Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

[365]

Read this post on Friday night and opened to my bookmarked page in Helaman 8 this morning to read,
1 And now it came to pass that when Nephi had said these words, behold, there were men who were judges, who also belonged to the secret band of Gadianton, and they were angry, and they cried out against him, saying unto the people: Why do ye not seize upon this man and bring him forth, that he may be condemned according to the crime which he has done?
2 Why seest thou this man, and hearest him revile against this people and against our law?
3 For behold, Nephi had spoken unto them concerning the corruptness of their law; yea, many things did Nephi speak which cannot be written; and nothing did he speak which was contrary to the commandments of God.
4 And those judges were angry with him because he spake plainly unto them concerning their secret works of darkness; nevertheless, they durst not lay their own hands upon him, for they feared the people lest they should cry out against them.
http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/hel/8.1,2,3,4?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Naturally we wouldn't expect everything to happen the same. A secret combination exists to gain power and wealth, and murders to acquire it. Or day they already seem to have those things so while we don't have anyone clamoring for physical retaliation ( preaching the truth is no longer threatening in our secular world) we do have people telling this SP, that like Nephi of old he crossed a line in "reveiling against the people and the law".

In my opinion,nothing he said was contrary to Gods commandments. It seems were destined to go down the same but different path.

[TZONE]

I shared it with someone, and they said in their local institute they were told that "this would be the last time the pendulum swings" but didn't reference the maxwell? talk. That means this talk which referenced the pendulum needing to be pushed back by maxwell? will be the final time until the ushering in of Zion. That is neat if its true.

[Befuddled]

I wish more of the LDS leaders including the prophet would speak up. Abinadi comes to mind!

[tmac]

I was very surprised today to have our bishop (who I don't normally consider to be very "awake" or even on the same page politically -- especially where the rubber meets the road, including on liberty and local political issues), who wasn't listed to speak on the program, take an extra five minutes, right at the outset, before the other talks, and quoted from President De Visser's talk.

It was a pleasant sort of surprise.

Now, what I would like to see is some of the GAs quote the talk at the upcoming GC -- and why not?

[lundbaek]

Thank you, Tmac, for that report. I would not expect the general authorities touch that talk in a favourable way with a 10 foot pole out of concern for retribution from the LDGs in control of our government. The talk was discussed in our high priest group meeting today and a few asked for a copy of the talk. My guess is that it will have to circulate mostly by word of mouth.

[BroJones]

Welcome to the forum, 365.
I expect many "guests" are viewing this thread; welcome to you also.

I was very surprised today to have our bishop (who I don't normally consider to be very "awake" or even on the same page politically -- especially where the rubber meets the road, including on liberty and local political issues), who wasn't listed to speak on the program, take an extra five minutes, right at the outset, before the other talks, and quoted from President De Visser's talk.

It was a pleasant sort of surprise.

Now, what I would like to see is some of the GAs quote the talk at the upcoming GC -- and why not?

Thanks for this note, tmac. Encouraging!
I've sent out the talk via email to many also... with favorable reviews in return.
Steven Jones

[AussieOi]

Yes, welcome all cough, guests

I'm.waiting for one in particular to say "I thought mitt was the one but since I've been here I've learnt about the left.right paradigm"

Then, he'll be really powerful!

Can someone link to some "Romney.just another LDG threads for.this thread?

Make it easier for.him. I mean the poor guy is probably on stress leave throwing up, no doubt he's been here or is reading.

Stay strong brother, just think a little deeper and you're there!

[tmac]

Another experience with the President De Visser talk:

I have three living siblings. Only one of them is active in the Church. The other two are inactive, and all three are pretty caught-up in "the world," and act fairly oblivious in many ways to where things really stand in the world today, both temporally, politically, economically, and spiritually.

I sent a copy of the talk to all of them. And they all seemed to take it pretty seriously. One of my sisters, who is completely inactive in the church, sent a hard copy to my dad (he doesn't have e-mail so I didn't send it to him), and told him that it all rang true to her, and it had her concerned to the point of that she was having trouble sleeping at night, as she had experienced something of an awakening and seriously considered where things really stand in the world.

When I discussed it with my dad, who I don't really consider to be particularly awake politically, and especially spiritually, his reaction was that President De Visser hadn't said anything that he didn't already believe, so according to him, he didn't find any of it to be particularly earth-shaking, but then he added the caveat that President De Visser was speaking only to his own stake, and my dad didn't think that anyone outside that stake should really attempt to read too much into it, or assume that it applied to them -- which I found to be more than a little interesting -- i.e., all these things are going on in the world we all live in, but you should really only pay attention to what your own stake president tells your own stake. No doubt that will be a major theme from Brethrenites within the Church-- that the talk has no application beyond President De Visser's own stewardship -- in other words universal truth ends at the stake boundaries.

[lundbaek]

I view this talk as giving a gentle nudge to all who read it regardless of how awake they are. If nothing else, it is an ice breaker for broaching the subject of our "awful situation" and a lead into discussion of Moroni's well known and Nephi's little known warnings of secret combinations. I am sorry that members of our stake have to get this nudge from each other instead of from our own stake presidency.

[jeanpierre]

I have been noticing something interesting about the various reactions to this stake conference address. And understand, this is just my observation mostly in my stake. Generally speaking, Church members holding leadership positions in wards and stakes seem to be acting as if this is inconsequential, almost like it didn't happen, or like they are waiting for direction on what to say about it if amything, while members with less visible or higher level callings are generally more interested in it.

[buffalo_girl]

Generally speaking, Church members holding leadership positions in wards and stakes seem to be acting as if this is inconsequential, almost like it didn't happen, or like they are waiting for direction on what to say about it if anything, while members with less visible or higher level callings are generally more interested in it.

This comment combined with that of tmac's father strikes a chord with me, too.

My husband & I have been Home & Visiting Teaching a Sister in the Ward who was inactive for many years until two years ago when her husband of 30 some years had a long hospitalization and eventually died. When the husband was first taken ill, my husband gave this Sister's husband a blessing with the help of one of the bishopric. It was a positive and guardedly hopeful blessing.

We came to discover over the long weeks and several months of his illness, that this good Sister had called in other Ward and even Stake Priesthood bearers with increasingly higher positions in the church, to give her non-member husband additional blessings. This good man eventually succumbed to a stubborn chronic condition. Although not LDS, he had always been very gracious to us when we visited in their home. We considered him a friend.

The good thing about all this is that the Sister is now very active, has gone to the temple, done her own work and been sealed. During Sacrament Meeting, she sits with those who are prominent in Ward leadership.

Two weeks ago, I felt prompted to call this woman on Saturday evening. She had returned from a vacation trip to Southern California and came back with a relapse of a bronchial virus. I suggested she ask my husband to give her a blessing. She said she planned to be at church the next morning, so she could get a blessing then. Just before church she came to the row where we sit and announced that she had asked two men from the High Priest's Quorum to give her the blessing telling my husband which one would anoint and which pronounce the blessing. She invited my husband to join the 'circle' and lay his hands on her head while the others gave her the blessing.

A curious trend is suggested in the observations made above and in our own experience here in small town ND.

Is "RANK" in Church government becoming an issue - dare I say - of Pride?

Was there a recent article in the Ensign defining "Office" of the Priesthood? I seem to recall there was, but can't find it.

[samizdat]

Yes, welcome all cough, guests

I'm.waiting for one in particular to say "I thought mitt was the one but since I've been here I've learnt about the left.right paradigm"

Then, he'll be really powerful!

Can someone link to some "Romney.just another LDG threads for.this thread?

Make it easier for.him. I mean the poor guy is probably on stress leave throwing up, no doubt he's been here or is reading.

Stay strong brother, just think a little deeper and you're there!

Does it count when I say that I thought Mitt was the one back in 2008, but a series of events including entering this forum have caused me to wake up to the fact that Mitt was a bad guy and would have been disasterous for the Church had he been elected...

Because that was what I thought. I voted for Romney in 2008 in the primary but in 2010 and 2011 I saw all the crap that Romney did, and also saw the crap behind the government story of 9 11. Shortly after that I found this forum.

[samizdat]

Generally speaking, Church members holding leadership positions in wards and stakes seem to be acting as if this is inconsequential, almost like it didn't happen, or like they are waiting for direction on what to say about it if anything, while members with less visible or higher level callings are generally more interested in it.

This comment combined with that of tmac's father strikes a chord with me, too.


Is "RANK" in Church government becoming an issue - dare I say - of Pride?

Was there a recent article in the Ensign defining "Office" of the Priesthood? I seem to recall there was, but can't find it.

I believe it was this one: http://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/09/the-g ... m?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The quote that stands out is that Priesthood is not a status symbol, but an opprotunity for service. The address was given by Elder Ballard of the Twelve.

As for a few people here in Mexico, there have been a few people in leadership positions that have boasted of their service, or a returned missionary that boasts of having been assistant to the president when another missionary was only district leader or even senior companion. Those that boast so, even with the callings that they have, you cannot feel their authority behind the office of stake president or bishop. Those that serve humbly can be seen with the authority that they have even as a president of elders quorum...

[TZONE]

Great talk. From that talk he also mentioned.

“Service is not something we endure on this earth so we can earn the right to live in the celestial kingdom. Service is the very fiber of which an exalted life in the celestial kingdom is made.

“Knowing that service is what gives our Father in Heaven fulfillment, and knowing that we want to be where He is and as He is, why must we be commanded to serve one another? … Service is what Godhood is all about.” (Ensign, Nov. 1982, p. 93.)

I think this applies to this talk as well. The whole condemning another when you have your own problems to deal with. When you serve you serve in a humble capacity as you mentioned. Supposed to anyways. O:-)

[buffalo_girl]

Thank you, samizdat!

Doctrine & Covenants Lesson 8 for Gospel Doctrine class is on the restoration of the Priesthood. I have been feeling impressed to better understand the principle of Authority as it relates to "Office".

Was that address republished more recently? The following is exactly the quote I was thinking about.

Joseph F. Smith: “There is no office growing out of this Priesthood that is or can be greater than the Priesthood itself. It is from the Priesthood that the office derives its authority and power. No office gives authority to the Priesthood. No office adds to the power of the Priesthood.”

[singyourwayhome]

I am aware of a great many Church members who are definitely not wicked as I understand the word "wicked", but who cannot cope with what the Lord and His prophets and apostles have told us about the US Constitution and the attacks against it and our freedoms. Not only have they ignored the admonitions in their scriptures and from their prophets and apostles to study, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution, but they have also largely ignored the warnings about secret combinations among them striving to gain control over their government and steal their wealth. But that alone does not qualify anyone for the "wicked" label. In spite of the hellfire and brimstone threats I have heard and read pertaining to members who neglect those responsibilities, I don't envision them shoveling coal down in the eternal boiler room for that neglect alone. But then as I reread this: http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/images/fp_1941.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I have to wonder.

How exactly would you define 'wicked'?

My understanding of the definition has been changing.

Mosiah 3:19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

Enemy to God = wicked, no?

D&C 84:50 And by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin, because they come not unto me.[/b]

51 For whoso cometh not unto me is under the bondage of sin.

52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.

53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.

So wickedness is defined here by the Lord as an unwillingness or inability to hear and follow the Lord's voice, whether found in scriptures, words of Church leaders, or -especially- through the Holy Ghost, whose job is to testify of truth.

D&C84: 54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

Although we have the necessary ordinances of the Gospel, we can be just as prone to ignoring the Lord's voice. And anyone else, regardless of religion or other beliefs, can be acquainted with the Lord's voice.

[elogan]

Those on this post who have protested the reliablility of this talk do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Like the Jews who refused to believe that Jesus was the Savior they had waited centuries for, you are in complete ignorance of the words spoken by the prophets in every generation. We have been taught from the very beginning that these days are coming. Now that they are here, you deny the witness and warnings that are offered at this time to protect you.

To argue that the Church would not or should not mix politics and gospel, plainly, you have not listened to the words of the prophet, Ezra T. Benson, who urged us emphatically to do whatever possible to preserve the U.S. Constitution and fight against the wicked ways of the devil with all our might and soul (conservatism).

It does not matter if the Stake President said these words in a talk or not. Every part that is presented as being of his talk is true. Every aspect is quoted from scripture and prophets and has been written for our day. All around us we witness the signs and warnings that were prophesied in the Bible and in the Book of Mormon that we would experience prior to His coming. You appear to be ignorant of the definition of Socialism and the fact that it robs individuals of freedoms by taking away their opportunity to make choices for themselves and causes them to become increasingly reliant on the government, thereby giving that same government increasing control over their lives--the very thing that began the war in Heaven. Open up your eyes and become aware of that awful situation we find ourselves in.

When you consider the laws that have passed in the past 4 years, our freedoms have, month by month, day by day, been stripped away. The government has taken control of our schools with "No Child Left Behind" by offering financial rewards to districts who consent to let federal leaders determine what students should learn--verified by state testing. We are stripped of dignity and morale by TSA when we try to board an airplane. The president continues to pass through laws without consent of Congress- taking power unto himself and ignoring Constitutional constraints and the voice of the people. Natural disasters abound and are becoming incrementally more abundant. What more evidence do you need? You are like the people described under the leadership of Moses who refused to look at the snake on a stick. Take your heads out of the proverbial sand and pay attention. Research the scriptures and learn of the signs and warnings. Study the governments in the Book of Mormon that abounded with secret combinations and were referred to as being operated by the Gadianton robbers, ultimately leading to the demise of those societies. Observe in your studies, the parallels of what those governments did then-- to what ours is doing today. Remember that this America is the promised land and the land that was founded by inspired men who put liberty first- a necessary ingredient for a social climate that would support the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Christ will not come back to a land that is not Free. He will not be subjected to tyranny and corruption. He has warned that he will first expose and destroy all those who seek for riches and power for their own benefit--worshipping an idol of gold and being persuaded by the cunning enticings of the devil who attempts to convince men that the government does a better job in making their decisions than those men can make for themselves. That is, free agency. Heed the warnings, my brothers and sisters who turn your heads from the truth. Wake up, before it is too late.

[rickytheory]

This is bitter sweet. The truth will set you free, and the bearing of truth will bring great persecution. I just wanted to post a few quotes some of which are being fulfilled right now, and some are clearly soon to follow.

We may expect to see the righteousness of the Saints and the progress of the kingdom of God continue unabated, but it will not be without opposition. The Council of the Twelve proclaimed in 1845: “As this work progresses in its onward course, and becomes more and more an object of political and religious interest … no king, ruler, or subject, no community or individual, will stand neutral. All will … be influenced by one spirit or the other; and will take sides either for or against the kingdom of God.” (James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 5 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965–70, 1:257.) “May the Kingdom of God Go Forth” EZRA TAFT BENSON

"Because followers of Jesus Christ are commanded to be leaven, we must seek tolerance from those who hate us for note being of the world. As part of this, we will sometimes need to challenge laws that would impair our freedom to practice our faith, doing so in reliance on our constitutional rights to the free exercise of religion. The big concern is "the ability of people of all faiths to work out their relationship with God and one another without the government looking over their shoulder." That is why we need understanding and support when we must contend for religious freedom...The Bible teaches that one of the functions of a prophet is to be a "watchman" to warn Israel. In revelation the Lord added this counsel for modern Zion: "Set... a watchman upon the tower," who will "[see] the enemy while he [is] yet afar off" and give warning to save the vineyard "from the hands of the destroyer. I speak as one of those watchmen." Elder Dallin H. Oaks "Balancing Truth & Tolerance" Ensign February 2013


"To fulfill my promise to you I will tell you what your father (Brigham young) said to me in company with brother Heber C. Kimball in City Creek Canyon in the year 1861. In the latter part of July brother Brigham and Heber came into my house and were talking on the war of races. Your father said at the time 'they are giving us a rest but it will not be long'. Turning to me he asked 'Sister Amanda did you ever wish you had been with the saints in their driving from Nauvoo?'" "No sir", and they both looked surprised and said, I was the first of the English saints they had ever heard say so, and they asked why? I said that I believe with all my heart that to live a good saint, it will require as great courage as it did in the driving from Nauvoo before we get through. Then Brigham Young said 'Yes and more, for the trials of the saints will be harder to bare'. He further said, when our brethren the quorum of the twelve or the twelve apostles should be called to the courts of Washington to give an account of the position of the latter-day saints, then look out, for the world will be in commotion and the Lord will have something to work upon. The Lord will hear the prayers of his children it will be after this when our savior and others will make the appearance on the earth among the latter-day saints." (Journal of Amand Wilcox March 11, 1904 this text was transcribed from an audio lecture given by Hyrum Andrus)

"The time will come when the government will stop the saints from holding meetings. When this is done the Lord will pour out his judgments." Life of Heber C. Kimball,. Page 442

"...you will have all the persecution you want and more too, and all the opportunity to show your integrity to God and truth that you could desire." Life of Heber C. Kimball,. Page 451

[TZONE]

for the trials of the saints will be harder to bare'. He further said, when our brethren the quorum of the twelve or the twelve apostles should be called to the courts of Washington to give an account of the position of the latter-day saints, then look out, for the world will be in commotion and the Lord will have something to work upon.

"...you will have all the persecution you want and more too, and all the opportunity to show your integrity to God and truth that you could desire." Life of Heber C. Kimball,. Page 451

I wonder how we can have more than the pioneers. They had quite a bit. It seems the first quote will cause quite the disturbance among the saints and the world. Wonder why they will be invited and what they will say (Repent or be destroyed).

JD, B YOUNG 10:250

Do you know that it is the eleventh hour of the reign of Satan on the earth? Jesus is coming to reign, and all you who fear and tremble because of your enemies, cease to fear them, and learn to fear to offend God, fear to transgress his laws, fear to do any evil to your brother, or to any being upon the earth, and do not fear Satan and his power, nor those who have only power to slay the body, for God will preserve his people.

The coming events are compared to Joseph in Egypt . It may look like they will overcome the saints (joseph) and many saints will flee to the other side but than in due time all will come unto the saints for freedom and refuge (no food, to not kill there own brother from the civil unrest) right when it looks like they will be overcome. Perhaps the plagues will do that.

[A Random Phrase]

Good post, elogan, but it would have been easier to read if you had broken it down into several paragraphs (like 6). Just a suggestion. Thanks for posting.

[MsEva]

Those on this post who have protested the reliablility of this talk do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Like the Jews who refused to believe that Jesus was the Savior they had waited centuries for, you are in complete ignorance of the words spoken by the prophets in every generation. We have been taught from the very beginning that these days are coming. Now that they are here, you deny the witness and warnings that offered at this time to protect you. To argue that the Church would not or should not mix politics and gospel, plainly, you have not listened to the words of the prophet, Ezra T. Bensen, who urged us emphatically to do whatever possible to preserve the U.S. Constitution and fight against the wicked ways of the devil with all our might and soul (conservatism). It does not matter if the Stake President said these words in a talk or not. Every part that is presented as being of his talk is true. Every aspect is quoted from scripture and prophets and has been written for our day. All around us we witness the signs and warnings that were prophesied in the Bible and in the Book of Mormon that we would experience prior to His coming. You appear to be ignorant of the definition of Socialism and the fact that it robs individuals of freedoms by taking away their opportunity to make choices for themselves and causes them to become increasingly reliant on the government, thereby giving that same government increasing control over their lives--the very thing that began the war in Heaven. Open up your eyes and become aware of that awful situation we find ourselves in. When you consider the laws that have passed in the past 4 years, our freedoms have, month by month, day by day, been stripped away. The government has taken control of our schools with "No Child Left Behind" by offering financial rewards to districts who consent to let federal leaders determine what students should learn--verified by state testing. We are stripped of dignity and morale by TSA when we try to board an airplane. The president continues to pass through laws without consent of Congress- taking power unto himself and ignoring Constitutional constraints and the voice of the people. Natural disasters abound and are becoming incrementally more abundant. What more evidence do you need? You are like the people described in the Book of Helaman who refused to look at the snake on a stick. Take your heads out of the proverbial sand and pay attention. Research the scriptures and learn of the signs and warnings. Study the governments in the Book of Mormon that abounded with secret combinations and were referred to as being operated by the Gadianton robbers, ultimately leading to the demise of those societies. Observe in your studies, the parallels of what those governments did then-- to what ours is doing today. Remember that this America is the promised land and the land that was founded by inspired men who put liberty first- a necessary ingredient for a social climate that would support the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Christ will not come back to a land that is not Free. He will not be subjected to tyranny and corruption. He has warned that he will first expose and destroy all those who seek for riches and power for their own benefit--worshipping an idol of gold and being persusaded by the cunning enticings of the devil who attempts to convice men that the government does a better job in making their decisions than those men can make for themselves. That is, free agency. Heed the warnings, my brothers and sisters who turn your heads from the truth. Wake up, before it is too late.

Welcome and I agree with what you said! +1 :ymapplause:

[elogan]

Thank you. I edited it and broke it up a little bit to make it easier to follow. Again, thanks for the positive comments and the welcome!

[A Random Phrase]

It looks much better. I'm glad I did not offend you with my suggestion. It was such a good post, and I thought more people would read it if it was made easier to read.

[buffalo_girl]

We had our Stake Conference this past weekend. The Sunday session was broadcast from Salt Lake City with Elder Oaks presiding.

The big news for us was that our Stake has grown so much from the influx of Bakken Oil Field workers & families that the Ward buildings could not hold everyone for the first broadcast so an additional replay of it had to be held later in the day.

The main theme was, "Stay away from the edge!"

[uglypitbull]

:ymapplause: elogan :ymapplause: