An unfortunately true statement

[LittleLion]

Clearly, the original intent of the US Constitution was to maintain our rights and privileges and support our freedom, or in other words protect life, liberty and control of private property. Many LDS people believe that whatever the Supreme Court declares is constitutional is constitutional, and many of them also approve of many of those informal amendments.

Exactly, and this is called going along to get along and not causing waves. We are no longer a peculiar people we are a people that the PTB look to for support and acknowledgment starting way way back. Marriner S. Eccles who was an LDS member in good standing and became the Chairman of the Federal Reserve was instrumental in saving the fed when it was about to fail as he did with his fathers banking interests. Later he was involved in creating the world bank and the IMF which are the most hideous institutions for world control and for stealing of the worlds wealth and resources. The list of LDS business, political and Legal leaders that have helped satan take control of this world and circumvent the constitution is a long one.

At this point in time I would rely only on the spirit and Christs words for teaching youngsters about what the constitution is and what it was meant to be. Relying on the spirit it is hard to go wrong.

[lundbaek]

I still believe the Prophet an at least some of the Apostles are aware of the responsibility of LDS people to maintain our rights and privileges and support our freedom, or in other words protect life, liberty and control of private property. But I also believe they realize that to promote those things now would invite retribution against the Church that would impede its missionary and building programs and frustrate its efforts to promote the principles of the gospel. Therefore I do not fault the Prophet at all. Beyond that I don't trust my own opinions. But I do fault those prominent LDS people who have set a bad example by promoting and supporting legislation and programs that adversely affect life, liberty and control of private property.

[LittleLion]

I still believe the Prophet an at least some of the Apostles are aware of the responsibility of LDS people to maintain our rights and privileges and support our freedom, or in other words protect life, liberty and control of private property. But I also believe they realize that to promote those things now would invite retribution against the Church that would impede its missionary and building programs and frustrate its efforts to promote the principles of the gospel. Therefore I do not fault the Prophet at all. Beyond that I don't trust my own opinions. But I do fault those prominent LDS people who have set a bad example by promoting and supporting legislation and programs that adversely affect life, liberty and control of private property.

Please don't misunderstand, I am not faulting the Prophet. I agree with your assessment about retribution as I have thought that for a very long time. It is one of the only assessments that makes sense in this case. I agree it is hard to trust our own opinions when we are torn between what Christ has said and the way the world actually is. The time is at hand when we will all be required to choose. The choices will be the most difficult we have ever had to face or ever will have to face in this life. My wife and I have chosen, we will choose Christ, live or die. This experience, this reality, this test, is for making the hard choices. It has been said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crises maintain their neutrality.

[lundbaek]

"....unless the people of America forsake the sins and the errors, political and otherwise, of which they are now guilty and return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government, there will be no exaltation for them spiritually, and politically we shall lose our liberty and free institutions."

Interesting that the First Presidency of Heber J. Grant would write this in a relatively private letter to a FedGov official but no Prophet would, as far as I know, ever put it this way directly to the Church membership. I'd bet the Lord planned for this cat to b\get out of the bag at this time., and in a way that would not cause upheaval in the Church.

[LittleLion]

"....unless the people of America forsake the sins and the errors, political and otherwise, of which they are now guilty and return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government, there will be no exaltation for them spiritually, and politically we shall lose our liberty and free institutions."

Interesting that the First Presidency of Heber J. Grant would write this in a relatively private letter to a FedGov official but no Prophet would, as far as I know, ever put it this way directly to the Church membership. I'd bet the Lord planned for this cat to b\get out of the bag at this time., and in a way that would not cause upheaval in the Church.

Interesting and so true. I believe it was President McKay who said all governments are controlled by satan at this time. I could be wrong I will have to check. I would hope that all the prophets, as Christ directs, would send this voice of warning to government officials.

[buffalo_girl]

Lundbaek, I haven't searched this site, but this page came up on The Constitution: Supreme Law of the Land with quotes from Founding Fathers & early legal minds regarding 'tampering' with the original intent.

http://www.ourrepubliconline.com/topic/27" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or is this actually your site? Sure sounds like you.

http://www.ourrepubliconline.com/Page/12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lundbaek]

As an Apostle, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote in "Doctrines of Salvation", Vol.3, pp. 314-315: "Satan has control now. No matter where you look, he is in control, even in our own land. He is guiding the governments as far as the Lord will permit him. That is why there is so much strife, turmoil, confusion all over the earth. One master mind is governing the nations. It is not the President of the United States...it is not the king or government of England or any other land; it is Satan himself." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, pp. 314-315)

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, speaking in the April 1980 General Conference, stated: "Gadianton robbers fill the judgement seats in many nations. An evil power seeks to overthrow the freedom of all nations and countries."

[sonofliberty]

I still believe the Prophet an at least some of the Apostles are aware of the responsibility of LDS people to maintain our rights and privileges and support our freedom, or in other words protect life, liberty and control of private property. But I also believe they realize that to promote those things now would invite retribution against the Church that would impede its missionary and building programs and frustrate its efforts to promote the principles of the gospel. Therefore I do not fault the Prophet at all. Beyond that I don't trust my own opinions. But I do fault those prominent LDS people who have set a bad example by promoting and supporting legislation and programs that adversely affect life, liberty and control of private property.

My thoughts exactly lundbaek. +1

[GeeR]

I still believe the Prophet an at least some of the Apostles are aware of the responsibility of LDS people to maintain our rights and privileges and support our freedom, or in other words protect life, liberty and control of private property. But I also believe they realize that to promote those things now would invite retribution against the Church that would impede its missionary and building programs and frustrate its efforts to promote the principles of the gospel. Therefore I do not fault the Prophet at all. Beyond that I don't trust my own opinions. But I do fault those prominent LDS people who have set a bad example by promoting and supporting legislation and programs that adversely affect life, liberty and control of private property.

I agree we should not fault the Prophet, especially if he's being held hostage, but the fault is with the members. The church consists of a two-tier prophet structure—(1) leadership prophets and (2) membership prophets. (I Cor. 14:31-32) The leadership prophets are to “befriend the mammon of unrighteousness” (D&C 82:22) to placate them and be “subject to the powers that be” (D&C 58:22) for the purpose of safeguarding the continuation of the missionary program, the temple building program and protecting the future assets of Zion. On the other hand the membership prophets are to step forward and save the Constitution as admonished by Ezra Taft Benson when he said: “The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church [meaning not its leadership].” (Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1965, pp. 121-125). http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Without this two-tier prophet structure with separate governmental expectations, the objective of pacifying the corrupt “powers that be” would contradict and nullify the objective of saving the Constitution from the corrupt powers. So a two-tier prophet structure is necessary to balance these contrarian objectives.

[lundbaek]

I had never thought in terms of a two-tier prophet structure with separate governmental expectations. What I am coming to see the need for is for members of the Church to step forward and save the Constitution. If it happens that way, I doubt it will involve a large number of Church members simply because they do not understand are not prepared to support the proper role of government. In recent years I have been trying to persuade church leaders up to and at the bishop and stake president level to become interested is the freedom battle. Any more, now, I am focusing on members and others who already have concern and care about restoring our freedoms.

[LittleLion]

Without this two-tier prophet structure with separate governmental expectations, the objective of pacifying the corrupt “powers that be” would contradict and nullify the objective of saving the Constitution from the corrupt powers. So a two-tier prophet structure is necessary to balance these contrarian objectives.

Any more, now, I am focusing on members and others who already have concern and care about restoring our freedoms.

Without the help and intercession of the Lord there is almost nothing that can be done. To change or rescind any laws or to change the way satan works in the halls of our federal and local capitals, would be to sit down with satan at the bargaining table and expect him to just give back what he has taken from us. He has taken what he has through much time, effort and blood. Without the requisite time, effort and blood on our part we will never get back what he has stolen from us. Unless the Lord helps us. Things can change fast but when the same cost is paid in a shorter period of time its no longer the frog boiling in the water principle, its all out war. We do not have 200 plus years to get back what satan has stolen from us imo. And, the Lord will not wait much longer before he sweeps the iniquity off the promised land and quells the millions of voices rising up from the dust for vengeance. Teach as many people as we can the correct role of government and what the constitution means. But, do not trust a hope of changing this government into what it was supposed to be all along.

Is this a defeatist attitude? Maybe. But, the 1000's of hours and dollars that I have spent and the lives that many many individuals have spent in trying to change things for the better have not slowed down satan much. There are many efforts underway now but best not to talk about them on an open forum.

[GeeR]

I commend you for your efforts. Really, what your doing is going to land you into the Celestial Kingdom!
Just read a great article called: The Weightier Matters of the Law: A plea to Latter-day Saints to Awaken.
http://www.connorboyack.com/images/weig ... atters.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[LittleLion]

Thanks geer that is a good article.

What we need is a tipping point of people that really understand AND want the change. There are already enough people that understand what is happening but nowhere near enough people that want the change. Many many people have sold out for a piece of the pie and a stake of their own. They think they will be left alone when the culling begins, they wont.

So now what we need is people that are close to the Lord AND understand AND want the change. It only takes a few of these types of people because the Lord is leading the way. But if he has none to lead then it will not get done. No matter what the cost we still must try. But it gets exceedingly frustrating when little changes after so much effort and even lives have been expended.

People that truly understand realize that when they start the fight and jump in with both feet that their lives will change forever. Meaning they are alone for the most part. Their families and friends don't understand because, after all, the Lord has blessed them with money, substance and wealth so why rock the boat? Why fight a system that has giving them so much?

When you try to explain to them the real costs that this system has exacted on millions of lives around the world they shut off and do not want to hear it. This is not just a fight for this country or the constitution, although this is where is starts and ends, the costs are paid by people all over this planet. The Nephites were surrounded many times on all sides with no earthly hope of escape, outnumbered 3 to 1, 5 to 1 even 10 to 1. Only with the help of the Lord through their faith were they able to come out on top.

We, at this time, in this place, in this dispensation of the fullness of times, are outnumbered by orders of magnitude more than the Nephites ever were. I don't know what the tipping point is for the Lord to save this people and this country and forgo what has been prophesied when the majority will be swept off this promised land. I do know, that unless we seek truth through the Lord and gain his blessings there is no chance for us in this life or most probably the next. Especially since this generation has been saved for this time, we are up at bat, other generations are on base, we need to drive them home as well as ourselves.

Unfortunately, this is not a game. This is as real as it gets.

[GeeR]

Would the 2 witnesses of Rev.11 make a good tipping point?

[LittleLion]

Would the 2 witnesses of Rev.11 make a good tipping point?

Yes, I would say that the two Prophets that lie in the streets three and a half days would be the tipping point for many things as the scriptures say. By the time that event happens it is too late for change in the manner that we are talking.

[freedomforall]

Without this two-tier prophet structure with separate governmental expectations, the objective of pacifying the corrupt “powers that be” would contradict and nullify the objective of saving the Constitution from the corrupt powers. So a two-tier prophet structure is necessary to balance these contrarian objectives.

Any more, now, I am focusing on members and others who already have concern and care about restoring our freedoms.

Without the help and intercession of the Lord there is almost nothing that can be done. To change or rescind any laws or to change the way satan works in the halls of our federal and local capitals, would be to sit down with satan at the bargaining table and expect him to just give back what he has taken from us. He has taken what he has through much time, effort and blood. Without the requisite time, effort and blood on our part we will never get back what he has stolen from us. Unless the Lord helps us. Things can change fast but when the same cost is paid in a shorter period of time its no longer the frog boiling in the water principle, its all out war. We do not have 200 plus years to get back what satan has stolen from us imo. And, the Lord will not wait much longer before he sweeps the iniquity off the promised land and quells the millions of voices rising up from the dust for vengeance. Teach as many people as we can the correct role of government and what the constitution means. But, do not trust a hope of changing this government into what it was supposed to be all along.

Is this a defeatist attitude? Maybe. But, the 1000's of hours and dollars that I have spent and the lives that many many individuals have spent in trying to change things for the better have not slowed down satan much. There are many efforts underway now but best not to talk about them on an open forum.

The membership of our church, as a whole, are not pleasing God by being complacent, idle in doing anything to restore freedom and liberty and ignoring the counsel to befriend the Constitution. It is given us by the same person we got the Ten Commandments from. Prophets have warned us about our lack of concern, and holds those accepting Constitutional concepts to be chipped away, accountable. Further, God considers those that do nothing to save our freedoms to be part of the tares. The cleansing of the church in doing away with the tares will include the members that did nothing to support our freedoms. And those that supported elected officials that helped to destroy them. The Constitution is all about free agency. Satan is for taking it from us however he can. The war in heaven continues here in that fight. Unfortunately, too many members support Satan a little at a time.
We have been told that Satan has accomplished the goal of neutralizing the priesthood. They now sleep and watch our country disintegrate, and even support the destruction in several ways. God is not pleased with this and our prophets have warned us too.
I'm reading http://www.connorboyack.com/images/weig ... atters.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ...and it's a real eye opener. But of course, those who are asleep will never get the message. It contains many, many words from prophets.
Don't give up the fight, LittleLion.

[GeeR]

Would the 2 witnesses of Rev.11 make a good tipping point?

Yes, I would say that the two Prophets that lie in the streets three and a half days would be the tipping point for many things as the scriptures say. By the time that event happens it is too late for change in the manner that we are talking.

We only know about the end of their ministry but the beginning of their ministry is undisclosed and I think it is at hand and it concerns the saving of the Constitution.

[freedomforall]

I have faith that God will inspire people to go forth and do something, or, at least, people will wake up and go forth on their own. This land is the "promised land" spoken of in scripture. I don't think God will let it fall under complete control of the NWO. He has a stake in this country as well. He ordained it to be a free nation. There are still many, many righteous people in this country. In the BoM we read in 3 Nephi where he saved many righteous people from destruction because of their righteousness, although he did say they were only the more righteous, and called them to repentance. I think God will do the same thing now. If this country were to be overtaken by the commies his work would be halted in various ways. Christians would be targeted and annihilated...so how would that help in the missionary cause? Only time will tell.

[lundbaek]

I concluded my priesthood lesson today with the statement “The Book of Mormon reveals the design and will of Heavenly Father concerning the political liberty of His children.....We have a doctrinal imperative to preserve liberty.....The Book of Mormon teaches the meaning of freedom and the role of government.”