Saving Seats in Church: When Is It Too Much?

[shestalou]

http://ldsliving.com/story/72990-saving ... -yes-or-no" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I find this a bit disturbing, especially for a church that preaches missionary work as a top priority, I think its ok to save a seat for family members but to reserve them? That is going way to far? :ymdevil: He must really be enjoying this!

[LesliePOV]

5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

[Ribble]

I think this is just another example of how leadership in the gospel has become more timid and weak.
The bishop is often intimidated by ward members and is afraid to speak out on such issues.

Another example is the common practice of having babies "bawling" in sacrament. The parent often stays with the baby in the pew way too long before eventually heading for the foyer. And to make matters worse...is when this same scenario takes place within the first few rows of the podium. Have you ever given a talk all the while a baby is "blowing out a lung" just a few feet from you? Not good! :-s

I remember my bishop wanting to speak out about having parents remove crying babies from meetings more quickly... but he backed away due to fear. He didn't want to ruffle any feathers.

This is what's bothering me about facets of the church and our culture in general. Good people are becoming too tolerant of bad behavior.

[Ribble]

Huh, er...I have no idea why 'foyer' and 'crying babies' are underlined??? I didn't do and tried to edit it out....at least I don't think I did it?

[shestalou]

I have no problem with crying babies, that is what they do, I dont think parents should stay home because their afraid of a child acting out or a crying baby, but reserving seats for people who might not even show up, I have gladly given my seat up for anyone in need! This is the church of Jesus Christ and we must become like him to properly present his gospel.

[BringerOfJoy]

Let me share a "seat-saving" episode that happened in our stake. A member of the 12 was coming for stake conference--a rare thing here; and it was the first time in 40 years. I have two friends with non-member husbands who were able to convince their husbands to go with them to see this apostle; and they got to the stake center very early, and as soon as the doors were unlocked, they picked out their seats up in the front. Later someone came in and told them they would have to move because those seats were reserved for the families of the stake presidency.

I don't know who made that decision to reserve those seats in such a way, but, wow! Talk about making a negative impression on the two non-members. If someone felt that was necessary, the very least they could have done is to have someone there before the doors opened to the public to label the pews. But, I thought we were supposed to be "no-respecters of persons." (And you could use that two ways relating to this particular episode ... ). When this subject came up with one of the stake-presidency wives who is also an acquaintance, she defended the action, saying: "We get darn few perks for our husbands serving all those years in that capacity." Really?

[karend77]

I think this is just another example of how leadership in the gospel has become more timid and weak.
The bishop is often intimidated by ward members and is afraid to speak out on such issues.

Another example is the common practice of having babies "bawling" in sacrament. The parent often stays with the baby in the pew way too long before eventually heading for the foyer. And to make matters worse...is when this same scenario takes place within the first few rows of the podium. Have you ever given a talk all the while a baby is "blowing out a lung" just a few feet from you? Not good! :-s

I remember my bishop wanting to speak out about having parents remove crying babies from meetings more quickly... but he backed away due to fear. He didn't want to ruffle any feathers.

This is what's bothering me about facets of the church and our culture in general. Good people are becoming too tolerant of bad behavior.

You know I used to feel that way before I had children (embarassing to say that I was that way). I wasnt very tolerant. Since children and grandchildren have come into my life, I have changed. If there are any around me that start to get fussy I try to distract them or play with them and give the parents a break. You can't tell with a baby if they can be calmed down immediately with food or toy, or whether it's a total meltdown, so it takes some time (couple of minutes) to tell. Sometimes new parents are so crazy tired that the ability to think clearly is a challenge. I notice many who offer to take the child out for the parent and give them a 10 minute break.

Back to the original topic on saving seats, this was a sad story, and I bet those involved are feeling a little embarrassed about now. Maybe people should reconsider using MST (mormon standard time) and actually get to their meetings on time and seat saving wouldnt be an issue B-)

[gkearney]

When is it too much? When it leads to the police being called it is "too much".

[samizdat]

This episode that happened in Utah is beyond stupidity, and honestly, I couldn't see this happening anywhere outside of Utah, except maybe Eastern Idaho.

Shared this with my family here in Mexico, and their response was how stupid could you get?

[Benjamin_LK]

I think this is just another example of how leadership in the gospel has become more timid and weak.
The bishop is often intimidated by ward members and is afraid to speak out on such issues.

Another example is the common practice of having babies "bawling" in sacrament. The parent often stays with the baby in the pew way too long before eventually heading for the foyer. And to make matters worse...is when this same scenario takes place within the first few rows of the podium. Have you ever given a talk all the while a baby is "blowing out a lung" just a few feet from you? Not good! :-s

I remember my bishop wanting to speak out about having parents remove crying babies from meetings more quickly... but he backed away due to fear. He didn't want to ruffle any feathers.

This is what's bothering me about facets of the church and our culture in general. Good people are becoming too tolerant of bad behavior.

In my building in Pennsylvania, the sound of what is being spoken on the microphone can be heard in the foyer outside the chapel, via a speaker system. So you can at least hear what is being said if you, for some reason, have to be outside of the chapel. I don't know Utah extensively, as I have only really attended church in Highland, aside from my improvised "chapels" as a BYU Student, but that is the case in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania.

[idahommie]

A regular occurrence here in Florida......
Stake conference, leadership meeting at 4pm Sat, after which people drape their suitcoats and scriptures on the pews to reserve for sat night priesthood session, they spread them out again and leave them overnight for Sundays general session.
Appalling that the Stake Pres. Allows this.
First ward I've ever attended where the cameras come out in mass whenever the primary children sing in Sacrament Meeting.

[Tawanda]

Crying babies are like promises; they need to be carried out.

[davedan]

Elder Nelson spoke at a BYU married student regional conference 12 years ago at the Marriot Center. I'm sure close to half the students there had a crying infant on their lap. We had all already been sitting in the cramped seating for more than an hour. Elder Nelson said to begin his talk"

"If you are a mother or a father with a crying baby in your lap right now. Kiss it, and let it cry."

And Oh, how the cries rang out. But we all still felt the spirit. I have no idea what Elder Nelson spoke on.

[leth]

I sit in the overflow where I belong.

No seat saving, except in the case of handicapped or disabled in which a particular seat provides them greater comfort and ease of access.

A Bishop might at first be subtle, place something in the flyer. If it persists, read scripture for them that can hear. Lastly, straight out declare from the pulpit that there will be no seat saving. Most likely, if a family saves a row of seats, they show up every week. They aren't going to be offended into inactivity for being reminded of policy.

[RyanK]

Good news. It was just announced today in our ward of the discontinuation of seat reservations--now a first-come-first-serve basis. It was getting to the point of some coming to the chapel Saturday night to lay down their things to reserve a pew. It was common to come twenty minutes prior to sacrament meeting and nearly all the pews already taken by either those present or inanimate books.

Don't take me the wrong way. It's a great ward. I look up to many members there. Especially glad the leadership had the courage to intervene and settle this concern.

[rockwood]

Update to this story...
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=304757 ... -pew-space" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[WarMonger]

How wonderful, I am definitely moving to Utah and visiting a different chapel each week and sitting right in the middle on top of the books, jackets that are left behind. Utah mormons are a curse and need to be sorted out - clean the inner vessel first.

D&C 112:24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.
25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

[Bananikka]

Amen to all of these posts!!!! I'm not from here but live here now (utah) and I will say I am
Disgusted at the way everybody behaves when there's a parade planned. A week or 2 beforehand the blankets strings and chairs cover the entire street. Nobody can go unless thy cheat this way! I refuse to even try to go anymore it is so rude and thoughtless. And we're supposed to be a kind loving Christian people!! My poor kids never go to parades and probably never will. I just can't see how nobody thinks this is rude!

[Bananikka]

I'm
Sorry but where I come from if you want to see the parade up close you play fair and get up early. I'm not trying to offend anybody, but I truly am
Shocked at how inconsiderate a practice this is and how not one soul seems to notice. It certainly would
Never fly where I was raised.

[Hyrcanus]

The seat saving thing is ridiculous. I've never seen anything like what is being described in any of the wards I've been in.

Taking a crying child out to the foyer is easy, I do it nearly every week. No reason to make disrupt other people because I don't feel like taking care of my child.

[Lizzy60]

My ward is in a smaller building, and we open up all three overflow areas for sacrament meeting. However, every single week, the entire front row, center aisle, is completely empty. So weird.
However, and I think I posted about it earlier in this thread, the saving seats at our Stake Conferences had gotten so out of hand that an announcement was made at the Sat evening session that anyone leaving coats or scriptures to save their seats for the Sun morning session would find them in the lost and found.

[AI2.0]

Seat saving here in Salt Lake has gotten way out of control. Try to attend a community/school dance performance, concert, etc. and you will run into it. You arrive a 1/2 hour early thinking you'll get a good seat and you find that coats, books and bags have already taken all the best spots---loooooong rows saved this way and sometimes there is not a soul in sight. I guess they went out to get dinner before the performance :-w And, if that wasn't rude enough, the people who the seats were saved for often either don't show up or they come in late! I don't know who's responsible for promulgating this obnoxious behavior, as I don't think it is just LDS people, but it ought to stop. I have no problem with saving a couple of seats, sometimes it is necessary, but taking up whole rows and disappearing so you can traipse in at the last minute is bad manners and it is especially rude when others come early and still can't find a seat.

People in church have a tendency to 'stake out' their regular spot to sit. That's natural human nature, but when guests come they should feel comfortable sitting wherever there is an open bench and not worry that they are ruffling feathers. As far as I know, we don't pay for our family pews in LDS chapels and so we don't own them.

As for crying babies. I know how hard it was to have noisy children in church and I used to spend a lot of time out in the foyer, but what I've noticed in the last 10 years is that younger couples don't seem embarrassed by their crying children and I noticed recently that I rarely see people out in the foyer with babies and toddlers anymore. I've also noticed adults speaking full voice to their children during the meeting, not even attempting to whisper--and these are people who ought to be more aware. We have a lot of young families in our ward and there have been times when the children were crying so loud I could not hear the speaker--I'm sure people with hearing aids can't hear hardly any of our speakers.
I'm not sure what can be done, if people are so oblivious to not be able to tell when their child is too disruptive, what are the rest of us to do? That is what we call common courtesy and I'm afraid it is not being passed on to younger generations. They used to push reverence to the Primary--maybe we need to have reverence lessons in Priesthood and Relief Society also--maybe parents need to be made aware of the problem and how it affects those around them.

[WarMonger]

I remember reading an account a few months back where a young guy (14y) was on the Mormon battalion with Joseph Smith. Near the End they crossed a river found an abondoned old log building and the youth were told by Joseph to clean it out for sleeping quarter so after cleaning it out they put their blankets down on the floor and opened them out to save the good spot to sleep in. Then a number of brethren who were complaining about Joseph too ill with cholera and were taken and placed on those blankets and later died, and were buried in the blankets.

Not only did they loose their place to sleep but had no blanket for the rest of the march. Seems like the guys in Utah sill have not learnt their lesson. Not to worry in +/- 18 months time 50% of the population in the salt lake valley will be dead and they will be begging people to come and sit next to them in church.