Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

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singyourwayhome
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by singyourwayhome »

lundbaek wrote:I am aware of a great many Church members who are definitely not wicked as I understand the word "wicked", but who cannot cope with what the Lord and His prophets and apostles have told us about the US Constitution and the attacks against it and our freedoms. Not only have they ignored the admonitions in their scriptures and from their prophets and apostles to study, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution, but they have also largely ignored the warnings about secret combinations among them striving to gain control over their government and steal their wealth. But that alone does not qualify anyone for the "wicked" label. In spite of the hellfire and brimstone threats I have heard and read pertaining to members who neglect those responsibilities, I don't envision them shoveling coal down in the eternal boiler room for that neglect alone. But then as I reread this: http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/images/fp_1941.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I have to wonder.
How exactly would you define 'wicked'?

My understanding of the definition has been changing.
Mosiah 3:19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
Enemy to God = wicked, no?
D&C 84:50 And by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin, because they come not unto me.[/b]

51 For whoso cometh not unto me is under the bondage of sin.

52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.

53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.


So wickedness is defined here by the Lord as an unwillingness or inability to hear and follow the Lord's voice, whether found in scriptures, words of Church leaders, or -especially- through the Holy Ghost, whose job is to testify of truth.
D&C84: 54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—


Although we have the necessary ordinances of the Gospel, we can be just as prone to ignoring the Lord's voice. And anyone else, regardless of religion or other beliefs, can be acquainted with the Lord's voice.

elogan
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by elogan »

Those on this post who have protested the reliablility of this talk do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Like the Jews who refused to believe that Jesus was the Savior they had waited centuries for, you are in complete ignorance of the words spoken by the prophets in every generation. We have been taught from the very beginning that these days are coming. Now that they are here, you deny the witness and warnings that are offered at this time to protect you.

To argue that the Church would not or should not mix politics and gospel, plainly, you have not listened to the words of the prophet, Ezra T. Benson, who urged us emphatically to do whatever possible to preserve the U.S. Constitution and fight against the wicked ways of the devil with all our might and soul (conservatism).

It does not matter if the Stake President said these words in a talk or not. Every part that is presented as being of his talk is true. Every aspect is quoted from scripture and prophets and has been written for our day. All around us we witness the signs and warnings that were prophesied in the Bible and in the Book of Mormon that we would experience prior to His coming. You appear to be ignorant of the definition of Socialism and the fact that it robs individuals of freedoms by taking away their opportunity to make choices for themselves and causes them to become increasingly reliant on the government, thereby giving that same government increasing control over their lives--the very thing that began the war in Heaven. Open up your eyes and become aware of that awful situation we find ourselves in.

When you consider the laws that have passed in the past 4 years, our freedoms have, month by month, day by day, been stripped away. The government has taken control of our schools with "No Child Left Behind" by offering financial rewards to districts who consent to let federal leaders determine what students should learn--verified by state testing. We are stripped of dignity and morale by TSA when we try to board an airplane. The president continues to pass through laws without consent of Congress- taking power unto himself and ignoring Constitutional constraints and the voice of the people. Natural disasters abound and are becoming incrementally more abundant. What more evidence do you need? You are like the people described under the leadership of Moses who refused to look at the snake on a stick. Take your heads out of the proverbial sand and pay attention. Research the scriptures and learn of the signs and warnings. Study the governments in the Book of Mormon that abounded with secret combinations and were referred to as being operated by the Gadianton robbers, ultimately leading to the demise of those societies. Observe in your studies, the parallels of what those governments did then-- to what ours is doing today. Remember that this America is the promised land and the land that was founded by inspired men who put liberty first- a necessary ingredient for a social climate that would support the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Christ will not come back to a land that is not Free. He will not be subjected to tyranny and corruption. He has warned that he will first expose and destroy all those who seek for riches and power for their own benefit--worshipping an idol of gold and being persuaded by the cunning enticings of the devil who attempts to convince men that the government does a better job in making their decisions than those men can make for themselves. That is, free agency. Heed the warnings, my brothers and sisters who turn your heads from the truth. Wake up, before it is too late.
Last edited by elogan on March 2nd, 2013, 10:48 am, edited 4 times in total.

rickytheory
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by rickytheory »

This is bitter sweet. The truth will set you free, and the bearing of truth will bring great persecution. I just wanted to post a few quotes some of which are being fulfilled right now, and some are clearly soon to follow.
We may expect to see the righteousness of the Saints and the progress of the kingdom of God continue unabated, but it will not be without opposition. The Council of the Twelve proclaimed in 1845: “As this work progresses in its onward course, and becomes more and more an object of political and religious interest … no king, ruler, or subject, no community or individual, will stand neutral. All will … be influenced by one spirit or the other; and will take sides either for or against the kingdom of God.” (James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 5 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965–70, 1:257.) “May the Kingdom of God Go Forth” EZRA TAFT BENSON

"Because followers of Jesus Christ are commanded to be leaven, we must seek tolerance from those who hate us for note being of the world. As part of this, we will sometimes need to challenge laws that would impair our freedom to practice our faith, doing so in reliance on our constitutional rights to the free exercise of religion. The big concern is "the ability of people of all faiths to work out their relationship with God and one another without the government looking over their shoulder." That is why we need understanding and support when we must contend for religious freedom...The Bible teaches that one of the functions of a prophet is to be a "watchman" to warn Israel. In revelation the Lord added this counsel for modern Zion: "Set... a watchman upon the tower," who will "[see] the enemy while he [is] yet afar off" and give warning to save the vineyard "from the hands of the destroyer. I speak as one of those watchmen." Elder Dallin H. Oaks "Balancing Truth & Tolerance" Ensign February 2013


"To fulfill my promise to you I will tell you what your father (Brigham young) said to me in company with brother Heber C. Kimball in City Creek Canyon in the year 1861. In the latter part of July brother Brigham and Heber came into my house and were talking on the war of races. Your father said at the time 'they are giving us a rest but it will not be long'. Turning to me he asked 'Sister Amanda did you ever wish you had been with the saints in their driving from Nauvoo?'" "No sir", and they both looked surprised and said, I was the first of the English saints they had ever heard say so, and they asked why? I said that I believe with all my heart that to live a good saint, it will require as great courage as it did in the driving from Nauvoo before we get through. Then Brigham Young said 'Yes and more, for the trials of the saints will be harder to bare'. He further said, when our brethren the quorum of the twelve or the twelve apostles should be called to the courts of Washington to give an account of the position of the latter-day saints, then look out, for the world will be in commotion and the Lord will have something to work upon. The Lord will hear the prayers of his children it will be after this when our savior and others will make the appearance on the earth among the latter-day saints." (Journal of Amand Wilcox March 11, 1904 this text was transcribed from an audio lecture given by Hyrum Andrus)

"The time will come when the government will stop the saints from holding meetings. When this is done the Lord will pour out his judgments." Life of Heber C. Kimball,. Page 442

"...you will have all the persecution you want and more too, and all the opportunity to show your integrity to God and truth that you could desire." Life of Heber C. Kimball,. Page 451

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TZONE
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by TZONE »

for the trials of the saints will be harder to bare'. He further said, when our brethren the quorum of the twelve or the twelve apostles should be called to the courts of Washington to give an account of the position of the latter-day saints, then look out, for the world will be in commotion and the Lord will have something to work upon.
"...you will have all the persecution you want and more too, and all the opportunity to show your integrity to God and truth that you could desire." Life of Heber C. Kimball,. Page 451
I wonder how we can have more than the pioneers. They had quite a bit. It seems the first quote will cause quite the disturbance among the saints and the world. Wonder why they will be invited and what they will say (Repent or be destroyed).
JD, B YOUNG 10:250

Do you know that it is the eleventh hour of the reign of Satan on the earth? Jesus is coming to reign, and all you who fear and tremble because of your enemies, cease to fear them, and learn to fear to offend God, fear to transgress his laws, fear to do any evil to your brother, or to any being upon the earth, and do not fear Satan and his power, nor those who have only power to slay the body, for God will preserve his people.
The coming events are compared to Joseph in Egypt . It may look like they will overcome the saints (joseph) and many saints will flee to the other side but than in due time all will come unto the saints for freedom and refuge (no food, to not kill there own brother from the civil unrest) right when it looks like they will be overcome. Perhaps the plagues will do that.

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by A Random Phrase »

Good post, elogan, but it would have been easier to read if you had broken it down into several paragraphs (like 6). Just a suggestion. Thanks for posting.

MsEva
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by MsEva »

elogan wrote:Those on this post who have protested the reliablility of this talk do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Like the Jews who refused to believe that Jesus was the Savior they had waited centuries for, you are in complete ignorance of the words spoken by the prophets in every generation. We have been taught from the very beginning that these days are coming. Now that they are here, you deny the witness and warnings that offered at this time to protect you. To argue that the Church would not or should not mix politics and gospel, plainly, you have not listened to the words of the prophet, Ezra T. Bensen, who urged us emphatically to do whatever possible to preserve the U.S. Constitution and fight against the wicked ways of the devil with all our might and soul (conservatism). It does not matter if the Stake President said these words in a talk or not. Every part that is presented as being of his talk is true. Every aspect is quoted from scripture and prophets and has been written for our day. All around us we witness the signs and warnings that were prophesied in the Bible and in the Book of Mormon that we would experience prior to His coming. You appear to be ignorant of the definition of Socialism and the fact that it robs individuals of freedoms by taking away their opportunity to make choices for themselves and causes them to become increasingly reliant on the government, thereby giving that same government increasing control over their lives--the very thing that began the war in Heaven. Open up your eyes and become aware of that awful situation we find ourselves in. When you consider the laws that have passed in the past 4 years, our freedoms have, month by month, day by day, been stripped away. The government has taken control of our schools with "No Child Left Behind" by offering financial rewards to districts who consent to let federal leaders determine what students should learn--verified by state testing. We are stripped of dignity and morale by TSA when we try to board an airplane. The president continues to pass through laws without consent of Congress- taking power unto himself and ignoring Constitutional constraints and the voice of the people. Natural disasters abound and are becoming incrementally more abundant. What more evidence do you need? You are like the people described in the Book of Helaman who refused to look at the snake on a stick. Take your heads out of the proverbial sand and pay attention. Research the scriptures and learn of the signs and warnings. Study the governments in the Book of Mormon that abounded with secret combinations and were referred to as being operated by the Gadianton robbers, ultimately leading to the demise of those societies. Observe in your studies, the parallels of what those governments did then-- to what ours is doing today. Remember that this America is the promised land and the land that was founded by inspired men who put liberty first- a necessary ingredient for a social climate that would support the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Christ will not come back to a land that is not Free. He will not be subjected to tyranny and corruption. He has warned that he will first expose and destroy all those who seek for riches and power for their own benefit--worshipping an idol of gold and being persusaded by the cunning enticings of the devil who attempts to convice men that the government does a better job in making their decisions than those men can make for themselves. That is, free agency. Heed the warnings, my brothers and sisters who turn your heads from the truth. Wake up, before it is too late.

Welcome and I agree with what you said! +1 :ymapplause:

elogan
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by elogan »

Thank you. I edited it and broke it up a little bit to make it easier to follow. Again, thanks for the positive comments and the welcome!

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by A Random Phrase »

It looks much better. I'm glad I did not offend you with my suggestion. It was such a good post, and I thought more people would read it if it was made easier to read.

buffalo_girl
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by buffalo_girl »

We had our Stake Conference this past weekend. The Sunday session was broadcast from Salt Lake City with Elder Oaks presiding.

The big news for us was that our Stake has grown so much from the influx of Bakken Oil Field workers & families that the Ward buildings could not hold everyone for the first broadcast so an additional replay of it had to be held later in the day.

The main theme was, "Stay away from the edge!"

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uglypitbull
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by uglypitbull »

:ymapplause: elogan :ymapplause:

Reco
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by Reco »

Wow, this guy has some guts! I understand that he probably means well, and that his message is to be prepared for the second coming of the Savior, but I think some of his comments are extreme, political, and not at all appropriate to be said over the pulpit at stake conference. The Church has never, or will ever endorse a political party or candidate. This man, however, in so many words condones Pres. Obama, which by default promotes the opposite party, if not the opposite candidate (Romney). You might ask yourself, "Why do I say this?" Well, let's examine some of the comments made in his talk. "The UN Ambassador was instructed by the White House to cover up what happened in Libya, attempting to minimize the death of four Americans who were murdered." What proof does he have of this? What is his source? If it is the media, God help the man. Even if this statement is true he is directly attacking the white house, which is the same thing as attacking Pres. Obama. Next he says, "In 2012, the voice of the people spoke loudly and clearly as it chose:
Socialism over capitalism, Entities over free enterprise, Redistribution and regulation over self reliance. He might as well have said, "I am disgruntled over the fact that Pres. Obama was re-elected and I hate everything he stands for politically." It is the exact same thing, just using different words.

Now, I may or may not agree with what goes on in the government. I may or may not like Pres. Obama, but that does not give me the right or any other church leader to stand up and press his personal political views to a church congregation!

The other thing I have a problem with is this quote: "I believe many within the sound of my voice will be part of, and witnesses to, ALL (did you catch that, he said ALL) of the events that will transpire prior to the return of the Savior." I would have been fine with this statement except used the word ALL. I'm sorry, but here he is treading on really thin ice. He is leaning to predicting when the second coming will happen. Lets read for a minute what the Lord says on the subject. "I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes." (D&C 49:7).

My question is why did he not stick to the doctrine? He could have given a beautiful inspiring talk on how we should be prepared for the second coming without all the political junk he FELT he should throw in there!

I do not condone this man or think he is bad, evil, or anything of the sort. I am simply examining his own words and pointing out the facts. I think he needs evaluate what he is trying to accomplish by giving a talk like this!

brotherJonathan
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by brotherJonathan »

What if God does love us enough to give us knowledge we so need for understanding. Knowledge to understand how we God's children are deceived about the truth of things. This how is better understood as why than how. Why because all life must have nature's instinct mechanism to operate in current reality. Sounds like science fiction but current reality is simply the absolute facts of environment at this moment in physical time. Un filtered by beliefs and self deceptions of the human consciousness.
Now you know how Psychiatrist try to think.
This short paper is some truth given to me to share with others. We will love one another more fully when knowledge frees us to do so.
Another gift from God. We may not deserve this gift but we sure need it.

Sub-Conscience device
“STATUS QUO Mechanism”
HIDES THE IMMORAL PARTS OF CURRENT REALITY FROM ITS HOST, SO WE WON’T RISK CHANGING SAFELY OPERATING CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS WITH HIGH RISK ACTIONS: BY INDIVIDUALS OR THE GROUPS.
WE ARE DECEIVED; THE MASSES AND INDIVIDUALLY BY THIS MECHANISM OF SELF PROTECTION.
OUR SUB-CONSCIENCE IS CONTROLLING EACH OF US BY BLINDING US TO THE TRUE IMMORAL FACTS OF OUR ENVIRONMENT, MAKING IT NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE ANY IMMORAL PARTS OF STATUS QUO’S OPERATING AS IS. WE ARE DECEIVED AND ARE FORCED TO ACCEPT IMMORAL ASPECTS OF CURRENT REALITY, BY DENIAL OF FACTS/TRUTHS BY MECHANISMS POWER OVER HOST.
1- WE CAN’T SEE THAT BRIBERY IS GIVING MONEY TO EFFECT OUTCOME OF PUBLIC OFFICE DECISIONS AND IS UNLAWFUL.
2- CRIMINALIZING CITIZENS FOR NOT BUYING DRUGS FROM A MONOPOLY IS UNLAWFUL.
WE JUST CAN’T SEE IT. BOTH ARE PROVABLE TRUTHS. BUT WE CAN’T COMPREHEND OR TAKE ACTION BECAUSE “MECHANISM IS OVERRIDING EACH CONSCIOUS MIND RECEIVING CORRECT INFORMATION AT HAND.” IT, THE MECHANISM, IS PROTECTING EACH OF US FOR BEST CHANCE OF SURVIVAL BY USING INSTINCTS POWERS OF CONTROL OVER INDIVIDUAL/GROUPS COLLECTIVELY. IT IS WRONG TO BE IMMORAL IS NOT PART OF ITS PROGRAM. INSTINCT PROGRAM IS NOT MORAL IT IS SURVIVAL BASED.
Status quo is a Latin term meaning the existing state of affairs; IS DETERMINED BY SUB-CONSCIENCE MECHANISM AND IS NOT DETERMINED BY CONSCIOUS MINDS.
Knowledge is a gift from God. It can free us to be moral human beings. Do we want to be moral human beings? Or continue to be deceived by our sub-conscience and its mechanisms.
By Elder Jonathan L. Peterson, servant of our Lord Jesus Christ

buffalo_girl
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by buffalo_girl »

Status quo is a Latin term meaning the existing state of affairs; IS DETERMINED BY SUB-CONSCIENCE MECHANISM AND IS NOT DETERMINED BY CONSCIOUS MINDS.

Even when the evil spell is broken and truth KNOWN, how can sanity be restored in a population yet in a trance?

wolfman
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by wolfman »

He is right that there is a TEST coming and personally I think it might be similar to Israel’s test in Jeremiahs day. Jeremiah had a strange message for the Jews: "Serve Babylon and live!" (In other words, pay a little tribute to Babylon and they will leave you alone) The Jewish leaders thought the prophet went nutty; they were Gods chosen people and they were going to stand on principle. They rejected his words, his advice was treated as treason and Jeremiah was thrown into prison. Then Babylon came and destroyed the Israelites. I pray continually that I will not be deceived. When it comes down to it I’ll follow the prophet and I hope I have enough oil of conversion and not just holding a lamp of testimony.

buffalo_girl
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by buffalo_girl »

Thank you, wolfman!

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TZONE
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by TZONE »

Well that is a trial I have not thought of! I like it that explanation greatly.

Indy
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by Indy »

Davidg wrote:Can anyone verify the authenticity of this transcript? Its rather unique given that it mentions a lot of government related events--something that the church usually avoids in order to keep from bringing to bear any negative reaction from powerful forces in government which sometimes leads to governments interfering with the mission of the church.
I can not verify if it is true, but there is an article in the SL Tribune: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55876 ... r.html.csp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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sonofliberty
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by sonofliberty »

Reco wrote:Wow, this guy has some guts! I understand that he probably means well, and that his message is to be prepared for the second coming of the Savior, but I think some of his comments are extreme, political, and not at all appropriate to be said over the pulpit at stake conference. The Church has never, or will ever endorse a political party or candidate. This man, however, in so many words condones Pres. Obama, which by default promotes the opposite party, if not the opposite candidate (Romney). You might ask yourself, "Why do I say this?" Well, let's examine some of the comments made in his talk. "The UN Ambassador was instructed by the White House to cover up what happened in Libya, attempting to minimize the death of four Americans who were murdered." What proof does he have of this? What is his source? If it is the media, God help the man. Even if this statement is true he is directly attacking the white house, which is the same thing as attacking Pres. Obama. Next he says, "In 2012, the voice of the people spoke loudly and clearly as it chose:
Socialism over capitalism, Entities over free enterprise, Redistribution and regulation over self reliance. He might as well have said, "I am disgruntled over the fact that Pres. Obama was re-elected and I hate everything he stands for politically." It is the exact same thing, just using different words.

Now, I may or may not agree with what goes on in the government. I may or may not like Pres. Obama, but that does not give me the right or any other church leader to stand up and press his personal political views to a church congregation!

The other thing I have a problem with is this quote: "I believe many within the sound of my voice will be part of, and witnesses to, ALL (did you catch that, he said ALL) of the events that will transpire prior to the return of the Savior." I would have been fine with this statement except used the word ALL. I'm sorry, but here he is treading on really thin ice. He is leaning to predicting when the second coming will happen. Lets read for a minute what the Lord says on the subject. "I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes." (D&C 49:7).

My question is why did he not stick to the doctrine? He could have given a beautiful inspiring talk on how we should be prepared for the second coming without all the political junk he FELT he should throw in there!

I do not condone this man or think he is bad, evil, or anything of the sort. I am simply examining his own words and pointing out the facts. I think he needs evaluate what he is trying to accomplish by giving a talk like this!
He is not saying anything that has not been said by previous prophets.

Reco wrote:Now, I may or may not agree with what goes on in the government. I may or may not like Pres. Obama, but that does not give me the right or any other church leader to stand up and press his personal political views to a church congregation!


President Ezra Taft Benson, General Conference April 1972
"Suppose a leader of the Church were to tell you that you were supporting the wrong side of a particular issue. Some might immediately resist this leader and his counsel or ignore it, but I would suggest that you first apply the fourth great civic standard for the faithful Saints. That standard is to live for, to get, and then to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

Said Brigham Young: “I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. … Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.” (JD,‍ vol. 9, p. 150.)

A number of years ago, because of a statement that appeared to represent the policy of the Church, a faithful member feared he was supporting the wrong candidate for public office. Humbly he took the matter up with the Lord. Through the Spirit of the Lord he gained the conviction of the course he should follow, and he dropped his support of this particular candidate.

This good brother, by fervent prayer, got the answer that in time proved to be the right course.
"
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Others:
Joseph Smith

“I attended a second lecture on Socialism, by Mr. Finch; and after he got through, I made a few remarks… I said I did not believe the doctrine.” (History of the Church 6:33)

Heber J. Grant

“We again warn our people in America of the constantly increasing threat against our inspired Constitution and our free institutions set up under it. The same political tenets and philosophies that have brought war and terror in other parts of the world are at work amongst us in America…

“… Communism and all other similar isms bear no relationship whatever to the United Order. They are merely the clumsy counterfeits which Satan always devises of the gospel plan… Latter-day Saints cannot be true to their faith and lend aid, encouragement, or sympathy to any of these false philosophies. They will prove snares to their feet.” (Grant and McKay 273, 343)

David O. McKay

“Church members are at perfect liberty to act according to their own consciences in the matter of safeguarding our way of life. They are, of course, encouraged to honor the highest standards of the gospel and to work to preserve their own freedoms. They are free to participate in non-church meetings that are held to warn people of the threat of Communism or any other theory or principle that will deprive us of our free agency or individual liberties vouchsafed by the Constitution of the United States.” (”Statement Concerning the Position of the Church on Communism” 477)

First Presidency 1941 ( Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark, Jr., David O. McKay )

“We believe that our real threat comes from within and not from without, and it comes from that underlying spirit common to Nazism, Fascism, and Communism, namely, the spirit which would array class against class, which would set up a socialistic state of some sort, which would rob the people of the liberties which we possess under the Constitution…

“As we see it, there is no way in which we can, to use your own words, “preserve and perpetuate our freedom—freedom to govern ourselves, freedom of speech, and freedom to worship God according to our own light,” except we shall turn away from our present course and resume the normal course along which this great country traveled to its present high eminence of prosperity, of culture, of universal education, and of the peace and contentment which we enjoyed prior to the inauguration of the “New Deal”. (1932-3)

“These things are not matters of partisan politics with us. We care nothing as Church leaders about partisan politics as such, nor about the dominance of one party or the other. We grant to every man the right to vote as he wishes, and we would not control his vote even if we could. But we do reserve to ourselves the right to tell our people what we think is right regarding politics as affecting the fundamentals of our government system, to warn them of the dangers that lie under the present course, and to try to persuade them that their peace, their happiness, and their security do not lie along the path of the present trends of government.

“Truly, we do not believe that—again to quote your own words—we can “preserve and perpetuate our freedom—freedom to govern ourselves, freedom of speech, and freedom to worship God according to our own light” unless we turn squarely about and return to the old-time virtues, and re-enthrone our liberties and free institutions.” (A Letter to the Treasury from the LDS First Presidency in 1941 )

Ezra Taft Benson

“No true Latter-day Saint can be a Communist or a Socialist because Communist principles run counter to the revealed word of God and to the Constitution of this land which was established by men whom the God of Heaven raised up unto that very purpose [D&C 101:80].” (”A Four-Fold Hope” 11)

“President McKay has said a lot about our tragic trends towards socialism and communism and the responsibilities liberty-loving people have in defending and preserving our Constitution. (See Conference Report, Apr 1963, pp. 112-13.) Have we read these words from God’s mouthpiece and pondered on them?” (”Be Not Deceived” 1064; compare GFC 340)

“Let us not be deceived in the sifting days ahead. Let us rally together on principle behind the prophet as guided by the promptings of the Spirit. We should continue to speak out for freedom and against socialism and communism. We should continue to come to the aid of patriots, programs, and organizations that are trying to save our Constitution through every legal and moral means possible.” (”Be Not Deceived” 1065; compare GFC 342)

“We must be righteous and moral. We must live the gospel principles—all of them. We have no right to expect a higher degree of morality from those who represent us than what we ourselves are. In the final analysis, people generally get the kind of government they deserve. To live a higher law means we will not seek to receive what we have not earned by our own labor. It means we will remember that government owes us nothing. It means we will keep the laws of the land. It means we will look to God as our Lawgiver and the Source of our liberty.” (CHB 28-31)

“I fear for the future when I realize that for some thirty years our once-free institutions, political, economic, educational and social, have been drifting into the hands of those who favor the Welfare State, and who would “centralize all power in the hands of the political apparatus in Washington. This enhancement of political power at the expense of individual rights, so often disguised as ‘democracy’ or ‘freedom’ or ‘civil rights,’ is ’socialism,’ no matter what name tag it bears…

“I fear for the future when I see an affluent but complacent citizenry paying little or no attention to these and many other socialistic trends in America.

“Dr. V. Orval Watts, noted political economist, has described this socialist system which I fear-and I have but suggested a very few evidences. Here are his words: ‘Socialism… is the theory and practice of coercive collectivism. It is the evil fruit of greed for other men’s possessions and greed for control over other men’s labor.’” (Elder Ezra Taft Benson December 10 1963. A Race Against Time.)

“We have moved a long way – and are now moving further and more rapidly down the soul-destroying road of socialism. The evidence is clear – shockingly clear for all to see…

“Now we should all be opposed to Socialistic-Communism, for it is our mortal and spiritual enemy – the greatest evil in the world today. But the reason many liberals don’t want the American people to form study groups to really understand and than fight Socialistic-Communism is that once the American people get the facts they will begin to realize that much of what these liberals advocate is actually helping the enemy.

“The liberals hope you’ll believe them when they tell you how anti-Communist they are. But they become alarmed if you really inform yourself on the subject of Socialistic-Communism. For after you inform yourself you might begin to study the liberal voting record. And this study would show you how much the liberals are giving aid and comfort to the enemy and how much the liberals are actually leading America towards Socialism itself.

“For Communism is just another form of socialism, as is fascism. So now you can see the picture. These liberals want you to know how much they are doing for you – with your tax money of course. But they don’t want you to realize that the path they are pursuing is socialistic, and that socialism is the same as communism in its ultimate effect on our liberties. When you point this out they want to shut you up – they accuse you of maligning them, of casting aspersions, of being political. No matter whether they label their bottle as liberalism, progressivism, or social reform – I know the contents of the bottle is poison to this Republic and I’m going to call it poison.” (Ezra Taft Benson. Stand Up For Freedom. Assembly Hall at Temple Square, Feb 11, 1966. Given to The Utah Forum for the American Idea)


In response to your second point below:
The other thing I have a problem with is this quote: "I believe many within the sound of my voice will be part of, and witnesses to, ALL (did you catch that, he said ALL) of the events that will transpire prior to the return of the Savior." I would have been fine with this statement except used the word ALL. I'm sorry, but here he is treading on really thin ice. He is leaning to predicting when the second coming will happen.


Notice he is speaking of the events occurring and not that any will actually witness Christ coming. President Benson said almost the identical thing over 30 years ago in 1981 during a BYU address.

President Ezra Taft Benson April 19, 1981 BYU Address as President of the Quorum of the Tweleve Apostles:
"I want you to know that it is a great honor to be with you and feel of your spirit. You young men and women are choice spirits; you were reserved for this special time; you have a unique task to accomplish in this world, and our prayers are constantly with you that you will live up to the expectations the Lord has for you. We love you. We have confidence in you. We pray for you.

The people of every generation, I suppose, see the time in which they live as being exceptional. The truth of the matter is that you do live in a most exceptional time in the history of the world. You young people will see events transpire which were promised from the beginning of the world. Prophets of old have seen your days and rejoiced in them. And yet, you will face challenges and circumstances the severity of which has been unparalleled in generations past. For this you must be prepared.

Today, I speak to you about the times in which you live and about the quality of faith you will need to survive some of the difficulties yet to be experienced. I speak as one who loves you and has been given a responsibility, with my Brethren, “to testify and warn” about the impending crises facing mankind. I speak to you to the topic “Prepare yourselves for the great day of the Lord.”
...
do you realize we are living in the days of the fulfillment of these signs and wonders? You are among those who will see many of these prophecies fulfilled. Just as certain as was the destruction of the temple at Jerusalem and the scattering of the Jews, so shall these words of the Savior be certain to your generation.

We know not the day nor the hour of his coming, but of this you may feel assured: You stand close to the great day of the Lord! In his words of modern revelation, we say to you,

Seek the face of the Lord, always. [D&C 101:38]

You will live in the midst of economic, political, and spiritual instability. When you see these signs—unmistakable evidences that his coming is nigh—be not troubled, but, “stand . . . in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come” (D&C 87:8). Holy men and holy women stand in holy places, and these holy places include our temples, our chapels, our homes, and the stakes of Zion, which are, as the Lord declares, “for a defense, and for a refuge from the storm, and from wrath when it shall be poured out without mixture upon the whole earth” (D&C 115:6).

Heed the Lord’s counsel to the Saints of this dispensation:

Prepare yourselves for the great day of the Lord. [D&C 133:10]"
http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=92" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So in 1981, President Benson informs 18-22 year old BYU students that they are living in the days of the fulfillment of the prophecies of the coming of the Lord and that there are those present who will see many of those prophecies fulfilled. It certainly isn't far fetched for a stake president, when moved upon by the Holy Spirit, to state some 32 years later that there are those present (which includes infants and small children) who will see all of the prophecies fulfilled. Notice he does not mention at all that they will actually witness the Lord's return. We know that only the Father knows when that will occur.

Now, I am not saying that President De Visser is right or wrong. I do not know the man at all and I am not a member of his stake. He has no stewardship over me and his words were not meant for me. However, before one goes and attacks what he is saying and stating that it is inconsistent with the teachings of the Church, you must measure what he has said with what the scriptures and the prophets have said. Personally, I do not find what he has said inconsistent with them.

MsEva
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by MsEva »

Great post sonofliberty! :ymapplause:

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sonofliberty
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by sonofliberty »

MsEva wrote:Great post sonofliberty! :ymapplause:
Thanks MsEva! Just calling it how I see it.

deep water
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Post by deep water »

A question from the scriptures asks? Who will survive the day of burning? The answer is "those who have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide". Lehi and Nephi are the first examples in the BoM of people taking the holy spirit for their guide. Those of us who abide the day will be led in the same manner. And When the earth is cleansed only those who have been cleansed by fire and the Holy Ghost will make it through. The very reason that we are falling is because we have gone off course and have chosen mammon over God. We were promised that we would be safe only if we were good. We have fallen so far we don't even know why we are falling. The teachings of the BoM have fallen on deft ears. We need to repent and turn from our wicked ways and choose to serve God rather than mammon. The first principal of the gospel is to know the character of God. That God can't lie nor can he change. The same plan that was before the world came into being is the still the same plan we should believe in today. We were told that we were to be "A strange and peculiar people", we were to be "in the world and not of it". Christ was asked where his kingdom was, he said "my kingdom is not of this world". Why else would Nephi say with his last words "I bid you an everlasting farewell, for these words shall condemn you at the last day" and be brought against you at the judgement bar of God. Those who have been redeemed will walk through the fire and shall not be burnt; neither shall the fire kindle upon them. We have our rich and poor, our sick and afflicted, our own sports teams, our own places to teach us how better to navigate mammon. We have our Dr.s, lawyers, CEO.s, thous who have excelled in the world. I cannot even think of one game that teaches the value of how to love our neighbor. They are all based upon I win you loose. The sad thing is we all loose this game.

freedomforall
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by freedomforall »

I know this post is late, but I've given thought to some of the posts and I think some people here just don't get it. If they think by hiding under the church attendance umbrella is going to save them...they're wrong. It makes no difference what party one is in; it makes no difference what side of any issue is taken, what matters is that we eschew socialism and recognize wrong doing in government. And we better be knowledgeable enough to know the difference. These questions help in that effort.

What came first, righteousness, knowing good from evil...or politics.
What kind of government was Adam and Eve under?
Why is this land called the Promised Land?
What was the purpose for God setting up a Constitution in our day?
Why is it wrong to talk about evil vs good in church, politically or not?
The Constitution and scriptures are for mankind and were given to us by God. Why?
We're told that the Constitution is akin to scripture...does anyone dispute this? Why?
The same law the Constitution provides is the same Constitutional law that the Savior will institute when he reigns...anyone dispute this? Why?

I thank Elogan for his comments. He is correct on all counts.

awar_e
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by awar_e »

This thread has been of particular interest to me.
It is both an awakening and a frightful situation to observe the responses that are being posted.
When L Tom Parry announced in a conference talk a few short years ago that Now is the time for EVERYONE to become aware of their awful situation, his words struck me like a lightening bolt. I knew the significance of his words and expected to see a great change of attitude come over the members.
As it seemed that his words were promptly forgotten, I finally began to recognize what my own awful situation is. Words and events which I had studied for over 30 years were coming to surface in a conference talk, which we are told that we are to treat like scripture.
My situation was that while I had been learning and trying to warn others all those years, it was now evident to me that very few cared or believed what I had learned.

Now we see a stake president warning the people using past topics from Prophets and he is being literally stoned by the use of printed words.
For some years I have seen evidence of the prophets being rather silent on affairs of govt. I have also observed some strange happenings at BYU, Deseret News, and KSL.
Satan has had a long time to exercise his powers that pertain to his role as god of this world. (Babylon) Can we somehow imagine that this is not the case?

We have been told for some years that the time would come when we must rely on the Holy Ghost for assistance in following the right path. Govt no longer allows truth to be broadcast forcefully. Prominent leaders are watched quite closely, while local leaders usually can slip under the radar.
I see the stake president being a VERY LATTER DAY voice of warning shortly before we see even more signs of the times. Meteor, asteroid, and now Cyprus banking disaster.
Anyone that is not shocked into a wakeful state of mind by the Cyprus situation is simply not awake.
I see things to be in a severe state of emergency for the nation to repent of allowing evil to take over govt and those who do not see the signs, may just as well form a line for their shots, and other govt mandated methods of slow extermination.
Dr Jones may be a few steps ahead of the rest of us.

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sonofliberty
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by sonofliberty »

Excellent posts Freedomfighter and Awar_e! I guess only he/she who has eyes to see and ears to hear are recognizing what is going on right now ... I am truly shocked how many otherwise good church members are completely oblivious to what is going on and do not even consider the freedom issue, upholding the Constitution and not supporting secret combinations as part of the Gospel.
Last edited by sonofliberty on March 19th, 2013, 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

awar_e
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Re: Hidden Valley Stake Pres. De Visser talk

Post by awar_e »

The words ring ever louder. Many are called but few are chosen. The Stake President in Sandy was obviously chosen.

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