Definition of Tithing in 1838 WAS "surplus" income after all

[AussieOi]

Never mind the futility (never mind irony) of dribbling on about how.you (FreedomFighter)only use scripture, but.in relation to this actual thread and the topic of tithing, you AREN'T even relying on the actual scripture but man's (modern) ...interpretation of [convenient] means to support the /..(convenient/ position

if scripture is_that_important, where is 119 in all this?

What does your moving but not related rehab story have to do with supporting your position (that you quote scripture to people to tell them.they shouldn't rely.on.scripture but should accept the hard to take (quote more scripture about their not accepting scripture because their hearts are hard) the corporate handbook interpretation of it.

I haven't explained this well because I am on a phone, not you come across to me as deranged. I'm sorry, that's my.observation and opinion and not a personal attack.

[freedomforall]

Thank you for your insight, I'll take it under advisement. Everything I say I try to back up with scripture...scripture I take at face value. God knows that people will not take his word as given, actually saying that many will become angry because of it because it will hurt at their very center. These are not my words. If someone is offended by God's word, that is not on me. There's too many people that walk away from a bishops office madder than a skunk because of something the bishop said.
I am sorry for hurting anyone's feelings by the things I say that are not scriptural, but I do not excuse myself for quoting God's word, and having someone take offense.

2 Nephi 9:40
40 O, my beloved brethren, give ear to my words. Remember the greatness of the Holy One of Israel. Do not say that I have spoken hard things against you; for if ye do, ye will revile against the truth; for I have spoken the words of your Maker. I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness; but the righteous fear them not, for they love the truth and are not shaken.

1 Nephi 16:2
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.

Do you want truth, well here it is.

Years ago, I didn't pay tithing, didn't want to, thought it was a waste of money...thought it was a unfair burden, and too much to ask. I was a sinner from the word go. Got so bad that I dug a pit for myself I thought I would never get out of. I loathed myself, wanted to die, to be banished from God forever.
Then one day, after wallowing around in my agony for several months, I knelt down and asked God for his help. Really asked.
Later, as I was driving home from work, I had a strong impression that I was going to CA but without my family. I simply shrugged it off. Well it happened two more times on separate occasions...total of three times over a few weeks.
Then it happened. I was informed by my company I was being permanently transferred to CA. I went alone because my wife divorced me.
I was angry, moody, unruly and didn't care about church at all. In fact, I gave it a lot of thought to just go in and have my name removed from the records of the church.
I looked around for the chapel closest to where I lived and made an appointment with the bishop. After entering his office a miracle occurred. Instead of doing what I went in for, I ended up confessing all my sins. To make a long story short, this is how I experienced the cleansing power of the Atonement. I was transformed into a new creature...the thing is it took almost two years before all the guilt, shame, hurt, pain and agony was replaced with peace, love and a new spirit.
This is why I am so emphatic. If someone really wants change in their life, if they want pain to be removed, if they want to feel the arms of the Savior's love, then they must go to Him. There is no way around it...I know.
Scriptures became sweet to me; I feasted on the word replacing bad thoughts with the word of God. I'm sorry I come on strong. It isn't out of meanness I assure you. It stems from experience.
I made excuses and avoided any advice. But in the end, it is God and only God that can change things for anyone seeking change.
This forum is not the place to vent anger, curse the church, confess major sins. This is not the proper channel in which to do these things; inner peace will not be found, nor sins forgiven.
Again, I will not excuse myself for quoting God's word. It is in "official church doctrine" for all to read, to search and to pray about for one's own understanding.
I am sorry for hurting anyone's feelings.

I know the risks of declaring God's word. I'm not close to being perfect, but I don't want to be called a scaredy cat for not trying to stand up for God. That's the least I can do for him for what he has done for me.

3 Nephi 12:10,11
10 And blessed are all they who are persecuted for my name’s sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 And blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake;

the thing is anyone can quote scripture to prove a point as we have witnessed in this entire thread from both sides. I don't believe you are a bad person, I don't believe you are quoting scripture falsely, I don't believe you are wrong. But your whole message can be destroyed by arrogance, pride, condemnation and condescension. You know you are lucky, we can take it, but to a non christian or non member? they won't want a piece of it, with those attitudes attached to the message.

Let me ask you this. Does God get his children into heaven by sweet talkin' them? Do the scriptures contain condemnation and warnings if his commandments are ignored? Do we call his way of telling us that if we do not do things his way is condescending or arrogant? When God says he will not allow sin in the least degree, do we look at him as being mean? Does he pat us on the back and say don't worry about a thing, you're in the kingdom? When we sin and are caught at it, and have to face the consequences...do we say he is unfair?
I believe that some people do not receive information as it was given; they do not receive in the same spirit as it was given. Therefore, how or why should I take responsibility for someone elses lack? When I confessed my sins to that bishop, he didn't say "everything is now okay." In fact, if I hadn't confessed and had been found out prior, I would have been excommunicated. Then would I have had the right to jump up and down and say "you're mean?" Believe me, some things he did say to me mad me angry, but I went forth and followed his counsel.
Pride? I think I know about pride. I know that it is pride that keeps people from changing their paradigm about how things are received, whether it is received with a learning attitude or a being condemned feeling. We get those same emotions just by reading scripture. Isn't there a lot of condemnation posed if we don't keep the commandments. We will go to hell by default if we ignore God's laws. As human's we either learn from scripture and act on what we learn, or we get mad and say phooey, I'm not doing that because it makes me mad and I think it is unfair.
I've already said I'm sorry for hurting feelings. I don't need to be told I'm arrogant, prideful, filled with condemnation and accused of condescension in response. But somehow, I'm not surprised.

[freedomforall]

freedomfighter, you just got a smackdown from one of the nicest people on this forum. If I were you, I would take a deep breath before saying whatever it is I was about to say next. I would click Preview and read it over a few times. I would even let it age overnight. In short, I would do whatever is necessary to keep from demonstrating a bass-ackwards view of civility.

I'm happy for you for feeling that way, you are entitled to your opinion.

[AussieOi]

Dude, you said a post or two up,

We will go to hell by default if we ignore God's laws"

Um, well hey, I'm not even saying that.

A.few.of us are just kinda saying D&C119.........well, that just happens TO BE gods law, you know, the scripture

I mean, you're rabbitting on all this sensible stuff about god, but its completely inconsistent with your_actual_position on this?

You can't see the contradiction in what you are doing here?

[drjme]

Thank you for your insight, I'll take it under advisement. Everything I say I try to back up with scripture...scripture I take at face value. God knows that people will not take his word as given, actually saying that many will become angry because of it because it will hurt at their very center. These are not my words. If someone is offended by God's word, that is not on me. There's too many people that walk away from a bishops office madder than a skunk because of something the bishop said.
I am sorry for hurting anyone's feelings by the things I say that are not scriptural, but I do not excuse myself for quoting God's word, and having someone take offense.

2 Nephi 9:40
40 O, my beloved brethren, give ear to my words. Remember the greatness of the Holy One of Israel. Do not say that I have spoken hard things against you; for if ye do, ye will revile against the truth; for I have spoken the words of your Maker. I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness; but the righteous fear them not, for they love the truth and are not shaken.

1 Nephi 16:2
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.

Do you want truth, well here it is.

Years ago, I didn't pay tithing, didn't want to, thought it was a waste of money...thought it was a unfair burden, and too much to ask. I was a sinner from the word go. Got so bad that I dug a pit for myself I thought I would never get out of. I loathed myself, wanted to die, to be banished from God forever.
Then one day, after wallowing around in my agony for several months, I knelt down and asked God for his help. Really asked.
Later, as I was driving home from work, I had a strong impression that I was going to CA but without my family. I simply shrugged it off. Well it happened two more times on separate occasions...total of three times over a few weeks.
Then it happened. I was informed by my company I was being permanently transferred to CA. I went alone because my wife divorced me.
I was angry, moody, unruly and didn't care about church at all. In fact, I gave it a lot of thought to just go in and have my name removed from the records of the church.
I looked around for the chapel closest to where I lived and made an appointment with the bishop. After entering his office a miracle occurred. Instead of doing what I went in for, I ended up confessing all my sins. To make a long story short, this is how I experienced the cleansing power of the Atonement. I was transformed into a new creature...the thing is it took almost two years before all the guilt, shame, hurt, pain and agony was replaced with peace, love and a new spirit.
This is why I am so emphatic. If someone really wants change in their life, if they want pain to be removed, if they want to feel the arms of the Savior's love, then they must go to Him. There is no way around it...I know.
Scriptures became sweet to me; I feasted on the word replacing bad thoughts with the word of God. I'm sorry I come on strong. It isn't out of meanness I assure you. It stems from experience.
I made excuses and avoided any advice. But in the end, it is God and only God that can change things for anyone seeking change.
This forum is not the place to vent anger, curse the church, confess major sins. This is not the proper channel in which to do these things; inner peace will not be found, nor sins forgiven.
Again, I will not excuse myself for quoting God's word. It is in "official church doctrine" for all to read, to search and to pray about for one's own understanding.
I am sorry for hurting anyone's feelings.

I know the risks of declaring God's word. I'm not close to being perfect, but I don't want to be called a scaredy cat for not trying to stand up for God. That's the least I can do for him for what he has done for me.

3 Nephi 12:10,11
10 And blessed are all they who are persecuted for my name’s sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 And blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake;

the thing is anyone can quote scripture to prove a point as we have witnessed in this entire thread from both sides. I don't believe you are a bad person, I don't believe you are quoting scripture falsely, I don't believe you are wrong. But your whole message can be destroyed by arrogance, pride, condemnation and condescension. You know you are lucky, we can take it, but to a non christian or non member? they won't want a piece of it, with those attitudes attached to the message.

Let me ask you this. Does God get his children into heaven by sweet talkin' them?

depends how you view you relationship with Him, Angry punishing Dad? or loving, nurturing father?

Do the scriptures contain condemnation and warnings if his commandments are ignored?

Yes, but again you can live a life of fear beneath a father with a vengeful wrath, our you can understand the concept of his undeniable perfect Love and live under that.

Do we call his way of telling us that if we do not do things his way is condescending or arrogant?

No, but I suppose He's allowed to talk like that, He's God. You and I, on the other hand are told to be compassionate, empathetic, kind and loving. Remember the only people that Christ rebuked were those who were living strict laws of tradition. I mean look at what was said to those who kept the 'perfect tithe' to the letter of the law:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

the prize isn't in the perfection of the act, These guys paid a perfect tithe of everything too, even down to the herbs in their garden! he said these things are meaningless if you do not work on the weightier matters! What are the weightier matters of the Gospel He delivered?
If you know them, then you are not in ignorance and will be judged by how well you live those weightier matters.


When God says he will not allow sin in the least degree, do we look at him as being mean? Does he pat us on the back and say don't worry about a thing, you're in the kingdom? When we sin and are caught at it, and have to face the consequences...do we say he is unfair?

Lucky we've got our savior who makes up for every shortcoming we have, of which we all have plenty. even in your attempts at perfection, you will fall short, just like everyone else, just like every other sinner. the only difference between you and the sinner is that you've accepted the eternally gracious gift of a loving savior.

I believe that some people do not receive information as it was given; they do not receive in the same spirit as it was given. Therefore, how or why should I take responsibility for someone elses lack?

It's not your prerogative to get arrogant when you deliver your message and people don't listen. It's not about the result for you, it's about being obedient to deliver the message, when you differentiate between the two you can always act in Love.

When I confessed my sins to that bishop, he didn't say "everything is now okay." In fact, if I hadn't confessed and had been found out prior, I would have been excommunicated. Then would I have had the right to jump up and down and say "you're mean?" Believe me, some things he did say to me mad me angry, but I went forth and followed his counsel.
Pride? I think I know about pride. I know that it is pride that keeps people from changing their paradigm about how things are received, whether it is received with a learning attitude or a being condemned feeling. We get those same emotions just by reading scripture. Isn't there a lot of condemnation posed if we don't keep the commandments. We will go to hell by default if we ignore God's laws. As human's we either learn from scripture and act on what we learn, or we get mad and say phooey, I'm not doing that because it makes me mad and I think it is unfair.

Again, what are the TWO GREATEST COMMANDMENTS, If you skip those two and then try and keep the rest you are missing the whole point of the gospel. The reason why they are the two greatest is because they are HARD to do without Christ

I've already said I'm sorry for hurting feelings. I don't need to be told I'm arrogant, prideful, filled with condemnation and accused of condescension in response. But somehow, I'm not surprised.

I'm sorry but just read your posts, not in anger, not from your POV, but from how someone with a different POV would look at it.
you have an overwhelming focus on doing things to avoid punishment. I used to be like this also, It was false in the sense that it isn't His true nature. The only reason He talks of punishment is because He must fulfill justice. Does he want to punish, banish and condemn? of course not, but because He is justified He must. And to that I would contend that he doesn't look down on all His lost children with an stern cold heart awaiting the day He can send them down, but instead that He would cry for the loss of souls of His children, because He must carry out His justice to those who wouldn't accept His mercy. Obeying to avoid punishment is operating out of fear, which is the opposite to faith. When we obey because we love it opens up a whole new world. I'm not saying you don't do this, I'm just sayin.

[drjme]

Dude, you said a post or two up,

We will go to hell by default if we ignore God's laws"

Um, well hey, I'm not even saying that.

A.few.of us are just kinda saying D&C119.........well, that just happens TO BE gods law, you know, the scripture

I mean, you're rabbitting on all this sensible stuff about god, but its completely inconsistent with your_actual_position on this?

You can't see the contradiction in what you are doing here?

Yeah i'm going way off track too

[freedomforall]

Never mind the futility (never mind irony) of dribbling on about how.you (FreedomFighter)only use scripture, but.in relation to this actual thread and the topic of tithing, you AREN'T even relying on the actual scripture but man's (modern) ...interpretation of [convenient] means to support the /..(convenient/ position

if scripture is_that_important, where is 119 in all this?

What does your moving but not related rehab story have to do with supporting your position (that you quote scripture to people to tell them.they shouldn't rely.on.scripture but should accept the hard to take (quote more scripture about their not accepting scripture because their hearts are hard) the corporate handbook interpretation of it.

I haven't explained this well because I am on a phone, not you come across to me as deranged. I'm sorry, that's my.observation and opinion and not a personal attack.

You have a acquired a nice way of insulting someone without being direct, and yet can convey your thoughts in circles and still claim it is not a personal attack. I'm impressed. I assume your method of degradation is above reproach. Can you teach me how to be so deceitfully candid?
While you tell me of my supposed cruelty, scoffing at my repentance process by calling it a rehab story, putting me down for using scripture, can you in all honesty claim or even hint that your spirituality is better than mine, so much that others on this forum continue to follow your lead as if you position is honest and fact? Frankly, I don't think you know how to ask a civil question without adding slander, defamation and animosity. Be honest with yourself, can't you detect these things in your words. And then you expect a civil answer?
You and all your buddies on this forum who side with you and think you're so much more Christ-like than I can start your own clique.

Hasn't it been your goal from the start to get people to think that paying 10% of income is not correct? Have I not already shown that 119 reveals the right way, so why do you ask again? 119:4 says there's a law...119:5 reveals what the law is. How much more explicit can this be?

4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
5 Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe this law, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you.

From: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interest" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

interest: a right, share, or claim, esp in a business or property
interest: a legal share, right, or title, as in the ownership of property or in a business undertaking.
share, percentage, portion, part - assets belonging to or due to or contributed by an individual person or group; "he wanted his share in cash"

Interest annually according to definition may mean to us...our share or property. So God claims 10% of all we own, or our interest.

To say surplus properties tells us--that which is above or in excess of our properties...being surplus.

So I admit that it sounds like we pay tithing on that which is in excess, after expenses and our needs are met. At this point I claim no real explanation. I could be wrong. Why "interest" was changed to "income" has no answer from me.

However, in the bible we read that people paid 10% on everything owned or possessed.

I'll let someone else try to reconcile the two scriptures

But if people have a problem with paying tithes whatever the amount, try doing this when the time comes.

D&C 72:15
15 Thus it cometh out of the church, for according to the law every man that cometh up to Zion must lay all things before the bishop in Zion.

[AussieOi]

I am banging my head against the pillar.of the ferry.taking me home

facepalm

double facepalm

[AussieOi]

Haha
I'm broken ffreedondfighter

totally broken
I am the last person anyone here wants to take a leaf out of

short of abusing other people (aside from Obvious peanuts on anonymous on line.services) I'm a pretty vile sinner and the FIRST to say i. Need. Help.

thankfully, I have learned who can save me.

at the risk of getting drawn back into it, (because really its stupid now to discuss tithing in the OT again) can I ask you, am I saying Tithing on full income us wrong, or saying please show how that is justified by scripture, meaning something other than what 119 says?

I.don't get you.

and no, trust me, its not close to insulting or mocking you. You would know if I were to do that. Is start by saying something like "but that would be pearls and swine stuff, "And go from there, exploiting the mental state you are clearly in by retelling your touching but otherwise superflous (dare I say disturbing?) Moment reconciling with god by finding a solution from a stranger.

and then I would open up about how any casual reader can see your are hopelessly trying to convince yourself (Of.lord knows what is really going.on in your life), but I won't

Quite simply, your position is emotional, and not scripturally supported

[freedomforall]

Haha
I'm broken ffreedondfighter

totally broken
I am the last person anyone here wants to take a leaf out of

short of abusing other people (aside from Obvious peanuts on anonymous on line.services) I'm a pretty vile sinner and the FIRST to say i. Need. Help.

thankfully, I have learned who can save me.

at the risk of getting drawn back into it, (because really its stupid now to discuss tithing in the OT again) can I ask you, am I saying Tithing on full income us wrong, or saying please show how that is justified by scripture, meaning something other than what 119 says?

I.don't get you.This makes us even. I told you what 119:4 and 5 said and explained my point of view pertaining to it based on research I did. I even looked up some words in a dictionary and posted a part of their meaning. I even admitted that the paying of tithing on all property or surplus property seemed to create conflict because of what is written in the bible. I don't get you at all when you keep coming back with the same overused questions. What more do you want?

and no, trust me, its not close to insulting or mocking you. You would know if I were to do that. You've taken the words right out of my mouth, you can believe this much. Is start by saying something like "but that would be pearls and swine stuff, "And go from there, exploiting the mental state you are clearly in by retelling your touching but otherwise superfluous (dare I say disturbing?) Moment reconciling with god by finding a solution from a stranger.

and then I would open up about how any casual reader can see your are hopelessly trying to convince yourself (Of.lord knows what is really going.on in your life), but I won't.

Quite simply, your position is emotional, and not scripturally supported

Emotional you say? Since you have mocked and derided my repentance and scripture knowledge and made fun of me for your own benefit and have puffed yourself up...take heed to this:

Since I don't think apologies are in your nature, here is something I testify to you with all energy of my soul so that you will know that God and his word will not be mocked nor anyone trying to convey it, for his word is sharper than a two edged sword and will divide asunder those guilty of it:

Ether 12:26
26 ...The Lord spake...saying: Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Doctrine and Covenants 14:2
2 Behold, I am God; give heed to my word, which is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of both joints and marrow; therefore give heed unto my word.

[ajax]

ff, the first couple of pages go over all the OT stuff. We are not going to re-hash it on the same thread.

[AussieOi]

D and C 119 = tithing on surplus not net, not gross

who is mocking who ff?

[jbalm]

FF,

Had you been alive during the OT era, I am convinced that you would have lambasted those unfortunate souls around you for not lining up to sacrifice their children to Moloch.

Your soul is a dark one, as evidenced by your "testimony."

I've always been hesitant to call a person a wolf in sheeps clothing (other than referring to myself, in jest), and I always assumed it was anti-mormons that deserved such a moniker. But now it is clear that term clearly applies best to the wolf who talks like a sheep, dresses like a sheep, and then seeks out the weakest lambs and, using the trust that an only the innocent possesses, works to destroy that innocent soul. To what end, I can only speculate.

You are such a wolf. There is no question.

You, and people like you take the gospel of Christ, the most uplifting teachings ever given to man, and twist it into a club with which to beat people into submission. A greater perversion of the gospel there could not be.

Anyone with a testimony of Jesus Christ can see you for what you are. To those with a true testimony, you are little more than a caricature of all that is wrong with modern Christianity.

But those who are weak, or searching, or hurting, or mourning - people like that are the ones hurt by those like you. And I mourn for them. It is they who are driven away from the church, or deeper into despair, or worse, by your type of ego-driven rhetoric.

Your passive aggressive "apologies" ring hollow, as they are clearly nothing more than self-justification from an insincere heart (or a twisted mind), so please save everyone the insult of another.

The path to peace is found by lifting others up. I hope that such peace doesn't continue to elude you.

[buffalo_girl]

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Doctrine and Covenants 14:2
2 Behold, I am God; give heed to my word, which is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of both joints and marrow; therefore give heed unto my word.

I like those scriptures!

When I lived in the Siuslaw National Forest on the Oregon Coast I had opportunity to use a 'two-edged' axe to cut Douglas Fir rounds from the saw mill pond for my wood stove. Of course, they were rain and water soaked (everything is there) so starting a fire in the wood stove took extraordinary skills with kerosene, stick matches and the ability to slam the stove door shut before the explosion flamed-out into the room.

Anyway, the thing about a 'two-edged' axe is, it has an awful tendency when not directed absolutely correctly, to bounce off the wood being split and come right back at the person swinging it.

[freedomforall]

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Doctrine and Covenants 14:2
2 Behold, I am God; give heed to my word, which is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of both joints and marrow; therefore give heed unto my word.

I like those scriptures!

When I lived in the Siuslaw National Forest on the Oregon Coast I had opportunity to use a 'two-edged' axe to cut Douglas Fir rounds from the saw mill pond for my wood stove. Of course, they were rain and water soaked (everything is there) so starting a fire in the wood stove took extraordinary skills with kerosene, stick matches and the ability to slam the stove door shut before the explosion flamed-out into the room.

Anyway, the thing about a 'two-edged' axe is, it has an awful tendency when not directed absolutely correctly, to bounce off the wood being split and come right back at the person swinging it.

Okay

[Rob]

freedomfighter, you just got a smackdown from one of the nicest people on this forum. If I were you, I would take a deep breath before saying whatever it is I was about to say next. I would click Preview and read it over a few times. I would even let it age overnight. In short, I would do whatever is necessary to keep from demonstrating a bass-ackwards view of civility.

I'm happy for you for feeling that way, you are entitled to your opinion.

/:)

[Rob]

Can you teach me how to be so deceitfully candid?

Just tell him you're happy for him for feeling that way.

[creator]

For some reason these images come to mind when I read this thread B-)

[freedomforall]

FF,

Had you been alive during the OT era, I am convinced that you would have lambasted those unfortunate souls around you for not lining up to sacrifice their children to Moloch.

Your soul is a dark one, as evidenced by your "testimony."

I've always been hesitant to call a person a wolf in sheeps clothing (other than referring to myself, in jest), and I always assumed it was anti-mormons that deserved such a moniker. But now it is clear that term clearly applies best to the wolf who talks like a sheep, dresses like a sheep, and then seeks out the weakest lambs and, using the trust that an only the innocent possesses, works to destroy that innocent soul. To what end, I can only speculate.

You are such a wolf. There is no question.

You, and people like you take the gospel of Christ, the most uplifting teachings ever given to man, and twist it into a club with which to beat people into submission. A greater perversion of the gospel there could not be.

Anyone with a testimony of Jesus Christ can see you for what you are. To those with a true testimony, you are little more than a caricature of all that is wrong with modern Christianity.

But those who are weak, or searching, or hurting, or mourning - people like that are the ones hurt by those like you. And I mourn for them. It is they who are driven away from the church, or deeper into despair, or worse, by your type of ego-driven rhetoric.

Your passive aggressive "apologies" ring hollow, as they are clearly nothing more than self-justification from an insincere heart (or a twisted mind), so please save everyone the insult of another.

The path to peace is found by lifting others up. I hope that such peace doesn't continue to elude you.

Okay

[drjme]

For some reason these images come to mind when I read this thread B-)

=))
its so true!! I'm trying to work and then I read a post. I HAVE actually delayed a meeting due to someone on the internet being wrong! Ha!

[freedomforall]

=))
its so true!! I'm trying to work and then I read a post. I HAVE actually delayed a meeting due to someone on the internet being wrong! Ha!

So if someone is wrong, who is right? If everyone is wrong no one can be right. If everyone thinks they're right and someone is wrong then it changes all prospects of everybody being right. If some people are right and some people wrong then who is smart enough to separate and categorize the written wrong and right data? They might be wrong in their choices. Then we'd have to start all over, and this ain't right; it's just wrong, wouldn't it be? Right or wrong, I don't want to be wrong when I think I'm right, but I could be wrong not having enough substantial data proving I'm right...so the right thing to do is posting things I think are right, hoping I'm not wrong. This, however could be the wrong approach, but if I'm right I feel good, and if I'm wrong, the right thing to do is study more and not post wrong info.

Am I right or wrong in my supposition? I hope I am right and not wrong.

[drjme]

=))
its so true!! I'm trying to work and then I read a post. I HAVE actually delayed a meeting due to someone on the internet being wrong! Ha!

So if someone is wrong, who is right? If everyone is wrong no one can be right. If everyone thinks they're right and someone is wrong then it changes all prospects of everybody being right. If some people are right and some people wrong then who is smart enough to separate and categorize the written wrong and right data? They might be wrong in their choices. Then we'd have to start all over, and this ain't right; it's just wrong, wouldn't it be? Right or wrong, I don't want to be wrong when I think I'm right, but I could be wrong not having enough substantial data proving I'm right...so the right thing to do is posting things I think are right, hoping I'm not wrong. This, however could be the wrong approach, but if I'm right I feel good, and if I'm wrong, the right thing to do is study more and not post wrong info.

Am I right or wrong in my supposition? I hope I am right and not wrong.

as far as you understand it right now, you are right (between yourself and the Lord), but don't be afraid to be wrong as to some point in the future. an open mind is integral to receiving more.

[freedomforall]

=))
its so true!! I'm trying to work and then I read a post. I HAVE actually delayed a meeting due to someone on the internet being wrong! Ha!

So if someone is wrong, who is right? If everyone is wrong no one can be right. If everyone thinks they're right and someone is wrong then it changes all prospects of everybody being right. If some people are right and some people wrong then who is smart enough to separate and categorize the written wrong and right data? They might be wrong in their choices. Then we'd have to start all over, and this ain't right; it's just wrong, wouldn't it be? Right or wrong, I don't want to be wrong when I think I'm right, but I could be wrong not having enough substantial data proving I'm right...so the right thing to do is posting things I think are right, hoping I'm not wrong. This, however could be the wrong approach, but if I'm right I feel good, and if I'm wrong, the right thing to do is study more and not post wrong info.

Am I right or wrong in my supposition? I hope I am right and not wrong.

as far as you understand it right now, you are right (between yourself and the Lord), but don't be afraid to be wrong as to some point in the future. an open mind is integral to receiving more.

You're right.

[A Random Phrase]

So if someone is wrong, who is right? If everyone is wrong no one can be right. If everyone thinks they're right and someone is wrong then it changes all prospects of everybody being right. If some people are right and some people wrong then who is smart enough to separate and categorize the written wrong and right data? They might be wrong in their choices. Then we'd have to start all over, and this ain't right; it's just wrong, wouldn't it be? Right or wrong, I don't want to be wrong when I think I'm right, but I could be wrong not having enough substantial data proving I'm right...so the right thing to do is posting things I think are right, hoping I'm not wrong. This, however could be the wrong approach, but if I'm right I feel good, and if I'm wrong, the right thing to do is study more and not post wrong info.

Am I right or wrong in my supposition? I hope I am right and not wrong.

)

:ymhug: This is why I like you. You not only think deeply, you think sideways and backways and frontways and upways and inter-dimensional-ways.

[AussieOi]

Be careful with any replies from DrJme from last night.
He may have been of unsound mind at 6-all.
His Kiwi team almost had a close one against the Kangaroos in the Anzac Test last night. Almost.

insert stupid smilie