When has the U.S. helped aid other Countries

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

When haven't we? A better question to ask is what countries haven't we helped. Almost everyone IE France and many others hate our country> They never repaid American for rescuing their sorry rear ends during WWII and rebuilding their countries.

We're still doing it and they hate us! makes absolutely no sense to me.

Our country has aided every other country in the world at one time or another. We even help our enemies, when Iran had earthquakes a few years ago, we were there to help. When the tsunami hit we even helped out those people wearing Osama bin Laden t-shirts.

We contributed massively to the post WWII rebuilding effort in both Europe and Japan.

The US gives billions of dollars annually in aid to other countries, provides humanitarian support, forgives the debt of other countries and lends troops in times of military conflict (which shouldn't be confused with invading another country, such as Iraq).

The world’s richest person, Bill Gates, has said, “With great wealth comes a responsibility…to help those most in need.” Leading by example, he contributed a large portion of his wealth to charity. Contributions from wealthy Americans in general increased from $4.3 billion made in 2005 to $48.5 billion in 2006. In a similar manner, wealthy persons worldwide have announced other generous contributions.

The reason America helps other countries is because that's first of all the right thing to do. The other reason is, because America is a kind generation, and nation and that is also why God has helped it to rise and be one of the best and most recognized country.

A Great Nation!

[believercaptain of 100]

Juliette---

Amen to what you said.


Believer

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

[Fairmindedcaptain of 1,000]

As a fun exercise sometime, look at who U.S. foreign aid goes to as opposed to who needs it. It quickly becomes obvious that the majority of foreign aid looks a lot like bribes to the people in power in other countries to get them to do what we want.

[jeanpierrecaptain of 100]

My awakening began when I learned in 1949 that the United States had shut off aid to the Nationalist Chinese during the Chinese Civil War because the Nationalists would not accept a coalition government with the Communist Chinese, and that a tremendous amount of money and aid in other forms had been and was still being given to the Soviet Union.

I don't suppose the fact that foreign aid is a violation of the U.S. Constitution means anything to many of you.

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

My awakening began when I learned in 1949 that the United States had shut off aid to the Nationalist Chinese during the Chinese Civil War because the Nationalists would not accept a coalition government with the Communist Chinese, and that a tremendous amount of money and aid in other forms had been and was still being given to the Soviet Union.

I don't suppose the fact that foreign aid is a violation of the U.S. Constitution means anything to many of you.

Generosity is in no way demanded or required by our Constitution or laws, yet it is an inherent part of America's cultural fabric. Compared to the rest of the world, American benevolence is unmatched. China, which boasts the second largest economy in the world, is one of the least generous nations on Earth when it comes to charitable contributions.


Its the right thing to do jeanpierre. The " letter of the law, or the spirit of the law". When a typhus outbreak occurs
in the impoverished nation, and we can afford and have the knowledge to help them, should we? When African children are going blind from lack
of vitamin K, or because of measles, and we have the vaccine, do we help them?
We are the kind of Nation who will rebuild the country who attacked us and forced our hand. Japan.

A child collects empty bottles of water to sell in Sanaa, Yemen, in February. One-third of Yemen’s population is going hungry, 500,000 children are reportedly at risk of dying of malnutrition, and 45 percent of the population lives on less than $2 a day.

“The United States is going to have a very important role in trying to help Yemen undertake the necessary reforms as well to provide the assistance that’s going to allow them to move forward economically,” says Gerald Feierstein, US ambassador to Yemen, in an interview.

The critics of the American capitalist system are many, but when disaster strikes, the world still turns to America. One thinks most recently of Japan and Haiti. Not only did the United States send hundreds of millions of dollars in aid, but it also sent troops, food, water and medical supplies. We remember the moving picture of "Thank you USA" etched in the mud next to a rescue helicopter landing circle in Japan.

In surveys taken around the world, the United States is most popular in Africa, a continent we've given billions of dollars to help fight AIDS, starvation and other diseases. But we also donate more than money (and the U.S. foreign aid budget is the topic of much debate, and rightfully so). Generations of Americans have sacrificed their lives to fight and die for freedom around the world.

In the annals of human history, there has never been a country as compassionate and generous as the United States. When Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the great Russian novelist who defied communism, visited America, he said, "The United States has long shown itself to be the most magnanimous, the most generous country in the world. Wherever there is a flood, an earthquake, a fire, a natural disaster, an epidemic, who is the first to help? The United States. Who helps the most and unselfishly? The United States."

[jonesdecaptain of 1,000]

My awakening began when I learned in 1949 that the United States had shut off aid to the Nationalist Chinese during the Chinese Civil War because the Nationalists would not accept a coalition government with the Communist Chinese, and that a tremendous amount of money and aid in other forms had been and was still being given to the Soviet Union.

I don't suppose the fact that foreign aid is a violation of the U.S. Constitution means anything to many of you.

Generosity is in no way demanded or required by our Constitution or laws, yet it is an inherent part of America's cultural fabric. Compared to the rest of the world, American benevolence is unmatched. China, which boasts the second largest economy in the world, is one of the least generous nations on Earth when it comes to charitable contributions.

When someone takes money by force from one person to give to another, it is not generosity... it is a deceptive form of theft. This is what the US Federal Govt does with foreign aid. You don't see politicians standing up and creating an "office pool" to give to someone in need, you see them forcing others to pay for what they think is important, or what will benefit them politically.

Notice how so many wealthy people say "yes, please make me pay more in taxes" or "yes, I would be happy to pay more taxes". That is a subtle deception because they are not saying they want to voluntarily give more to the government, they are saying that they want the government to take more from more people and if that means they personally have to pay a bit more then they are fine with it. It's not generosity, it's a subtly deceptive form of stealing from neighbors for a cause they think is important.

The mainstream media and government PR about foreign aid is quite ridiculous. In a developed nation like Japan there probably was some real help, but in Haiti the word on the ground was that the money, food, and supplies went disproportionately to govt folks and their families and friends, and the people most severely affected by the earthquakes got little or no help. The result is their local oppressive government is strengthened.

In Latin America most foreign aid is used for political purposes. One example you run into all the time down there is free food from foreign aid that is stamped with the campaign logo of whatever politician is lucky enough to be charged with distributing it. In Africa there are many cases of local leaders charged with distributing foreign aid using it to feed their armies and even to buy arms to kill or oppress and control their people.

The USA is the biggest giver of foreign aid in the world, but that's not a good thing. That is a bunch of politicians stealing from people here and using it as part of their PR and campaigning to preserve their political power. That is a government that represents the biggest empire in world history, but one that does not run through direct control. This empire runs on the greed of people in power in foreign governments making it easy for the US Govt to buy them off in creative ways that can't be called "corruption" but nevertheless makes those local leaders and their families and friends extremely wealthy at the expense of the people in their countries. Along with the IMF and World Bank and the UN it is part of a program of oppression and control of the entire world.

A good book on this topic (one of MANY) is "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins. As much as any I've read it does a great job of summing up this global domination pattern without a literal military empire (or without it unless all other control techniques fail, as recently in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, etc, etc, etc and historically in Panama, Iran, and so many other places).

[jonesdecaptain of 1,000]

This reminds of the argument that the USA is virtuous because after destroying a country through war the US Govt invests so much in rebuilding the nation.

There is no virtue or generosity in it. Both the killing and the "rebuilding" (often things that are useless to the survivors, but great for local politicians) are excuses to tax and spend, or borrow/inflate and spend.

Empires in the past wanted to extract wealth from nations they conquered. The modern economic pattern turns this on its head so that people in other countries are intentionally kept poor so we can get certain things cheaply from them while building the US economy so that the government with power to tax it can become the biggest and best funded government in the WORLD.

It isn't virtuous or generous at all, it is just a different form of oppression and control and theft than used in past empires like the Roman or British empires.

[Spencecaptain of 1,000]

The Book of Mormon narrative is a chronicle of nations long since gone. But in its descriptions of the problems of today's society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems.

I know of no other writing which sets forth with such clarity the tragic consequences to societies that follow courses contrary to the commandments of God. Its pages trace the stories of two distinct civilizations that flourished on the Western Hemisphere. Each began as a small nation, its people walking in the fear of the Lord. But with prosperity came growing evils. The people succumbed to the wiles of ambitious and scheming leaders who oppressed them with burdensome taxes, who lulled them with hollow promises, who countenanced and even encouraged loose and lascivious living. These evil schemers led the people into terrible wars that resulted in the death of millions and the final and total extinction of two great civilizations in two different eras.

No other written testament so clearly illustrates the fact that when men and nations walk in the fear of God and in obedience to His commandments, they prosper and grow, but when they disregard Him and His word, there comes a decay that, unless arrested by righteousness, leads to impotence and death. The Book of Mormon is an affirmation of the Old Testament proverb: "Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people"

- GBH


I wonder why Mormon gave us the pages he did of the Jaredites and Nephites who lived in the same place we do, who came as pilgrims to this land, in wooden vessels, sailing across the ocean blue not in 1492?

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

My awakening began when I learned in 1949 that the United States had shut off aid to the Nationalist Chinese during the Chinese Civil War because the Nationalists would not accept a coalition government with the Communist Chinese, and that a tremendous amount of money and aid in other forms had been and was still being given to the Soviet Union.

I don't suppose the fact that foreign aid is a violation of the U.S. Constitution means anything to many of you.

Generosity is in no way demanded or required by our Constitution or laws, yet it is an inherent part of America's cultural fabric. Compared to the rest of the world, American benevolence is unmatched. China, which boasts the second largest economy in the world, is one of the least generous nations on Earth when it comes to charitable contributions.

When someone takes money by force from one person to give to another, it is not generosity... it is a deceptive form of theft. This is what the US Federal Govt does with foreign aid. You don't see politicians standing up and creating an "office pool" to give to someone in need, you see them forcing others to pay for what they think is important, or what will benefit them politically.

Notice how so many wealthy people say "yes, please make me pay more in taxes" or "yes, I would be happy to pay more taxes". That is a subtle deception because they are not saying they want to voluntarily give more to the government, they are saying that they want the government to take more from more people and if that means they personally have to pay a bit more then they are fine with it. It's not generosity, it's a subtly deceptive form of stealing from neighbors for a cause they think is important.

The mainstream media and government PR about foreign aid is quite ridiculous. In a developed nation like Japan there probably was some real help, but in Haiti the word on the ground was that the money, food, and supplies went disproportionately to govt folks and their families and friends, and the people most severely affected by the earthquakes got little or no help. The result is their local oppressive government is strengthened.

In Latin America most foreign aid is used for political purposes. One example you run into all the time down there is free food from foreign aid that is stamped with the campaign logo of whatever politician is lucky enough to be charged with distributing it. In Africa there are many cases of local leaders charged with distributing foreign aid using it to feed their armies and even to buy arms to kill or oppress and control their people.

The USA is the biggest giver of foreign aid in the world, but that's not a good thing. That is a bunch of politicians stealing from people here and using it as part of their PR and campaigning to preserve their political power. That is a government that represents the biggest empire in world history, but one that does not run through direct control. This empire runs on the greed of people in power in foreign governments making it easy for the US Govt to buy them off in creative ways that can't be called "corruption" but nevertheless makes those local leaders and their families and friends extremely wealthy at the expense of the people in their countries. Along with the IMF and World Bank and the UN it is part of a program of oppression and control of the entire world.

A good book on this topic (one of MANY) is "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins. As much as any I've read it does a great job of summing up this global domination pattern without a literal military empire (or without it unless all other control techniques fail, as recently in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, etc, etc, etc and historically in Panama, Iran, and so many other places).

Almost exactly what I was going to say. Especially the first sentence sums it all up - taking money from others by force, and giving it to others, even IF done for altruistic motives is not charity it is theft. And when you then look at the motives and ask "Cui bono?" (Who benefits?) It's pretty clear that most if not all GOVERNMENT aid to foreign countries has little to do with alleviating suffering and often funds suffering.

I am ALL FOR organizations that take VOLUNTARY donations to help disaster victims and others suffering around the world. And to that extent I agree with Julliette - America is one of the most generous nations in the world. But tax dollars that go to foreign aid - please, don't sing me the praises of the "benevolent" United States...it's a "precious illusion" that you are being deceived by.

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

OK, This is a worthless Nation who has never done anything right. The politicians have always been corrupt, oh except of course for our founding fathers who wrote the Constitution.
All my life I have wished that I spoke German, because we should have never gone in and worried about Hitler. OH, and I think Japanese is a nice language also..
I understand what you are saying. But can't we give any credit to this great Nation. America is worth fighting for even if its wrong.

[awar_ecaptain of 100]

The paradigms that several generations have been born into are the result of the amazing success of the use of govt propaganda to alter the thinking of most people.
Secrfet Combinations have been actively in force since a couple of months before the Declaration of Independence was written. Some research on the origin of the May Day celebration will help people to understand this.
Many of these disease epidemics that we so benevolently step forth to alleviate were born in laboratories to cause exactly what the result is. Population reduction, and a "need" for intervention in other govts where corporate interests are able to gain control of resources previously denied them.
This has become so common place for so many years, that I am surprised that it is not common knowledge by now.
There are those among us who still believe the UN to be a benevolent organization. Obviously they have not delved into their written plans which are open for all to see.

[jonesdecaptain of 1,000]

OK, This is a worthless Nation who has never done anything right. The politicians have always been corrupt, oh except of course for our founding fathers who wrote the Constitution.
All my life I have wished that I spoke German, because we should have never gone in and worried about Hitler. OH, and I think Japanese is a nice language also..
I understand what you are saying. But can't we give any credit to this great Nation. America is worth fighting for even if its wrong.

If by "Nation" you mean the US Federal Govt, then to some extent that statement is true. It has done very little to protect rights of the people of the nation or make the world a more peaceful place.

If by "Nation" you mean the people of the United States, that is a different story. You might say the govt and the people are the same, but that is far from true and is a deception government folks use to avoid accountability. The government in our country is a small subset of the population, or at least the decision making bodies. Unfortunately the percent of the population that works for these decision makers directly or indirectly is now well over half the population. We are a nation of mostly good people who have been seriously deceived by politicians who want ever increasing power and ever decreasing accountability.

As for World War II... the ideas you mention are a popular part of pro-war propaganda (mostly in conservative camps, and especially on conservative talk radio). Historically these ideas do NOT hold up.

In terms of destruction done to the German military to end their ability to wage war, Russia did far more on the Ostfront than the Great Britain and the USA ever did from the west. There is a lot of propaganda about the US Military winning World War II, and the USA certainly played a major part in that war, but it was far from the only player on the field and especially concerning Germany joined the war late in the game after other nations had already done far more damage and lost far more people. Some have estimated that Great Britain and Russia could have ended the war without US boots on the ground, and by the time the USA arrived in Germany the Russian army had been there for a bit... though not in nearly as nice as way... that seems to be very true. Dan Carlin's program "Ghosts of the Ostfront" (nearly 6 hours of audio, available for free download) covers this part of it pretty well.

Japan never got close to the USA, and even at its military peak did not have near the army or navy that would be required to attempt a land invasion, let alone a successful one. The battle was mostly over resources and political influence on the west side of the Pacific Ocean, not the east side. A good case in point for this was the atrocity and war crime of using nuclear weapons to attack Japan. Before this Japan had already surrendered, but with terms that preserved their government. This was not acceptable to the USA who wanted complete surrender and a new form of government for the country... so Truman ordered one of the greatest atrocities of World War II (which is impressive considering what Germany and Russia had done during the war) and the only use of nuclear weapons on cities so far in history. No terrorist or despot has ever dared to do so much. Only a government that believes in moral superiority and therefore exceptions to morality, and over a people that believed the same, could ever get away with such a thing.

I'm sure that many people involved in such things had intentions to help and really thought they were helping. Over 60 years later we now have the benefit of seeing the results of involvement in these and other wars since then. How has it worked out for the world? Is it like what politicians promised at the time? How much ease and prosperity have we enjoyed because of the nefarious acts of our government around the rest of the world?

This is a great country and has the potential to be great and do great things. It is also the greatest concentration of wealth and power currently in the world, and that is a tool sought after for evil purposes by Satan and his followers, and those deceived by them. Unfortunately in spite of its foundation in a lot good it has been used for a lot of evil, and it is important that we understand that and do something about it.

As for the founding fathers... some of them were absolutely corrupt and desired a high level of centralized government. Hamilton's view on government were highly corrupt, though I think even he would be impressed by the level of fascism our modern Federal government has achieved.

[awar_ecaptain of 100]

Kissinger’s 1974 Plan for Food Control Genocide

by Joseph Brewda
Dec. 8, 1995

On Dec. 10, 1974, the U.S. National Security Council under Henry Kissinger completed a classified 200-page study, “National Security Study Memorandum 200: Implications of Worldwide Population Growth for U.S. Security and Overseas Interests.” The study falsely claimed that population growth in the so-called Lesser Developed Countries (LDCs) was a grave threat to U.S. national security. Adopted as official policy in November 1975 by President Gerald Ford, NSSM 200 outlined a covert plan to reduce population growth in those countries through birth control, and also, implicitly, war and famine. Brent Scowcroft, who had by then replaced Kissinger as national security adviser (the same post Scowcroft was to hold in the Bush administration), was put in charge of implementing the plan. CIA Director George Bush was ordered to assist Scowcroft, as were the secretaries of state, treasury, defense, and agriculture.

[lost arkcaptain of 100]

I echo the recommendation to read "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man."

However, President Benson is a bit more succinct. And speaks with greater authority.

“There is one and only one legitimate goal of United States foreign policy. It is a narrow goal, a nationalistic goal: the preservation of our national independence. Nothing in the Constitution grants that the president shall have the privilege of offering himself as a world leader. He is our executive; he is on our payroll; he is supposed to put our best interests in front of those of other nations. Nothing in the Constitution nor in logic grants to the president of the United States or to Congress the power to influence the political life of other countries, to ‘uplift’ their cultures, to bolster their economies, to feed their people, or even to defend them against their enemies.” Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p 614.

The American people have a great record of generosity and charity. The US Federal Government has no business, no authority, to be generous with our money.

[ktgcaptain of 100]

The socialistic and communistic tendencies of our citizens, whether they come about because of misguided good intentions not unlike the 1/3 who were cast out, or deception by propaganda, has been at least a large contributor to the problems our country sees today. The prophets have told us the correct path. Wake up!

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

Trying to slap myself awake..

[LateOutOfBedcaptain of 100]

I echo the recommendation to read "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man."

However, President Benson is a bit more succinct. And speaks with greater authority.

“There is one and only one legitimate goal of United States foreign policy. It is a narrow goal, a nationalistic goal: the preservation of our national independence. Nothing in the Constitution grants that the president shall have the privilege of offering himself as a world leader. He is our executive; he is on our payroll; he is supposed to put our best interests in front of those of other nations. Nothing in the Constitution nor in logic grants to the president of the United States or to Congress the power to influence the political life of other countries, to ‘uplift’ their cultures, to bolster their economies, to feed their people, or even to defend them against their enemies.” Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p 614.

The American people have a great record of generosity and charity. The US Federal Government has no business, no authority, to be generous with our money.

Ezra Taft Benson was an awesome man! His quotes, moreso than any other prophet, has lead to my awakening. I really appreciate a lot of what J. Rueben Clark had to say on these topics as well. Thank you for sharing that one and reminding me of so many of the great things many of our prophets have said in our day about what the limitations of our government should be.

-- Geoff

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

OK, This is a worthless Nation who has never done anything right. The politicians have always been corrupt, oh except of course for our founding fathers who wrote the Constitution.
All my life I have wished that I spoke German, because we should have never gone in and worried about Hitler. OH, and I think Japanese is a nice language also..
I understand what you are saying. But can't we give any credit to this great Nation. America is worth fighting for even if its wrong.

I'd say it's worth fighting to correct.

You seem to be of the impression that I hate my own country and that absolutely isn;t the case. I think the U.S. is a special country that has been set aside for most amazing blessings, but also associated with those blessings are cursings if we do not follow the Savior. And what I hate are those that are driving this country towards those cursings, and the truly frustrating thing about that is that they could not do so if a majority or even a large minority would wake up. It's not about always dragging down the country, but it also means not drinking the Kool-Aid. You realize that your OP would have made a perfectly acceptable presidential speech for Obama or the Republican flavor of the week. It's a cheerleading charade, meaningless pablum said for it's emotional response much more than whether it has anything to do with fact.

I really hate to even try to wake you up, you are obviously having such pleasant dreams.


edit: and then I read this -

Trying to slap myself awake..

You're a good egg, Juliette. I truly do wish it would be better for you to remain in the matrix - it is so much more pleasant than facing up to some harsh realities.

[believercaptain of 100]

Wow OI. Why don't you just slap her in the face?!!

[awar_ecaptain of 100]

The entire church remains under condemnation. The Lord may do a wholesale face slapping soon.

[7cylon7captain of 1,000]

You are ignorant... meaning you are in need of some facts. The US does not AID anyone. They take over. AID comes with strings attached. Aid is used to suppress freedom and keep the dictators that the US wants in line.

"How do we economic hit men work?"
1st We identify a third world cntry that has resources our Corps cut at, like Oil.
2nd We give a huge loan thru World Bankers to Big Corps to build structure.
3rd We leave them holding a huge debt.
Once they're in debt...
A) We (hit men) will negotiate for OIL, votes, or troops in support of ours.
B) We send in the Jackals to overthrow the Govt, or assisinate the leader.
C) When A & B fail, we send the Military.

Please watch this and get some understanding.

This is not even the best documentary out there. This is a much better one where he really goes into deep detail on how WE do this. But please take 20 min out of your life and watch this. I know you are just ignorant of the real facts. I learned this years ago and I have to remember that some of us are still on milk and maybe not ready for meat.

[Original_Intentcaptain of 1,000]

We need to be more gentle in our education. I was accused of verbally slapping Juliette around, and I was trying to be nice.

We are not going to wake people up if when we introduce them to the truth we start out by making them feel two inches tall.

I think Juliette is truly desiring the truth. That's all that matters. That's rare, most are so emotionally attached to their "precious illusions" that they don;t even want to know the truth. They WANT the matrix because the matrix is a happy, upbeat place.

I think we should provide the wake up materials but be a little nicer about presenting it and remember that almost all of us have been in the position of being asleep. Did you find the waking up process enjoyable? I felt like I was going to puke for at least 6 months when I was first really awakended (by reading an Enemy Hath Done This by Ezra Taft Benson).

I wasn't trying to be harsh. And I am trying to show Juliette that hating the gadiantons who have seized control of our government is not hatred of the nation, in fact it is motivated out of love for the nation.

We need all the allies we can get as quickly as we can get them. We are shooting ourselves in the foot if we ridicule or are mean to anyone who starts to investigate. Certainly the OP was very naive, and like I said it could have been a presidential speech being regurgitated...I mentioned this to try to show her that she was responding to programming, not to make her feel bad. If we can avoid chasing her from wanting to learn, I am confident that she is going to do just fine. Let's be a little more welcoming, and to the extent that I was belittling I apologize. It wasn;t my intent. But sometimes I do get a little zealous to help someone wake up - sometimes a glass of ice water does the trick, but sometimes it just ticks the recipient off.

[lundbaekcaptain of 1,000]

"America has a destiny--a destiny to conquer the world--not by force of arms....a conquest that shall bring, through the workings of our owm example, the blessings of freedom and liberty to every people....in a reign of peace to which we shall lead all others by the persuasion of our own righteous example. - Excerpted from a talk by President J. Reuben Clark, 24 February 1944, Los Angeles, California, See "A Glorious Standard For All Mankind" by CS Bentley, Pg. 152

"The U.S. Constitution was God's order of things for the government of men, and it should roll forth to fill the whole earth. - Melvin J. Ballard, October 1918 General Conference, See "A Glorious Standard For All Mankind" by CS Bentley, Pg. 151

From these two statements, from D&C 101:77, D&C 109:54, and from certain other statements by latter-day prophets and apostles, I conclude that the Lord would have like for members of His Church to have espoused and promoted the principles of the US Constitution to an extent that, with His help, they would have flourished in America and served as an example that people in other nations would have wanted and even clamoured for, and ultimately achieved in their own lands.

Instead, however, over the years the large majority of LDS voters have, thru neglect and/or promotion of unconstitutional initiatives, legislation and government programs, contributed to the discarding of the principles of the US Constitution to an extent that without a major "cleansing of America" by the Lord there seems to be no way the principles of the original US Constitution can be introduced to the people in other lands.

So instead of the Lord's blueprint of government being exported to other nations, political persuasions have been and still are being imported into America that are surely abhorrent to the Lord and should be abhorrent to all members of His Church.

[Juliettecaptain of 1,000]

Wow OI. Why don't you just slap her in the face?!!

Thanks for standing up for me believe! I take a lickin and keep on tickin!
This forum is mostly people of the same mindset. I'm sure if I had some back-up, there would be some great arguments.
I get private messages occassionally telling me to keep up the good work. They feel like I do, but don't want to engage
these arguments, because you get called ignorant etc.
I try not to take it personally because I like all these people. Therefore, I don't let it run me off.

I didn't appreciate Orig's negative comment on the friendship post. Why not leave it alone sometimes and just be friends?
Oh well, I know they like me no matter how heated it gets. ( I hope)

[awar_ecaptain of 100]

We need to be more gentle in our education. I was accused of verbally slapping Juliette around, and I was trying to be nice.

We are not going to wake people up if when we introduce them to the truth we start out by making them feel two inches tall.

I think Juliette is truly desiring the truth. That's all that matters. That's rare, most are so emotionally attached to their "precious illusions" that they don;t even want to know the truth. They WANT the matrix because the matrix is a happy, upbeat place.

I think we should provide the wake up materials but be a little nicer about presenting it and remember that almost all of us have been in the position of being asleep. Did you find the waking up process enjoyable? I felt like I was going to puke for at least 6 months when I was first really awakended (by reading an Enemy Hath Done This by Ezra Taft Benson).

I wasn't trying to be harsh. And I am trying to show Juliette that hating the gadiantons who have seized control of our government is not hatred of the nation, in fact it is motivated out of love for the nation.

We need all the allies we can get as quickly as we can get them. We are shooting ourselves in the foot if we ridicule or are mean to anyone who starts to investigate. Certainly the OP was very naive, and like I said it could have been a presidential speech being regurgitated...I mentioned this to try to show her that she was responding to programming, not to make her feel bad. If we can avoid chasing her from wanting to learn, I am confident that she is going to do just fine. Let's be a little more welcoming, and to the extent that I was belittling I apologize. It wasn;t my intent. But sometimes I do get a little zealous to help someone wake up - sometimes a glass of ice water does the trick, but sometimes it just ticks the recipient off.

The main problem I have, is that it has taken me most of 40 years to assimilate my core knowledge of our situation.
Neither I nor the nation as a whole has 30 years left to learn about and reverse things. This frustrates me to no end, especially when I see people within 10 or 20 years of my age, refusing to even consider that the political system has been taken over by the minions of satan. Without this being understood and SOON, how can we save any freedoms?

It would take me about 3 entire pages to list the freedoms I have seen taken in my lifetime. Obviously those who are even 10 years younger have no first hand knowledge of a nation at war, when we fought gadianton wars to win. Since the UN was formed, wars have never been fought to win. Both Korea and Viet Nam were attrition exercises where land that was taken one day, was abandoned so more could die in re-taking it. The movie Pork Chop Hill, I think covered this aspect.

Someone once said, that it is not what you do not know that is the problem. The problem is what you do know, that simply is not true.
Today we are faced with many levels of understanding of what is true, and that which is believed to be true, but isn't.
How do we correct this situation, with kindness which most will understand, and do it quickly enough to make a difference in the short time we have left? Although my remaining time is short, I suspect that the nation has an even shorter time left to make a choice of who or what to follow. Politicians would be way down my list as the prophets have given directions for decades, besides the BoM is filled with historical accounts of what happens to this land when the gadiantons take over.
Even Gordon B Hinckley announced that they are in our midst now.

[7cylon7captain of 1,000]

This one is more detailed.

[7cylon7captain of 1,000]

now instead of the so called third world... it is happening in GREECE, Italy, spain, ireland... and soon the USA. All natural resources will be sold off and we the people left in utter poverty.

[awar_ecaptain of 100]

Fred Reed is a long time war correspondent and former US Marine who actually has lived in several countries, and now resides in Mexico by choice. His articles are clear and to the point, but possibly not PC enough for most people these days. Since I pre-date the PC world by a few decades, his words ring true to me, possibly more than others might like.
His past articles can be found here
http://www.fredoneverything.net/RecedingTide.shtml
and they are free to subscribe to. He writes from a passion for freedom which he once knew in this nation and he desires that truth can still be taught. His explanation of what was taught in Marine boot camp was covered in a recent e-mail and is quite worth reading for those who support current wars. Many of his archived letters are worth reading, but like the rest of us, if he is out of sorts at the moment , it will show up in his writings. All in all, his words are a better education about the world than any school will present.


The Receding Tide
Becoming Uzbekistan
March 26, 2012

Several things characterize countries of the Third Word, whatever precisely "Third World" means.
The first is corruption. America is rotten with it, but American corruption is distinct from corruption in, say, Guatemala or Thailand, being less visible and better organized.

Several major differences exist between the usual corruption in the Third World and that in America. In most of the Third World, corruption exists from top to bottom. Everyone and everything is for sale. Bribery amounts to an economic system, like capitalism or socialism. By contrast, in the United States, graft flourishes mostly at the level of government and commerce. You don’t (I think) slip an admissions official at Harvard twenty grand to accept your shiftless and dull-witted slug of a misbegotten offspring. Nor do you pay a local judge to drop dope charges against your teenager. And in the Guatemalas and Egypts of the planet, corruption tends to be personal. The briber and the bribed act as individuals.

In the United States, corruption occurs at the level of policy and contracts, between corporations, special interests, and Congress. It is done gracefully and usually legally. For example, Big Pharma pays Congress to insert, in some voluminous bill that almost no one will read, a clause saying that the government will pay list price for drugs instead of negotiating for a better price. Over time, this is worth hundreds of millions, paid by you. Yet the clause is legal. Or military industry pays Congress to buy an enormously expensive and unneeded airplane. It’s legal. Read the bill. Or agribusiness pays Congress to cough up large subsidies. Also legal.

In Mexico you pay your useless daughter’s useless teacher to give her grades she didn’t earn so that she can get into university. Corruption relies on individual initiative. By contrast, in America, corruption is a class-action industry. Large groups—blacks, women, Indians, unions—bribe or intimidate Congress into giving them special privilege: affirmative action, racial and gender set-asides, casinos, loans and preferences from the Small Business Administration according to sex and ethnicity. Corruption, plain and simple. But legal.

Second, unaccountable and often intrusive police not subject to control by the public. In America formal police departments rapidly grow more militarized, jack-booted, swatted-out, and their powers grow. A law-abiding citizen should never be afraid of the police, and a misbehaving cop should worry intensely when said law-abiding citizen records his badge number with intent to call the chief. Those days are over. Today the cops can bully, threaten, and harass, and there is precious little you can do about it. The proliferating laws against filming the police can have only one purpose, to prevent exposure of misbehavior. Third World.

Any organization involved in controlling a population is a de factor police outfit, as are TSA, “Homeland Security,” the FBI, NSA, ICE, and so on. Against none of these does the citizen have any recourse. In principle, yes, but in practice, no. Third World, but far more efficient.

Third, lack of constitutional government. This is not the same as the lack of a constitution. The Soviet Union had an admirable constitution, and paid no attention to it. America heads rapidly in the same direction.

In America, the Constitution is largely and increasingly ignored by the government. Constitutionally the three branches of government are co-equal, but in practice the Supreme Court is of little consequence and Congress is the action arm of a corporate oligarchy. Constitutionally Congress must declare war, but now the president sends combat troops wherever he pleases and Congress reads about it in the Washington Post. The president can order citizens murdered, ignore habeas corpus, monitor and store email. The government can search you at will with no pretense of probable cause. Third World.

Fourth, impunity. In the bush world, the rich and powerful are never brought to trail regardless of their crimes. We are there. Wall Street runs a clear and thoroughly documented scam, the subprime-loan racket, doing immense damage to the country. How many went to jail? How many were tried? How many now have high positions in the federal government? Third World.

Fifth, a yawning gap between rich and poor. As the American economy declines, the middle class sags into the lower middle class. The sag takes many forms. Prices rise but incomes don’t. Houses go into foreclosure. Student loans tied to the houses of parents become backbreaking. Businesses hire people as individual contractors, with no benefits. Increasingly the young live with their parents. The ship is taking water.

Yet the rich prosper. In America they carefully remain inconspicuous, not flaunting their money. But they have it. Third World.

Sixth, a controlled press. Many Americans I suspect will insist that the press is free, because they are repeatedly told that it is, because they have nothing to which to compare it, and because the control is most adroitly managed. But it exists.

In America control does not work as it did in the USSR, by savagely punishing the least expression of undesired ideas; this would be obvious and arouse opposition. American control works on the principle of fooling enough of the people, enough of the time.

Strictly speaking, the US does have a free press. You can easily buy the books of David Duke, Karl Marx, Hitler, or Malcolm X. The trick is that few read. Television and newspapers rule, and they are owned by large corporations concerned with furthering the interests of large corporations.

Those interests are maximizing the viewership for advertising, which is where the money comes from; keeping the lid on in a country in which various groups would be at each other’s throats if demagogues were allowed to provide the spark; keeping corporations from suffering any sort of control, and furthering the political agendas of the media.

Thus you never, ever, allow serious criticism of Israel, and you never, ever, allow an articulate Palestinian to offer his views. You do not allow any coverage of crime by blacks, which might lead to social upheaval. You do not allow distressing reportage of the wars—a little girl looking in puzzlement at her bowels hanging out thanks to shrapnel. You do not do any serious investigative reporting of corporate corruption. And so on. Keep it bland. Keep it reassuring.

Don’t let, say, a cop talk about what really goes on, or a GI to talk about what soldiers really do in Afghanistan, and don’t let political debates touch on substance. Don’t allow, for example, unrehearsed questions: “Mr. Santorum, can you name in order the countries that border on Iran?” Oh no. One mustn’t reveal to the voters that neither they nor the candidates know what they are talking about. Better to maintain the illusion of Informed Citizens Engaging in Democracy.

Mexicans know what kind of government they have. Americans do not.

Here is his latest epistle which arrived today.

[ktgcaptain of 100]

"America has a destiny--a destiny to conquer the world--not by force of arms....a conquest that shall bring, through the workings of our owm example, the blessings of freedom and liberty to every people....in a reign of peace to which we shall lead all others by the persuasion of our own righteous example. - Excerpted from a talk by President J. Reuben Clark, 24 February 1944, Los Angeles, California, See "A Glorious Standard For All Mankind" by CS Bentley, Pg. 152

"The U.S. Constitution was God's order of things for the government of men, and it should roll forth to fill the whole earth. - Melvin J. Ballard, October 1918 General Conference, See "A Glorious Standard For All Mankind" by CS Bentley, Pg. 151

From these two statements, from D&C 101:77, D&C 109:54, and from certain other statements by latter-day prophets and apostles, I conclude that the Lord would have like for members of His Church to have espoused and promoted the principles of the US Constitution to an extent that, with His help, they would have flourished in America and served as an example that people in other nations would have wanted and even clamoured for, and ultimately achieved in their own lands.

Instead, however, over the years the large majority of LDS voters have, thru neglect and/or promotion of unconstitutional initiatives, legislation and government programs, contributed to the discarding of the principles of the US Constitution to an extent that without a major "cleansing of America" by the Lord there seems to be no way the principles of the original US Constitution can be introduced to the people in other lands.

So instead of the Lord's blueprint of government being exported to other nations, political persuasions have been and still are being imported into America that are surely abhorrent to the Lord and should be abhorrent to all members of His Church.

Agreed.

I think the time is very close upon us that there is no hope for restoring Constitutional government in the tradition of the founding fathers. You know why the great flood happened, right? Because there was no hope that the younger people would grow up in righteousness. Our time is coming quickly.