Intelligences, spirits, and programming

[LDX]

I recently Re-Read, skousen's speach about the attonement...

Few facts:

-Spirits and bodies are created
-Intelligences are eternal, they can not be created nor destroyed...
-God is the greatest Intelligence

Skousen's asked, what is an intelligence? and I ask the same, is it an intelligence "ME"?
or "ME" can be decomposed in more simple elements?



when I was studying computer programming, and then I learned about the "IF" "Else" and other functions
then a whole new world of oportunities opened before my eyes.... I can teach a computer
whatever I want, I can teach them to decide, to compare, to evaluate, and according certain circunstances
they will perform many commands...



is there a limit to the programming? how close are we from achieveing a real artificial intelligence?
Because in my head it was possible.... but I could be wrong...

are we capable to create a software able to question himself:
I think therefore I am...?


-If the answer is yes, then howcome intelligences can not be created nor destroyed?

-if the answer is No, then what is an intelligence? is a logic element? or a being?

[Rand]

I recently Re-Read, skousen's speach about the attonement...

Few facts:

-Spirits and bodies are created
-Intelligences are eternal, they can not be created nor destroyed...
-God is the greatest Intelligence

Skousen's asked, what is an intelligence? and I ask the same, is it an intelligence "ME"?
or "ME" can be decomposed in more simple elements?

-if the answer is No, then what is an intelligence?
is a logic element? or a being?
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Interesting questions. I think it is both, just not a fully self determinant entity. That is what God has made available in the plan of Salvation.

[Bambi]

Skousen's asked, what is an intelligence? and I ask the same, is it an intelligence "ME"?
or "ME" can be decomposed in more simple elements?

I'd say both. Is there an end to space? No. Is there something like a monad - a smallest
particle? I'd say no - I rather think (and the human mind doesn't like infinite things)
that there is infinite smallness. Things are alway made up from something smaller than
themselves - infinite. There is no such thing as an indivisible particle. It would be
indestructible and "dead". How could living things be made up of dead particles?
This is just my opinion. I'd love to hear a comment though.

2 Nephi 2:11
Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

is there a limit to the programming? how close are we from achieveing a real artificial intelligence?
Because in my head it was possible.... but I could be wrong...

Interesting, I learned how to programm myself and quickly came to the opposite conclusion. There
will and never can be artificial free agency - that's an oxymoron.

[brrgilbert]

God Bless.

[Bambi]

The key to "open" systems is the ability to program sufficient "rules" and "logic" to allow for machine learning

Now I don't know what you understand by a.i.
It's certainly possible to create a learning machine. But that is all it is and ever will be - a machine
that gathers information. It will never feel anything, it will never desire anything, it will
never be thankful, happy or sad. It will never come to life, no matter what you do to it.

[DPeterson]

Joseph Smith might have something to add to this. He said:

I want to reason more on the spirit of man; for I am dwelling on the body and spirit of man—on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man—the immortal part, because it had no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the spirit of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself.

Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It (Intelligence) is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.

The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory(Interesting that God found Himself in the midst of spirits), because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits.

This is good doctrine. It tastes good. I can taste the principles of eternal life, and so can you. They are given to me by the revelations of Jesus Christ...

(Words in blue are, of course, mine.)

[Bambi]

short and clear (one of my favourites):

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

[braingrunt]

My opinion is that true AI will not emerge from programming at the level of if/then/else. Writing an AI program at such a level is beyond the capacity of any human or team of humans. It's too complex.

I expect that the best we can hope for is "machine learning", where the machine is parented rather than programmed. The outcome may indeed be very impressive but quite dangerous as scifi likes to depict: because the main feature of this computer is that nobody is capable of fully understanding it.

Such a "parented" computer perhaps should not be thought of as the creation of intelligence, but as a manifestation of the "parent's" intelligence.

[Rensai]

short and clear (one of my favourites):

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

Exactly right. I've been working in IT and now pen testing with computers for 20 years. I've written a lot of code and seen many so called AI's. They can be very impressive in their way, but all fall far short of a real intelligence. There's a lot of talk about achieving a full AI in the next 20-30 years, but I don't believe its possible.

[Ezra]

I think therefor I am is not a complet truth. I only points to the truth which is
I am the watcher of my thoughts.

Intelligence is not the ability to think. All of gods creations have some ability to think in order to function to some small degree. What sets us apart is the ability to choose what thoughts we have.
Most people only use this ability on rare occasions.
Most people let the stream of natural mans thoughts to flow unchecked. They allow the natural mans stream of unchecked thoughts to place conditions on there happiness. There thoughts are lamenting about the past or seeking happiness in the precived imagined future.
Intelligence is the watcher of these thoughts. When we choose to hear it. To shed the natural man.
Intelligence is what let's us realize we can be happy in any circumstance. With intelligence thoughts. "The thinking behind the thoughts" we recive spiritual promptings. Know the hidden knowledge of god. Can precive things that are beyond are normal perceptions. And we find peace happiness and humility there as well.
Intelligence thought is the path to the strait and narrow. Because when you are in intelligent thinking you can't be deceived.

All it takes is to be present in your mind and body. Choosing to quite the natural mans mind.

One of those things were people will say easier said then done.
And that will always be true for them that believe it will be hard. For them that believe it's easy and set to work it will be easy.

So we see the power of thought.

[WarMonger]

I think therefor I am is not a complet truth. I only points to the truth which is
I am the watcher of my thoughts.
Intelligence is not the ability to think. All of gods creations have some ability to think in order to function to some small degree. What sets us apart is the ability to choose what thoughts we have.

Not sure where you get this from but all life is intelligence. Every blade of grass, tree, insect, animal even Mother Earth etc was intelligence that was given a spiritual body and then a earthly body - then will get a resurrected body. There are different orders of intelligence!!

[Ezra]

I think therefor I am is not a complet truth. I only points to the truth which is
I am the watcher of my thoughts.
Intelligence is not the ability to think. All of gods creations have some ability to think in order to function to some small degree. What sets us apart is the ability to choose what thoughts we have.

Not sure where you get this from but all life is intelligence. Every blade of grass, tree, insect, animal even Mother Earth etc was intelligence that was given a spiritual body and then a earthly body - then will get a resurrected body. There are different orders of intelligence!!

Completely agree. Getting away from the natural mans thought train will let you Tap into that intelligence. All of gods creations do this naturally except man. And you also will see exceptions if animals that are in close contact with man becoming depressed and so on. Only man has removed himself from being grounded in intelligence. One if satan's tricks.
Read as a man thinketh Gary Allen
Power of now eckhart tolle
The scriptures say this same thing.

[LDX]

I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all God himself could not create himself.

Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.

If this is true? (and I choose to believe J Smith over any other document or prophet)

Howcome this J. F Smith quote works?

“Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 335).

In what manner we are "begotten and born" from our heavenly parents?

are we "made" their children? do we achieve to be called their children?

what part is eternal? and what part is created? and How?
do we really believe that there is something like "spiritual sex" as antimormon claims?

Great answers to all of you, thank you...

[Desert Roses]

I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all God himself could not create himself.

Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.

If this is true? (and I choose to believe J Smith over any other document or prophet)

Howcome this J. F Smith quote works?

“Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 335).

In what manner we are "begotten and born" from our heavenly parents?

are we "made" their children? do we achieve to be called their children?

what part is eternal? and what part is created? and How?
do we really believe that there is something like "spiritual sex" as antimormon claims?

Great answers to all of you, thank you...

My understanding is that the process was similar to our physical birth; intelligence was placed into a spirit form, much like our spirit is placed into a physical body. Our body is made of elements that were not "created" in the sense they do not come from nothing, but are organized into a body. Our spirit body is similar, from my understanding--made of spirit element organized into a form that is in appearance like our Father and Mother in Heaven. Our earthly bodies resemble those of our earthly parents, as well as resembling our Heavenly parents. Spirit would be the same way--as intelligences we did not have a form that could progress to be like Father, and being filled with love for us, he created first spirit forms for us to place our intelligence in, and then commands the elements to organize and create physical bodies for our spirit form to inhabit and eventually keep eternally.

[brrgilbert]

God Bless.

[Nataliya]

is there a limit to the programming? how close are we from achieveing a real artificial intelligence?
Because in my head it was possible.... but I could be wrong...

are we capable to create a software able to question himself:
I think therefore I am...?


-If the answer is yes, then howcome intelligences can not be created nor destroyed?

-if the answer is No, then what is an intelligence? is a logic element? or a being?

Great questions! It looks like Artificial Intelligence had already been created, and it even had been playing “God” for eons of time. See page 123 in “Our Universal Journey” by George Kavassilas:

http://www.galaksija.com/literatura/ouj.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a difference, though, between artificial or synthetic intelligences and organic intelligences.