Why Apathy & Complacency?

[freedomforall]

I have thought long and hard as to how or why people become complacent, or worse yet..apathetic concerning the dangers we have been faced with for many decades. And you know what? I wonder if it isn't because we hear in conference and our church meetings from those who say something like this "the future looks bright". It's not my intention to criticize anyone. I simply wonder if statements like this tend to cause defenses to slacken, worries to weaken, concerns to fade and actions to deminish, when in reality we are faced with an enormous satanic spider striving to devour us if we don't wake up... and act.

Do members of the church, (numbers are insignificant) feel or assume God will take care of everything? That when danger comes our way He will avert it without any action on our part?

These Prophets don't declare such a message. Just the opposite. It is our duty to cause a stir around us in awakening everyone to the potential overthrow of our freedoms. Here is one such admonishment.

"We encourage every person and every group who is sincerely seeking to study constitutional principles and awaken a sleeping and apathetic people to the alarming conditions that are rapidly advancing about us. We wish all of our citizens throughout the land were participating in some type of organized self-education in order that they could better appreciate what is happening and know what they can do about it."

-- President David O. McKay - CR April 1966

Please watch and listen to the video on this site...about 2/3 down. Apparently it can be seen on YouTube as well. http://www.latterdayconservative.com/bl ... -ron-paul/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Two great Prophets have spoken to us about the danger of being complacent and apathetic.

I hear from many members today that say we are not to mix church and government; don't talk about government issues in church. (I've heard this many times from members) But as you listen to these voices standing at a pulpit, declaring and motivating us to action in front of large congregations, and incouraging us to talk about it in church, these individuals that say contrary to this ought to re-examine their line of thinking.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

When I was a young man, we went on a river trip running the middle fork of the Salmon river in Id. On that trip I went for a hike with a couple of young men up to the top of a nearby ridge. After we got back one of the young men on that hike stated to my brother that I deliberately chose the hardest path up the mountain and liked it. I have often thought about that and asked myself why that was true of me, because that is the way I have always lived my life. I have gotten a great deal of criticism by those that see the obvious easier road. But like Thoreau it "has made all the difference."

Call it my version of Lehi's vision, but I believe that the fastest way up is also the steepest. There will always be those who mock, but then they can't see the view from here so how could they rightfully judge the path that leads here?

When this life is over most will still be down in the smog of inversion, they will never be able to see past it and that will be damning to them. But, those of us that are strict in the plain road, seldom question the path looking back, as from that perspective we may easily see that the path was the quickest way to get to where we. That is the confirmation of our faith that can never be had in advance, notwithstanding the fact that we may come to know the trail breaker and never have to question His paths.

Few things worth doing are easy.

I do think that we have an obligation to let our light shine from the heights and appeal to "them" by pointing out the goodness of the fruit and ever beckoning them onto the straight and narrow path, even if "few there be that find it."

I was thinking recently about a youth activity to teach this point. It would have a map with a course to follow along which good gifts would be concealed. The journey would be timed and limited and off the charted path there would be lots of shiny dollar store cheap garbage. Those who were distracted by the easy and obvious sparklys that they could see would lose out on the greater gifts of obedience hidden along the proscribed route, and those who were strict in the plain road who proceeded forth with all haste would find themselves greatly rewarded.

[Jason]

When I was a young man, we went on a river trip running the middle fork of the Salmon river in Id. On that trip I went for a hike with a couple of young men up to the top of a nearby ridge. After we got back one of the young men on that hike stated to my brother that I deliberately chose the hardest path up the mountain and liked it. I have often thought about that and asked myself why that was true of me, because that is the way I have always lived my life. I have gotten a great deal of criticism by those that see the obvious easier road. But like Thoreau it "has made all the difference."

Call it my version of Lehi's vision, but I believe that the fastest way up is also the steepest. There will always be those who mock, but then they can't see the view from here so how could they rightfully judge the path that leads here?

When this life is over most will still be down in the smog of inversion, they will never be able to see past it and that will be damning to them. But, those of us that are strict in the plain road, seldom question the path looking back, as from that perspective we may easily see that the path was the quickest way to get to where we. That is the confirmation of our faith that can never be had in advance, notwithstanding the fact that we may come to know the trail breaker and never have to question His paths.

Few things worth doing are easy.

I do think that we have an obligation to let our light shine from the heights and appeal to "them" by pointing out the goodness of the fruit and ever beckoning them onto the straight and narrow path, even if "few there be that find it."

I was thinking recently about a youth activity to teach this point. It would have a map with a course to follow along which good gifts would be concealed. The journey would be timed and limited and off the charted path there would be lots of shiny dollar store cheap garbage. Those who were distracted by the easy and obvious sparklys that they could see would lose out on the greater gifts of obedience hidden along the proscribed route, and those who were strict in the plain road who proceeded forth with all haste would find themselves greatly rewarded.

Spent a sweet week on the middle fork as well....had grizzly swim across less than 20 yds in front of us....climb out...take a dump...then head up the other side of the mountain.

[Squally]

You know, it is easy to just enjoy what is available right now for the easy taking. Why plan, prepare, or do anything that requires sacrifice while things are still good, or even good enough. This is a common excuse I see and hear around me.

[freedomforall]

President Benson said in a conference that those who are not willing to stand up for freedom do not deserve to be an American citizen, and warned against complacency. He also states that by actively doing something for the cause of freedom may well save one's soul.

Are we to assume that just because a "cleansing " is coming, we can sit by and let this country slip into a state of slavery under world control until that time?

Mr. Churchill said:
"There may be even a worse fate. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves." WHAT WILL YOU DO? If you are unwilling to get involved because you feel it may be bad for business or may jeopardize your social respectability, just look into the eyes of your children and tell them that making a buck and climbing the social ladder are more important to you than they are. This is the end of our case. If you have decided not to do anything about it, then you can close this book, read no further, and turn out the light. That is just what you will be doing for the United States of America, and may God help us. And may He have mercy on your soul. . .."

Will God save a people who are lax in the attitude toward freedom? He said this land is a land of freedom and that the inhabitants were to be righteous and prosperous. If the people who are willing and able to strive in keeping this country free, then I would hope that God would then step in and save us.

Let's compare two facts: not fighting for freedom can trap us in a state of slavery . . . not keeping the commandments and living righteously earns us the Telestial kingdom. What a parallel, huh?

These have been submitted here on the forum several times but, I wish those who are complacent could read these carefully and see if they are more appealing than freedom.

1. Restrictions on taking money out of the country and on the establishment or retention of a foreign bank account by an American citizen.
2. Abolition of private ownership of hand guns.
3. Detention of individuals without judicial process.
4. Requirements that private financial transactions be keyed to social security numbers or other government identification so that government records of these transactions can be kept and fed into a computer.
5. Use of compulsory education laws to forbid attendance at presently existing private schools.
6. Compulsory non-military service.
7. Compulsory psychological treatment for non-government workers or public school children.
8. An official declaration that anti-Communist organizations are subversive and subsequent legal action taken to suppress them.
9. Laws limiting the number of people allowed to meet in a private home.
10. Any significant change in passport regulations to make passports more difficult to obtain or use.
11. Wage and price controls, especially in a non-wartime situation.
12. Any kind of compulsory registration with the government of where individuals work.
13. Any attempt to restrict freedom of movement within the United States.
14. Any attempt to make a new major law by executive decree (that is, actually put into effect, not merely authorized as by existing executive orders.)

What are executive orders?
If he wanted to, the President could take giant steps toward reducing socialistic controls over the citizens of this country without the assistance of a single senator or congressman. Many of the most dictatorial laws that have partially enslaved Americans were not passed by Congress at all. These are "Executive Orders," which are entered into the Federal Register by the Executive Department and at the end of thirty days have the force of law. Nowhere in the Constitution will you find a grant of power to make "Executive Orders."

A president could take a gigantic step towards increasing individual liberty simply by systematically repealing literally thousands of un-Constitutional "Executive Orders" that are on the books.

We can write our Congressman: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's what a Prophet said could happen regarding apathy and complacency:

Elder Ezra Taft Benson
Of the Council of the Twelve Apostles, General Conference Address, April 1968
"I do not believe the greatest threat to our future is from bombs or guided missiles. I do not think our civilization will die that way. I think it will die when we no longer care, when the spiritual forces that make us wish to be right and noble die in the hearts of men, when we disregard the importance of law and order.

If American freedom is lost, if America is destroyed, if our blood-bought freedom is surrendered, it will be because of Americans. What's more, it will probably not be only the work of subversive and criminal Americans. The Benedict Arnolds will not be the only ones to forfeit our freedom.

"At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected?" asked Abraham Lincoln, and he answered, "If it ever reaches us, it must spring up among us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher; as a nation of freemen, we must live through all time or die by suicide." (Springfield, Illinois, January 27, 1837.)

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers--normally good Americans, but Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free--Americans who have been lulled away into a false security."

[lundbaek]

The message I get over the pulpit in our stake is that if we do our home/visiting teaching, have family home evening, do missionary work, attend the temple, and attend our meetings faithfully, that the Lord will see us thru the calamities foretold. These issues are clearly the current priorities. There has been no talk of maintaining or restoring constitutional principles, nor talk of anything remotely resembling conspiracy or secret combinations destroying our freedoms, nor even much mention of what is happening to our country. I have the distinct conviction that up to now at least, our stake presidency considers these topics an undesirable distraction from the current priorities.

[freedomforall]

The message I get over the pulpit in our stake is that if we do our home/visiting teaching, have family home evening, do missionary work, attend the temple, and attend our meetings faithfully, that the Lord will see us thru the calamities foretold. These issues are clearly the current priorities. There has been no talk of maintaining or restoring constitutional principles, nor talk of anything remotely resembling conspiracy or secret combinations destroying our freedoms, nor even much mention of what is happening to our country. I have the distinct conviction that up to now at least, our stake presidency considers these topics an undesirable distraction from the current priorities.

Interesting. My Bishop and his wife are the one's that got my wife and I started. And by permission from our Stake Presidency, we sent for manuals from church distribution in SLC and quite a few of us read them in a group setting in another members home. In it we learn that we have two Constitutions, one the Framers wrote, the other is through the Judicial system. It's a very good read! This type of activity is exactly what President McKay was talking about, mentioned in my first post..

The Gospel Key To Our True Constitution, Formerly The United States Has Two Constitutions
How to identify and promote the true Constitution

Here is a link to that study material: http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/jh_gk/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lundbaek]

Freedomfighter, how recent was that group study of "The Gospel Key To Our True Constitution, Formerly The United States Has Two Constitutions" ? It was written by Jerome Horowitz. Did you get that from Church Distribution ? Recently ? It is an excellent work.

[freedomforall]

Freedomfighter, how recent was that group study of "The Gospel Key To Our True Constitution, Formerly The United States Has Two Constitutions" ? It was written by Jerome Horowitz. Did you get that from Church Distribution ? Recently ? It is an excellent work.

About one and a half years ago. When we got the manuals from church distribution, the title was "The United States Has Two Constitutions". I'm sure they still have these for puchase. Following the reading of it, my blood started to boil so I decided to read more books and do something about it, even if all I can do is present different ideas on this site. I believe those who read our posts will take that information and it will be passed on to someone else somewhere, someplace, and this is good.

In some of my early posts I mentioned Bro. Horowitz and his works.

Again, here is a good link for this and another of his courses. And there are many other reading treats.
http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/courses.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[creator]

I have thought long and hard as to how or why people become complacent, or worse yet..apathetic concerning the dangers we have been faced with for many decades. And you know what?

I wonder if it has anything to do with how SLOW things are changing? We've had it so good for so long, and have been warned, for so long, about the coming dangers/problems this nation is facing.. some people even bought food storage and did other things to prepare and then 10, 20, 50 years later life is still good, not as good as before, but still good enough... eventually some get rid of their food storage, go back to sleep, etc.

I was discussing this with a friend recently, we both agreed that if things are going to get worse, if the economy collapses, and everything else around us is collapsing and whatnot, we'd rather it all happen fast, and not so SLOWWWW. Do you understand what I'm saying?

[lundbaek]

Reminds me of the bit about the frog in a pot of water being slowly heated up.

[freedomforall]

I have thought long and hard as to how or why people become complacent, or worse yet..apathetic concerning the dangers we have been faced with for many decades. And you know what?

I wonder if it has anything to do with how SLOW things are changing? We've had it so good for so long, and have been warned, for so long, about the coming dangers/problems this nation is facing.. some people even bought food storage and did other things to prepare and then 10, 20, 50 years later life is still good, not as good as before, but still good enough... eventually some get rid of their food storage, go back to sleep, etc.

I was discussing this with a friend recently, we both agreed that if things are going to get worse, if the economy collapses, and everything else around us is collapsing and whatnot, we'd rather it all happen fast, and not so SLOWWWW. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Absolutely, and I agree. I think...this is part of the test because, obedience is not an event. When I was working, as a union member I had to go on strike a couple of times. Boy, was I glad I had some storage! The union gave no subsistence to its members.

[freedomforall]

Reminds me of the bit about the frog in a pot of water being slowly heated up.

Great analogy. My stomach turned.

[Original_Intent]

I'd take six months to a year more of slow, please.

I think the speed up has already been going on for at least a couple of years and just think it will keep accelerating. I know I could and would put even another 5 to 10 years of prep opportunity to good use, but it isn't going to happen. Sadly I myself have really only been filling my spiritual lamp for the past 18 months or so - hopefully it's enough.

[Jason]

I'd take six months to a year more of slow, please.

I think the speed up has already been going on for at least a couple of years and just think it will keep accelerating. I know I could and would put even another 5 to 10 years of prep opportunity to good use, but it isn't going to happen. Sadly I myself have really only been filling my spiritual lamp for the past 18 months or so - hopefully it's enough.

Its not where you've been....but where you are going....that matters most!

[lundbaek]

Those of us who are older have more with which to compare the present situtation. The contrast of us is greater than for folks 1/2 or even 2/3 our ages. I just had a chat with a pharmacist at our local supermarket, and he told me they were nitified in writing that prices in the store generally were going up because of transportation and distribution costs as well as costs of goods to the market. A quick look at a few of the things in the food area that I especially like confirmed what he said.

But this should be no surprise to those of us who understand the agenda of the latter-day gadiantons.

[creator]

To address this further...

If life as we know it ends, or rather the current culture/lifestyle we enjoy in the United States comes to an end, I'd rather it be overnight... rather than the struggles involved in the slow movement we're experiencing now.

Based on what people say is eventually going to happen... if they are right... It's likely many of us will find ourselves doing something totally different for survivial. I doubt there will be a need for a website designer and I may find myself suddenly having to live off of my food storage and growing a garden, joining together with a tribe in a more primitive living situation... which I'm totally ready to accept (I lived in Haiti for 2 years), but I just want it to happen quickly.

You might say, why not make that transition now?! It's not that simple considering the corrupt and evil system we live under, which make many of the things I would want to do ILLEGAL! Not morally wrong at all, but illegal under our current system that basically makes "poverty" illegal and only a certain standard of living is legally acceptable.

[Jason]

To address this further...

If life as we know it ends, or rather the current culture/lifestyle we enjoy in the United States comes to an end, I'd rather it be overnight... rather than the struggles involved in the slow movement we're experiencing now.

Based on what people say is eventually going to happen... if they are right... It's likely many of us will find ourselves doing something totally different for survivial. I doubt there will be a need for a website designer and I may find myself suddenly having to live off of my food storage and growing a garden, joining together with a tribe in a more primitive living situation... which I'm totally ready to accept (I lived in Haiti for 2 years), but I just want it to happen quickly.

You might say, why not make that transition now?! It's not that simple considering the corrupt and evil system we live under, which make many of the things I would want to do ILLEGAL! Not morally wrong at all, but illegal under our current system that basically makes "poverty" illegal and only a certain standard of living is legally acceptable.

Amen! Control structure has to break before the options become available!

[Book of Ruth]

I'm just wondering what it is we are supposed to do about our awful government situation? I realize that we are in a big mess, but other than vote, and talk to friends and family about our situation, and may I add talking in an open, non arguementative agressive way, I don't know what else to do. I'm not going to have some violent protest, I'm not going to rant and rave (no one listens to that). So, what?

Our 5th Sunday lesson was completely on Home Teaching and Visit Teaching and that it means, not to check someone off a list as being contacted, but to check on your neighbors, make sure they are okay.

I agree with the above post, that the Brethern are telling us to be good neighbors, and keep an eye on each other, the world has gone mad, and people need to know that they are cared about, and that we are looking out for each other.

Politically, I have no idea what more I can do. Any ideas of what we are supposed to do with this respect?

[lundbaek]

To Book of Ruth’s question, “Any ideas of what we are supposed to do with this respect?” may I refer to a few words we discussed in my Primary class this past Sunday: “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”

Having said that, I’ll offer that my agenda now is to awake others, especially Latter-day Saints, to our responsibility to awake to and oppose the works of the secret combinations that you appear to be well aware of, and to find ways to awake them to the principles of the US Constitution and the need to restore it in its original meaning.

[creator]

I'm just wondering what it is we are supposed to do about our awful government situation? I realize that we are in a big mess, but other than vote, and talk to friends and family about our situation, and may I add talking in an open, non arguementative agressive way, I don't know what else to do..

Ask the Lord.

Hopefully this blog post I wrote (and the articles I linked to) will help you come to an answer regarding what you should do: What Are You Doing About It?

We may not be able to do very much directly about the Secret Combination, but if each of us were doing our part, fulfilling our stewardship to ourselves, family and community the Secret Combinations wouldn't have any power over us.

[lundbaek]

I think the best we can accomplish now is to educate younger people, especially members of the Church, to our awful situation, and to their responsibility to the US Constitution and its restoration. After the cleansing of America those who are educated in these things will be needed to restore government based on the same principles as in our original Constitution. But the education of those young people needs to start now.

[Nan]

I think the best thing we can do is to help spiritually strengthen ourselves and others. And then the spirit can inspire people on what they should do. The spirit can do way more to wake people up than any person on this earth.

[Vision]

I have found the comments on this thread very interesting.

1. As for the Prophets and Apostle's not giving "firebrand" talks anymore like Benson gave. We are an International Church now with more member outside of the US than in the US so a message about the US Constitution may not be appropiate for a General Conference audience. I know the the words of the prophets are watched and studied very carefully by the enemies of the church. I would love to be a fly on the wall when the President of the US visits church headquarters, I imagine that the topic of conversations are not all warm and fuzzy like the media shots portray. I may be off but I remember the sequence of events that Bush visited church headquarters on a Sunday and Stephen Jones resigned from BYU on the following Tuesday, just a coincidence right?

2. The Leaders give us what we want to hear. The Israelites wanted an idol to worship so they made one. The members only want milk not meat. I serve as a 1st Counselor in a Bishopric. The month that we conduct in our ward we speak one of the Sundays. I have learned from experience that the members don't want to hear about preparedness. Good faithful members rolling their eyes as I spoke to them about "All is well in Zion". It has gotten to the point that some of them get up and leave when I get up to speak. They don't want to hear anything that is not mundane gospel topics. They are members that live for the culture and traditions of the church, not to hear the doctrine. The wheat will separate from the tares on it's own. One member of my ward engaged me after a talk to make his point that the coming of the Savior is more than 300 years away so why spend time worrying about it now. He is a good faithful member that serves dilligently in all his callings, but he just will not open his mind to the sense of our awful situation. He hides behind things like " the Gospel has not spread to all the Earth yet" so the second coming cannot be that close. I can't read books that are written by Skousen, or Monnett or other authors because they are not the words of the Prophets. The church would not be spending billions developing downtown Salt Lake if the second coming was that close. He has found the signs of his times that confirm his set of beliefs. The patterns in the scriptures show that the members declined in righteousness because of apathy and complacency. I don't wonder why the members are so apathetic, it is the destiny of the church to crumble because of the wickedness of the members.

I say fasten your seatbelts the ride is about to get very interesting.

[lundbaek]

We have been an international church ever since the first missionaries ventured into other countries to preach the gospel. In my years living and working in Germany, England, Italy, Denmark, and Switzerland I met a few members who understand the dangers posed by the secret combinations as discussed by Moroni and Nephi, and who also understand that although they live in nations not governed by the principles of the US Constitution, they realize that they are responsible to support those principles as best they can, and that one day they may live by those principles. My most interesting discussions of these subjects “over there” were with a few translators for the Church who to me seemed to get the picture. Then there are others who think our system here is “anti-social” and years ago now one even said if Ezra Taft Benson became the Church President he would quit participating in church. I never checked back. But anyway, I think they need to learn to appreciate those principles just as we do in this country.

I cannot stress enough the importance of our making the effort to awake to our “awful situation”. I think that if one reads carefully the words of Moroni and Nephi, plus the descriptions of the evil works of the gadiantons, that will give the Spirit something to work with. But to gloss over those verses, especially verses with the word “command” or “commandment” attached, is unwise. We are commanded to awake to our awful situation. To me that means to study the situation and try to figure out what the “awful situation” in fact is, what is causing it, and then to seek guidance on what to do about it. And we need to learn to do these things of our own without being commanded in all things.