australia. I wrote my thesis in university on the relationship between Freemasonry and the development of the temple endowment ritual and other aspects of the church. I have spoken to numerous groups both church related (FAIR and at church sponsored firesides) as well as masonic venues on this subject.

It is wrong to either claim that the temple endowment is "almost identical" to masonic rituals or that "no similarity between our temples and Masonic rites exist". Both statements are vast oversimplifications of the truth. Any Freemason who has gone to the LDS temple will see some rather startling similarities just as any endowed member who, should they read the masonic rituals or join a masonic lodge, will. In particular this is true the areas of the signs and tokens used. However the meaning and purpose of such differ greatly.

Freemasonry, like the temple, uses a ritual drama to teach the morals of mans relationship to man. The temple's focus is upon man relationship to God. While masonic rituals and teachings are moral in nature they are strictly non-sectarian in content. Freemasonry is not a religion and make no claim to be one or to offer any means of salvation outside of the faith the member holds. Be that faith be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism or any other faith tradition .

Beyond the similarities in the signs and tokens and use of the same, the other major points of similarity fall into the area of the teaching method both employ. Both make use of an allegorical drama where the participant takes upon himself the role of the central figure(s) in the drama. In masonry this is Hiram Abiff, the master builder of Solomon's temple. In the endowment drama this is Adam and Eve. In both cases these figures represent the wider audience.

Both the masonic rituals and the temple endowment also employ the use of ritual repetitions in there presentations, the endowment less so in more modern presentations. This results in the ritual having a familiar cadence or rhythm if you will. Questions are asked and answers given in a predictable and prescribe manner where the wording is in set form. For example take this exchange from the opening of the lodge.

Worshipful Mater is the honorific title give to the elected leader of a lodge. The Tyler and Junior Deacon are also elected offices of the lodge. The following is given at every opening of a lodge and is an example of the questions and response method employed in masonry and in similar exchanges between God, Jehovah and Adam in the endowment ritual as a teaching tool.

Worshipful Mater (gives one rap with his gavel, Junior Deacon rises up)--Brother Junior Deacon, the first and constant care of Masons when convened?

Junior Deacon--To see that the Lodge is duly tyled.

Worshipful Mater --You will attend to that part of your duty, and inform the Tyler that we are about to open a Lodge of Entered Apprentice Masons (Fellow Crafts, or Master Masons, as the case may be), and direct him to tyle accordingly.

The Deacon opens the door, and says to the Tyler--Brother Tyler, it is the orders of the Worshipful Master that you tyle this Lodge as an Entered Apprentice (Fellow Crafts, or Master Mason, as the case may be); then closes the door, gives one rap (two, if a Fellow Crafts', or three, if a Masters' Lodge), which is responded to by the Tyler.

Junior Deacon --Worshipful Master, the Lodge is tyled.

Worshipful Mater --How tyled?

Junior Deacon --By a brother of this degree, without the inner door, invested with the proper implement of his office (the sword).

Worshipful Mater --His duty there?

Junior Deacon --To keep off all cowans and eavesdroppers; suffer none to pass or repass, except such as are duly qualified, and have the Worshipful Master's permission. (Sits down.)

Duncan, Malcolm C., Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor, New York: Dick & Fitzgerald, 1866, pp12-13
http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/dun/dun00.htm

Note: cowan (plurals include the standard and common cowans, as well as the obsolete cowanis) from the Scottish Gaelic cobhan (“coffer”, “box”, “ark”).

1. A worker in unmortared stone; a stonemason who has not served an apprenticeship.
2. (freemasonry) A person who attempts to pass himself off as a Freemason without having experienced the rituals or going through the degrees.
3. (slang) A sneak; an inquisitive or prying person.
4. (in attributive use) uninitiated, outside, “profane”

The question that is then presented is how did our temple endowment rituals come to have the similarities in form and in some cases details to the masonic rituals. To this we must clear up a few historical points. First there is no historical evidence that links the freemasons to antiquity. This despite the wide held belief, particularly in Joseph Smith day, that such existed. Rather the rituals of freemasonry grew out of the stone masons guilds of the middle ages. The modern rituals we know today were codified in the late 17th and early 18th centuries in the British Isles.

Likewise there is no historical evidence of anything like the codified temple endowment we see today in antiquity. There are parts of the endowment which have biblical types, for example the washing and anointing where we reference the bible as the source. In the Kirtland period there was the ordinance of foot washing from the bible as well for example. Foot washing continues to this day in the Church of Christ (Rigdon) a smaller branch of the restoration and is reported to be a part of the rare second anointing in the LDS tradition.

It is my opinion and the central idea of my thesis that Joseph Smith used elements of the masonic rituals of his day, elements which in North America continue to be found, in developing the ritual of the endowment. He did this because many of the early saint were themselves freemasons and or were familiar with the ritual forms he was employing. They would therefor focus on what the endowment was teaching and not on how it was being taught.

This brings me to the other point of my thesis, that there is and should be a separation between the endowment, what is taught and the ritual or presentation, how it is taught. The endowment teaches eternal ideas found through out time and indeed in many religious traditions as well as some distinctive to us. The endowment ritual is a method to present the endowment. Some of that ritual clearly originated with masonic practices others come from bible traditions. While the truths in the endowment do not change that ritual that we employ does change and has changed even in my lifetime. So, in the title of my thesis we have the "Message (the endowment) and the Messenger (the endowment ritual)"

The post above does however get one thing right. In masonry there is no central world wide authority. Each geographic division, state and provinces in the United States, Canada, Mexico and Australia for example have Grand Lodges which govern the craft, as it is sometimes called, with in that jurisdiction. Every Master Mason is a member of the Grand Lodge in their area. The highest degree in masonry, I might add, is the third or Master Mason degree. All the other so-called "higher" degree are subordinate to the Grand Lodge of Master Masons found in each state or country. Even with in the United States there are subtle but clearly recognizable differences in the rituals of the various Grand Lodges. These difference can be more pronounced as one move from country to county. What is the same however is the moral teaching that these rituals present.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion that might exist on this issue.

Greg Kearney

I once saw a reenactment of highlights from a Masonic ceremony where the most significant part (to me) depicted the murder of Hiram Abiff. The only thing that I saw that reminded me of anything from the endowment was called something like points of fellowship, but that part of the endowment is no longer performed that way. Yes, there are a few secret handshakes in the Masonic ceremony, but I can't call that significant because of how common such a symbol is.

I do accept that Joseph Smith's familiarity with Masonic rituals had an influence on the initial development of the endowment, just as Brigham Young's time in England had a strong influence on the external design of the Salt Lake temple. But, although there are similarities in how things are taught (symbolically) and ritualistically, I don't really see any similarity in the procession of the rituals or what is taught. Promises are made in the Masonic ritual to be a basically good person, but I think those promises pale in comparison to the covenants of the endowment.
What I have seen and read regarding Masonic rituals indicates that everybody present participates in the ritual by playing a part, but the Salt Lake temple can hold over 200 patrons and only eight people act out the story.

So, although I can see and do acknowledge that parts of the endowment were inspired by the Masonic ritual, I don't see anything to suggest a strong similarity between the two.

[Warrior Of Jah]

:X :X i don't know why but Eva is really pretty

[brianj]

:X :X i don't know why but Eva is really pretty

Who's Eva?

[Silver Pie]

I think he meant Eve.

[brianj]

I think he meant Eve.

I'm embarrassed. Normally I would have made that leap quickly and easily.

In that case Warrior of Jah, my semi-Rastafarian friend, which Eve actress? There are three movies in this new crop, so three actresses playing Eve.

[JohnnyL]

"This brings me to the other point of my thesis, that there is and should be a separation between the endowment, what is taught and the ritual or presentation, how it is taught. The endowment teaches eternal ideas found through out time and indeed in many religious traditions as well as some distinctive to us. The endowment ritual is a method to present the endowment."

I guess I don't understand why use rituals to teach. Why not just tell us what we need to know instead of making a bunch of goofy moves.
...
Not to mention the penalties in the endowment ceremony, which apparently have been removed - I haven't been for a while.
...

The reason for employing ritual such as this is that having the person who you are trying to teach take part in some form of physical action has long been known to be a more effective means of teaching them than is setting them down and giving them a lecture. Many organizations have seen the value of this. Think of scouting for example. It employs a wide range of rituals, some even borrowed from the Freemasons, to teach young people things. It's true that you could just set them down and lecture them on what you wanted them to know but such an approach would be ineffective.

The penalties were removed 18 years ago in 1999. You really should get out to the temple more. Since that time there have been other changes made to the ritual in particular to the washing and anointing.

I think you mean 1989?