Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

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TZONE
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by TZONE »

Well that is a trial I have not thought of! I like it that explanation greatly.

Indy
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by Indy »

Davidg wrote:Can anyone verify the authenticity of this transcript? Its rather unique given that it mentions a lot of government related events--something that the church usually avoids in order to keep from bringing to bear any negative reaction from powerful forces in government which sometimes leads to governments interfering with the mission of the church.
I can not verify if it is true, but there is an article in the SL Tribune: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55876 ... r.html.csp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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sonofliberty
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by sonofliberty »

Reco wrote:Wow, this guy has some guts! I understand that he probably means well, and that his message is to be prepared for the second coming of the Savior, but I think some of his comments are extreme, political, and not at all appropriate to be said over the pulpit at stake conference. The Church has never, or will ever endorse a political party or candidate. This man, however, in so many words condones Pres. Obama, which by default promotes the opposite party, if not the opposite candidate (Romney). You might ask yourself, "Why do I say this?" Well, let's examine some of the comments made in his talk. "The UN Ambassador was instructed by the White House to cover up what happened in Libya, attempting to minimize the death of four Americans who were murdered." What proof does he have of this? What is his source? If it is the media, God help the man. Even if this statement is true he is directly attacking the white house, which is the same thing as attacking Pres. Obama. Next he says, "In 2012, the voice of the people spoke loudly and clearly as it chose:
Socialism over capitalism, Entities over free enterprise, Redistribution and regulation over self reliance. He might as well have said, "I am disgruntled over the fact that Pres. Obama was re-elected and I hate everything he stands for politically." It is the exact same thing, just using different words.

Now, I may or may not agree with what goes on in the government. I may or may not like Pres. Obama, but that does not give me the right or any other church leader to stand up and press his personal political views to a church congregation!

The other thing I have a problem with is this quote: "I believe many within the sound of my voice will be part of, and witnesses to, ALL (did you catch that, he said ALL) of the events that will transpire prior to the return of the Savior." I would have been fine with this statement except used the word ALL. I'm sorry, but here he is treading on really thin ice. He is leaning to predicting when the second coming will happen. Lets read for a minute what the Lord says on the subject. "I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes." (D&C 49:7).

My question is why did he not stick to the doctrine? He could have given a beautiful inspiring talk on how we should be prepared for the second coming without all the political junk he FELT he should throw in there!

I do not condone this man or think he is bad, evil, or anything of the sort. I am simply examining his own words and pointing out the facts. I think he needs evaluate what he is trying to accomplish by giving a talk like this!
He is not saying anything that has not been said by previous prophets.

Reco wrote:Now, I may or may not agree with what goes on in the government. I may or may not like Pres. Obama, but that does not give me the right or any other church leader to stand up and press his personal political views to a church congregation!


President Ezra Taft Benson, General Conference April 1972
"Suppose a leader of the Church were to tell you that you were supporting the wrong side of a particular issue. Some might immediately resist this leader and his counsel or ignore it, but I would suggest that you first apply the fourth great civic standard for the faithful Saints. That standard is to live for, to get, and then to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

Said Brigham Young: “I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. … Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.” (JD,‍ vol. 9, p. 150.)

A number of years ago, because of a statement that appeared to represent the policy of the Church, a faithful member feared he was supporting the wrong candidate for public office. Humbly he took the matter up with the Lord. Through the Spirit of the Lord he gained the conviction of the course he should follow, and he dropped his support of this particular candidate.

This good brother, by fervent prayer, got the answer that in time proved to be the right course.
"
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Others:
Joseph Smith

“I attended a second lecture on Socialism, by Mr. Finch; and after he got through, I made a few remarks… I said I did not believe the doctrine.” (History of the Church 6:33)

Heber J. Grant

“We again warn our people in America of the constantly increasing threat against our inspired Constitution and our free institutions set up under it. The same political tenets and philosophies that have brought war and terror in other parts of the world are at work amongst us in America…

“… Communism and all other similar isms bear no relationship whatever to the United Order. They are merely the clumsy counterfeits which Satan always devises of the gospel plan… Latter-day Saints cannot be true to their faith and lend aid, encouragement, or sympathy to any of these false philosophies. They will prove snares to their feet.” (Grant and McKay 273, 343)

David O. McKay

“Church members are at perfect liberty to act according to their own consciences in the matter of safeguarding our way of life. They are, of course, encouraged to honor the highest standards of the gospel and to work to preserve their own freedoms. They are free to participate in non-church meetings that are held to warn people of the threat of Communism or any other theory or principle that will deprive us of our free agency or individual liberties vouchsafed by the Constitution of the United States.” (”Statement Concerning the Position of the Church on Communism” 477)

First Presidency 1941 ( Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark, Jr., David O. McKay )

“We believe that our real threat comes from within and not from without, and it comes from that underlying spirit common to Nazism, Fascism, and Communism, namely, the spirit which would array class against class, which would set up a socialistic state of some sort, which would rob the people of the liberties which we possess under the Constitution…

“As we see it, there is no way in which we can, to use your own words, “preserve and perpetuate our freedom—freedom to govern ourselves, freedom of speech, and freedom to worship God according to our own light,” except we shall turn away from our present course and resume the normal course along which this great country traveled to its present high eminence of prosperity, of culture, of universal education, and of the peace and contentment which we enjoyed prior to the inauguration of the “New Deal”. (1932-3)

“These things are not matters of partisan politics with us. We care nothing as Church leaders about partisan politics as such, nor about the dominance of one party or the other. We grant to every man the right to vote as he wishes, and we would not control his vote even if we could. But we do reserve to ourselves the right to tell our people what we think is right regarding politics as affecting the fundamentals of our government system, to warn them of the dangers that lie under the present course, and to try to persuade them that their peace, their happiness, and their security do not lie along the path of the present trends of government.

“Truly, we do not believe that—again to quote your own words—we can “preserve and perpetuate our freedom—freedom to govern ourselves, freedom of speech, and freedom to worship God according to our own light” unless we turn squarely about and return to the old-time virtues, and re-enthrone our liberties and free institutions.” (A Letter to the Treasury from the LDS First Presidency in 1941 )

Ezra Taft Benson

“No true Latter-day Saint can be a Communist or a Socialist because Communist principles run counter to the revealed word of God and to the Constitution of this land which was established by men whom the God of Heaven raised up unto that very purpose [D&C 101:80].” (”A Four-Fold Hope” 11)

“President McKay has said a lot about our tragic trends towards socialism and communism and the responsibilities liberty-loving people have in defending and preserving our Constitution. (See Conference Report, Apr 1963, pp. 112-13.) Have we read these words from God’s mouthpiece and pondered on them?” (”Be Not Deceived” 1064; compare GFC 340)

“Let us not be deceived in the sifting days ahead. Let us rally together on principle behind the prophet as guided by the promptings of the Spirit. We should continue to speak out for freedom and against socialism and communism. We should continue to come to the aid of patriots, programs, and organizations that are trying to save our Constitution through every legal and moral means possible.” (”Be Not Deceived” 1065; compare GFC 342)

“We must be righteous and moral. We must live the gospel principles—all of them. We have no right to expect a higher degree of morality from those who represent us than what we ourselves are. In the final analysis, people generally get the kind of government they deserve. To live a higher law means we will not seek to receive what we have not earned by our own labor. It means we will remember that government owes us nothing. It means we will keep the laws of the land. It means we will look to God as our Lawgiver and the Source of our liberty.” (CHB 28-31)

“I fear for the future when I realize that for some thirty years our once-free institutions, political, economic, educational and social, have been drifting into the hands of those who favor the Welfare State, and who would “centralize all power in the hands of the political apparatus in Washington. This enhancement of political power at the expense of individual rights, so often disguised as ‘democracy’ or ‘freedom’ or ‘civil rights,’ is ’socialism,’ no matter what name tag it bears…

“I fear for the future when I see an affluent but complacent citizenry paying little or no attention to these and many other socialistic trends in America.

“Dr. V. Orval Watts, noted political economist, has described this socialist system which I fear-and I have but suggested a very few evidences. Here are his words: ‘Socialism… is the theory and practice of coercive collectivism. It is the evil fruit of greed for other men’s possessions and greed for control over other men’s labor.’” (Elder Ezra Taft Benson December 10 1963. A Race Against Time.)

“We have moved a long way – and are now moving further and more rapidly down the soul-destroying road of socialism. The evidence is clear – shockingly clear for all to see…

“Now we should all be opposed to Socialistic-Communism, for it is our mortal and spiritual enemy – the greatest evil in the world today. But the reason many liberals don’t want the American people to form study groups to really understand and than fight Socialistic-Communism is that once the American people get the facts they will begin to realize that much of what these liberals advocate is actually helping the enemy.

“The liberals hope you’ll believe them when they tell you how anti-Communist they are. But they become alarmed if you really inform yourself on the subject of Socialistic-Communism. For after you inform yourself you might begin to study the liberal voting record. And this study would show you how much the liberals are giving aid and comfort to the enemy and how much the liberals are actually leading America towards Socialism itself.

“For Communism is just another form of socialism, as is fascism. So now you can see the picture. These liberals want you to know how much they are doing for you – with your tax money of course. But they don’t want you to realize that the path they are pursuing is socialistic, and that socialism is the same as communism in its ultimate effect on our liberties. When you point this out they want to shut you up – they accuse you of maligning them, of casting aspersions, of being political. No matter whether they label their bottle as liberalism, progressivism, or social reform – I know the contents of the bottle is poison to this Republic and I’m going to call it poison.” (Ezra Taft Benson. Stand Up For Freedom. Assembly Hall at Temple Square, Feb 11, 1966. Given to The Utah Forum for the American Idea)


In response to your second point below:
The other thing I have a problem with is this quote: "I believe many within the sound of my voice will be part of, and witnesses to, ALL (did you catch that, he said ALL) of the events that will transpire prior to the return of the Savior." I would have been fine with this statement except used the word ALL. I'm sorry, but here he is treading on really thin ice. He is leaning to predicting when the second coming will happen.


Notice he is speaking of the events occurring and not that any will actually witness Christ coming. President Benson said almost the identical thing over 30 years ago in 1981 during a BYU address.

President Ezra Taft Benson April 19, 1981 BYU Address as President of the Quorum of the Tweleve Apostles:
"I want you to know that it is a great honor to be with you and feel of your spirit. You young men and women are choice spirits; you were reserved for this special time; you have a unique task to accomplish in this world, and our prayers are constantly with you that you will live up to the expectations the Lord has for you. We love you. We have confidence in you. We pray for you.

The people of every generation, I suppose, see the time in which they live as being exceptional. The truth of the matter is that you do live in a most exceptional time in the history of the world. You young people will see events transpire which were promised from the beginning of the world. Prophets of old have seen your days and rejoiced in them. And yet, you will face challenges and circumstances the severity of which has been unparalleled in generations past. For this you must be prepared.

Today, I speak to you about the times in which you live and about the quality of faith you will need to survive some of the difficulties yet to be experienced. I speak as one who loves you and has been given a responsibility, with my Brethren, “to testify and warn” about the impending crises facing mankind. I speak to you to the topic “Prepare yourselves for the great day of the Lord.”
...
do you realize we are living in the days of the fulfillment of these signs and wonders? You are among those who will see many of these prophecies fulfilled. Just as certain as was the destruction of the temple at Jerusalem and the scattering of the Jews, so shall these words of the Savior be certain to your generation.

We know not the day nor the hour of his coming, but of this you may feel assured: You stand close to the great day of the Lord! In his words of modern revelation, we say to you,

Seek the face of the Lord, always. [D&C 101:38]

You will live in the midst of economic, political, and spiritual instability. When you see these signs—unmistakable evidences that his coming is nigh—be not troubled, but, “stand . . . in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come” (D&C 87:8). Holy men and holy women stand in holy places, and these holy places include our temples, our chapels, our homes, and the stakes of Zion, which are, as the Lord declares, “for a defense, and for a refuge from the storm, and from wrath when it shall be poured out without mixture upon the whole earth” (D&C 115:6).

Heed the Lord’s counsel to the Saints of this dispensation:

Prepare yourselves for the great day of the Lord. [D&C 133:10]"
http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=92" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So in 1981, President Benson informs 18-22 year old BYU students that they are living in the days of the fulfillment of the prophecies of the coming of the Lord and that there are those present who will see many of those prophecies fulfilled. It certainly isn't far fetched for a stake president, when moved upon by the Holy Spirit, to state some 32 years later that there are those present (which includes infants and small children) who will see all of the prophecies fulfilled. Notice he does not mention at all that they will actually witness the Lord's return. We know that only the Father knows when that will occur.

Now, I am not saying that President De Visser is right or wrong. I do not know the man at all and I am not a member of his stake. He has no stewardship over me and his words were not meant for me. However, before one goes and attacks what he is saying and stating that it is inconsistent with the teachings of the Church, you must measure what he has said with what the scriptures and the prophets have said. Personally, I do not find what he has said inconsistent with them.

MsEva
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by MsEva »

Great post sonofliberty! :ymapplause:

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sonofliberty
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by sonofliberty »

MsEva wrote:Great post sonofliberty! :ymapplause:
Thanks MsEva! Just calling it how I see it.

deep water
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repent

Post by deep water »

A question from the scriptures asks? Who will survive the day of burning? The answer is "those who have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide". Lehi and Nephi are the first examples in the BoM of people taking the holy spirit for their guide. Those of us who abide the day will be led in the same manner. And When the earth is cleansed only those who have been cleansed by fire and the Holy Ghost will make it through. The very reason that we are falling is because we have gone off course and have chosen mammon over God. We were promised that we would be safe only if we were good. We have fallen so far we don't even know why we are falling. The teachings of the BoM have fallen on deft ears. We need to repent and turn from our wicked ways and choose to serve God rather than mammon. The first principal of the gospel is to know the character of God. That God can't lie nor can he change. The same plan that was before the world came into being is the still the same plan we should believe in today. We were told that we were to be "A strange and peculiar people", we were to be "in the world and not of it". Christ was asked where his kingdom was, he said "my kingdom is not of this world". Why else would Nephi say with his last words "I bid you an everlasting farewell, for these words shall condemn you at the last day" and be brought against you at the judgement bar of God. Those who have been redeemed will walk through the fire and shall not be burnt; neither shall the fire kindle upon them. We have our rich and poor, our sick and afflicted, our own sports teams, our own places to teach us how better to navigate mammon. We have our Dr.s, lawyers, CEO.s, thous who have excelled in the world. I cannot even think of one game that teaches the value of how to love our neighbor. They are all based upon I win you loose. The sad thing is we all loose this game.

freedomforall
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by freedomforall »

I know this post is late, but I've given thought to some of the posts and I think some people here just don't get it. If they think by hiding under the church attendance umbrella is going to save them...they're wrong. It makes no difference what party one is in; it makes no difference what side of any issue is taken, what matters is that we eschew socialism and recognize wrong doing in government. And we better be knowledgeable enough to know the difference. These questions help in that effort.

What came first, righteousness, knowing good from evil...or politics.
What kind of government was Adam and Eve under?
Why is this land called the Promised Land?
What was the purpose for God setting up a Constitution in our day?
Why is it wrong to talk about evil vs good in church, politically or not?
The Constitution and scriptures are for mankind and were given to us by God. Why?
We're told that the Constitution is akin to scripture...does anyone dispute this? Why?
The same law the Constitution provides is the same Constitutional law that the Savior will institute when he reigns...anyone dispute this? Why?

I thank Elogan for his comments. He is correct on all counts.

awar_e
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by awar_e »

This thread has been of particular interest to me.
It is both an awakening and a frightful situation to observe the responses that are being posted.
When L Tom Parry announced in a conference talk a few short years ago that Now is the time for EVERYONE to become aware of their awful situation, his words struck me like a lightening bolt. I knew the significance of his words and expected to see a great change of attitude come over the members.
As it seemed that his words were promptly forgotten, I finally began to recognize what my own awful situation is. Words and events which I had studied for over 30 years were coming to surface in a conference talk, which we are told that we are to treat like scripture.
My situation was that while I had been learning and trying to warn others all those years, it was now evident to me that very few cared or believed what I had learned.

Now we see a stake president warning the people using past topics from Prophets and he is being literally stoned by the use of printed words.
For some years I have seen evidence of the prophets being rather silent on affairs of govt. I have also observed some strange happenings at BYU, Deseret News, and KSL.
Satan has had a long time to exercise his powers that pertain to his role as god of this world. (Babylon) Can we somehow imagine that this is not the case?

We have been told for some years that the time would come when we must rely on the Holy Ghost for assistance in following the right path. Govt no longer allows truth to be broadcast forcefully. Prominent leaders are watched quite closely, while local leaders usually can slip under the radar.
I see the stake president being a VERY LATTER DAY voice of warning shortly before we see even more signs of the times. Meteor, asteroid, and now Cyprus banking disaster.
Anyone that is not shocked into a wakeful state of mind by the Cyprus situation is simply not awake.
I see things to be in a severe state of emergency for the nation to repent of allowing evil to take over govt and those who do not see the signs, may just as well form a line for their shots, and other govt mandated methods of slow extermination.
Dr Jones may be a few steps ahead of the rest of us.

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sonofliberty
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by sonofliberty »

Excellent posts Freedomfighter and Awar_e! I guess only he/she who has eyes to see and ears to hear are recognizing what is going on right now ... I am truly shocked how many otherwise good church members are completely oblivious to what is going on and do not even consider the freedom issue, upholding the Constitution and not supporting secret combinations as part of the Gospel.
Last edited by sonofliberty on March 19th, 2013, 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

awar_e
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by awar_e »

The words ring ever louder. Many are called but few are chosen. The Stake President in Sandy was obviously chosen.

freedomforall
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by freedomforall »

awar_e wrote:This thread has been of particular interest to me.
It is both an awakening and a frightful situation to observe the responses that are being posted.
When L Tom Parry announced in a conference talk a few short years ago that Now is the time for EVERYONE to become aware of their awful situation, his words struck me like a lightening bolt. I knew the significance of his words and expected to see a great change of attitude come over the members.
As it seemed that his words were promptly forgotten, I finally began to recognize what my own awful situation is. Words and events which I had studied for over 30 years were coming to surface in a conference talk, which we are told that we are to treat like scripture.
My situation was that while I had been learning and trying to warn others all those years, it was now evident to me that very few cared or believed what I had learned.

Now we see a stake president warning the people using past topics from Prophets and he is being literally stoned by the use of printed words.
For some years I have seen evidence of the prophets being rather silent on affairs of govt. I have also observed some strange happenings at BYU, Deseret News, and KSL.
Satan has had a long time to exercise his powers that pertain to his role as god of this world. (Babylon) Can we somehow imagine that this is not the case?

We have been told for some years that the time would come when we must rely on the Holy Ghost for assistance in following the right path. Govt no longer allows truth to be broadcast forcefully. Prominent leaders are watched quite closely, while local leaders usually can slip under the radar.
I see the stake president being a VERY LATTER DAY voice of warning shortly before we see even more signs of the times. Meteor, asteroid, and now Cyprus banking disaster.
Anyone that is not shocked into a wakeful state of mind by the Cyprus situation is simply not awake.
I see things to be in a severe state of emergency for the nation to repent of allowing evil to take over govt and those who do not see the signs, may just as well form a line for their shots, and other govt mandated methods of slow extermination.
Dr Jones may be a few steps ahead of the rest of us.
Knowing there are people in the church, a church that is supposed to be overshadowed by the Savior, don't understand what the gospel is all about makes my gut wrench. Why is it that people think they know more than God, and think that by choosing evil is somehow right? The gospel goes much deeper than just going to church on Sunday and taking the Sacrament. The Sacrament is for those who "are willing to" remember the Savior and keep all the commandments. But when decisions are made to justify evil at any degree, how can a person say they're doing what they claim to do while eating the bread and drinking the water? Keeping the commandments also includes doing things that will help preserve the constitution, or at least, knowing that God provided the liberty and freedom we were given so many years ago, and not choosing anything that will jeopardize it.

I'm not certain I'm fully prepared for what's coming, spiritually and physically but I think I grasp the reason and purpose for the need of them. If we vary from what God expects of us we can fall. He wants us to choose right in everything we do. It's not easy but necessary if we want to stand.

awar_e
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Re: repent

Post by awar_e »

deep water wrote:A question from the scriptures asks? Who will survive the day of burning? The answer is "those who have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide". Lehi and Nephi are the first examples in the BoM of people taking the holy spirit for their guide. Those of us who abide the day will be led in the same manner. And When the earth is cleansed only those who have been cleansed by fire and the Holy Ghost will make it through. The very reason that we are falling is because we have gone off course and have chosen mammon over God. We were promised that we would be safe only if we were good. We have fallen so far we don't even know why we are falling. The teachings of the BoM have fallen on deft ears. We need to repent and turn from our wicked ways and choose to serve God rather than mammon. The first principal of the gospel is to know the character of God. That God can't lie nor can he change. The same plan that was before the world came into being is the still the same plan we should believe in today. We were told that we were to be "A strange and peculiar people", we were to be "in the world and not of it". Christ was asked where his kingdom was, he said "my kingdom is not of this world". Why else would Nephi say with his last words "I bid you an everlasting farewell, for these words shall condemn you at the last day" and be brought against you at the judgement bar of God. Those who have been redeemed will walk through the fire and shall not be burnt; neither shall the fire kindle upon them. We have our rich and poor, our sick and afflicted, our own sports teams, our own places to teach us how better to navigate mammon. We have our Dr.s, lawyers, CEO.s, thous who have excelled in the world. I cannot even think of one game that teaches the value of how to love our neighbor. They are all based upon I win you loose. The sad thing is we all loose this game.
EXCELLENT POST

You can see the forest in spite of the trees.

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AussieOi
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by AussieOi »

This is how I will be responding when asked

In line with my personaI religious beliefs I disagree with homosexuals being afforded the same recognition as traditional families.

However I object to ANY law restricting how ANY couple or group of adults want their union to be recognised.

Hence I cannot object to their petition

Nor any other collective who wish to be afforded the same rights and recognition that gays do

I assume you likewise have no objection to polygamous unions, for example

freedomforall
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by freedomforall »

awar_e wrote:The words ring ever louder. Many are called but few are chosen. The Stake President in Sandy was obviously chosen.
Many are cold but few are frozen. :D

lundbaek
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by lundbaek »

Does anyone know of any repercussions from this talk since it was given and discussed in the MSM as well as on this and possibly other forums ?

I had the chance to talk with our stake president last evening during my TR interview about the concerns of myself and a few others in our stake over the general unawareness of members of our responsibilities to the Constitution and its preservation, etc. I told him that my activities include doing what I can toward preserving this nation for the next generation, and helping to prepare a people to restore the American government to its proper role of protecting our God-given and inalienable rights. I told him how I had wanted to participate in a Church program to make LDSs aware of their doctrinal mandate to study the principles of the Constitution and abide by them. I went on and told of our responsibility to learn what has been and is going on in the world as commanded in D&C 88:79. As he had once before, he told me that other issues were very time consuming, but that he is aware of the concerns I and a few others in the stake have expressed to him.

Lance
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by Lance »

-
Last edited by Lance on June 24th, 2015, 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

larsenb
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by larsenb »

So where did the complete talk go? Don't see it in the first post of thread author, or any other place.

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LDSguy
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by LDSguy »

larsenb wrote:So where did the complete talk go? Don't see it in the first post of thread author, or any other place.
You can read it in full here: http://bmwanlass.wordpress.com/2013/02/ ... ley-stake/

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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by creator »

larsenb wrote:So where did the complete talk go? Don't see it in the first post of thread author, or any other place.
Here you go: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27539" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lundbaek
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by lundbaek »

Thanks, Lan, for letting us know about the repeat of President DeVisser' talk in your Priesthood Leadership training session. Plagerism or whatever, I'm happy to learn that at least one more stake president thought enuf of the message to give it to at least some of the members in your stake. He could have given attribution to President DeVisser, but the important thing is that the message is going further. How was it received by those present ? I emailed the version as reported in the Trib to our stake president, but I've detected no sign that it meant much to him.

Lance
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by Lance »

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Last edited by Lance on June 24th, 2015, 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by freedomforall »

Lan wrote:
lundbaek wrote:Thanks, Lan, for letting us know about the repeat of President DeVisser' talk in your Priesthood Leadership training session. Plagerism or whatever, I'm happy to learn that at least one more stake president thought enuf of the message to give it to at least some of the members in your stake. He could have given attribution to President DeVisser, but the important thing is that the message is going further. How was it received by those present ? I emailed the version as reported in the Trib to our stake president, but I've detected no sign that it meant much to him.
Yes, that is a good way to look at it. It appeared to me that the talk in my stake was very well-received. Since that time, I have moved away so I can't speak to any lasting impact on that stake in Draper. I should mention that my stake president gave his "repeat" version of the talk BEFORE the Salt Lake Tribune article ran. People left the meeting surprised by how bold our stake president's message was. I, however, felt bad for the audience in attendance because I knew he wasn't presenting his own inspiration, even though it was presented that way. He could have easily prefaced his remarks by stating something like the following: "President DeVisser, in a neighboring stake, shared some timely and important counsel that I believe is equally applicable to this stake. Let me share the following with you . . ."
Could the Draper SP have gotten permission from the author to present it, and then simply failed to acknowledge the fact? I mean Stake Presidents attend regional meetings don't they?
Just wondering.

larsenb
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Posts: 10812
Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by larsenb »

LDSguy wrote:
larsenb wrote:So where did the complete talk go? Don't see it in the first post of thread author, or any other place.
You can read it in full here: http://bmwanlass.wordpress.com/2013/02/ ... ley-stake/

Thanks LDSguy and Brian. I'll copy and save it.

Kmart201
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by Kmart201 »

AussieOi wrote:This is how I will be responding when asked

In line with my personaI religious beliefs I disagree with homosexuals being afforded the same recognition as traditional families.

However I object to ANY law restricting how ANY couple or group of adults want their union to be recognised.

Hence I cannot object to their petition

Nor any other collective who wish to be afforded the same rights and recognition that gays do

I assume you likewise have no objection to polygamous unions, for example

I can totally sympathize with the way you feel. But, I think this thinking is the natural man, being afraid to disagree with the masses. A TEST A TEST A TEST is coming.
Just because something is politically correct and men create laws to protect it, does that mean God's laws are then void?

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by freedomforall »

I think this talk should be read again and again, thanks to "Believer". And I think there are some here that have not seen it at all. It is profound. So I carry it over to here for quick reference:

Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Stake Conference General Session Talk: 2/3/13
President Matthew Scott De Visser Sandy, Utah
My dear brothers and sisters, it has been a wonderful conference weekend. I have been inspired by those who have shared their stories and testimonies. I have been equally inspired by the music. I have learned that it is not an easy thing to plan a stake conference. Much fasting, prayer, and deliberation go into it and I have felt the spirit of the Lord guide me in selecting our speakers and topics. I express my appreciation to those who have participated. The spirit of the Lord has been with us in abundance, and I pray that it will continue to be with us as I now address you.

Another year has come and gone, but not just any year – it was the year 2012. A year about which much was speculated, predicted, and some would even argue prophesied. And while the most discussed prediction or prophecy – that of the Mayans concerning the end of the world – did not come to pass, I feel and believe that 2012 will still prove to be one of the more significant years in our life time.

Let’s take a moment and look back at a few things that happened in 2012:
- Gaza fired missiles on Jerusalem causing heightened unrest in the Middle East
- The Director of the CIA, a man considered to be of the highest moral integrity, resigned due to improprieties and adultery

- The UN Ambassador was instructed by the White House to cover up what happened in Libya, attempting to minimize the deaths of four Americans who were murdered
- There was an attempt to raise taxes during the worst economic times since the great depression

- Hurricane Sandy, called the “perfect storm” hit the east coast causing great devastation
- Iran became closer to a nuclear weapon
- The use of marijuana was legalized in Washington and Colorado
- Some states legalized same sex marriage

- 23 states began a petition to secede from the nation
- Russia strengthened its coalitions with North Korea and Iran
- Forces aligned to stop school prayer, but allowed the handing out of birth control
- The government used tax dollars to fund abortions

- Examples of violence, gambling, drug misuse, and infidelity were more prevalent than ever
- Hollywood promoted parenthood without marriage
- Education scores of our youth plummeted to their lowest levels ever
- And finally, we were brought to the edge of the fiscal cliff

In my opinion, the first 30 days of 2013 have proven to be the same. In fact, my head is spinning at all of the insanity and craziness that is happening in the world.
Now, I want to make it clear that it is not my intent today to be controversial, political, or even dire. My intent is to state the facts as I see them, as the Stake President, having been moved upon by the Holy Ghost. When I speak from this pulpit as the Stake President, the primary intent of my voice is one of love and compassion, but I also have an obligation to use my voice as a warning when it is necessary. Today is a day when I choose to use it primarily as a voice of warning hoping you will realize and understand that it is in love and compassion for you that I do.

Each of us has our agency and we are free to act for ourselves. We are agents unto ourselves and each of us is free to take what I say as he or she will. You may choose to disagree with me. You may even choose to ignore me, but I have been impressed by the spirit to say what I must say.

Never in my life have I witnessed a more stark difference between good and evil than I did in 2012. Never has there been a greater moral, economic, or political decline in society, than there was in 2012 and over the last few years. These climates combined, were as bad in 2012 as they have ever been in the history of the world. The current moral condition of our world and country reminds me of the condition described in Helaman, chapter 5, verse 2, and I quote:

“For their laws and their governments were established by the voice of the people, and they who chose evil were more numerous than they who chose good, therefore they were ripening with destruction, for the laws had become corrupted.” End quote.

In 2012 the voice of the people spoke loudly and clearly as it chose:
- Socialism over capitalism
- Entitlements over free enterprise
- Redistribution and regulation over self reliance
Unfortunate as it is, this should not come as a surprise to any of us who have spent the better part of our lives as members of this church. The scriptures and the prophets have warned us for hundreds of years, and have been trying to prepare us for this time. The scriptural and modern-day prophesies we have read and heard throughout our lives are no longer prophesies to us – they are now our living reality.

Let me take a moment and share with you a few of the scriptural and modern-day prophesies and quotes that I find interesting and revealing.
First, on November 9th, 2012 ( just a few months ago) the First Presidency issued the following statement: “We invite Americans everywhere, whatever their political persuasion, to pray for the President, for his administration and the new Congress as they lead us through difficult and turbulent times. May our national leaders reflect the best in wisdom and judgment as they fulfill the great trust afforded to them by the American people.”

The most glaring part of this statement, to me, is the acknowledgement from our prophet and the First Presidency that we are living in difficult and turbulent times.
Now, listen carefully to these two quotes. To me, these quotes are fascinating, and they reflect the ability of our leaders to see and predict the future.

In 1976 (this statement was made over 35 years ago) while serving as a President of the Seventy, Neal A. Maxwell said the following:
“I fear, that, as conditions worsen, many will react to the failures of too much government by calling for even more government. Then there will be more and more lifeboats launched, because fewer and fewer citizens know how to swim. Unlike some pendulums, political pendulums do not swing back automatically; they must be pushed. History is full of instances when people have waited in vain for pendulums to swing back”.

In 1966 (this statement was made over 45 years ago) while serving as an apostle, Howard W. Hunter said this:
“The government will take from the “haves” and give to the “have nots.” [When this happens] Both have lost their freedom. Those who “have,” lost their freedom to give voluntarily of their own free will and in the way they desire. Those who “have not”, lost their freedom because they did not earn what they received. They got “something for nothing,” and they will neither appreciate the gift nor the giver of the gift”.

Now I quote from 2 Timothy chapter 3, verses 1-4:
“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God”.

Sound familiar? It does to me, and as the Stake President, I not only see it happening throughout the world, but I also see it happening right here in our stake. These conditions described by Paul concerning the wickedness of the last days, are being realized right before my very eyes. As the Stake President, I see and hear all manner of sin – violence, crime, alcohol and drug abuse, and immorality of every kind. I believe there are not many things left for my eyes to see and my ears to hear. Evil is escalating at an alarming pace even here at home. Just as the Savior prophesied concerning the conditions in the world that would precede his Second Coming: “iniquity does abound, the love of men does wax cold” (JS-Matt. 1:30) and “all things are in commotion; and surely, men’s hearts do fail them, for fear has come upon all people” (D&C 88:91).

I now quote Elder Bednar in a talk he gave one day after the tragic events that occurred only 45 days ago in Connecticut. He said:
“We live in a world that grows increasingly confused and chaotic - ever more evil and dark. Nothing could have emphasized that truth more than the tragic events that occurred yesterday in Connecticut.” With his comments, Elder Bednar also quoted recent comments made by President Packer, who said: “The world is spiraling downward at an ever-quickening pace.” Now, pay close attention to this next sentence brothers and sisters – President Packer said: “I am sorry to tell you that it will not get better.” President Packer goes on to say: “I know of nothing in the history of the Church, or in the history of the world to compare with our present circumstances. Nothing happened in Sodom and Gomorrah which exceeds in wickedness and depravity that which surrounds us now. Words of profanity, vulgarity, and blasphemy are heard everywhere. Unspeakable wickedness and perversion were once hidden in dark places; now they are in the open, and even accorded legal protection. At Sodom and Gomorrah these things were localized. Now, they are spread across the world, and they are among us”.

Brothers and Sisters, as I said last year during Ward Conferences – “we are in the count down.” Again, I say to you, that the scriptural and modern-day prophesies we have read and heard all throughout our lives are no longer prophesies to us – they are now our living reality. If there was ever a time in the history of the world for a people to wake up, pay attention, and get it together – now is that time. This is a defining moment for us, and we cannot delay. We need to get our temporal and spiritual houses in order. It is a must. Difficult times are still ahead and we need to be prepared.

In my opinion, the last 5 years have put us on notice, and they should serve as a wake-up call in both temporal and spiritual matters.
All throughout my life I have been counseled by our church leaders to live within my means and get out of debt. In fact, there was no topic talked about more by President Hinckley, during his time as the Prophet, than living within our means and getting out of debt. As I look back on the last 5 years, it is no wonder to me why he did. We experienced the worst economic, political, and spiritual times in the history of our country, and even globally. The words of President Packer during his visit to our stake 4 years ago still ring loudly in my ears when he mentioned this topic and warned us, by saying:

“This time is different. We have not experienced this in the past. This time it is global, and it will be deeper and last longer than anything we have economically and spiritually experienced.”
Today, it is easy for us to reflect upon his words and know that he was right. Many of us would be better served today if we had taken his warning more seriously. For example, from 2008 to 2009 our stake experienced a 150% increase in welfare assistance to its own members. That assistance stayed about the same during 2010 and 2011. In 2012 we saw some improvement, and I am happy to report that we are now only 70% above our pre 2009 level of assistance. While there are some of us who could have done better, all in all, I commend you brothers and sisters. We are one of a few stakes in the entire church that remained a Fast Offering Giver rather than a Fast Offering Receiver during this time – meaning that we were able to meet the temporal needs of our own members and still have a surplus to pass on to the church to assist other stakes. I also want to commend you for following the counsel of your priesthood leader to prayerfully consider a more generous Fast Offering. It is overwhelming to me that during this temporal meltdown you have risen to the occasion and given more generously. I am very pleased to report that over the past 4 years our fast offering contributions have increased by 11%. This is amazing, especially since we now have 1,000 members less in our stake than we did in 2008. So, I thank you brothers and sisters. You are wonderful and I promise the Lord will continue to bless you as you continue to give generously.

Now, while temporal and economic conditions appear to be getting somewhat better, let us not kid ourselves about what is really going on. Any improvement is only temporary, and the conditions we have experienced over the last 5 years will eventually and certainly return, and even get worse. Let us not forget the last 5 years, and let us learn from it. Let us all finally follow the counsel of our prophets to live within our means and get out of debt. It is possible to get out of debt if we live within our means, but it is not if we don’t.

Now, not only is temporal preparedness vital for our mortal existence, but it also sets the stage for us to be spiritually prepared. The most important matter for us to consider right now and always is our spiritual preparedness.

Over the past 4 years, it has been a wonderful exercise for me to call upon the Lord for guidance and direction concerning this stake, and in particular the setting of stake goals. It has been an interesting evolution to witness. Let me share with you part of a statement we prepared for all of us this year (a copy of which can be obtained from your bishop):

“As the Stake Presidency discussed, pondered, and prayed about our stake goals for 2013, we were impressed by the feeling that goals should be a matter of focus and commitment at a personal level.
In conjunction with this direction, we encourage each individual member to set their own goal based on the following question:

What goal can I make that will bring me closer to the Savior?
Let me repeat:
We encourage each individual member to set their own goal based on the following question:
What goal can I make that will bring me closer to the Savior?

We trust that as you prayerfully consider and ponder this question, it will be clear to you what your goal should be. We also testify that your personal commitment and discipline to fulfill this goal will indeed bring you closer to the Savior and will give you spiritual strength to remain firm and steadfast in the gospel regardless of the circumstances.

We are impressed to share with you one goal you might consider, as you ponder the question: What goal can I make that will bring me closer to the Savior?
Spend time each day reading and studying the Book of Mormon.

Two others which are not in the statement but which I would like to also suggest are:
1) Don’t let a day go by in your life when you do not humbly and sincerely kneel before God to thank Him for your blessings and plead with Him to give you the spiritual strength to meet the challenges which are coming.

2) Perform a spiritual self examination. Examine every aspect of your life. Identify those things for which you need to repent and then do it. Simply put, focus on your own personal worthiness.
In the end, the only things that will matter will be our personal worthiness and our relationships, especially the one we have with the Savior.

Brothers and Sisters, President Packer was absolutely right when he said: “I am sorry to tell you that it will not get better.” As difficult as it may be to embrace, it is simply God’s plan. The moral, economic, and political conditions of the world will not, overall, get better. You and I were held back for this special time to prepare the earth for the return of the Savior. I believe many within the sound of my voice will be part of, and witnesses to, all of the events that will transpire prior to the return of the Savior. This will require each of us to be temporally and spiritually stronger than we are currently.

In closing let me share a quote from Heber C. Kimball:
“The time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to the extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint, from the face of an enemy to the people of God. Then, brothers and sisters, look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great sifting time, and many will fall; for I say unto you there is a test, a TEST, a TEST is coming, and who will be able to stand?

This church and each member of it has before it many close places through which it will have to pass before the work of God is crowned with victory. To meet the difficulties that are coming, it will be necessary for you to be temporally and spiritually prepared, and have a knowledge of the truth of this work for yourselves. The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess these things will fall.”

Brothers and sisters, the test has come. It is now upon us. No man or woman will be able to endure what is happening now, or what is ahead, if we are not temporally and spiritually prepared. If you are not, you will not stand.

I love you brothers and sisters. I testify to you that I speak the truth. I have a personal witness of the Savior and I know that He lives. He is the Son of Almighty God. He will return in glory and He will sustain us through the difficult times ahead if we do our part and are temporally and spiritually prepared. And, I say these things, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

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