Harry Reid Firesides ordered by Nevada's LDS Regional Rep?

[gruden]

I wasn't making an assessment of Harry Reid or any other leader--I was just pointing out that the friend's quandary about following his church leader could easily be cleared by reminding him that he is only required to follow his church leaders if they're following the Lord. It seems that many saints believe they should follow their leaders no matter what. I've heard it said that if a leader misleads you, it's on his head--but that's not true if you knowingly do something wrong just because your leader told you so. This friend ought to inquire of the Lord whether he should carry out his assignment, rather than simply doing it and feeling wrong about it just because he was told to.

Prayer could clear up a lot of other important questions, too, like whether it's appropriate to protest a fireside.

Wise words. Even a man called of God can be led astray. We must be ever vigilant. Seeking the Lord's will is priority #1.

[2wet2burn]

I always thought persecution of the church would come from outside, never from within. I thought it strange when I heard the following quote. At the time it struck out. I'm starting to get a sense of what he meant now.

"On occasion you may even need to stand up for truth and righteousness in the company of other members of the church." M Russel Ballard A Brand New Year 2010

We are all frustrated by what is going on in the government, but we need to react with thoughtfullness, not knee jerk reaction. There is a proper way to resolve concerns and conflicts in the Lord's way. I don't believe protesting a church sponsered fireside is one of them.

[natasha]

I always thought persecution of the church would come from outside, never from within. I thought it strange when I heard the following quote. At the time it struck out. I'm starting to get a sense of what he meant now.

"On occasion you may even need to stand up for truth and righteousness in the company of other members of the church." M Russel Ballard A Brand New Year 2010

We are all frustrated by what is going on in the government, but we need to react with thoughtfullness, not knee jerk reaction. There is a proper way to resolve concerns and conflicts in the Lord's way. I don't believe protesting a church sponsered fireside is one of them.

I agree with you and implore those who are considering protesting this fireside by physically being there with signs, etc., to NOT do so.

[Original_Intent]

Maybe they just want to get the words "Harry Reid" and "fire" associated in everyone's subconscious.

[patriotsaint]

I think it is sad that not filing your taxes was more important to you then being worthy to go to the Temple. I hope you have changed that.

Great stance.

I suppose none of the founding fathers would have been temple worthy either because they actively opposed and disobeyed the laws of England?

Since when is opposing corruption and injustice grounds to have your temple recommend taken away?

[lundbaek]

I am finding LDSs who think it best to accept without question or protest the decision of the responsible church General Authority to invite Senator Reid to speak at the fireside(s). I guess it beats thinking.

[tribrac]

After pondering this a bit, I am decidedly against the idea of protesting/picketing. I believe any such action plays right into enemy hands. If you feel you must take action write letters to SLC, talk with local leaders, and pray for Brother Reid.

Many people would love to see the church lose its Religious non-profit status. From City councilmen, County Assessors, State Reps who want the local property taxes and right up through congress who want the corporate taxes. But the money would be just the beginning as they ultimatley desire to control the churches message.

Protesting at a ward house by MEMBERS takes another step towards the church being defined as political. Would it be so difficult to imagine the 'left' using a Harry Reid protest as justification for picketing Mormons on the 'right'? All the while creating or reinforcing claims that the church is political.

Finally, how do you expect to win against Reid. If a protest is big enough the media will come, they will interview a few protestors--and clip the soundbites to make them look like simpletons or religous zealots straight from David Koresh compound.

Harry Reid will get a couple of minutes to say something like: " I was just here to talk about brotherly love and kindness, there is no place in the church I know and love for such extreme behaviour."

He will come out looking better, the protestors look like fools, and the church loses.

[lundbaek]

Interesting that a member's refusal to pay income taxes is grounds for denial of a temple recommend. While serving as a branch president in Denmark I found members cheating the state welfare system by not reporting moonlighting income. The stake president told me to ignore it andnot deny a temple recommend for that reason.

[gruden]

Interesting that a member's refusal to pay income taxes is grounds for denial of a temple recommend. While serving as a branch president in Denmark I found members cheating the state welfare system by not reporting moonlighting income. The stake president told me to ignore it andnot deny a temple recommend for that reason.

This was also very common in Germany. It was called 'Schwartzarbeit'. The taxes were so high almost everyone had a little side business to bring in a little under-the-table cash to make ends meet, and this included people who received government assistance. In fact, I once spoke with a sister who told us she had mentioned her side-job to a gov't worker in charge of her welfare case, and she told her to basically keep it to herself. It's the way things are done there, it's part of the culture. Everybody does it, and everybody knows everybody is doing it, and they let it slide.

Here in Amerika, welfare recipients stay home and watch TV. In Europe (at least Germany), people try to find whatever side-jobs they can for supplemental income. Which is worse?

[patriotsaint]

Protesting at a ward house by MEMBERS takes another step towards the church being defined as political. Would it be so difficult to imagine the 'left' using a Harry Reid protest as justification for picketing Mormons on the 'right'? All the while creating or reinforcing claims that the church is political.

Since when can only political issues be protested?

He will come out looking better, the protesters look like fools, and the church loses.

I agree the media would do that, but right is right whether the media chooses to sling mud or not. Did the Church back down on proposition 8 because of the media? No.....even though the media tried to make supporters look like uneducated zealots and intolerant hypocrites.

[Wiikwajio]

UPDATE

http://www.independentamerican.org/2010 ... id-update/

[Wiikwajio]

I always thought persecution of the church would come from outside, never from within. I thought it strange when I heard the following quote. At the time it struck out. I'm starting to get a sense of what he meant now.

"On occasion you may even need to stand up for truth and righteousness in the company of other members of the church." M Russel Ballard A Brand New Year 2010

We are all frustrated by what is going on in the government, but we need to react with thoughtfullness, not knee jerk reaction. There is a proper way to resolve concerns and conflicts in the Lord's way. I don't believe protesting a church sponsered fireside is one of them.

My cousin's PB says that he will be required to preach repentance both within and without the church.

Joseph Smith said his greatest enemies were within the church.

[Wiikwajio]

Maybe they just want to get the words "Harry Reid" and "fire" associated in everyone's subconscious.

My wife is still laughing.

[Wiikwajio]

After pondering this a bit, I am decidedly against the idea of protesting/picketing. I believe any such action plays right into enemy hands. If you feel you must take action write letters to SLC, talk with local leaders, and pray for Brother Reid.

Many people would love to see the church lose its Religious non-profit status. From City councilmen, County Assessors, State Reps who want the local property taxes and right up through congress who want the corporate taxes. But the money would be just the beginning as they ultimatley desire to control the churches message.

Protesting at a ward house by MEMBERS takes another step towards the church being defined as political. Would it be so difficult to imagine the 'left' using a Harry Reid protest as justification for picketing Mormons on the 'right'? All the while creating or reinforcing claims that the church is political.

Finally, how do you expect to win against Reid. If a protest is big enough the media will come, they will interview a few protestors--and clip the soundbites to make them look like simpletons or religous zealots straight from David Koresh compound.

Harry Reid will get a couple of minutes to say something like: " I was just here to talk about brotherly love and kindness, there is no place in the church I know and love for such extreme behaviour."

He will come out looking better, the protestors look like fools, and the church loses.

Lack of action against evil is condemned by President Benson and President McKay many times. I trust God will support those that fight Harry Marx Reid.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Christ said I wert that ye were either hot or cold but if ye are lukewarm I will spew you forth from my mouth.

The STANDARD LDS response is to: "Let go let God" in ALL political controversies. They only act when they are in a large group where the VAST majority agrees.

I can still hear the words of President Benson ringing in my ears as I read your comments:
Fourth: "Wait until it becomes popular to do," says the devil, "or, at least until everybody in the Church agrees on what should be done." But this fight for freedom might never become popular in our day. And if you wait until everybody agrees in this Church, you will be waiting through the second coming of the Lord. Would you have hesitated to follow the inspired counsel of the Prophet Joseph Smith simply because some weak men disagreed with him? God's living mouthpiece has spoken to us - are we for him or against him? In spite of the Prophet's opposition to increased federal aid and compulsory unionism, some Church members still champion these freedom-destroying programs. Where do you stand?"

So what you are saying is to wait until it become popular to to do? Harry Reid is supports increased federal aid and compulsory unionism. So I ask: Where do you stand?

And I would love to see the Church stop being subjected to their 501c3 status forced upon them by Marxist following members of the Church. The Church HAS tax exempt status WITHOUT 501c3. It is called the First Amendment. If the members would ALLOW the Church to follow the Constitution instead of the IRC it would be a huge step toward liberty.

There are more than two points of view about what will help and hurt the Church.

Your views seems to be EXCUSE #4!

[Wiikwajio]

Interesting that a member's refusal to pay income taxes is grounds for denial of a temple recommend. While serving as a branch president in Denmark I found members cheating the state welfare system by not reporting moonlighting income. The stake president told me to ignore it andnot deny a temple recommend for that reason.

Please let me be VERY CLEAR. I was not denied a temple recommend because I refused to pay income taxes. I don't owe them and have letters from the IRS that I am not required to file a 1040 and my attorney has informed me that I am not required to file and I have a legal right to believe my Attorney is correct. You cannot really refuse to pay income taxes when you are not required to file or pay.

The SP brought in his tax lawyer First Counselor to one of the several interviews and I asked him what law required me to file a return. He could not tell me. He could not answer ONE question I asked and I asked several. After being totally frustrated I showed him my letters from the IRS and his mouth dropped open. I asked him to please tell me how I was violating the tax laws. He could not. I asked him if he was practicing law here in the SPs room and he backed off completely. I was THEN told I could not have a recommend by this Marxist Harry Reid supporting Stake President because... Well the truth is he could not tell me why or what I needed to do to become worthy but only that he did not feel right about giving me one. I moved to a new Stake and had a temple recommend within a total of two month.

If you are taking welfare, including Social Security, which is, according to the United States Supreme Court, welfare (Social Security was 100% condemned by President Grant) and not earned benefits, then you are a perjurer and a thief. But if Harry Reid can get a Temple Recommend what does it matter who else they let in?

You cannot sit on both sides of the fence. Choose you this day whom ye will serve and stop being lukewarm. Stop being spew. Choose sides. Do exploits for the covenant of liberty...the Constitution of the United States.

In Daniel 11:32 the prophet in prophesying of the last days and of the Beast, says: "And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.”

Webster’s Dictionary defines exploit: (eks-ploit) n. A deed or act, especially one marked by heroism or daring.

What was the last exploit you did? Can you honestly look in the mirror and say: I fulfilled that prophesy because I do exploits for the covenant so I am a man that knows my God?

And remember what the word exploits mean. If you believe that in America that it takes heroism or daring to go to the temple or pay tithing or be a Scout leader then you do not know what the words exploit, heroism or daring mean.

Biblical prophesies often times have many meanings within a single verse and I do not claim to know all their meanings but when I read this in Daniel I cannot help but feel that this is at least one of its meanings:

The Constitution is a covenant, given us by God, that we may be a free people and those that have done wickedly against this covenant have been led away by the flatteries of the government schools and the controlled news media and other agents of the Beast. Therefore, “We the People” that do know our God must now be strong and do EXPLOITS.

[Jason]

The Fireside IS a political event because it is being held in a political year where Harry Reid is fighting for his political life. A pig is a pig no matter how much lipstick you put on it. It is a political event BECAUSE Harry Reid is the Majority Leader in the US Senate and whatever he says is news and political and any one that does not understand that is politically ignorant.

Amen!

[Wiikwajio]

UPDATE

There will be a TEA PARTY protest specifically against Harry Reid in Harry Reid's home town of searchlight Nevada on Saturday the 27th of March beginning in the morning.

Attorney General Independent American Party Candidate Joel F. Hansen has been invited to speak. He is LDS, an Eagle Scout, a Silver Beaver Award winner, a former Bishop and member of the Stake High Counsel.

For more info on Brother Hansen go to: http://www.independentamerican.org/2010 ... iled-suit/

[Wiikwajio]

Protesting at a ward house by MEMBERS takes another step towards the church being defined as political. Would it be so difficult to imagine the 'left' using a Harry Reid protest as justification for picketing Mormons on the 'right'? All the while creating or reinforcing claims that the church is political.

Since when can only political issues be protested?

He will come out looking better, the protesters look like fools, and the church loses.

I agree the media would do that, but right is right whether the media chooses to sling mud or not. Did the Church back down on proposition 8 because of the media? No.....even though the media tried to make supporters look like uneducated zealots and intolerant hypocrites.

I have had WONDERFUL response from the press. If you do not want people that do not know how to talk to the press not to be interviewed you have them direct all questions to a spokesman. If you play the game like a fool they will treat you as a fool. Plan ahead. Have a strategy. Read the Book of Mormon about what Captain Moroni did and Alma did. They did not just march into battle. They had captains and leaders and spokesmen and they played the game of war.

We are in a war. If you walk into a trap you will get slaughtered. So make your own trap and be ready to spring in on the new media.

We get front page coverage all the time and it is positive coverage. LEARN THE GAME!

[Wiikwajio]

haha funny picture. In fairness he could've been about to scratch his nose

Is that a Nevada thing?

I believe it was a tradition passed down from the infamous evil banker Vice President Rockefeller.

http://mydoubts.net/pictures/finger_you_4-446x400.jpg

[skmo]

I always thought persecution of the church would come from outside, never from within...

Look at the Nephites. When many of them became corrupted, they were worse enemies of the church than the Lamanites were.

[Jason]

haha funny picture. In fairness he could've been about to scratch his nose

Is that a Nevada thing?

I believe it was a tradition passed down from the infamous evil banker Vice President Rockefeller.

http://mydoubts.net/pictures/finger_you_4-446x400.jpg

LOL Thank you for the laugh....best one I've had in quite awhile!!!!

[Jason]

I always thought persecution of the church would come from outside, never from within...

Look at the Nephites. When many of them became corrupted, they were worse enemies of the church than the Lamanites were.

Amen! The Nephites were always put in jeopardy by insiders or former insiders....all the way from the beginning with two brothers (sons of a prophet) wanting to do another brother in!

[patriotsaint]

Protesting at a ward house by MEMBERS takes another step towards the church being defined as political. Would it be so difficult to imagine the 'left' using a Harry Reid protest as justification for picketing Mormons on the 'right'? All the while creating or reinforcing claims that the church is political.

Since when can only political issues be protested?

He will come out looking better, the protesters look like fools, and the church loses.

I agree the media would do that, but right is right whether the media chooses to sling mud or not. Did the Church back down on proposition 8 because of the media? No.....even though the media tried to make supporters look like uneducated zealots and intolerant hypocrites.

I have had WONDERFUL response from the press. If you do not want people that do not know how to talk to the press not to be interviewed you have them direct all questions to a spokesman. If you play the game like a fool they will treat you as a fool. Plan ahead. Have a strategy. Read the Book of Mormon about what Captain Moroni did and Alma did. They did not just march into battle. They had captains and leaders and spokesmen and they played the game of war.

We are in a war. If you walk into a trap you will get slaughtered. So make your own trap and be ready to spring in on the new media.

We get front page coverage all the time and it is positive coverage. LEARN THE GAME!

I was supporting your position bud

I simply wanted to point out that we should do what is right and support correct principles regardless of the media response.

[Wiikwajio]

I was supporting your position bud

I simply wanted to point out that we should do what is right and support correct principles regardless of the media response.

I thought you were. I was responding in general.

And I learned how to deal with the media because I did what you said to do. You learn by your mistakes. But do something. Most Mormons will do nothing until the church tells them what to do. This is being a slothful servant and in direct opposition to the teachings of the prophets.

[usaf916]

I know that on this site quoting an MTC President is classed as apostate but Im going to take the risk.

Pres. Ed J Pinegar taught the missionaries that you cant give away what you havent got. If you're not living the gospel yourself then that is what you will give to others. The spirit of disobedience and darkness. If you're not converted you will not convert others.

How can anyone speak with any seriousness about a Harry Reid fireside converting anyone? A man who has just allocated millions of dollars to be used in the destruction of the unborn?

Why should the righteous keep their mouths shut while the wicked go about their work?

Im amazed that God doesn't wipe all of us LDS off the face of the planet and start over again.

Well put LukeAir. The Church is surely at a crossroad. Reminds me of a little tune I know, goes something like, "who's on the Lord's side who?"