Why Apathy & Complacency?

[freedomforall]

I have really liked the many comments here, most of which are in line with what I was asking in the first place.

Thanks

Welcome "Vision". I can understand your frustration with members that omit an "I'm okay right where I'm at, thank you" attitude. Perhaps what Bishoprics need to do is spoon feed the congregations with current events and the dangers and consequences if not watched for, and dealt with. For example, in the healthcare bill there a quite a few issues thrown in there that have nothing to do with healthcare. There is a retired Army Gen., "Jerry" Boykin, that states some of these things. He can be found on YouTube under "Marxism in America"

Anyway, it will be nice to read your posts.

[freedomforall]

President Benson said:If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers--normally good Americans, but Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free--Americans who have been lulled away into a false security."

False security? Does this include goverment handouts so people who don't want to earn their way can lay in their hammocks and wait for their next welfare check to arrive?
Does it include having the government pay one's mortgage for a year?
Etc.?

Or is it the notion that "all is well in Zion"? As long as one can still have their fun, why worry about anything else?
With so many stories and their versions from the media, why bother with finding out the truth?

I know there will be a lot of people caught with their pants down when increased world disasters strike.

[Squally]

I have found the comments on this thread very interesting.

1. As for the Prophets and Apostle's not giving "firebrand" talks anymore like Benson gave. We are an International Church now with more member outside of the US than in the US so a message about the US Constitution may not be appropiate for a General Conference audience. I know the the words of the prophets are watched and studied very carefully by the enemies of the church. I would love to be a fly on the wall when the President of the US visits church headquarters, I imagine that the topic of conversations are not all warm and fuzzy like the media shots portray. I may be off but I remember the sequence of events that Bush visited church headquarters on a Sunday and Stephen Jones resigned from BYU on the following Tuesday, just a coincidence right?

2. The Leaders give us what we want to hear. The Israelites wanted an idol to worship so they made one. The members only want milk not meat. I serve as a 1st Counselor in a Bishopric. The month that we conduct in our ward we speak one of the Sundays. I have learned from experience that the members don't want to hear about preparedness. Good faithful members rolling their eyes as I spoke to them about "All is well in Zion". It has gotten to the point that some of them get up and leave when I get up to speak. They don't want to hear anything that is not mundane gospel topics. They are members that live for the culture and traditions of the church, not to hear the doctrine. The wheat will separate from the tares on it's own. One member of my ward engaged me after a talk to make his point that the coming of the Savior is more than 300 years away so why spend time worrying about it now. He is a good faithful member that serves dilligently in all his callings, but he just will not open his mind to the sense of our awful situation. He hides behind things like " the Gospel has not spread to all the Earth yet" so the second coming cannot be that close. I can't read books that are written by Skousen, or Monnett or other authors because they are not the words of the Prophets. The church would not be spending billions developing downtown Salt Lake if the second coming was that close. He has found the signs of his times that confirm his set of beliefs. The patterns in the scriptures show that the members declined in righteousness because of apathy and complacency. I don't wonder why the members are so apathetic, it is the destiny of the church to crumble because of the wickedness of the members.

I say fasten your seatbelts the ride is about to get very interesting.

Fastened! Vision I really enjoyed your comments above. I find it absolutey amazing that there are so many who still think there is no need to be prepared because we have plenty of time; who want to close their ears and cover their eyes if anything is a bit uncomfortable for them or shifts their traditional beliefs and shakes up thier paradigms a bit.. We are in some amazing times!

[lundbaek]

I note no signs of apathy and complacency toward home & visiting teaching, missionary work, reactivation, or temple readiness and attendance on the part of local church leaders. These responsibilities and the related principles of the gospel we hear and read of constantly. We are taught that unless we faithfully honour these responsibilities we will be held accountable. Why are we no longer taught that unless we members of the Church do all we can to preserve the freedoms we have, within the bounds of the laws of God, we will be held accountable?

[Squally]

I note no signs of apathy and complacency toward home & visiting teaching, missionary work, reactivation, or temple readiness and attendance on the part of local church leaders. These responsibilities and the related principles of the gospel we hear and read of constantly. We are taught that unless we faithfully honour these responsibilities we will be held accountable. Why are we no longer taught that unless we members of the Church do all we can to preserve the freedoms we have, within the bounds of the laws of God, we will be held accountable?

Because the chains are already upon us. When enslaved, it is much more difficult to preserve freedom because it has already been lost...

[freedomforall]

Why are we no longer taught that unless we members of the Church do all we can to preserve the freedoms we have, within the bounds of the laws of God, we will be held accountable?

As submitted in my first post, I again relate part of what President Benson had to say.

President Benson said in a conference that those who are not willing to stand up for freedom do not deserve to be an American citizen, and warned against complacency. He also states that by actively doing something for the cause of freedom may well save one's soul. Sounds like we have a lot of personal responsibility.

He also states that government issues should be talked about in church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgNZ0aTKQAo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Silver]

I have found the comments on this thread very interesting.

1. As for the Prophets and Apostle's not giving "firebrand" talks anymore like Benson gave. We are an International Church now with more member outside of the US than in the US so a message about the US Constitution may not be appropiate for a General Conference audience. I know the the words of the prophets are watched and studied very carefully by the enemies of the church. I would love to be a fly on the wall when the President of the US visits church headquarters, I imagine that the topic of conversations are not all warm and fuzzy like the media shots portray. I may be off but I remember the sequence of events that Bush visited church headquarters on a Sunday and Stephen Jones resigned from BYU on the following Tuesday, just a coincidence right?

2. The Leaders give us what we want to hear. The Israelites wanted an idol to worship so they made one. The members only want milk not meat. I serve as a 1st Counselor in a Bishopric. The month that we conduct in our ward we speak one of the Sundays. I have learned from experience that the members don't want to hear about preparedness. Good faithful members rolling their eyes as I spoke to them about "All is well in Zion". It has gotten to the point that some of them get up and leave when I get up to speak. They don't want to hear anything that is not mundane gospel topics. They are members that live for the culture and traditions of the church, not to hear the doctrine. The wheat will separate from the tares on it's own. One member of my ward engaged me after a talk to make his point that the coming of the Savior is more than 300 years away so why spend time worrying about it now. He is a good faithful member that serves dilligently in all his callings, but he just will not open his mind to the sense of our awful situation. He hides behind things like " the Gospel has not spread to all the Earth yet" so the second coming cannot be that close. I can't read books that are written by Skousen, or Monnett or other authors because they are not the words of the Prophets. The church would not be spending billions developing downtown Salt Lake if the second coming was that close. He has found the signs of his times that confirm his set of beliefs. The patterns in the scriptures show that the members declined in righteousness because of apathy and complacency. I don't wonder why the members are so apathetic, it is the destiny of the church to crumble because of the wickedness of the members.

I say fasten your seatbelts the ride is about to get very interesting.

Do you still maintain the feelings that motivated you to write the post above? (I like what you wrote, by the way.)

[eddie]

I have thought long and hard as to how or why people become complacent, or worse yet..apathetic concerning the dangers we have been faced with for many decades. And you know what? I wonder if it isn't because we hear in conference and our church meetings from those who say something like this "the future looks bright". It's not my intention to criticize anyone. I simply wonder if statements like this tend to cause defenses to slacken, worries to weaken, concerns to fade and actions to deminish, when in reality we are faced with an enormous satanic spider striving to devour us if we don't wake up... and act.

As long as people are comfortable,they don't care, but the squaking will start when it's too late. /color]

Do members of the church, (numbers are insignificant) feel or assume God will take care of everyt? That when danger comes our way He will avert it without any action on our part? That's a dangerous attitude, faith without works...

These Prophets don't declare such a message. Just the opposite. It is our duty to cause a stir around us in awakening everyone to the potential overthrow of our freedoms. Normal, calm people are not as outspoken as some, we need to get mad! ( I for one am slow to anger as evidenced in my posts) Here is one such admonishment.

"We encourage every person and every group who is sincerely seeking to study constitutional principles and awaken a sleeping and apathetic people to the alarming conditions that are rapidly advancing about us. We wish all of our citizens throughout the land were participating in some type of organized self-education in order that they could better appreciate what is happening and know what they can do about it."

-- President David O. McKay - CR April 1966

Please watch and listen to the video on this site...about 2/3 down. Apparently it can be seen on YouTube as well. http://www.latterdayconservative.com/bl ... -ron-paul/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Two great Prophets have spoken to us about the danger of being complacent and apathetic.

I hear from many members today that say we are not to mix church and government; don't talk about government issues in church. (I've heard this many times from members) But as you listen to these voices standing at a pulpit, declaring and motivating us to action in front of large congregations, and incouraging us to talk about it in church, these individuals that say contrary to this ought to re-examine their line of thinking.

[Figtree]

When I was a young man, we went on a river trip running the middle fork of the Salmon river in Id. On that trip I went for a hike with a couple of young men up to the top of a nearby ridge. After we got back one of the young men on that hike stated to my brother that I deliberately chose the hardest path up the mountain and liked it. I have often thought about that and asked myself why that was true of me, because that is the way I have always lived my life. I have gotten a great deal of criticism by those that see the obvious easier road. But like Thoreau it "has made all the difference."

Call it my version of Lehi's vision, but I believe that the fastest way up is also the steepest. There will always be those who mock, but then they can't see the view from here so how could they rightfully judge the path that leads here?

When this life is over most will still be down in the smog of inversion, they will never be able to see past it and that will be damning to them. But, those of us that are strict in the plain road, seldom question the path looking back, as from that perspective we may easily see that the path was the quickest way to get to where we. That is the confirmation of our faith that can never be had in advance, notwithstanding the fact that we may come to know the trail breaker and never have to question His paths.

Few things worth doing are easy.

I do think that we have an obligation to let our light shine from the heights and appeal to "them" by pointing out the goodness of the fruit and ever beckoning them onto the straight and narrow path, even if "few there be that find it."

I was thinking recently about a youth activity to teach this point. It would have a map with a course to follow along which good gifts would be concealed. The journey would be timed and limited and off the charted path there would be lots of shiny dollar store cheap garbage. Those who were distracted by the easy and obvious sparklys that they could see would lose out on the greater gifts of obedience hidden along the proscribed route, and those who were strict in the plain road who proceeded forth with all haste would find themselves greatly rewarded.

A friendly correction

You quoted Thoreau, but the correct author of the poem is Robert Frost.

~~Robert Frost:

"A Road Not Taken"
"…and that has made all the difference."

[lundbaek]

I wrote earlier "Why are we no longer taught that unless we members of the Church do all we can to preserve the freedoms we have, within the bounds of the laws of God, we will be held accountable?" I am becoming increasingly convinced that protecting freedom is no longer a requirement for exaltation. How can it be at this time ?

[freedomforall]

I wrote earlier "Why are we no longer taught that unless we members of the Church do all we can to preserve the freedoms we have, within the bounds of the laws of God, we will be held accountable?" I am becoming increasingly convinced that protecting freedom is no longer a requirement for exaltation. How can it be at this time ?

Sounds like to me that each generation of leadership get different messages and why they don't match is a mystery. We're expected to pay high regard for Joseph Smith and his teachings, and, oh yes, he believed in learning the Constitution and abiding by it, having planned on running for POTUS, himself. But even that information is obscure to a lot of members. And we seem to ignore the word of God on the matter. So we have to ask ourselves, what source of admonition are to to put in the forefront? Why has the task of learning where our freedom and liberty comes from always on the back burner? And why are we to teach a gospel where freedom and liberty is all but omitted? And yet the Book of Mormon talks about them all over the place. I, for one, do not understand why events in the Book of Mormon do not match the problems of today, enough to get people to take their head out of...you know where.

Has the elite been deceived? It simply annoys me to see our society headed down a slippery slope with no resistance, no scratching, no clawing, no screaming for help...just a whole lot of people going along for the ride like sheep to the slaughter because they're to dumb to know that a fate of death looms.

I think Patrick Henry would bow and shake his head at us with disgust.

Our Founder's and God could easily say...We gave you liberty and freedom, and you people, not everyone, have chosen slavery to tyranny and false security rather than what we gave you so you could think for yourselves, fail or succeed yourselves, be wealthy or poor on your own, to own property and do what you will with it, and last but not least...to have dignity and high self worth according to your own abilities, talents and skills.

[freedomforall]

Spent a sweet week on the middle fork as well....had grizzly swim across less than 20 yds in front of us....climb out...take a dump...then head up the other side of the mountain.

You mean the grizzly left you a farewell gift? :))

[Vision]

I have found the comments on this thread very interesting.

1. As for the Prophets and Apostle's not giving "firebrand" talks anymore like Benson gave. We are an International Church now with more member outside of the US than in the US so a message about the US Constitution may not be appropiate for a General Conference audience. I know the the words of the prophets are watched and studied very carefully by the enemies of the church. I would love to be a fly on the wall when the President of the US visits church headquarters, I imagine that the topic of conversations are not all warm and fuzzy like the media shots portray. I may be off but I remember the sequence of events that Bush visited church headquarters on a Sunday and Stephen Jones resigned from BYU on the following Tuesday, just a coincidence right?

2. The Leaders give us what we want to hear. The Israelites wanted an idol to worship so they made one. The members only want milk not meat. I serve as a 1st Counselor in a Bishopric. The month that we conduct in our ward we speak one of the Sundays. I have learned from experience that the members don't want to hear about preparedness. Good faithful members rolling their eyes as I spoke to them about "All is well in Zion". It has gotten to the point that some of them get up and leave when I get up to speak. They don't want to hear anything that is not mundane gospel topics. They are members that live for the culture and traditions of the church, not to hear the doctrine. The wheat will separate from the tares on it's own. One member of my ward engaged me after a talk to make his point that the coming of the Savior is more than 300 years away so why spend time worrying about it now. He is a good faithful member that serves dilligently in all his callings, but he just will not open his mind to the sense of our awful situation. He hides behind things like " the Gospel has not spread to all the Earth yet" so the second coming cannot be that close. I can't read books that are written by Skousen, or Monnett or other authors because they are not the words of the Prophets. The church would not be spending billions developing downtown Salt Lake if the second coming was that close. He has found the signs of his times that confirm his set of beliefs. The patterns in the scriptures show that the members declined in righteousness because of apathy and complacency. I don't wonder why the members are so apathetic, it is the destiny of the church to crumble because of the wickedness of the members.

I say fasten your seatbelts the ride is about to get very interesting.

Do you still maintain the feelings that motivated you to write the post above? (I like what you wrote, by the way.)

Yes I do but I am not passionate about trying to wake anybody up.

[Silver]

I have found the comments on this thread very interesting.

1. As for the Prophets and Apostle's not giving "firebrand" talks anymore like Benson gave. We are an International Church now with more member outside of the US than in the US so a message about the US Constitution may not be appropiate for a General Conference audience. I know the the words of the prophets are watched and studied very carefully by the enemies of the church. I would love to be a fly on the wall when the President of the US visits church headquarters, I imagine that the topic of conversations are not all warm and fuzzy like the media shots portray. I may be off but I remember the sequence of events that Bush visited church headquarters on a Sunday and Stephen Jones resigned from BYU on the following Tuesday, just a coincidence right?

2. The Leaders give us what we want to hear. The Israelites wanted an idol to worship so they made one. The members only want milk not meat. I serve as a 1st Counselor in a Bishopric. The month that we conduct in our ward we speak one of the Sundays. I have learned from experience that the members don't want to hear about preparedness. Good faithful members rolling their eyes as I spoke to them about "All is well in Zion". It has gotten to the point that some of them get up and leave when I get up to speak. They don't want to hear anything that is not mundane gospel topics. They are members that live for the culture and traditions of the church, not to hear the doctrine. The wheat will separate from the tares on it's own. One member of my ward engaged me after a talk to make his point that the coming of the Savior is more than 300 years away so why spend time worrying about it now. He is a good faithful member that serves dilligently in all his callings, but he just will not open his mind to the sense of our awful situation. He hides behind things like " the Gospel has not spread to all the Earth yet" so the second coming cannot be that close. I can't read books that are written by Skousen, or Monnett or other authors because they are not the words of the Prophets. The church would not be spending billions developing downtown Salt Lake if the second coming was that close. He has found the signs of his times that confirm his set of beliefs. The patterns in the scriptures show that the members declined in righteousness because of apathy and complacency. I don't wonder why the members are so apathetic, it is the destiny of the church to crumble because of the wickedness of the members.

I say fasten your seatbelts the ride is about to get very interesting.

Do you still maintain the feelings that motivated you to write the post above? (I like what you wrote, by the way.)

Yes I do but I am not passionate about trying to wake anybody up.

It is tough these days. Thanks for responding.