The Not Even Once Club

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EmmaLee
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by EmmaLee »

lemuel wrote:
Fairminded wrote: The fact that this book could slip through the cracks and make it to publication and promotion by the Church is deeply troubling. The notion that maybe it didn't actually slip through the cracks and this is the message Church leadership really wants to send to members and to the world, well, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume this was just a mistake and hope they'll correct it.
Does the Church own Deseret Book? I wasn't under the impression that anything published by DB had an official stamp of approval.
Yes, Deseret Book is owned wholly by Deseret Management Corporation, which is owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (according to DB).

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jbalm
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by jbalm »

coachmarc wrote:I just finished reading this book. I think the story was developed properly. It is a very short read with a singularly conveyed idea. The issue of breaking a rule could easily be addressed in a sequel and a series made without a problem to address the Atonement and other doctrinal principles.
That would be funny.

"If you want to find out how to get back in the club, buy the sequel to 'Not Even Once'--'Okay, Just Once Though.'" That could be followed by "Maybe Twice, But That's It."

It could be a series.

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ajax
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by ajax »

jbalm wrote:
coachmarc wrote:I just finished reading this book. I think the story was developed properly. It is a very short read with a singularly conveyed idea. The issue of breaking a rule could easily be addressed in a sequel and a series made without a problem to address the Atonement and other doctrinal principles.
That would be funny.

"If you want to find out how to get back in the club, buy the sequel to 'Not Even Once'--'Okay, Just Once Though.'" That could be followed by "Maybe Twice, But That's It."

It could be a series.
Whew what a series. 70 times 7 even.

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jbalm
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by jbalm »

The final book in the series will be "Hell With It, Do What You Want."

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lemuel
Operating Thetan
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by lemuel »

Stella Solaris wrote:
lemuel wrote:
Fairminded wrote: The fact that this book could slip through the cracks and make it to publication and promotion by the Church is deeply troubling. The notion that maybe it didn't actually slip through the cracks and this is the message Church leadership really wants to send to members and to the world, well, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume this was just a mistake and hope they'll correct it.
Does the Church own Deseret Book? I wasn't under the impression that anything published by DB had an official stamp of approval.
Yes, Deseret Book is owned wholly by Deseret Management Corporation, which is owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (according to DB).
Thanks, didn't know that.

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marc
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by marc »

jbalm and ajax, you guys slay me! =))

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jdawg1012
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by jdawg1012 »

Stella Solaris wrote:
lemuel wrote:
Fairminded wrote: The fact that this book could slip through the cracks and make it to publication and promotion by the Church is deeply troubling. The notion that maybe it didn't actually slip through the cracks and this is the message Church leadership really wants to send to members and to the world, well, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume this was just a mistake and hope they'll correct it.
Does the Church own Deseret Book? I wasn't under the impression that anything published by DB had an official stamp of approval.
Yes, Deseret Book is owned wholly by Deseret Management Corporation, which is owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (according to DB).
Actually, I want to correct an implication, and clarify how DB works (or did pretty recently).

Deseret Book IS owned by the Church, however, not everything published by Deseret Book is doctrine.
I wasn't under the impression that anything published by DB had an official stamp of approval.
While I don't know the definition of the "stamp of approval" is, Deseret Book Company has several subdivisions, including Bookcraft, Deseret Book, and Eaglegate (unless they have phased some of them out very recently). These subdivisions are for different types of book (secular; moral, but not necessarily church related, etc.), and may or may not have anything to do with doctrine. Not a single one publishes "doctrine" or in my opinion an "Official Stamp of Approval."

Deseret Book itself also carries many books published by other, smaller companies that may or may not have ANYTHING to do with church, most notably, the Twilight series. But there are thousands of others.

At the time that I worked there (a couple of years, several years ago), there were members of the Seventy that oversaw the running of DB, but it was made clear that purchasers, not general authorities, bought books. Sometimes in an arranged deal with many titles that were not well scrutinized. I remember more than once, some questionable things came through, and once found, were sent back. Usually these were books sent to one or a few stores, but not carried company wide, as DB carries regional titles too (think an atlas for the state, or state history, etc.), depending upon where they are located.

In any event, books published by Deseret Book are (almost?) always prefaced by saying they are the sole opinions of the author, and are NOT doctrine (I have never seen a DB titled without this disclaimer, even those written by General Authorities). The distinction between doctrinal publications (that have gone through correlation, and are, in fact, doctrine), and an author's opinions and musings is the "Intellectual Reserve" copyright. Saying a book published by Deseret Book (or it's subsidiaries) is doctrine (or has a stamp of approval), is like saying clothing sold as City Creek are garments, or approved by the Church. Neither is true. But something that holds the Intellectual Reserve copyright is in fact considered doctrine by the Church.

That having been said, if one wanted to debate the merits and business practices of Deseret Book Company, I have a long line opinions from my time employed there, but won't delve into them on this thread.

EmmaLee
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by EmmaLee »

jbalm wrote:The final book in the series will be "Hell With It, Do What You Want."
I have to admit - this literally made me laugh out loud.

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jdawg1012
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by jdawg1012 »

jbalm wrote:The final book in the series will be "Hell With It, Do What You Want."
I haven't commented upon this thread until now (first to clarify info about DB, and secondly this), but your comment sparked something.

While there are multiple messages in this book that are absolutely ghastly. I'm going to reference only three (for now).

The first is the idea that one has to be perfect to be in any "club."
The second is that exclusive clubs are anything other than an abomination.
The third is that mortals (other than Jesus, Himself during His life, maybe) have any authority to be the deciders of who gets into the alluded to club (heaven, though it may not be the author's intention to draw this parallel).

The essence of the problem that many have is that the author (I am familiar with some of Dr. Watson/Nelson's work) seems to indicate that you're either mortally perfect or going to hell. I have seen this among many, many people. When one creates this false dichotomy of the idea that we have to be perfect (in mortal life), or that nothing we do matters (because we're just cast off), one feels guilty, guilty, guilty, and then, as jbalm alluded to, says, "Forget it, if no matter how hard I try, I'm guilty, I'm just going to stop 'trying'." I have seen this happen to a lot of people, and have at times nearly felt this way in the past.

Even small children that I see baptized often say something like, "Now I'm clean and I'll never sin again." Because I've seen teachers say that the baptismal covenant is that one will never sin again, and that we break it every week, and take the sacrament to make us clean again. This false doctrine is destructive, because, from what I've seen, it makes people think that they can either somehow earn their way into heaven (usually in the form of "Well, at least I don't ______," ie. they're not as bad as someone else); or also that the atonement is a quid pro quo, "The sacrament covers all the little sins that I forgot to repent for during the week."

So I understand the dilemma Dr. Watson/Nelson has.

In the (false) dichotomy of "be perfect (never committing a sin, rather than repenting of them when you inevitably do) in mortal life" and "justify in committing a little sin," I think she's trying to teach people to err on the side of caution. However, since the definition of "sin" is to miss the mark, I think that this book rationalizes one sin, over another.

Jesus himself implied that there are two kinds of people (Conference talks have even mentioned the fact that there was no third son, that said "I will" and then did):
Matthew 21:

28 ¶But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Notice who He says go to heaven before them (The nonmembers of the "Not Even Once" club!) So, there's only two kinds of people: The rebellious that repent; And the hypocrites (because it's impossible not to be) that say they'll be perfect and inevitably fall short. Save Jesus alone, no one says they will, and then does. That's why we need the merits of Him who is mighty to save. And I testify of that in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Lizzy60
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by Lizzy60 »

Bravo, jdawg!!!

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stillwater
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by stillwater »

Lizzy60 wrote:Bravo, jdawg!!!
agreed.

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Original_Intent
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by Original_Intent »

I am sad to say that one thought that crossed my mind is that someone needs to write a book "The Everybody Screws Up Club".

Sadly I will admit that the word I thought of instead of "Screws Up" almost certainly will keep me out of the "Not Even Once" club. :(

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jdawg1012
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by jdawg1012 »

stillwater wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:Bravo, jdawg!!!
agreed.
Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it.

P.S. OI, you gave me my laugh of the day, I'm still chuckling.

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ajax
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by ajax »

Let's just hope it doesn't show up in a primary class or sharing time near you.

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lemuel
Operating Thetan
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by lemuel »

stillwater wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:Bravo, jdawg!!!
agreed.
Well said.

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jbalm
The Third Comforter
Posts: 5348

Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by jbalm »

stillwater wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:Bravo, jdawg!!!
agreed.
Gotta give my +1.

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AussieOi
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Posts: 6137
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by AussieOi »

jbalm wrote:A woman who never had a kid:

-Teaches kids that they need to be "perfect" to be in "the club."

-Teaches kids that the first time they screw up, they are out of "the club."

Sounds like a good idea.

Anyway, I've got to go. I've got an appointment with my mechanic for an appendectomy. He's never actually done one, but he read a book about appendectomies. What could go wrong?



With attribution to areeffem.



Just wrote a review of her book:

After reading Sister Nelson's book, I was really excited to incorporate some of her ideas into my marriage. I especially liked how she suggested incorporating prayer, fasting, and scripture study into God-Ordained Marital Intimacy.© I also tried incorporating the "sacred language" into my marital intimacy. However, my spouse just looked at me weird when I said, "Wouldest though like to knowest me after thou hath committed prelude?" (prelude is sacred language for foreplay).

Although I took "exquisite care" to ensure our "activities don't offend the spirit," my spouse did not have "a grand and glorious experience that will continue eternally." My spouse suggested that next time we stick to having "worldly sex" even if involves "carnal, sensual, and devilish passions."

I commend Sister Watson for these excellent suggestions but since she has never been married, perhaps the actual experience of making love is more valuable than her PhD in Family Therapy.


-------------
There have been a few threads over last couple of days on Wendy Watson Nelson's ridiculous book, "The Not Even Once Club." The reviews on Amazon are humorous.

Well it turns out Wendy Watson Nelson doesn't just write psychologically damaging stuff for children. She has written a couple of books (before she polygamously married Elder Nelson) about sex and intimacy.

In particular, she has written about God-Ordained Marital Intimacy (GOMI). The stuff would be hilarious if not so psychologically damaging to the Mormons who read it.

Here's the link to the summary of GOMI v. "Wordly Sex": http://web.archive.org/web/200904071223 ... nWendy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thomas
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Posts: 4622

Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by Thomas »

jdawg1012 wrote:
jbalm wrote:The final book in the series will be "Hell With It, Do What You Want."
I haven't commented upon this thread until now (first to clarify info about DB, and secondly this), but your comment sparked something.

While there are multiple messages in this book that are absolutely ghastly. I'm going to reference only three (for now).

The first is the idea that one has to be perfect to be in any "club."
The second is that exclusive clubs are anything other than an abomination.
The third is that mortals (other than Jesus, Himself during His life, maybe) have any authority to be the deciders of who gets into the alluded to club (heaven, though it may not be the author's intention to draw this parallel).

The essence of the problem that many have is that the author (I am familiar with some of Dr. Watson/Nelson's work) seems to indicate that you're either mortally perfect or going to hell. I have seen this among many, many people. When one creates this false dichotomy of the idea that we have to be perfect (in mortal life), or that nothing we do matters (because we're just cast off), one feels guilty, guilty, guilty, and then, as jbalm alluded to, says, "Forget it, if no matter how hard I try, I'm guilty, I'm just going to stop 'trying'." I have seen this happen to a lot of people, and have at times nearly felt this way in the past.

Even small children that I see baptized often say something like, "Now I'm clean and I'll never sin again." Because I've seen teachers say that the baptismal covenant is that one will never sin again, and that we break it every week, and take the sacrament to make us clean again. This false doctrine is destructive, because, from what I've seen, it makes people think that they can either somehow earn their way into heaven (usually in the form of "Well, at least I don't ______," ie. they're not as bad as someone else); or also that the atonement is a quid pro quo, "The sacrament covers all the little sins that I forgot to repent for during the week."

So I understand the dilemma Dr. Watson/Nelson has.

In the (false) dichotomy of "be perfect (never committing a sin, rather than repenting of them when you inevitably do) in mortal life" and "justify in committing a little sin," I think she's trying to teach people to err on the side of caution. However, since the definition of "sin" is to miss the mark, I think that this book rationalizes one sin, over another.

Jesus himself implied that there are two kinds of people (Conference talks have even mentioned the fact that there was no third son, that said "I will" and then did):
Matthew 21:

28 ¶But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Notice who He says go to heaven before them (The nonmembers of the "Not Even Once" club!) So, there's only two kinds of people: The rebellious that repent; And the hypocrites (because it's impossible not to be) that say they'll be perfect and inevitably fall short. Save Jesus alone, no one says they will, and then does. That's why we need the merits of Him who is mighty to save. And I testify of that in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Amen Jdawg.

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

Gazelem wrote:
keep the faith wrote:Looks like Denver Snuffer has jumped to her defense. I'm sure he is being sincere here. Right? :-s

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Actually, I found it rather sarcastic. In fact, ever sense him publishing his whole deal about his disciplinary council and excommunication on the internet, his true colors are starting to show it seems, most of his updates are laced with sarcasm and dishonesty. But yes, some have said this thread is the opportunity for Snuffer lovers. I didn't hear about this book until I saw snuffer's update to be honest.
I'm curious to know what Denver Snuffer has been dishonest about. Can you point me to something he's said that was dishonest?

As far as being sarcastic - I'm pretty sure we're all going to hell for that - including the Savior Himself. ;) The spirit will witness truth even through sarcasm if a person is willing to receive truth. :)

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

AussieOi wrote:
jbalm wrote:A woman who never had a kid:

-Teaches kids that they need to be "perfect" to be in "the club."

-Teaches kids that the first time they screw up, they are out of "the club."

Sounds like a good idea.

Anyway, I've got to go. I've got an appointment with my mechanic for an appendectomy. He's never actually done one, but he read a book about appendectomies. What could go wrong?



With attribution to areeffem.



Just wrote a review of her book:

After reading Sister Nelson's book, I was really excited to incorporate some of her ideas into my marriage. I especially liked how she suggested incorporating prayer, fasting, and scripture study into God-Ordained Marital Intimacy.© I also tried incorporating the "sacred language" into my marital intimacy. However, my spouse just looked at me weird when I said, "Wouldest though like to knowest me after thou hath committed prelude?" (prelude is sacred language for foreplay).

Although I took "exquisite care" to ensure our "activities don't offend the spirit," my spouse did not have "a grand and glorious experience that will continue eternally." My spouse suggested that next time we stick to having "worldly sex" even if involves "carnal, sensual, and devilish passions."

I commend Sister Watson for these excellent suggestions but since she has never been married, perhaps the actual experience of making love is more valuable than her PhD in Family Therapy.


-------------
There have been a few threads over last couple of days on Wendy Watson Nelson's ridiculous book, "The Not Even Once Club." The reviews on Amazon are humorous.

Well it turns out Wendy Watson Nelson doesn't just write psychologically damaging stuff for children. She has written a couple of books (before she polygamously married Elder Nelson) about sex and intimacy.

In particular, she has written about God-Ordained Marital Intimacy (GOMI). The stuff would be hilarious if not so psychologically damaging to the Mormons who read it.

Here's the link to the summary of GOMI v. "Wordly Sex": http://web.archive.org/web/200904071223 ... nWendy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
=))

Fiannan
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Posts: 12983

Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by Fiannan »

Sad that the trend for concentration of the secular media into the hands of a privileged few has also occurred in the Church. It would be nice if there were some publishers who, while devout in their beliefs in the Restored Gospel, were out there sending out quality books that were not just white-bread, feel-good products aimed at the masses.

Fiannan
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Posts: 12983

Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by Fiannan »

Hey, just found the clubhouse for the "Not Even Once Club"

Image

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brlenox
A sheep in wolf in sheep's clothing
Posts: 2615

Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by brlenox »

JulesGP wrote:
Gazelem wrote:
keep the faith wrote:Looks like Denver Snuffer has jumped to her defense. I'm sure he is being sincere here. Right? :-s

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Actually, I found it rather sarcastic. In fact, ever sense him publishing his whole deal about his disciplinary council and excommunication on the internet, his true colors are starting to show it seems, most of his updates are laced with sarcasm and dishonesty. But yes, some have said this thread is the opportunity for Snuffer lovers. I didn't hear about this book until I saw snuffer's update to be honest.
I'm curious to know what Denver Snuffer has been dishonest about. Can you point me to something he's said that was dishonest?

As far as being sarcastic - I'm pretty sure we're all going to hell for that - including the Savior Himself. ;) The spirit will witness truth even through sarcasm if a person is willing to receive truth. :)
Jules, you did not respond when I proffered an answer on the other thread but this post from there deals with what I perceive the primary form of Denver's tendencies that are deceptive. The first half of the response is what addresses this issue that you inquire about here.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30012&start=21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is very clear cut but I suspect many will not acknowledge it.

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AussieOi
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Posts: 6137
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by AussieOi »

Personally I am troubled by the change away from what was an always testimony, to, 'not even once'.

Watering down the difference? Embracing the new protestant paradigm?

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Franktalk
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Re: The Not Even Once Club

Post by Franktalk »

jdawg1012 wrote: Deseret Book IS owned by the Church, however, not everything published by Deseret Book is doctrine.
Everything published by Denver Snuffer is not doctrine of the church. Your comment works both ways. If the church holds Denver responsible then the church has responsibilities as well.

Someone posted that Utah has an above average amount of porn and anti-depressants. No wonder if the children are brainwashed into an alternative reality which does not exist on earth.

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