Who Has Experienced Baptism by Fire & Holy Ghost?

[Seeker]

Albarianotlink, thanks so much for your post.

And, Dickerson, thanks for yours too. Is there any way that you might care to elaborate?

Although I appreciate everyone's participation in the poll, I do wish more would be willing to share at least something about their experiences, and some form of testimony about this important doctrine.

Because so few have been willing to do that, I am going to share this account, that has been posted elsewhere. I may also post another, similar account that has also been posted elsewhere, that I think are very valuable in trying to help better understand the principles of this doctrine.

I share this sacred account of my "born again" experience only that it may help another in his or her search to "come unto Christ." (Moroni 10)

My quest for a difference in my life began in 1981. I knew there was more spiritually than I was getting through my church meetings. I was dissatisfied with my Sunday, only learning from other people, and began an in depth search of the scriptures. I read book after book, attended lectures, education weeks, and listened to devotionals. I had a hunger and thirst that could not be satisfied. I look back now and realize the yearnings I had were to lead me to the "mighty change.'' I was so inexperienced in spiritual things I kept thinking my yearnings would be satisfied by books and other people's ideas, rather than going to my Heavenly Father in prayer, and using the scriptures more.

The more I studied and learned with my head, deep in my heart I knew I knew nothing, especially about my Savior. There was more to the scriptures than stories and nice quotes, but they were sealed to me and they weren't the sealed portion!!! They were sealed because my eyes were blind and my ears were dull of hearing.

In 1986 President Benson gave a talk about the Church being under condemnation. I was part of that and it made me feel very uncomfortable. I didn't like being under condemnation from the Lord. This was the Lord's servant and mouthpiece and I took very literally what He said. I wanted that lifted off me, not just me but my family, friends, and everyone. My study intensified. Some days I studied more than others. We had several children during this time so my days were hectic, but I spent time daily in study and prayer.

In the fall of 1992, after unending locked doors in my spiritual searching, feeling like I almost had it, but because I lacked pieces so I had nothing, I heard a talk that held the key. I learned about the children of Israel and how they, like us, were under condemnation. I learned what they lacked was the willingness to let the Savior's gift work for them, they wanted to do it themselves (That explains the 600 plus commandments). The Savior's gift-The Atonement-How did that apply in my life? Where did I fit in all of this? I knew a lot about the gift in my head, but my heart did not understand.

I had some traumatic family events shortly after this that stripped me naked spiritually. There was nothing there. I felt like a stained glass window that had been pushed out of its frame and lay on the floor in hundreds of pieces. I had been studying for 12 years. I had much head learning, but my heart had barely been used. The mourning all but stopped my progress. I was numbed emotionally. I was in a survival mode. I had no extended family support, my friends all left, I was alone. What I knew in my head really didn't matter much. I learned how "nothing" we are without our Heavenly Father and His Son, our Redeemer. I knew what King Benjamin's message to his people about out "nothingness." (Mosiah 2)

In December of '93 I read a talk about prayer and overcoming false beliefs. I realized I didn't know how to pray. I had a lot of false beliefs caused by "traditions of the fathers and disobedience." (D&C 93:39)

For Christmas I received a copy of the book "Experiencing The Mighty Change." I read this book. So many bits and pieces I had studied were all put together under one cover. This book literally saved me 20 more years of study. As I read this book, I realized this was what the Spirit, the study, and all the experiences were driving me towards. I didn't know what "born again" was. As I read the Book of Mormon, I discovered it was all through that holy book. No wonder President Benson was pushing us to read that book. No wonder we were under condemnation. The scriptures began to open.

On December 2, I began my journey-the day I heard the prayer talk. I began to pray about my false beliefs, the Savior, my condemnation. Three weeks later, when I received the "Mighty Change" book, I began to pray about born again also. I also began to fast. I didn't know until I read Mighty Change that I didn't know how to fast either.

This journey was a very lonely one. At the time I knew of no one who had had the born again experience except an author of one of the books I read. I called him several times (long distance so the calls were brief) to make sure I was on track, to see if the feelings I was experiencing were normal and other things. He was so kind to me. I could feel his goodness over the phone line. He strengthened me and I will be forever grateful to him for his help. I struggled so much because the path hadn't been cleared and very few people were willing to speak to me about the subject. Now I know it was because of ignorance. We all have our own experience so it is a new path for each one. But I also feel to be strengthened by another is a great help during this most crucial and vulnerable time.

I decided I would fast every week. This was a challenge to me because I had blood sugar problems. I had to do it gradually but I now can fast a full 24 hours. Not only did I receive spiritual miracles, but physical miracles. What a blessing to have been healed from the blood sugar disorder I have been plagued with for years. What a wonderful blessing to participate in a true fast. It is a powerful testimony to me of the promises in Isaiah 58. Most important of all, the heavens were being opened to me.

I started getting up before my family every morning and start having "mighty prayer." I used to think a mighty prayer was five minutes. What a privilege it is to talk to our Father at the beginning of every day and feel of His love for me revelation about original experiences which set them in place and tutored from on high and healed. (Talk about counseling!!!) I was made aware of my sins which were caused from these false beliefs (these come from disobedience or traditions of our fathers-D&C 93). I was made aware of all my sins. . .aIl of them. I knew of the hurt I had caused others and the impediment upon my own growth. I saw myself as Christ can see us, all the cover-ups, the sneakiness, the honors of men syndrome, my condemnation of others, all my self righteousness and everything that was my carnal man.

It was necessary for me to get some unlayering done. These were layers that were blocking the Spirit from being in full fellowship with me. It took a while for me to get through this process. I know now it was because I was mourning the deaths of three close loved ones and my heart had to go through the process slowly. I would feel the Spirit, the cleansing and all that comes with this for 1 -2 hours a day, 3-4 days a week. My husband, on the other hand, went through it in a few days with no let up.

I felt mourning for my errors and sins. This part of the experience was not very fun. I was mourning because of the distance they had put between me and my God. The mourning was physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. It was literal gut wrenching mourning and sorrow.

One day, as I was studying about the Savior, I saw Him in Gethsemane. This was my Lord struggling over the sins of the world. Struggling over my sins. I saw Him see me. I saw Him see my life. He saw all my filth and unworthiness and said, "Yes!!! I will do it!!! I love her!!!" He bought me with His blood. He did this for each person. As I watched Him I thought my heart would break. I felt as though my chest would explode. I sobbed as I felt His love and compassion for me. I felt His holiness, His goodness, His strength, His truth, His mercy. These words seem hollow to use to describe Him. I couldn't bear to watch Him anymore. "Dear God" I cried, "Please, I cannot see this anymore." I saw Him in agony a while longer, then the vision closed. I lay on the floor exhausted from what I had just witnessed.

My new life began with a wash of peace that filled and warmed my entire being. It was a feeling of burning throughout my whole body-but a sweet burning. The voice of the Lord came to me and said, "Your sins are forgiven." I didn't want to move. I could feel the warmth, the love, the joy, the total peace. I had the same experience the next morning and again on Sunday during the sacrament. December 1 6, exactly 54 weeks from the beginning of the journey. I turned it all over to the Lord. All of it I gave Him and He made me His. I knew my life was acceptable to Him. I was a new creature. I was gratefully His.

All the rest of my false beliefs He took. He took my sins. He took the condemnation I felt for myself and thus for others. He took all judgement from my heart, all the have to be's and need to be's and ought to be's. I remember these things and the accompanying state of being only when He brings it to my recollection. The guilt and torment, the heaviness and burden has been washed away.

I live for today. This moment of time and all is perfect in Him. I know the instant I do something offensive and take care of it or do not do or say it. The Spirit does a wonderful job tutoring. I have been blessed with the gift of joy, gratitude, compassion, and love. I have been blessed with discernment, to see into the hearts of people I interact with and know their motives, whether righteous or evil. The scriptures are being opened to me.

I am at the beginning of my walk with God (2 Nephi 9:41). I sing praises to Him. Without Him I am nothing, with Him I can do all He wants me to do. He is God. He is truth. He is no respecter of persons. He is merciful. This is a gift for all, to be bestowed on all. In order to know the attributes of God and have them burned into your heart, you must receive this gift. In The Lectures on Faith, Joseph Smith teaches about the attributes of God perfectly. This born again process teaches you these things about Him.

The world is a different place. I see it through new eyes and with the gift of a new heart. Everything is perfect. We all experience what we need to bring us to Christ if we allow it to happen. God is merciful!!! He pardoned me!!! a sinner, and truly I, as the weakest of all His disciples, He makes me strong.

I pray that the love, light, and joy of the savior may be with you. If you haven't had this experience, it is worth the journey. For me I had to go to Hell and back and it is worth it!!!!!

I pray whoever may read this account may feel His Spirit upon you even as the warmth of the sunshine. I know God is our Father. I know by experience of this and also of our Savior Jesus Christ. He Loves us!!! He died for us!!! He lives for us!!!!

[sbsion]

btw, to those who don't know, even though some quote BoM to explain this, what is meant there is, they didn't KNOW what it was (called), etc., when it happens, YOU'LL KNOW

[Zathura]

Bumping this thread, because this is what matters, not conspiracy theories, traditions and tenets.

The experience shared below talks about a book that I would recommend to everyone.

Albarianotlink, thanks so much for your post.

And, Dickerson, thanks for yours too. Is there any way that you might care to elaborate?

Although I appreciate everyone's participation in the poll, I do wish more would be willing to share at least something about their experiences, and some form of testimony about this important doctrine.

Because so few have been willing to do that, I am going to share this account, that has been posted elsewhere. I may also post another, similar account that has also been posted elsewhere, that I think are very valuable in trying to help better understand the principles of this doctrine.

I share this sacred account of my "born again" experience only that it may help another in his or her search to "come unto Christ." (Moroni 10)

My quest for a difference in my life began in 1981. I knew there was more spiritually than I was getting through my church meetings. I was dissatisfied with my Sunday, only learning from other people, and began an in depth search of the scriptures. I read book after book, attended lectures, education weeks, and listened to devotionals. I had a hunger and thirst that could not be satisfied. I look back now and realize the yearnings I had were to lead me to the "mighty change.'' I was so inexperienced in spiritual things I kept thinking my yearnings would be satisfied by books and other people's ideas, rather than going to my Heavenly Father in prayer, and using the scriptures more.

The more I studied and learned with my head, deep in my heart I knew I knew nothing, especially about my Savior. There was more to the scriptures than stories and nice quotes, but they were sealed to me and they weren't the sealed portion!!! They were sealed because my eyes were blind and my ears were dull of hearing.

In 1986 President Benson gave a talk about the Church being under condemnation. I was part of that and it made me feel very uncomfortable. I didn't like being under condemnation from the Lord. This was the Lord's servant and mouthpiece and I took very literally what He said. I wanted that lifted off me, not just me but my family, friends, and everyone. My study intensified. Some days I studied more than others. We had several children during this time so my days were hectic, but I spent time daily in study and prayer.

In the fall of 1992, after unending locked doors in my spiritual searching, feeling like I almost had it, but because I lacked pieces so I had nothing, I heard a talk that held the key. I learned about the children of Israel and how they, like us, were under condemnation. I learned what they lacked was the willingness to let the Savior's gift work for them, they wanted to do it themselves (That explains the 600 plus commandments). The Savior's gift-The Atonement-How did that apply in my life? Where did I fit in all of this? I knew a lot about the gift in my head, but my heart did not understand.

I had some traumatic family events shortly after this that stripped me naked spiritually. There was nothing there. I felt like a stained glass window that had been pushed out of its frame and lay on the floor in hundreds of pieces. I had been studying for 12 years. I had much head learning, but my heart had barely been used. The mourning all but stopped my progress. I was numbed emotionally. I was in a survival mode. I had no extended family support, my friends all left, I was alone. What I knew in my head really didn't matter much. I learned how "nothing" we are without our Heavenly Father and His Son, our Redeemer. I knew what King Benjamin's message to his people about out "nothingness." (Mosiah 2)

In December of '93 I read a talk about prayer and overcoming false beliefs. I realized I didn't know how to pray. I had a lot of false beliefs caused by "traditions of the fathers and disobedience." (D&C 93:39)

For Christmas I received a copy of the book "Experiencing The Mighty Change." I read this book. So many bits and pieces I had studied were all put together under one cover. This book literally saved me 20 more years of study. As I read this book, I realized this was what the Spirit, the study, and all the experiences were driving me towards. I didn't know what "born again" was. As I read the Book of Mormon, I discovered it was all through that holy book. No wonder President Benson was pushing us to read that book. No wonder we were under condemnation. The scriptures began to open.

On December 2, I began my journey-the day I heard the prayer talk. I began to pray about my false beliefs, the Savior, my condemnation. Three weeks later, when I received the "Mighty Change" book, I began to pray about born again also. I also began to fast. I didn't know until I read Mighty Change that I didn't know how to fast either.

This journey was a very lonely one. At the time I knew of no one who had had the born again experience except an author of one of the books I read. I called him several times (long distance so the calls were brief) to make sure I was on track, to see if the feelings I was experiencing were normal and other things. He was so kind to me. I could feel his goodness over the phone line. He strengthened me and I will be forever grateful to him for his help. I struggled so much because the path hadn't been cleared and very few people were willing to speak to me about the subject. Now I know it was because of ignorance. We all have our own experience so it is a new path for each one. But I also feel to be strengthened by another is a great help during this most crucial and vulnerable time.

I decided I would fast every week. This was a challenge to me because I had blood sugar problems. I had to do it gradually but I now can fast a full 24 hours. Not only did I receive spiritual miracles, but physical miracles. What a blessing to have been healed from the blood sugar disorder I have been plagued with for years. What a wonderful blessing to participate in a true fast. It is a powerful testimony to me of the promises in Isaiah 58. Most important of all, the heavens were being opened to me.

I started getting up before my family every morning and start having "mighty prayer." I used to think a mighty prayer was five minutes. What a privilege it is to talk to our Father at the beginning of every day and feel of His love for me revelation about original experiences which set them in place and tutored from on high and healed. (Talk about counseling!!!) I was made aware of my sins which were caused from these false beliefs (these come from disobedience or traditions of our fathers-D&C 93). I was made aware of all my sins. . .aIl of them. I knew of the hurt I had caused others and the impediment upon my own growth. I saw myself as Christ can see us, all the cover-ups, the sneakiness, the honors of men syndrome, my condemnation of others, all my self righteousness and everything that was my carnal man.

It was necessary for me to get some unlayering done. These were layers that were blocking the Spirit from being in full fellowship with me. It took a while for me to get through this process. I know now it was because I was mourning the deaths of three close loved ones and my heart had to go through the process slowly. I would feel the Spirit, the cleansing and all that comes with this for 1 -2 hours a day, 3-4 days a week. My husband, on the other hand, went through it in a few days with no let up.

I felt mourning for my errors and sins. This part of the experience was not very fun. I was mourning because of the distance they had put between me and my God. The mourning was physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. It was literal gut wrenching mourning and sorrow.

One day, as I was studying about the Savior, I saw Him in Gethsemane. This was my Lord struggling over the sins of the world. Struggling over my sins. I saw Him see me. I saw Him see my life. He saw all my filth and unworthiness and said, "Yes!!! I will do it!!! I love her!!!" He bought me with His blood. He did this for each person. As I watched Him I thought my heart would break. I felt as though my chest would explode. I sobbed as I felt His love and compassion for me. I felt His holiness, His goodness, His strength, His truth, His mercy. These words seem hollow to use to describe Him. I couldn't bear to watch Him anymore. "Dear God" I cried, "Please, I cannot see this anymore." I saw Him in agony a while longer, then the vision closed. I lay on the floor exhausted from what I had just witnessed.

My new life began with a wash of peace that filled and warmed my entire being. It was a feeling of burning throughout my whole body-but a sweet burning. The voice of the Lord came to me and said, "Your sins are forgiven." I didn't want to move. I could feel the warmth, the love, the joy, the total peace. I had the same experience the next morning and again on Sunday during the sacrament. December 1 6, exactly 54 weeks from the beginning of the journey. I turned it all over to the Lord. All of it I gave Him and He made me His. I knew my life was acceptable to Him. I was a new creature. I was gratefully His.

All the rest of my false beliefs He took. He took my sins. He took the condemnation I felt for myself and thus for others. He took all judgement from my heart, all the have to be's and need to be's and ought to be's. I remember these things and the accompanying state of being only when He brings it to my recollection. The guilt and torment, the heaviness and burden has been washed away.

I live for today. This moment of time and all is perfect in Him. I know the instant I do something offensive and take care of it or do not do or say it. The Spirit does a wonderful job tutoring. I have been blessed with the gift of joy, gratitude, compassion, and love. I have been blessed with discernment, to see into the hearts of people I interact with and know their motives, whether righteous or evil. The scriptures are being opened to me.

I am at the beginning of my walk with God (2 Nephi 9:41). I sing praises to Him. Without Him I am nothing, with Him I can do all He wants me to do. He is God. He is truth. He is no respecter of persons. He is merciful. This is a gift for all, to be bestowed on all. In order to know the attributes of God and have them burned into your heart, you must receive this gift. In The Lectures on Faith, Joseph Smith teaches about the attributes of God perfectly. This born again process teaches you these things about Him.

The world is a different place. I see it through new eyes and with the gift of a new heart. Everything is perfect. We all experience what we need to bring us to Christ if we allow it to happen. God is merciful!!! He pardoned me!!! a sinner, and truly I, as the weakest of all His disciples, He makes me strong.

I pray that the love, light, and joy of the savior may be with you. If you haven't had this experience, it is worth the journey. For me I had to go to Hell and back and it is worth it!!!!!

I pray whoever may read this account may feel His Spirit upon you even as the warmth of the sunshine. I know God is our Father. I know by experience of this and also of our Savior Jesus Christ. He Loves us!!! He died for us!!! He lives for us!!!!

[diligently seeking]

Finrock got this so very right. Those who have not received yet, take comfort and inspiration from these words. ps both links Stahura has recently bumped on this impotant subject are Inspirational / phenomenal!



rewcox wrote:Can people be too impatient and force something that leads to listening to the wrong spirit? Finrock wrote: I think so. I think if the desire is about having some experience, then yes. However, I believe that as we get to a point in our life when we are serious about change and we actually begin to see how helpless we are without God, then the yearning and the desire will be not to have some experience, but because you are now ready and humble to listen and you are actually in reality ready to change. Not only are you ready to change (no joking, no rationalizations, no alterior motives, nothing but a sincere and true desire to become Good) but you are so desperate for help from God and so desirous to submit yourself to Him that you have given up your own will and you say, God, please save me from myself!The desire must be true, sincere, and with real intent. Deep, down, humble, submissive, rubber meets the road, recognizing I am nothing and need God, desires. This will not lead you astray. -FinrockHi Sarah,I'm a Mormon. Technically a convert (baptized at 9) but born in to the covenant. Been fairly active since 14. Been really active since I was 19 or so. I served my mission in Finland. I currently am active and serve in a calling in my ward. Not to say that I got it all figured out but I do understand the faith and works thing (at least what you might say is the Mormon perspective). King Benjamin taught that we are unworthy creatures. We do not merit the salvation we seek and receive. When we receive the BFHG it is as a result of God's mercy, grace, and love. All that we can do, really, is to have a broken heart and a contrite spirit. This humility, this recognizing our own nothingness before God, is what produces the BFHG. We approach Him in our broken and sinful state, seeing our filthiness and our sorry state, knowing we are indebted to Him forever, as we approach Him in this way, He cleanses us of our sins. God condescends to interact and to be with His sinful and wicked children. He condescended to speak with Cain after Cain murdered his brother. He condescended to speak with all the prophets who ever spoke with God face to face. They were not without sin, they were cleansed from sin and made worthy by the power of Christ the Lord.Psalm 51 wrote:Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.Repentance does not bring about a broken heart and a contrite spirit, but a broken heart and a contrite spirit brings about repentance. This is an important distinction I believe because it shows that we get power to change from God and we aren't required to be changed before God will help us to change.Elder Porter wrote:When our hearts are broken, we are completely open to the Spirit of God and recognize our dependence on Him for all that we have and all that we are. The sacrifice so entailed is a sacrifice of pride in all its forms. Like malleable clay in the hands of a skilled potter, the brokenhearted can be molded and shaped in the hands of the Master.A broken heart and a contrite spirit are also preconditions to repentance. Lehi taught:“Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah. …“Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered” (2 Nephi 2:6–7).When we sin and desire forgiveness, a broken heart and a contrite spirit mean to experience “godly sorrow [that] worketh repentance” (2 Corinthians 7:10). This comes when our desire to be cleansed from sin is so consuming that our hearts ache with sorrow and we yearn to feel at peace with our Father in Heaven. Those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit are willing to do anything and everything that God asks of them, without resistance or resentment. We cease doing things our way and learn to do them God’s way instead. In such a condition of submissiveness, the Atonement can take effect and true repentance can occur. The penitent will then experience the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost, which will fill them with peace of conscience and the joy of reconciliation with God. In a wondrous union of divine attributes, the same God who teaches us to walk with a broken heart invites us to rejoice and to be of good cheer.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ...Finrock

[rewcox]

This thread was started in 2012 with just over a page. Doesn't seem to be an interesting topic, or not controversial enough.

I liked the second post.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21217

Fire and the Holy Ghost

The witness, the change, the cleansing that comes gradually is no less powerful to the person with the right heart, and he or she is impelled to action whether the experience was a sudden, miraculous manifestation or the quiet workings of the Spirit. “Behold, he changed their hearts; yea, he awakened them out of a deep sleep, and they awoke unto God. Behold, they were in the midst of darkness; nevertheless, their souls were illuminated by the light of the everlasting word” (Alma 5:7).

How does a person know when he or she truly has received the witness of the Holy Ghost? The person will know it by how he or she feels (see Mosiah 5). The Spirit will touch a person who may have been passive in the drama of life and make of him or her a witness to the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and all it stands for. As Elder Marion G. Romney said, “No person whose soul is illuminated by the burning Spirit of God can … remain passive. He is driven by an irresistible urge to fit himself to be an active agent of God in furthering righteousness and in freeing the lives and minds of men from the bondage of sin.”17

[Zathura]

This thread was started in 2012 with just over a page. Doesn't seem to be an interesting topic, or not controversial enough.

I liked the second post.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21217

Fire and the Holy Ghost

The witness, the change, the cleansing that comes gradually is no less powerful to the person with the right heart, and he or she is impelled to action whether the experience was a sudden, miraculous manifestation or the quiet workings of the Spirit. “Behold, he changed their hearts; yea, he awakened them out of a deep sleep, and they awoke unto God. Behold, they were in the midst of darkness; nevertheless, their souls were illuminated by the light of the everlasting word” (Alma 5:7).

How does a person know when he or she truly has received the witness of the Holy Ghost? The person will know it by how he or she feels (see Mosiah 5). The Spirit will touch a person who may have been passive in the drama of life and make of him or her a witness to the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and all it stands for. As Elder Marion G. Romney said, “No person whose soul is illuminated by the burning Spirit of God can … remain passive. He is driven by an irresistible urge to fit himself to be an active agent of God in furthering righteousness and in freeing the lives and minds of men from the bondage of sin.”17

Rewcox, I actually read a good talk from Harold B Lee that had a few parts that I think you would like.

[rewcox]

This thread was started in 2012 with just over a page. Doesn't seem to be an interesting topic, or not controversial enough.

I liked the second post.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21217

Fire and the Holy Ghost

The witness, the change, the cleansing that comes gradually is no less powerful to the person with the right heart, and he or she is impelled to action whether the experience was a sudden, miraculous manifestation or the quiet workings of the Spirit. “Behold, he changed their hearts; yea, he awakened them out of a deep sleep, and they awoke unto God. Behold, they were in the midst of darkness; nevertheless, their souls were illuminated by the light of the everlasting word” (Alma 5:7).

How does a person know when he or she truly has received the witness of the Holy Ghost? The person will know it by how he or she feels (see Mosiah 5). The Spirit will touch a person who may have been passive in the drama of life and make of him or her a witness to the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and all it stands for. As Elder Marion G. Romney said, “No person whose soul is illuminated by the burning Spirit of God can … remain passive. He is driven by an irresistible urge to fit himself to be an active agent of God in furthering righteousness and in freeing the lives and minds of men from the bondage of sin.”17

Rewcox, I actually read a good talk from Harold B Lee that had a few parts that I think you would like.

What is the talk, I'll read it.

[Zathura]

http://scottwoodward.org/Talks/html/Lee ... pirit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Born of The Spirit"

I recall a few times where you or someone else have said that "dramatic" experiences aren't necessary and are the exception, not the rule. Elder Lee brings this up

"Now, I repeat, because of some of these dramatic experiences, some of our teachers jump to the conclusion that one isn't born of the Spirit until he has had some such dramatic experience."

This seems to suggest that you don't need to have the same type of experience that I've been saying that you need to be born of God. But then, he says this.
"Some assurances that are less dramatic are also recited. King Benjamin said, to some who had now been convicted of their sins:

And it came to pass that after they had spoken these words the Spirit of the Lord came upon them, and they were filled with joy, having received a remission of their sins, and having a peace of conscience, because of the exceeding faith which they had in Jesus Christ who should come, according to the words which King Benjamin had spoken unto them. (Mosiah 4:2.)
The converts of Alma said:
. . . he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain. (Alma 24:10-11.)
Then came that peace of conscience -- not dramatic. No outward show. But within, the individual knew.
Recall Enos' experience. His soul hungered and he went out to pray. All day and all night he prayed. And then there came a voice that said unto him:

Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed. And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore my guilt was swept away. (Enos 5-6.)"

He calls those examples the "less dramatic" experiences of someone being born again. It's those examples that I'm saying that we all must have. It seems that he also believes that those experiences are needed.
The "dramatic" ones that aren't necessary are the ones that have fire in the air, angels floating around, and tongues being spoken.

Another thing I wanted to point out. The question of whether or not the "Rebirth of the Spirit" is possible without the church has been brought up many times. Elder Lee said something interesting that would suggest that it IS possible without the church orginazation and keys.

He said:
Cyprian, the great defender of the faith after the apostolic period, put in a very lovely sentence when he said, speaking of his own conversion and baptism of the Spirit:
"I don't think you'll find anywhere a more beautifulInto my heart, purified of all sin, there entered a light which came from on high and then suddenly, and in a marvelous manner, I saw certainty succeed doubt."
explanation from a man who received the birth of the Spirit.

Elder Lee referred to him, saying he received the rebirth of the Spirit. This man lived during a time when priesthood keys were gone.

Anyways, I think you'll like it. You'll especially like the way he concludes his talk

[rewcox]

http://scottwoodward.org/Talks/html/Lee ... pirit.html

"Born of The Spirit"

I recall a few times where you or someone else have said that "dramatic" experiences aren't necessary and are the exception, not the rule. Elder Lee brings this up

"Now, I repeat, because of some of these dramatic experiences, some of our teachers jump to the conclusion that one isn't born of the Spirit until he has had some such dramatic experience."

This seems to suggest that you don't need to have the same type of experience that I've been saying that you need to be born of God. But then, he says this.
"Some assurances that are less dramatic are also recited. King Benjamin said, to some who had now been convicted of their sins:

And it came to pass that after they had spoken these words the Spirit of the Lord came upon them, and they were filled with joy, having received a remission of their sins, and having a peace of conscience, because of the exceeding faith which they had in Jesus Christ who should come, according to the words which King Benjamin had spoken unto them. (Mosiah 4:2.)
The converts of Alma said:
. . . he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain. (Alma 24:10-11.)
Then came that peace of conscience -- not dramatic. No outward show. But within, the individual knew.
Recall Enos' experience. His soul hungered and he went out to pray. All day and all night he prayed. And then there came a voice that said unto him:

Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed. And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore my guilt was swept away. (Enos 5-6.)"

He calls those examples the "less dramatic" experiences of someone being born again. It's those examples that I'm saying that we all must have. It seems that he also believes that those experiences are needed.
The "dramatic" ones that aren't necessary are the ones that have fire in the air, angels floating around, and tongues being spoken.

Another thing I wanted to point out. The question of whether or not the "Rebirth of the Spirit" is possible without the church has been brought up many times. Elder Lee said something interesting that would suggest that it IS possible without the church orginazation and keys.

He said:
Cyprian, the great defender of the faith after the apostolic period, put in a very lovely sentence when he said, speaking of his own conversion and baptism of the Spirit:
"I don't think you'll find anywhere a more beautifulInto my heart, purified of all sin, there entered a light which came from on high and then suddenly, and in a marvelous manner, I saw certainty succeed doubt."
explanation from a man who received the birth of the Spirit.

Elder Lee referred to him, saying he received the rebirth of the Spirit. This man lived during a time when priesthood keys were gone.

Anyways, I think you'll like it. You'll especially like the way he concludes his talk

Thanks, I'l read it. I agree with what you said in this post. I think quite a number of people have experienced this.

[rewcox]

http://scottwoodward.org/Talks/html/Lee ... pirit.html

Thanks Stahura, that is your Christmas gift to me!

Everyone should read that talk!

[Zathura]

http://scottwoodward.org/Talks/html/Lee ... pirit.html

Thanks Stahura, that is your Christmas gift to me!

Everyone should read that talk!

Yay, Rewcox is happy with me :(( :ymhug:

[h_p]

I share this sacred account of my "born again" experience only that it may help another in his or her search to "come unto Christ." (Moroni 10)

For Christmas I received a copy of the book "Experiencing The Mighty Change." I read this book. So many bits and pieces I had studied were all put together under one cover. This book literally saved me 20 more years of study. As I read this book, I realized this was what the Spirit, the study, and all the experiences were driving me towards. I didn't know what "born again" was. As I read the Book of Mormon, I discovered it was all through that holy book. No wonder President Benson was pushing us to read that book. No wonder we were under condemnation. The scriptures began to open.

This book, "Experiencing The Mighty Change," seems to be out of print now, but someone has transcribed it into a blog: http://mightychangeofheart.com/etmc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I haven't read it yet, but it sounds worthwhile.

[Zathura]

I share this sacred account of my "born again" experience only that it may help another in his or her search to "come unto Christ." (Moroni 10)

For Christmas I received a copy of the book "Experiencing The Mighty Change." I read this book. So many bits and pieces I had studied were all put together under one cover. This book literally saved me 20 more years of study. As I read this book, I realized this was what the Spirit, the study, and all the experiences were driving me towards. I didn't know what "born again" was. As I read the Book of Mormon, I discovered it was all through that holy book. No wonder President Benson was pushing us to read that book. No wonder we were under condemnation. The scriptures began to open.

This book, "Experiencing The Mighty Change," seems to be out of print now, but someone has transcribed it into a blog: http://mightychangeofheart.com/etmc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I haven't read it yet, but it sounds worthwhile.

Read it. There were 2 or 3 chapters that EVERYONE need to read.

[h_p]

I definitely will. Right now, I'm neck-deep in Hugh Nibley's "Approaching Zion." Hard to put that one down, though it's a book with teeth.

Thanks for that post, that account was great. And this is for everyone else, the appendix of ETMC has another interesting story, as well: http://mightychangeofheart.com/etmc/appendix/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rewcox]

Fire and the Holy Ghost

The new convert who has accepted the gift of the Holy Ghost with the right spirit will experience not only a cleansing but a feeling that will give him a new heart and make of him a new person. Sometimes this is immediate, and sometimes it happens over a period of time. But always there is a change for the better. For the longer-standing member of the Church who has become preoccupied with the world or in little ways has allowed his religious life to be more procedural than of the spirit, there is something to be rediscovered (and for some, discovered for the first time) with the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.

To the Book of Mormon Apostles, the Savior said, “Blessed are they who shall believe in your words, and come down into the depths of humility and be baptized, for they shall be visited with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and shall receive a remission of their sins” (3 Ne. 12:2). “Thus has it been in all ages, and thus is it in our day,” said Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. “After baptism in water, legal administrators lay their hands upon a repentant person and say: ‘Receive the Holy Ghost.’ This gives him the gift of the Holy Ghost, which is the right to the constant companionship of that member of the Godhead based on faithfulness. Either then or later, depending upon the individual’s personal worthiness, the Holy Ghost comes. The baptized person becomes a new creature. He is baptized with fire, sin and evil are burned out of his soul, and he is born again.” 4

The witness, the change, the cleansing that comes gradually is no less powerful to the person with the right heart, and he or she is impelled to action whether the experience was a sudden, miraculous manifestation or the quiet workings of the Spirit. “Behold, he changed their hearts; yea, he awakened them out of a deep sleep, and they awoke unto God. Behold, they were in the midst of darkness; nevertheless, their souls were illuminated by the light of the everlasting word” (Alma 5:7).

[h_p]

This is perhaps one of the best quotes by a modern apostle about the gift of the Holy Ghost, and goes right along with rewcox's quotes. This should be a scripture mastery or something:

The simplicity of this ordinance may cause us to overlook its significance. These four words—“Receive the Holy Ghost”—are not a passive pronouncement; rather, they constitute a priesthood injunction—an authoritative admonition to act and not simply to be acted upon (see 2 Nephi 2:26). The Holy Ghost does not become operative in our lives merely because hands are placed upon our heads and those four important words are spoken. As we receive this ordinance, each of us accepts a sacred and ongoing responsibility to desire, to seek, to work, and to so live that we indeed “receive the Holy Ghost” and its attendant spiritual gifts. “For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift” (D&C 88:33).

The Holy Ghost talk in every single baptismal service I've sat through that I can remember overlooked this crucial point. I hope to see the day when this quote is read in every baptismal service throughout the church.

[rewcox]

This is perhaps one of the best quotes by a modern apostle about the gift of the Holy Ghost, and goes right along with rewcox's quotes. This should be a scripture mastery or something:

The simplicity of this ordinance may cause us to overlook its significance. These four words—“Receive the Holy Ghost”—are not a passive pronouncement; rather, they constitute a priesthood injunction—an authoritative admonition to act and not simply to be acted upon (see 2 Nephi 2:26). The Holy Ghost does not become operative in our lives merely because hands are placed upon our heads and those four important words are spoken. As we receive this ordinance, each of us accepts a sacred and ongoing responsibility to desire, to seek, to work, and to so live that we indeed “receive the Holy Ghost” and its attendant spiritual gifts. “For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift” (D&C 88:33).

The Holy Ghost talk in every single baptismal service I've sat through that I can remember overlooked this crucial point. I hope to see the day when this quote is read in every baptismal service throughout the church.

Yep. From Fire and the Holy Ghost:

President Kimball: “The gift of the Holy Ghost grows with worthiness. If you are baptized when you are eight years old, of course you are a child, and there is much you would not be expected to know. But the Holy Ghost comes to you as you grow and learn and make yourselves worthy. It comes a little at a time as you merit it. And as your life is in harmony, you gradually receive the Holy Ghost in a great measure.” 15

also

The baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost is from the presence of the Lord. It has the power to testify of the Father and Son, of Joseph Smith and living Apostles and prophets, and of the truthfulness of this work. It can also cleanse from sin, make of us at heart a new person, heal our souls, cause us to feel a love toward God and our fellowmen, and build within us a desire to become witnesses of his holy work. It can become a guide to our personal lives and help us make right decisions.

[diligently seeking]

I love LOVE this thread. That is all.

[Bree]

I share this sacred account of my "born again" experience only that it may help another in his or her search to "come unto Christ." (Moroni 10)

For Christmas I received a copy of the book "Experiencing The Mighty Change." I read this book. So many bits and pieces I had studied were all put together under one cover. This book literally saved me 20 more years of study. As I read this book, I realized this was what the Spirit, the study, and all the experiences were driving me towards. I didn't know what "born again" was. As I read the Book of Mormon, I discovered it was all through that holy book. No wonder President Benson was pushing us to read that book. No wonder we were under condemnation. The scriptures began to open.

This book, "Experiencing The Mighty Change," seems to be out of print now, but someone has transcribed it into a blog: http://mightychangeofheart.com/etmc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I haven't read it yet, but it sounds worthwhile.

Thank you for providing this link. I have only read the forward and Appendix. Just that has given me understanding of many experiences Ihave had in my life.
I would like to share but I am waiting how to put somethings into words. i know this that coming to this thread has been a key. Thank you all and God bless you.

[SaturdayWarrior]

I will share:

After a long struggle with temptation and falling just a bit here and there...I fell on my knees one night and poured out my heart to my Heavenly Father. I told Him everything that was happening in my life. I had a spouse who treated me very poorly, and other challenges. I repented honestly and sincerely of my shortcomings and sins. i reached out to him in a most humble, sincere, and heartbreaking way.

When I was finished, I got into bed and was emotionally exhausted. All was quiet and dark. My husband lay sleeping with his back to me. i as facing the dark window with my eyes closed quietly trying to go to sleep.

I then became aware of a light outside of my eyes...like a lamp had been turned on. My eyes were still closed. It had appeared very gradually. It then gradually came into my head and it burned out all my suffering, pain, troubled thoughts, etc....it was very slow ...like the speed of a match....burned isn't the right word. The right word is "consumed". It replaced it with the most peaceful, and profound loving, peaceful.....wonderful heavenly element. This happened as it filled my head. With this light "staying put" as it also moved down my entire self. I REMEMBER it all so well....i remember it moving down and filling my fingers....legs and to the end of my feet/toes. It remained for a while then it withdrew to the side. I immediately crashed to sleep.

I didn't know what had happened. i barely remembered it the next day because it was such peaceful and quiet experience. But oh yes....I did remember. The spirit taught me later that it was the baptism of fire.

[SaturdayWarrior]

I did realize soon though that it was from God and He had forgiven me of my sins, cleansed me, and healed me.

[throughwithin]

Saturday Warrior and others:

About 6 months ago I experienced the baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost in almost the exact way Saturday Warrior described it, a soft burning that started in my head and grew out to my extremities. As I recovered from such an unprecedented wave of very real, very physical sensations in my body, it was the most peaceful point of my life. Taking me to scripture within a few minutes, the Spirit testified to me of the simple truth in some passages that most Christians consider baffling. Things like why there seem to be two creation accounts, one in Genesis 1 and another in Genesis 2, the answer to that is remarkably simple, assuming I now understand correctly it is only one account. Or a simple explanation for the number 666.

My sin nature had been removed and His love nature left behind.

The strange thing for this audience may be that I was not a member of the Church at that time, but am now. For just as the Spirit directed me to those scriptures, I was also directed to join the true Church, by the Spirit, not long after that, and I count myself so blessed to now be a Latter Day Saint.

[throughwithin]

This post is a test of why the last post did not bump the thread into active posts, so reposting.

Saturday Warrior and others:

About 6 months ago I experienced the baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost in almost the exact way Saturday Warrior described it, a soft burning that started in my head and grew out to my extremities. As I recovered from such an unprecedented wave of very real, very physical sensations in my body, it was the most peaceful point of my life. Taking me to scripture within a few minutes, the Spirit testified to me of the simple truth in some passages that most Christians consider baffling. Things like why there seem to be two creation accounts, one in Genesis 1 and another in Genesis 2, the answer to that is remarkably simple, assuming I now understand correctly it is only one account. Or a simple explanation for the number 666.

My sin nature had been removed and His love nature left behind.

The strange thing for this audience may be that I was not a member of the Church at that time, but am now. For just as the Spirit directed me to those scriptures, I was also directed to join the true Church, by the Spirit, not long after that, and I count myself so blessed to now be a Latter Day Saint.

[Elizabeth]

I also received this knowledge and experience previous to joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in response to:

4. And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mor ... ang=eng#p4

[throughwithin]

Thanks for sharing Elizabeth. It looks like you are very active here but I don't see any other posts from you in this thread.

Being baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost is by far the biggest and best thing that has ever happened to me. The experience has completely transformed me and changed my life, inside and outside. Inside there is always peace, as I walk in the Spirit continually. Outside, some good friends have abandoned me, not willing to believe that I am so transformed, even as the evidence is overwhelming, and probably more so that I have joined the church that they consider to be some sort of weird cult.

How did people around you react?