Does the Church Use Paid Persons to Monitor Our Discussions?

[shadowcaptain of 1,000]

Seems like you're the offended one. Simmer down big chief, simmer down.

Turns out there are many saints who don't take the bread and water as a small relief from the mandatory and only monthly fast. Turns out many people don't watch football or other non-uplifting TV programs either. Some, like me, don't even have TV service at all so we can't even watch TV during the week .

Yesterday was a great day in my ward. We had 3 missionary farewells.

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

Great post Steve Jones, 50 percent of the True Church will pass the test!

You mean 50% of those who think they are ready for Jesus to come. That makes it a much smaller number. All of the ten virgins sincerely believed they had a right to meet the bridegroom and enter the marriage feast.

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

The coming trials will strengthen many in the church who are lacking a bit today! It'll be 50 percent!

Bob

[A Random Phrasecaptain of 1,000]

The coming trials will strengthen many in the church who are lacking a bit today! It'll be 50 percent!

Bob

And the coming trials will weed out many who thought, "All is well in Zion. Yea, Zion prospereth," as well as those whose testimonies are based on men, or on the organization, instead of on Jesus Christ, Himself. The trials will also weed out the hypocrites, and those who are only "Mormon" by tradition. Study the Book of Mormon: Not even Jesus holds out hope that many of us Gentiles will be true to Him. The coming trials will decimate and shake the faith of all but those who are firmly rooted in Jesus Christ and none else. Yes, some will come to their senses because of their tribulations, but the scriptures lead me to believe that precious few of the Gentile members of the LDS church will "stay true no matter what."

To me, your posts are overly optimistic. I doubt I can change your opinion, and I'll not argue the point to try to force you to see things my way. If you are right, and I am wrong, then I will rejoice when that day comes.

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

To me, your posts are overly optimistic. I doubt I can change your opinion, and I'll not argue the point to try to force you to see things my way. If you are right, and I am wrong, then I will rejoice when that day comes.

Lol, good idea!

[coachmarcMy own worst enemy]

Just to clarify my previous post when I refer to the church, I mean the entire body. I am not accusing our leadership. I sustain them and I have a testimony that they are inspired. Whether or not any of them have a personal audience with the Savior as Nephi and many others did, I don't know. There is another topic on this forum: Which came first the chicken or the egg? Now if our leadership preaches skim milk from the pulpit, it is only because the general membership simply are not valiant in their testimony of Jesus Christ, if they have one. Most members have no clue because they simply do not search the scriptures diligently. They are making the same mistakes that the Nephites and Lamanites did, that the ancient Israelites did, etc.

OK -- thanks for clarifying, coachmarc!

You're welcome. I am sure that I seem to stand out as someone on the fringes of the church. I am reminded again that I really need to choose my words more carefully and that what I post is actually what I am trying to convey, which is usually supported by prophets from the Book of Mormon or leaders of this dispensation, usually our early leaders who expounded on meatier doctrine and didn't mince words (Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, etc). I probably should sleep on posts too, before I submit them. I've been trying harder. And thank you for that post you made. I'm with you there.

[Kingdom of ZIONcaptain of 100]

If you think the government accidentally killed David Korresh and his followers, and then did not have anything to do with the Waco records being destroyed in the Oklahoma bombing... and cannot see why the government feared David Korrech, then you will never see what the LDS Church is really capable of!

Doggone it, I am so lost!!!!

Are you comparing the LDS Church to the Branch Davidians or to the government?

I believe the point was that if the Branch Davidians and their little compund were such a threat to bring about such a response, what could 15 million committed and guided by revelation LDS do?

I guess in answer to your question, the LDS church is being compared to the Branch Davidians - but not in a bad way, just as a potential thorn in the side of government.

KoZ: What I was speaking to was "Does the Church Use Paid Persons to Monitor Our Discussion?" Yes.

"They would be Negligent in their duties if they did not. The Church has many enemies, and watching forums as well as pro and anti websites allows them to see trends that are coming that may led to large apostasies, bad press that can grow out of these trends, lawsuits that could blindside them if they were not looking, or just losing the public image or perceptions they want of the Church portrayed in."

With that said,

"But like the US Government, there is a dark side to this kind of information gathering, this spying they do. The LDS Church is like every true church before them that has gone into apostasy, having lost the gift of prophecy and revelation, they use every means in their power to search the recorded prophecies from their foundation/formation looking for clues as to of what will come next and how to appear they are aware of it and are apart of this next work G_d is doing among men. However, secretly they will seek out and try to defame, destroy, or remove anyone who really threatens their organization. If you think the government accidentally killed David Korresh and his followers, and then did not have anything to do with the Waco records being destroyed in the Oklahoma bombing... and cannot see why the government feared David Korrech, then you will never see what the LDS Church is really capable of!"

What I meant when I said,

"If you think the government accidentally killed David Korresh and his followers [this was no accident], and then did not have anything to do with the Waco records being destroyed in the Oklahoma bombing [they did it to cover up their murders]... and [you] cannot see why the government feared David Korrech [the Adversaries forces feared he was the prophesied David to come in the latter-days], then you will never see what the LDS Church is really capable of! [they would do basically the same thing if this David came against them with authority from heaven]"

Now, yes their are those here that think I am out to lunch on the Church's status before the throne of G_d or heaven, and many will say I accuse the Church of actions never taken (yet), and even a few will say (including Dr. Jones) that I am attempting to steadying the arc. But I will tell you of an absolute fact and truth:

May I again note that the Church of Jesus Christ holds the keys of the Priesthood of God and is the "good woman" spoken of in Revelation, which will build the New Jerusalem/Zion as the red Beast and the whore Babylon fight it out in the last days.

I want to be part of this building of NJ/Zion. How about you?

Who else will do it, in preparation for the coming of Christ, if not the Church of Jesus Christ?

Now, the Lord himself said there will be a cleansing of the Church in the last days -- "upon my house shall it begin" He said clearly. And then -- not an afterthought-- He instructed us to not concern ourselves with steadying the ark; He will do the cleansing. Would you read with me prayerfully?

I do and have not... 15 Exalt not yourselves; rebel not against my servant Joseph; for verily I say unto you, I am with him, and my hand shall be over him; and the keys which I have given unto him, and also to youward, shall not be taken from him till I come. D&C112:15

His keys are still with him, I am not looking to his keys...

24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.

27 Therefore, see to it that ye trouble not yourselves concerning the affairs of my church in this place, saith the Lord. D&C 112:24-27

Comments added.


This is a totally different subject. You assume that this did not start in Joseph Smith time, in that place. You think your waiting for it to begin, when it already has come to pass.

Again what DrJones said was:

May I again note that the Church of Jesus Christ holds the keys of the Priesthood of God and is the "good woman" spoken of in Revelation, which will build the New Jerusalem/Zion as the red Beast and the whore Babylon fight it out in the last days.

I want to be part of this building of NJ/Zion. How about you?

Who else will do it, in preparation for the coming of Christ, if not the Church of Jesus Christ?

Now, the Lord himself said there will be a cleansing of the Church in the last days -- "upon my house shall it begin" He said clearly. And then -- not an afterthought-- He instructed us to not concern ourselves with steadying the ark; He will do the cleansing.

You are assuming that the Church just because they hold the Aaronic keys, they still posses the Melchizedek keys, let alone the keys of Elijah [Patriarchal keys]. It is NOT the Gentiles but Yesrael who is the good women (or the natural olive branch) who will build the New Jerusalem/Zion. And only those Gentiles who repent and are found numbered among Yesrael shall be part of this building of NJ/Zion. You ask about me? Fear not, I will be there. Who else will do it, in preparation for the coming of Christ, if not the Church of Jesus Christ? The Catholics will say, it is them, and the Mormons will say, it is them, but low and behold, it will be initially the indigenous peoples of this continent [and those Gentiles who repent and are numbered among them], and then shall come forth the Ten Tribes. Do not hold your breath for the Gentiles to do it... they are long past having the authority to do anything. And that is another long separate story again.

Shalom

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

You are assuming that the Church just because they hold the Aaronic keys, they still posses the Melchizedek keys, let alone the keys of Elijah [Patriarchal keys]. It is NOT the Gentiles but Yesrael who is the good women (or the natural olive branch) who will build the New Jerusalem/Zion. And only those Gentiles who repent and are found numbered among Yesrael shall be part of this building of NJ/Zion. You ask about me? Fear not, I will be there. Who else will do it, in preparation for the coming of Christ, if not the Church of Jesus Christ? The Catholics will say, it is them, and the Mormons will say, it is them, but low and behold, it will be initially the indigenous peoples of this continent [and those Gentiles who repent and are numbered among them], and then shall come forth the Ten Tribes. Do not hold your breath for the Gentiles to do it... they are long past having the authority to do anything. And that is another long separate story again.

And you Brother are walking in darkness at noon day. You misinterpret both the scriptures and the Prophets. The Lord has been clear on the redemption of Zion. Go read his revelation He gave in section 133 of the Doctrine & Covenants. Pay particular attention to verses 30-37. Who are these children of Ephraim who are promised the richer blessings? Thomas S Monson is the Lords recognized Prophet and mouthpiece to all the world and holds ALL the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood. They are found no where else. Legal administrators of the saving ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ are found only within The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. No amount of wresting the scriptures will change that fact.

[karend77captain of 100]

And you Brother are walking in darkness at noon day. You misinterpret both the scriptures and the Prophets. The Lord has been clear on the redemption of Zion. Go read his revelation He gave in section 133 of the Doctrine & Covenants. Pay particular attention to verses 30-37. Who are these children of Ephraim who are promised the richer blessings? Thomas S Monson is the Lords recognized Prophet and mouthpiece to all the world and holds ALL the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood. They are found no where else. Legal administrators of the saving ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ are found only within The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. No amount of wresting the scriptures will change that fact.

Thank you for your post of faith.

[shadowcaptain of 1,000]

The coming trials will strengthen many in the church who are lacking a bit today! It'll be 50 percent!

Bob

And the coming trials will weed out many who thought, "All is well in Zion. Yea, Zion prospereth," as well as those whose testimonies are based on men, or on the organization, instead of on Jesus Christ, Himself. The trials will also weed out the hypocrites, and those who are only "Mormon" by tradition. Study the Book of Mormon: Not even Jesus holds out hope that many of us Gentiles will be true to Him. The coming trials will decimate and shake the faith of all but those who are firmly rooted in Jesus Christ and none else. Yes, some will come to their senses because of their tribulations, but the scriptures lead me to believe that precious few of the Gentile members of the LDS church will "stay true no matter what."

Or instead of weeding them out the coming trials may be a catalyst for repenting. Maybe that will cause those who think they're more converted than others to fall away. But don't do it if you find yourself in that position in the future, internalize Elder Hollands last GC talk. It might just come in handy to all you already converted and thus better than everyone else people.

[bobhenstracaptain of 1,000]

I too recommend Elder Hollands talk, what a great talk!

Bob

[Kingdom of ZIONcaptain of 100]

And you Brother are walking in darkness at noon day. You misinterpret both the scriptures and the Prophets. The Lord has been clear on the redemption of Zion. Go read his revelation He gave in section 133 of the Doctrine & Covenants. Pay particular attention to verses 30-37. Who are these children of Ephraim who are promised the richer blessings? Thomas S Monson is the Lords recognized Prophet and mouthpiece to all the world and holds ALL the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood. They are found no where else. Legal administrators of the saving ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ are found only within The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. No amount of wresting the scriptures will change that fact.

I know the source of my truths, you assume that the Gentiles who make up most of the LDS Church are Ephraimites. Time will tell who sees and who stands in darkness!

30 And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.
31 And the boundaries of the everlasting hills shall tremble at their presence.
32 And there shall they fall down and be crowned with glory, even in Zion, by the hands of the servants of the Lord, even the children of Ephraim.
33 And they shall be filled with songs of everlasting joy.
34 Behold, this is the blessing of the everlasting God upon the tribes of Israel, and the richer blessing upon the head of Ephraim and his fellows.
35 And they also of the tribe of Judah, after their pain, shall be sanctified in holiness before the Lord, to dwell in his presence day and night, forever and ever.
36 And now, verily saith the Lord, that these things might be known among you, O inhabitants of the earth, I have sent forth mine angel flying through the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel, who hath appeared unto some and hath committed it unto man, who shall appear unto many that dwell on the earth.
37 And this gospel shall be preached unto every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.
D&C 133: 30-37

I think you might need to read verse 36 more closer too...

Reading the whole Revelation is much more insightful (not as easy to wrestle this scripture ), like the command to come out of Babylon, which the Church did when they move to Utah. It then goes on in verse 8, to talks about the Church going first to the Gentiles (which it has) and then to the Jew (Judea, which it has not as of yet done!).

8 Send forth the elders of my church unto the nations which are afar off; unto the islands of the sea; send forth unto foreign lands; call upon all nations, first upon the Gentiles, and then upon the Jews.
D&C 133:8

Call upon ALL nation except Israel... By the way, I do not wrest the scriptures.

[ithinkcaptain of 1,000]

We don't do that anymore? Boy thats news to me. I have always thought every Presiding High Priest from Pres. Monson on down was in fact chosen from the body of high priests. What did I miss? Were there any Presiding High Priests not chosen from the body of the existing high priests of their time?

C'mon Mark, you know the Pres is always chosen from the Apostles. The instruction to do that is right there in D&C... well, it is in ... .I thought it was.... oh heck, it's now a tradition. I'll look up the scripture to support your view when they write it. As it is, the next Pres will be the Pres of the Qof12. It always is, and will remain so, until the Corporation Sole of the President is dissolved. And until that happens, the Pres will not be chosen from the body of HP from the Church, but from the Qof12 only. That counts you and me out buddy, although technically we should be in the running. And of course, and Apostle is not a HP, he is an Apostle, and he is not both.

[minganocaptain of 1,000]

And not just "chosen from", but the succession is automatic - when the heart of the current prophet takes its final beat the mantle is transferred instantly, seamlessly and without hesitation. The most senior apostle is the next prophet and needs only to formalize it. There is no question, no doubt, no pause.

[ithinkcaptain of 1,000]

And not just "chosen from", but the succession is automatic - when the heart of the current prophet takes its final beat the mantle is transferred instantly, seamlessly and without hesitation. The most senior apostle is the next prophet and needs only to formalize it. There is no question, no doubt, no pause.

(Almost) Exactly! The only question then being when in history has God ever formally predetermined the next prophet in perpetuity?

The articles of incorporation mandate that there be no interruption of the corporation sole. It cannot be John Doe for even 24 hours. This is a legal matter. And for those who think the keys are bestowed on the Pres by the 12, tell me who set Brigham apart as the prophet? or how about even the President?

[AussieOicaptain of 1,000]

And not just "chosen from", but the succession is automatic - when the heart of the current prophet takes its final beat the mantle is transferred instantly, seamlessly and without hesitation. The most senior apostle is the next prophet and needs only to formalize it. There is no question, no doubt, no pause.

yeah, refer ithink
moot point, because if god didnt want him we can assume he's not be there, but i dont think we can make it seem to automatic
mantle is from god, not man

and also refer the who was president AFTER joseph smith

one more also, must be sure to not confuse Prophet with President.

Do all the keys rest with the 12 (+3) or just the president of the 12?

[Fiannancaptain of 1,000]

Brother Ferguson busy at work at secret LDS intelligence center spying on LDS Freedom Forum participants and having dropped disk with all of AussieOi and ithink's forum posts for 2012:

[Markcaptain of 1,000]

We don't do that anymore? Boy thats news to me. I have always thought every Presiding High Priest from Pres. Monson on down was in fact chosen from the body of high priests. What did I miss? Were there any Presiding High Priests not chosen from the body of the existing high priests of their time?

C'mon Mark, you know the Pres is always chosen from the Apostles. The instruction to do that is right there in D&C... well, it is in ... .I thought it was.... oh heck, it's now a tradition. I'll look up the scripture to support your view when they write it. As it is, the next Pres will be the Pres of the Qof12. It always is, and will remain so, until the Corporation Sole of the President is dissolved. And until that happens, the Pres will not be chosen from the body of HP from the Church, but from the Qof12 only. That counts you and me out buddy, although technically we should be in the running. And of course, and Apostle is not a HP, he is an Apostle, and he is not both.

Wowzer! I think I am starting to understand why you think the way you think ithink. You need to go read section 107 in the worst way. Pay particular attention to verses 21-24 and verses 64-66. I hope someday you will come to realize that Priesthood govt today is directed by the Lord Jesus Christ and He truly is the chief cornerstone of it all. (Ephesians 2:19-20)

The presiding councils of the church are not directed by a bunch of uninspired corporate yes men who just do things for their own benefit and aggrandizement. They are servants of the Lord who function through direct revelation from on high and continue to righteously preside in their stewardships given them. They are not perfect men but they operate in all righteousness according to the revelations given them by the Lord.

The selection of the Presiding High Priest is done under the power of revelation and is not just done by uninspired tradition or habit. The instructions given by the Lord in section 107 are followed and all things are done according to His will. The Lord is in charge and He will continue to direct the affairs of his Kingdom here on earth through righteous and faithful Priesthood holders called by Him through direct revelation to preside. That faith and conviction in priesthood power and authority and stewardship rights will be required of all who want to abide the day of his coming.

[minganocaptain of 1,000]

but i dont think we can make it seem to automatic mantle is from god, not man

ETB explicitly stated that the process is immediate: when the heart stops beating (his words) the mantle immediately settles upon the senior apostle.

Do all the keys rest with the 12 (+3) or just the president of the 12?

All 15 have all keys, but the power to activate and use those keys at his sole discretion rests only with the President.

[Thinkercaptain of 100]

What happens if you know that what you know to be right in your heart is wrong?

God gave us a brain to use & the light of Christ to sense spiritually.
We need to use BOTH.
Often emotional interpretations are interpreted as spirit (either positive feelings or negative feelings).
Study it out in your minds & then pray.
"As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he." (Thinking & feeling are interconnected.)
They say that God works by 3 ways: Thought, Feeling & Will (free agency)... like the wizard of oz, brain, heart & courage.

Also remember some basics to hold everything up to, in deciphering truth/Godliness...
God is love, light & truth, not darkness & not secrecy.
The 2 greatest commandments are to love God (& as we love others, we love God) & to love others as ourselves, "... on these 2 commandments hang all the law & the PROPHETS." -Matt 22:40