Kate Kelly was excommunicated

[creator]

We don't really know who Sam the Lamanite was or where he came from.
That said, Snuffer isn't a prophet because he never prophesied of anything. He simply teaches his version of the gospel and church history, an incorrect version. He's just a guy with an interpretation who has garnished a following. He's more of a leader than a prophet. They teach contrary to what the actual Prophets teach.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about Snuffer... Kate Kelly's letter was specific. I still don't know for sure why Snuffer was exed - it wasn't specific enough.

[BrentL]

according to the 70 transcript, you will never know anyway because the church lied about it.

[BMC]

Her urging to others to "stay and make it better" are an obvious invitation to others to take the same stance she took, and continue with the types of actions that she took.

Actions have consequences. She knew where it was going and pursued it for the attention it would bring her, as well as the negative attention it would bring the Church. It would seem that she got what was after.

Don't forget this is a double edged sword, the actions of the church will also have its consequences.

i.e. Missionary work (especially with women converts and their families), public image stained - outside view is that the Church as a whole is still discriminatory - especially towards women, blacks and the priesthood will surface again.

How can the church claim it isn't those things when the Relief Society was an independent organization within the Church, had its own budget, magazine, lessons and leadership were all called by the Presidency of the Relief Society - it was independent and not an appendage to the Priesthood. A black man has never served as an Apostle, let a lone as a Prophet, or a black woman as a Relief Society President for the Church. Or a black man in the Presidency of the 70's or Presiding Bishopric. It wasn't until 2009 that a black man was called into the First Quorum of the 70's. Elder Joseph W. Sitat. The one before served in a different quorum of the 70's that was 1990-1995, the one before that was 1839. There has only been one Native American GA and he was later ex-communicated and he was in the First Quorum of the 70's. I am not finding fault, I am just stating the obvious facts of the present day situation.

Will hastening the work, now take a back seat to the growing controversy over the churches method of handling controversial issues?

I am also curious if any GA's are disabled, i.e. deaf, blind, according to the ADA standards, and not just because of age (infirmed) or if any have ever been called who are physically handicapped at that time to serve as a GA, again not because of being infirmed. Discrimination against persons with disabilities is another one possibly.

These are the ever persistent issues in the public:

1.) Gender inequality - Women discriminated against
2.) Marriage inequality - Discriminating against persons of same sex marriage
3.) Racism - Blacks are still not called into high positions of leadership, (only 3 times since the organization of the Church)

[e-eye]

Her urging to others to "stay and make it better" are an obvious invitation to others to take the same stance she took, and continue with the types of actions that she took.

Actions have consequences. She knew where it was going and pursued it for the attention it would bring her, as well as the negative attention it would bring the Church. It would seem that she got what was after.

Don't forget this is a double edged sword, the actions of the church will also have its consequences.

i.e. Missionary work (especially with women converts and their families), public image stained - outside view is that the Church as a whole is still discriminatory - especially towards women, blacks and the priesthood will surface again.

How can the church claim it isn't those things when the Relief Society was an independent organization within the Church, had its own budget, magazine, lessons and leadership were all called by the Presidency of the Relief Society - it was independent and not an appendage to the Priesthood. A black man has never served as an Apostle, let a lone as a Prophet, or a black woman as a Relief Society President for the Church. Or a black man in the Presidency of the 70's or Presiding Bishopric. It wasn't until 2009 that a black man was called into the First Quorum of the 70's. Elder Joseph W. Sitat. The one before served in a different quorum of the 70's that was 1990-1995, the one before that was 1839. There has only been one Native American GA and he was later ex-communicated and he was in the First Quorum of the 70's. I am not finding fault, I am just stating the obvious facts of the present day situation.

Will hastening the work, now take a back seat to the growing controversy over the churches method of handling controversial issues?

I am also curious if any GA's are disabled, i.e. deaf, blind, according to the ADA standards, and not just because of age (infirmed) or if any have ever been called who are physically handicapped at that time to serve as a GA, again not because of being infirmed. Discrimination against persons with disabilities is another one possibly.

These are the ever persistent issues in the public:

1.) Gender inequality - Women discriminated against
2.) Marriage inequality - Discriminating against persons of same sex marriage
3.) Racism - Blacks are still not called into high positions of leadership, (only 3 times since the organization of the Church)

Hopefully Kate realized the damage she caused not only her followers but how this could hinder some peoples ability to listen to the good news.

However despite all the negative publicity the work will go forward and the elect will hear the voice and be gathered as this great work moves forward. Satan is doing everything that he can to stop the rock from rolling forward but he knows he will not win but he will be happy to keep as many people as he can from gaining exaltation.

[boo]

E-eye you optimism is impressive. My question is how do you interpret Mormon 8 and does it apply to us in these days? Thanks

[Benjamin_LK]

Her urging to others to "stay and make it better" are an obvious invitation to others to take the same stance she took, and continue with the types of actions that she took.

Actions have consequences. She knew where it was going and pursued it for the attention it would bring her, as well as the negative attention it would bring the Church. It would seem that she got what was after.

Don't forget this is a double edged sword, the actions of the church will also have its consequences.

i.e. Missionary work (especially with women converts and their families), public image stained - outside view is that the Church as a whole is still discriminatory - especially towards women, blacks and the priesthood will surface again.

How can the church claim it isn't those things when the Relief Society was an independent organization within the Church, had its own budget, magazine, lessons and leadership were all called by the Presidency of the Relief Society - it was independent and not an appendage to the Priesthood. A black man has never served as an Apostle, let a lone as a Prophet, or a black woman as a Relief Society President for the Church. Or a black man in the Presidency of the 70's or Presiding Bishopric. It wasn't until 2009 that a black man was called into the First Quorum of the 70's. Elder Joseph W. Sitat. The one before served in a different quorum of the 70's that was 1990-1995, the one before that was 1839. There has only been one Native American GA and he was later ex-communicated and he was in the First Quorum of the 70's. I am not finding fault, I am just stating the obvious facts of the present day situation.

Will hastening the work, now take a back seat to the growing controversy over the churches method of handling controversial issues?

I am also curious if any GA's are disabled, i.e. deaf, blind, according to the ADA standards, and not just because of age (infirmed) or if any have ever been called who are physically handicapped at that time to serve as a GA, again not because of being infirmed. Discrimination against persons with disabilities is another one possibly.

These are the ever persistent issues in the public:

1.) Gender inequality - Women discriminated against
2.) Marriage inequality - Discriminating against persons of same sex marriage
3.) Racism - Blacks are still not called into high positions of leadership, (only 3 times since the organization of the Church)

Hopefully Kate realized the damage she caused not only her followers but how this could hinder some peoples ability to listen to the good news.

However despite all the negative publicity the work will go forward and the elect will hear the voice and be gathered as this great work moves forward. Satan is doing everything that he can to stop the rock from rolling forward but he knows he will not win but he will be happy to keep as many people as he can from gaining exaltation.

IMHO, no one knows the hearts of potential converts better than the Lord, no one knows who will be willing to hear the spirit and join despite whatever attempts are made at negativity. Sure, I joined a church on spiritual calling, I saw at least what would apparently seem to be the three points BMC mentioned, but to have a church with the 12 apostles, let's see, how many are there like that on the face of the Earth?

[Fiannan]

Anyone remember this gal? Interesting quotes about sex from her at the bottom of the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonia_Johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sixpacktr]

Anyone remember this gal? Interesting quotes about sex from her at the bottom of the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonia_Johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vaguely.

and that will be the end result of Ms Kelly. People will forget about her because her 15 mins will be up.

But on that article about Ms Johnson (I wonder if Ms is to patriarchal for her??). She blames her husband divorcing her on a 'mid life crisis'.

Yup, I'm sure it was. He saw what a dingbat she was and got the heck out of there. She is the epitome of darkness replacing light, and her wild allegations and theories only bolster that.

[BMC]

What's ridiculous to me is how she continues to play the victim. In her letter from her bishop he offered to make the DC at a later date or Skype. She refused and insisted on writing a letter.
Then I'm watching the news this morning, I think it was hln and the headline was "woman excommunicated from church. Find out how she found out she had been kicked out of the Mormon church." As if she was totally blindsided by the whole thing. Then they show a clip of her talking about how they can't strip that title of being a Mormon from her.
I think she really believes she is a martyr!
And she's already stated that she won't stop.
Things are going to get interesting, especially this conference.

Only if they announce a new revelation...

I suspect, they will have a few more women speakers this conf., a woman will pray again in GC, they will talk on honoring and sustaining church leaders who hold the priesthood, role of priesthood in the church and home, role of women in sustaining priesthood and how it blesses their lives. This has been the clandestine talks/messages in recent weeks in our Ward... it derailed fathers day, and I am sure it will be along the lines of avoiding fringe groups and internet discussions.

All of which here are guilty of associating with fringe groups... Unless you can rationalize the time spent here as a labor of love, seeking to convert and bring people back into the (blind) fold.

[Benjamin_LK]

Anyone remember this gal? Interesting quotes about sex from her at the bottom of the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonia_Johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You know what's funny is that whatever her business was, it must have been long ago. I didn't know about her until someone here on this forum mentioned her by name. Anyways, Kate probably gets her 15 minutes like Sonia did some time ago.

[Benjamin_LK]

Her urging to others to "stay and make it better" are an obvious invitation to others to take the same stance she took, and continue with the types of actions that she took.

Actions have consequences. She knew where it was going and pursued it for the attention it would bring her, as well as the negative attention it would bring the Church. It would seem that she got what was after.

Don't forget this is a double edged sword, the actions of the church will also have its consequences.

i.e. Missionary work (especially with women converts and their families), public image stained - outside view is that the Church as a whole is still discriminatory - especially towards women, blacks and the priesthood will surface again.

How can the church claim it isn't those things when the Relief Society was an independent organization within the Church, had its own budget, magazine, lessons and leadership were all called by the Presidency of the Relief Society - it was independent and not an appendage to the Priesthood. A black man has never served as an Apostle, let a lone as a Prophet, or a black woman as a Relief Society President for the Church. Or a black man in the Presidency of the 70's or Presiding Bishopric. It wasn't until 2009 that a black man was called into the First Quorum of the 70's. Elder Joseph W. Sitat. The one before served in a different quorum of the 70's that was 1990-1995, the one before that was 1839. There has only been one Native American GA and he was later ex-communicated and he was in the First Quorum of the 70's. I am not finding fault, I am just stating the obvious facts of the present day situation.

Will hastening the work, now take a back seat to the growing controversy over the churches method of handling controversial issues?

I am also curious if any GA's are disabled, i.e. deaf, blind, according to the ADA standards, and not just because of age (infirmed) or if any have ever been called who are physically handicapped at that time to serve as a GA, again not because of being infirmed. Discrimination against persons with disabilities is another one possibly.

These are the ever persistent issues in the public:

1.) Gender inequality - Women discriminated against
2.) Marriage inequality - Discriminating against persons of same sex marriage
3.) Racism - Blacks are still not called into high positions of leadership, (only 3 times since the organization of the Church)

Hopefully Kate realized the damage she caused not only her followers but how this could hinder some peoples ability to listen to the good news.

However despite all the negative publicity the work will go forward and the elect will hear the voice and be gathered as this great work moves forward. Satan is doing everything that he can to stop the rock from rolling forward but he knows he will not win but he will be happy to keep as many people as he can from gaining exaltation.

This church is guided by the Lord, and he has ways of extending his message to some of the most unlikely of people. A story from myself is that despite the negativity about Mormons being so gender discriminating and so racist, I investigated it, and found it was a decent church to be at any way. Been a member for 14 years and counting. Some people are going to find it to be a decent church, regardless of the negativity some have with it. It was around when I was considering, and it still is, but for the people for whom it counts, the spirit still can speak true. If you really believe that the Lord is out there, and that this is his church, trust that he really has a plan. Also, find something to enjoy about it!

[Hyrcanus]

We always have a tendency to view the contemporary happenings as being somehow more important than the past. In reality, chances are that Kate Kelly will go the way of others excommunicated for this sort of activism in the past. Only a fraction of the Church is even aware of this, even fewer know enough details to do more than shrug their shoulders. How much of an impact have the September 6 had?

That said, none of that has anything to do with whether Kate Kelly's core point is legitimate. Speculating that she is a narcissist, plotting the overthrow of the Church, an atheist or a liberal doesn't have any bearing on whether or not women should be given the Priesthood. It's disappointing to see all the ad hominem.

[e-eye]

E-eye you optimism is impressive. My question is how do you interpret Mormon 8 and does it apply to us in these days? Thanks

Yes I am a pretty optimistic person but it works for me. Sorry that chapter has a lot going on and I imagine I could write endlessly without guessing why you want the comparison. Please do share what verses you were wanting me to look at in greater depth or what comparison you consider that may be positive/negative to our outlook.

I do see that chapter as a fulfillment of prophecy given earlier in the book of Mormon that the Nephi people would fall and likewise we will see the prophecies fulfilled in our day but the good news is that we are on the winning team and it ends with the Savior coming in glory. Lot's of hard times to go through though...

[mirkwood]

Alma 1: 24-25

24 For the hearts of many were hardened, and their names were blotted out, that they were remembered no more among the people of God. And also many withdrew themselves from among them.


25 Now this was a great trial to those that did stand fast in the faith; nevertheless, they were steadfast and immovable in keeping the commandments of God, and they bore with patience the persecution which was heaped upon them.

[BMC]

Yeah my lesson I am teaching this Sunday is about why we should listen to the counsel of priesthood leaders.

I may be wrong, but you don't come across as being thrilled about it? I think it's a great subject, especially when you're the one teaching, you have the opportunity to point to Christ, share knowledge, proclaim your testimony and love for Him. Or you could just read the lesson, ask the suggested questions, thank everyone who didn't participate. ;)

Good luck though!

[Fiannan]

Anyone remember this gal? Interesting quotes about sex from her at the bottom of the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonia_Johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vaguely.

and that will be the end result of Ms Kelly. People will forget about her because her 15 mins will be up.

But on that article about Ms Johnson (I wonder if Ms is to patriarchal for her??). She blames her husband divorcing her on a 'mid life crisis'.

Yup, I'm sure it was. He saw what a dingbat she was and got the heck out of there. She is the epitome of darkness replacing light, and her wild allegations and theories only bolster that.

The point of posting that is because I joined the Church about the same time this issue was huge. The image of the Church was of it being the bad guy.

[Fiannan]

Again, by their fruits ye shall know them. I have no clue as to what Ms. Kelly is like in reality, but seeing how the media (and I mean almost all the MSM outlets) is using this to make the Church look evil should at least alert people as to the dangers of flirting with the idea that the Church is being a bully here.

[Benjamin_LK]

Again, by their fruits ye shall know them. I have no clue as to what Ms. Kelly is like in reality, but seeing how the media (and I mean almost all the MSM outlets) is using this to make the Church look evil should at least alert people as to the dangers of flirting with the idea that the Church is being a bully here.

What time frame did you join? It was 2000-2001 for me, and the church as the bad guy was a big thing then too, not Ms. Kelly, but word was around and out about the three themes BMC mentioned.

[Jake]

You know, I can't help but wonder why Kate Kelly was exed for recruiting people for her cause, but no one is exed for recruiting people for the Mormons Building Bridges cause. Double standard?

[djinwa]

Funny how these women claim they have no power.

I offered to give my wife the priesthood, if she would give me control of our sex life. She declined the offer.

Think about it. You can trade sex for money. Without it, most men wouldn't marry and hand over their paycheck.

Now how much can you charge for use of your priesthood?

I mean, women who want the priesthood, and dealing with the associated headaches of leadership, remind me of women who want the equal right to go to war and get their legs blown off.

Doesn't seem like they are thinking things through.

[OCDMOM]

Goodbye and good luck Tares. Now move over your blocking the view for us the wheat.

[Pison]

What a tragedy both for her and the church. I don't agree with her but this typical bureaucratic ,authoritarian, reflex to mild dissent tells me that the COB has learned nothing since the Sept 6 in 1993. That ended poorly for the institution and the individuals and so will this I fear.

"Mild dissent?" Are you serious? She organized a group that publicly went against church doctrine and she led a protest or march or whatever it was on temple square. If you dont agree with the teachings of the church go start your own church.

[Pison]

What a tragedy both for her and the church. I don't agree with her but this typical bureaucratic ,authoritarian, reflex to mild dissent tells me that the COB has learned nothing since the Sept 6 in 1993. That ended poorly for the institution and the individuals and so will this I fear.

"Mild dissent?" You're funny!

[samizdat]

What's ridiculous to me is how she continues to play the victim. In her letter from her bishop he offered to make the DC at a later date or Skype. She refused and insisted on writing a letter.
Then I'm watching the news this morning, I think it was hln and the headline was "woman excommunicated from church. Find out how she found out she had been kicked out of the Mormon church." As if she was totally blindsided by the whole thing. Then they show a clip of her talking about how they can't strip that title of being a Mormon from her.
I think she really believes she is a martyr!
And she's already stated that she won't stop.
Things are going to get interesting, especially this conference.

I had put in my blog a while back in a few posts about my feelings that the April 2014 Conference would be the last "normal" conference, and also looking up many other things, I could most definitely see why albeit there are many attacks on the Church from all sides right now.

Things are definitely getting interesting! If we had one date per year via the Jewish Calendar and the restoration of the Church happened on 1 Nisan, we are now on 8 Tishrei about to enter 9 Tishrei.

Erev Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur Eve. Day of Atonement, Day of Judgment.

[samizdat]

BTW the next conference falls on Yom Kippur itself.