Should I say something?

[Lizzy60]

Yes, they can be that unaware, and I really doubt that you will do any good by saying anything. You will just set yourself apart as an enemy.

Some years ago, a young boy, maybe 6 years old or so, was running FAST down the hallway at our church building. This can be dangerous, as there are many doors to classrooms that open out into the hallway. Anyway, I gently stopped him, and told him that we are not supposed to run in the church building. His mom rounded the corner right behind him, and CHEWED ME OUT!! She told me that I had no business whatsoever bossing her kids around, and she held a grudge against me for years.

This same woman was in a RS class where the women were discussing methods that they used to encourage reverence in their children. She interrupted one woman's suggestion, saying, that might work for you because you were lucky enough to get perfect kids, but if you had my kids, you would know that those ideas don't work for most people.

Yep. In total denial.

[Lizzy60]

The technique that I have found that works best for me, when I need to say NO to someone's request, is just to say something like, I'm sorry I can't do that. When they ask why, just continue to say things like, this isn't possible for me at this time, or similar phrases, without ever actually giving an excuse like being too busy, or being sick. Just keep saying, this doesn't work for me, etc.
Your kids can say, I can't play with you today, and repeat as often as necessary. It is not a lie, if you tell your kids that they can't play with the little hellions, and they repeat your instructions (without the "little hellions" of course ;).)
I'm sorry you live in such close proximity to them. There are good things about my closest LDS neighbors living a half-mile away from me, and my ward being 20 miles across. YAY TEXAS!!!!!!

[ajax]

I wouldn't say anything. Just put on your apron and continue to serve.

[Desert Roses]

The technique that I have found that works best for me, when I need to say NO to someone's request, is just to say something like, I'm sorry I can't do that. When they ask why, just continue to say[/color] things like, this isn't possible for me at this time, or similar phrases, without ever actually giving an excuse like being too busy, or being sick. Just keep saying, this doesn't work for me, etc.
Your kids can say, I can't play with you today, and repeat as often as necessary. It is not a lie, if you tell your kids that they can't play with the little hellions, and they repeat your instructions (without the "little hellions" of course ;).)
I'm sorry you live in such close proximity to them. There are good things about my closest LDS neighbors living a half-mile away from me, and my ward being 20 miles across. YAY TEXAS!!!!!!

I call this the "broken record", a tactic learned from Love and Logic parenting. If you and the kids practice it, this is truly a loving and healthy way to handle this sister. You are blessing her by modeling healthy boundaries and not making excuses or dodging.

[survivaldealer]

Or you could just tell her the truth. Maybe suggest a paid daycare.

[msurkan]

I don't really have any great advice to offer, but I wanted to say that reading this story makes me cringe... I know that some people think my children are ill behaved - my 9 year old son in particular.

Some friends recently invited us to their mosque to experience the breaking of the Ramadan fast at the end of the day and my son was incorrigible. While some very nice muslim boys sat patiently in a circle during Koran study, even asking scriptural questions, my son was pacing around the back of the room causing a distraction. I eventually gave him my smart phone to play with which seemed to occupy him.

This makes me feel like such a failure. I do tell myself that the fact my son has high-functioning autism and has ALWAYS had socialization problems means I should give myself a break. Nevertheless, I just feel so self-conscious around others and keep thinking that if I was just a better parent my son would behave better.

I have had people tell me I need to discipline my son more, and I just feel terrible when I hear such comments. They aren't really helpful. I do discipline him (he spends SO much time in his room and loses "screen time" so much it would astonish you). At some point just keeping him locked in his room isn't helpful.

Anyway, I have no answers to give (I sure wish I knew what the answers were). I just know that I can really empathize with other parents and now that I have my own children I would NEVER presume to tell someone else how they should be raising theirs.

[Elizabeth]

Children need to be taught appropriate behaviour, discipline and boundaries. In Church far too many are taught this is playtime by parents who provide sketch books, toys etc and allow the child to distract others, and neglect to teach that Church time is the time to sit still and LISTEN to the speaker.

[uglypitbull]

Or you could just tell her the truth. Maybe suggest a paid daycare.

Winner!!! :ymapplause:

[Cookies]

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Personally, I think people (LDS in particular) are extremely uptight, self-righteous, and pretend to be pious (this is based upon MY personal experiences with LDS for over 40 years). I used to be hyper-concerned about kids being obedient in sacrament and behaving "properly" until I had my youngest boy. He has Down Syndrome and has taught me that I have no business expecting him to obey a bunch of ridiculous social expectations just because others think he should. He IS who he IS. He is exactly what God made him to be - and that has nothing to do with what others EXPECT him to be. He refuses to wear church clothes and wants to wear tie dye and a ball cap (who cares?), he plays angry birds during Sacrament - as he has no clue what's going on and why people expect him to sit with his arms folded and shut up (it keeps him quiet and when he's ready to talk about the Savior or the angels he sees, I drop everything and talk with him on his time), and he yells "sonovabiscuit" if he loses his game - no matter whose virgin ears are around to hear it (and yes, the stares I get are amusing), and he likes to go up front and "run the meeting" (he has met the Savior and told me about it, so I'm pretty sure he's "qualified" to be up there...).

I used to become extremely stressed out about what everyone else thought of him (and me as a mother), and now think they should mind their own business and learn not to judge like I did. I don't say this to be rude - and I'm certainly not advocating a LACK of parenting, and I DO understand the need to have a few minutes in Sacrament to at least have the illusion of peace so we can pray quietly and think of the Savior. But I remember being a kid in sacrament and being bored out of my gourd because I had no idea what people were blabbing on about, and what all this stuff was about. I was a KID; I wanted to be outside playing. I remember bringing a deck of cards to sacrament one Sunday so I wouldn't have to be bored, and I pulled them out to play "War" with my brother; my mom about blew an artery, LOL.

So I guess my point is, I think kids should be given a break. Sacrament is often times boring - even for adults! Moms that aren't "controlling" their kids should be given a break. It's probably the only 3 hours a week many moms get any kind of respite at all, and maybe they are simply "giving up" for a minute. But I think the biggest thing I'm thinking, is that if the Savior were there, He'd probably be rolling around on the floor wrestling with the kids, and playing tag with them, leaving us adults to adhere to our militant church agenda. I know that Joseph Smith was criticized for this very thing.

I think too, that if Sacrament is the only place that a person can find solace and peace, then that's a HUGE problem. We NEED time to meditate and pray at home. That can really be a challenge for a mom (I don't even get to go to the bathroom alone... 8-| ). So I have to "arrange" that time for myself. I certainly don't look to the church to provide it or expect to find it at church.

I wonder if a good approach might be to OFFER that mom some HELP if the kids are running around; something like: "HEY! I can see that you are probably overwhelmed getting all your kids to church and getting them calmed down, can I help out with that and let them sit with me - or take them outside for a break for a few minutes?" And then make it something the kids might enjoy; "Hey kids! Let's skip a few min of church and sit outside in the sun - God made that for us too!"

Hope my wide range of thoughts there is helpful.

[AI2.0]

They do nothing to control or keep their kids quiet in sacrament, They just let them wander around and bother everyone around them, and they are plenty old enough to know better. And the parents just sit there.

My question is....should I say something? Maybe they are just totally oblivious as to how obnoxious they really are...Idk.

Not to mention they teach the Sunday school class of the kids just older than my class and they are always SOOO loud that many class can hardly hear me half the time.

Can people be really that unaware of how obnoxious they are?

It can be annoying to have excessively noisy children and oblivious parents in your ward(I know I do), but my advice would be to only speak up if you think what you have to say will help them. If not, if you think it would cause offense or hurt their feelings or make them feel like you don't want them at church or you don't like them or their kids, then I would remain silent.

You don't have to help her watch her children if it is an imposition but every once in a while, it might be good for them to be around your children--maybe some of your family's manners will rub off
Besides, children do not stay little forever and some that were little hellions do end up growing into very nice young people. I say think of the future and the possibilities if this family feels loved and accepted by their fellow members at church.

[Original_Intent]

I don't intend to be judgmental, and I certainly have not walked a mile in the mocassins of anyone.

My wife and I raised two boys and everyone in both church and school always commented on their great behavior.

I disagree that church is an opportunity to get a break from your kids. Sorry, church attendance is to worship and to share testimony with each other. If your kids are making it difficult for others to do so, in my opinion it doesn't "take a village" it takes parenting. Particularly in sacrament meeting. We also have a boy with Downs syndrome in our ward and I don't give two thoughts about him making quite a bit of noise and so forth. It's distracting, but it is also understandable and the entire ward welcomes them and loves them. So that is a special case, I think.
I know some kids are just natural hellions, and maybe I just got lucky twice (actually, I know I did) But if that is the case, I don't think it is fair to others who want relative peace and quiet (again, especially during sacrament meeting) to have to put up with others kids and parents who ignore the problem. A couple of weeks ago, thee was a family with a ~4 year old boy who would not shut up, spoke loudly, and were neither shushed nor taken out by the parents. This literally went on for most of the meeting. That's out of line.

I didn't say anything, and I understand no one wants to give offense that could drive someone out of the church. I will say when I was a boy, any adult was willing and able to tell any child that was misbehaving "This is the Lord's house." And if the parent was right there and doing nothing, shame on them, not on the person that corrected their child.

For most children, there is really no excuse to just let that kind of behavior go on. With the kid who is a thief and you don't want to babysit him and your kids don't want to play with him - frankly, I'd be kindly honest but I also wouldn't pull any punches. I'd spell out to the mother exactly why he is not welcome.

[Matthew.B]

Or you could just tell her the truth. Maybe suggest a paid daycare.

Amen. Look at the long term consequences of your actions, sen6b. Also, follow the Lord's directive about being honest and pulling your brother or sister aside to tell them about any issues you have with them. Do it with wisdom and prudence, of course, but do it. It'll be scary, but do it anyway.

Anything less is un-Christlike.

[iWitness]

I was a handfulion........

I wouldn't "say" anything, but I might "do" a couple things. Maybe pray for her and the boys (any father around?), and ask The Lord what you could do to help her. You might be surprised at what you find!

Also, when I was called to work with boys (I think age 9) in Boy Scouts a few years ago, I noticed their parents didn't really parent them. "Oh jimmy, did you really say that to your leader? Well never mind that. Here's a hfcs soda and some gummy bears for going to scouts."

Although, that wasn't my issue. My issue is that children these days are not taught to be respectful and say "please" and "thank-you". I know it's not the most popular thing (disciplining), but I always discipline children while working hard to keep the balance of them knowing I am their friend. Like Jules said, play with them. Laugh. Have fun. Play tag. But when they're a little out of line, don't wait for someone else to step in and discipline, because in this day and age, nobody seems to be doing that. Discipline out of love, not anger. Talk to these boys. They need people to be friends and to help raise them. I believe in a better world, we would all be helping each other parent children out of tenderness and love. Sometimes moms need a breather! Also, if you do it out of love, it can be really life changing for the people with whom you associate with.

We can all give you information out the wazoo, but I recommend taking it to Father.

Christlike love wins every time, no matter how justified I may think I am! Sometimes the hellions grow up to be the ones doing all the discipline, hahaha.

....someone wanna take my kids for the evening???

[shestalou]

Personally, I think people (LDS in particular) are extremely uptight, self-righteous, and pretend to be pious (this is based upon MY personal experiences with LDS for over 40 years). I used to be hyper-concerned about kids being obedient in sacrament and behaving "properly" until I had my youngest boy. He has Down Syndrome and has taught me that I have no business expecting him to obey a bunch of ridiculous social expectations just because others think he should. He IS who he IS. He is exactly what God made him to be - and that has nothing to do with what others EXPECT him to be. He refuses to wear church clothes and wants to wear tie dye and a ball cap (who cares?), he plays angry birds during Sacrament - as he has no clue what's going on and why people expect him to sit with his arms folded and shut up (it keeps him quiet and when he's ready to talk about the Savior or the angels he sees, I drop everything and talk with him on his time), and he yells "sonovabiscuit" if he loses his game - no matter whose virgin ears are around to hear it (and yes, the stares I get are amusing), and he likes to go up front and "run the meeting" (he has met the Savior and told me about it, so I'm pretty sure he's "qualified" to be up there...).

I used to become extremely stressed out about what everyone else thought of him (and me as a mother), and now think they should mind their own business and learn not to judge like I did. I don't say this to be rude - and I'm certainly not advocating a LACK of parenting, and I DO understand the need to have a few minutes in Sacrament to at least have the illusion of peace so we can pray quietly and think of the Savior. But I remember being a kid in sacrament and being bored out of my gourd because I had no idea what people were blabbing on about, and what all this stuff was about. I was a KID; I wanted to be outside playing. I remember bringing a deck of cards to sacrament one Sunday so I wouldn't have to be bored, and I pulled them out to play "War" with my brother; my mom about blew an artery, LOL.

So I guess my point is, I think kids should be given a break. Sacrament is often times boring - even for adults! Moms that aren't "controlling" their kids should be given a break. It's probably the only 3 hours a week many moms get any kind of respite at all, and maybe they are simply "giving up" for a minute. But I think the biggest thing I'm thinking, is that if the Savior were there, He'd probably be rolling around on the floor wrestling with the kids, and playing tag with them, leaving us adults to adhere to our militant church agenda. I know that Joseph Smith was criticized for this very thing.

I think too, that if Sacrament is the only place that a person can find solace and peace, then that's a HUGE problem. We NEED time to meditate and pray at home. That can really be a challenge for a mom (I don't even get to go to the bathroom alone... 8-| ). So I have to "arrange" that time for myself. I certainly don't look to the church to provide it or expect to find it at church.

I wonder if a good approach might be to OFFER that mom some HELP if the kids are running around; something like: "HEY! I can see that you are probably overwhelmed getting all your kids to church and getting them calmed down, can I help out with that and let them sit with me - or take them outside for a break for a few minutes?" And then make it something the kids might enjoy; "Hey kids! Let's skip a few min of church and sit outside in the sun - God made that for us too!"

Hope my wide range of thoughts there is helpful.

Having a child with special needs people gave me dirty looks all the time and so I stopped going for 10 years, I personally think this is awful to speak this way of our fellow church members, we should be there to help one another.

[rproe67]

Personally, I think people (LDS in particular) are extremely uptight, self-righteous, and pretend to be pious (this is based upon MY personal experiences with LDS for over 40 years). I used to be hyper-concerned about kids being obedient in sacrament and behaving "properly" until I had my youngest boy. He has Down Syndrome and has taught me that I have no business expecting him to obey a bunch of ridiculous social expectations just because others think he should. He IS who he IS. He is exactly what God made him to be - and that has nothing to do with what others EXPECT him to be. He refuses to wear church clothes and wants to wear tie dye and a ball cap (who cares?), he plays angry birds during Sacrament - as he has no clue what's going on and why people expect him to sit with his arms folded and shut up (it keeps him quiet and when he's ready to talk about the Savior or the angels he sees, I drop everything and talk with him on his time), and he yells "sonovabiscuit" if he loses his game - no matter whose virgin ears are around to hear it (and yes, the stares I get are amusing), and he likes to go up front and "run the meeting" (he has met the Savior and told me about it, so I'm pretty sure he's "qualified" to be up there...).

I used to become extremely stressed out about what everyone else thought of him (and me as a mother), and now think they should mind their own business and learn not to judge like I did. I don't say this to be rude - and I'm certainly not advocating a LACK of parenting, and I DO understand the need to have a few minutes in Sacrament to at least have the illusion of peace so we can pray quietly and think of the Savior. But I remember being a kid in sacrament and being bored out of my gourd because I had no idea what people were blabbing on about, and what all this stuff was about. I was a KID; I wanted to be outside playing. I remember bringing a deck of cards to sacrament one Sunday so I wouldn't have to be bored, and I pulled them out to play "War" with my brother; my mom about blew an artery, LOL.

So I guess my point is, I think kids should be given a break. Sacrament is often times boring - even for adults! Moms that aren't "controlling" their kids should be given a break. It's probably the only 3 hours a week many moms get any kind of respite at all, and maybe they are simply "giving up" for a minute. But I think the biggest thing I'm thinking, is that if the Savior were there, He'd probably be rolling around on the floor wrestling with the kids, and playing tag with them, leaving us adults to adhere to our militant church agenda. I know that Joseph Smith was criticized for this very thing.

I think too, that if Sacrament is the only place that a person can find solace and peace, then that's a HUGE problem. We NEED time to meditate and pray at home. That can really be a challenge for a mom (I don't even get to go to the bathroom alone... 8-| ). So I have to "arrange" that time for myself. I certainly don't look to the church to provide it or expect to find it at church.

I wonder if a good approach might be to OFFER that mom some HELP if the kids are running around; something like: "HEY! I can see that you are probably overwhelmed getting all your kids to church and getting them calmed down, can I help out with that and let them sit with me - or take them outside for a break for a few minutes?" And then make it something the kids might enjoy; "Hey kids! Let's skip a few min of church and sit outside in the sun - God made that for us too!"

Hope my wide range of thoughts there is helpful.

^^^^^I agree!!!^^^^^

Sounds like this lady needs a true friend, an example, and a teacher? Parenting does not come natural for some folks, show me the Parenting 101 book so I can have perfectly behaved children!? Some kids really are a challenge but one day those kids will grow up and be able to sit through the meeting, that is unless they go inactive because their mother was judged for being a terrible mother!? For some going to sacrament is like going to the temple, they want peace, quiet...is that always possible with children!? By all means, go to the Temple, go to the mountains, lock yourself in the closet if you want quiet time with The Lord! In the church we are there to love and support one another, "willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places."

[ajax]

I get the feeling that Jules and sen6b will one day be best of friends.

But as for now:

[Original_Intent]

So if her kids climb under our over benches and walk around the chapel during sacrament, the oldest who's EIGHT, starts throwing stuff at my kids, getting them riled up, and at that point the mom was out in the hall with her baby and the dad just ignores it all. I don't expect my kids to just sit there and shutup it doesn't happen, but I do TRY to TEACH them reverence. Especially during sacrament. My relief society presidents son is down syndrome, which btw are some of my favorite people ever, his name is Ty, he is very loud, and he's hilarious, and at times says inappropriate things, BUT he's still WAY better behaved than these other kids. We can't just say kids will be kids and let them do whatever they want and hope for the best. That it's a parents job is to TEACH . I don't expect perfection but an effort towards something that even resembles good behavior would be nice.

Agree 100%.

Rambunctious kids I understand. But parents whose "Give a darn" button is obviously broken are the ones that are infuriating.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

I could say the sky is blue and the grass is green and Jules would disagree with me. I give up. Im a big selfish A hole Jules. I should just sacrifice and dedicate every Sunday to her and her bratty kids so that THEY can listen to sacrament. Cause what do I need to listen for? And my kids will just have to learn deal with it. I'll even let them come over again and destroy my house be rude to my kids then steal their toys at the end of the day so their mom can sell Mary Kay. BecausE I'm just a stay at home mom I got nothing better to do right?
I'm not this big douche bag you think I am.

Wow, I'm sorry you took it that way - that is DEFINITELY not what I intended to convey. I actually put a lot of consideration in that post and tried to offer a different view in a lighthearted way.

[SmallFarm]

well that's just how I feel, that you are in opposition to anything I say pretty much. I don't expect you to agree with me on everything... but there must be SOMETHING we can agree on. @-)

Hugh Jackman?

[FoxMammaWisdom]

well that's just how I feel, that you are in opposition to anything I say pretty much. I don't expect you to agree with me on everything... but there must be SOMETHING we can agree on. @-)

You should review those posts of yours I've "liked". I think you are defending yourself against an imaginary enemy. ;)

[creator]

Cat fight!!!

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Cat fight!!!

Well some people are easily entertained... /:)

[creator]

[Ezra]

You should confront the person. Speak your mind be blunt. Get it on the table. You need to plan it out in your head first. Have imagined conversations of how it would go with this !!! in your mind.

It's not you vs. her. It's you and her vs the problem. Don't make it personal. If it starts to get personal feeling upset or angry take a step back . End the conversation if you need. If you do let them know a time frame of when you can continue the conversation.

One big rule is this. If you think your way is right and there's is wrong. It will only end in negative feelings. Your mind needs to be in a place where it's about helping them for there sakes not for yours. If you can't see that in your mind. Then leave it alone tell you can. When every we are in a mind set of judgement my ways right there's is wrong or looking down on them for any reason the conversation is doomed to fail. If you would like more help or advice. I've spent 12 years of my life helping people do this for a living.