Good Behavior Trump Debate Thread

[Doug]

Who will defend Trump now? Let's see if there any good little Luciferians left on LDSFF

So much for the "Good Behavior", that's damned offensive.

You'll get over it.

I have, it's not personal to me.
But it's real personal to you, are you going to ever "get over it".
I am concerned, it is your nature and charactor we're discusing here.

[Doug]

Time to do a DNA check! There's blood on Trump's hands...again. This time, the blood comes from some more dead Yemenis. And the Republicans are dancing in the aisle! We're #1! We're #1! Trump is Making America Grisly Again.

http://news.antiwar.com/2017/07/19/saud ... ern-yemen/

Please explain to me how the Saudis attack equates to Pres. Trump guilty of murder.
Qatar is the location of the largest US military base in the middle east and a good aly.

I have been reading some of your posts and you bring up some pretty good points. You accused me of being ignorant of Pres. Trumps evils, a claim you make with no evidence.

You call anyone who lends any support to Pres. Trump a Luciferian. again with no evidence.
You spew out vitrial and condemnation but no constructive criticism. What better alternative to Pres. Trump would you suggest.
Keep Obama? Hilary Clinton? Bernie Sanders? Who?

I am lead to the conclusion that if you lived during the rebuilding of the temple in Jeruslahem, you would be in an uproar that Cyrus isn't worthy to rebuild the temple because he is a lier, theif, and murderer and therefore no one should support him in his efferts to rebuild the temple.

There is on old saying, "If he were to be hung with and old rope, he would complain about the rope and demand a new one"
Well, I know very well about the old rope, and having reviewed a lot of ropes, the old one is my best choice.

Trump is doing the devil's work. Death, mayhem, families separated by war. Washington DC knows that the Saudis are committing war crimes in Yemen and yet we still sell weapons to those fanatics.

I voted for Darrell Castle for president in 2016.

Darrell Castle is not President, Donald Trump is. Get past it and move on.
Satan is the father of contention, a tool he is quite proficiant with these days with an intent on civil war.
Please stop feeding that fire. Don't make enimies out of those who you are generally in the most agreement.

[Silver]

Who will defend Trump now? Let's see if there any good little Luciferians left on LDSFF

So much for the "Good Behavior", that's damned offensive.

You'll get over it.

I have, it's not personal to me.
But it's real personal to you, are you going to ever "get over it".
I am concerned, it is your nature and charactor we're discusing here.

Don't you worry your pretty little head. I know what I'm about here.

[Doug]

So much for the "Good Behavior", that's damned offensive.

You'll get over it.

I have, it's not personal to me.
But it's real personal to you, are you going to ever "get over it".
I am concerned, it is your nature and charactor we're discusing here.

Don't you worry your pretty little head. I know what I'm about here.

Missionarys don't get teaching apointments and baptisms by condeming every sinner they meet!

Oh, an epifany, so you're not seeking converts.
My apology, my pretty little head assumed that you were seeking converts.
But you have now made it clear to me that you are getting everything you want, contention.

[Silver]

You'll get over it.

I have, it's not personal to me.
But it's real personal to you, are you going to ever "get over it".
I am concerned, it is your nature and charactor we're discusing here.

Don't you worry your pretty little head. I know what I'm about here.

Missionarys don't get teaching apointments and baptisms by condeming every sinner they meet!

Oh, an epifany, so you're not seeking converts.
My apology, my pretty little head assumed that you were seeking converts.
But you have now made it clear to me that you are getting everything you want, contention.

Says the guy with a grand total of 10 posts on the forum.

[Doug]

I have, it's not personal to me.
But it's real personal to you, are you going to ever "get over it".
I am concerned, it is your nature and charactor we're discusing here.

Don't you worry your pretty little head. I know what I'm about here.

Missionarys don't get teaching apointments and baptisms by condeming every sinner they meet!

Oh, an epifany, so you're not seeking converts.
My apology, my pretty little head assumed that you were seeking converts.
But you have now made it clear to me that you are getting everything you want, contention.

Says the guy with a grand total of 10 posts on the forum.

Quality v Quanity!

But in what way does that have anything whatsoever to do with what we were discussing.
None of the writtings in the New Testiment were by Christ, does that discount his teachings?
That is pretty much true of ALL the cannonized scriptures.
Does that change the volitity of what he said? How pertinant is that to accepting the gospel?

I'll bet that your faviorite game in elementary school was dodge ball! And you don't appear to have given up on that yet.

[Silver]

Don't you worry your pretty little head. I know what I'm about here.

Missionarys don't get teaching apointments and baptisms by condeming every sinner they meet!

Oh, an epifany, so you're not seeking converts.
My apology, my pretty little head assumed that you were seeking converts.
But you have now made it clear to me that you are getting everything you want, contention.

Says the guy with a grand total of 10 posts on the forum.

Quality v Quanity!

But in what way does that have anything whatsoever to do with what we were discussing.
None of the writtings in the New Testiment were by Christ, does that discount his teachings?
That is pretty much true of ALL the cannonized scriptures.
Does that change the volitity of what he said? How pertinant is that to accepting the gospel?

I'll bet that your faviorite game in elementary school was dodge ball! And you don't appear to have given up on that yet.

OK, back to what we were discussing then...
Trump is a murderer, a liar and a narcissist. But because he's not Hillary, many thought he would make America great again. However, even before he was elected you could see in his choices for campaign leadership that he was nothing more than a puppet of the Gadiantons and thus no better than Hillary. Once inaugurated his administration filled with all the typical CFR/elitist banker types. But because a name-only Republican was elected president, many conservatives, who should know better, have gone back to their hobbies and lost whatever focus they had. Well, no empire lasts forever. We Americans will also get our chance to live through austerity and authority from without.

[Silver]

Because it's always a good idea to let the government have control over what we think... Is this what you Trumpsters voted for? Control? So the gubmint can know if we're guilty before we even do something wrong? No chance of anything going wrong with a plan like that!

https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/ite ... ol-project

Friday, 21 July 2017
Pentagon Dumps $65 Million Into Mind-control Project
Written by Joe Wolverton, II, J.D.
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Pentagon Dumps $65 Million Into Mind-control Project
The Pentagon’s research arm — the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA — just received $65 million from American taxpayers to develop a way to plug a human brain directly into a computer. According to an announcement by DARPA, the project will create a way to “enable rich two-way communication with the brain at a scale that will help deepen our understanding of that organ’s underlying biology, complexity, and function.” If successful, the Neural Engineering System Design (NESD) will give the Pentagon power to “support potential future therapies for sensory restoration.”

In other words, the federal government is taking money from taxpayers and using it to build a way to manipulate their brains, altering their senses — “vision, hearing, and speech” — in whatever way the feds deem beneficial. One of the first steps, DARPA reports, will be to create “an implantable package.” That is to say, a device that can be put directly into the brains of those selected for the sensory rewiring. One of the proposed interfaces will result in the development of “up to 100,000 untethered, submillimeter-sized ‘neurograin’ sensors implanted onto or into the cerebral cortex.” Yikes.

Once the device is implanted in the brain of the subject, the military could use a “relay station transceiver worn on the head” to “wirelessly power and communicate with the implanted device.” Yikes.

But wait, there’s more!

DARPA reports that a team working at the University of California-Berkley is attempting “to create quantitative encoding models to predict the responses of neurons to external visual and tactile stimuli, and then apply those predictions to structure photo-stimulation patterns that elicit sensory percepts in the visual or somatosensory cortices, where the device could replace lost vision or serve as a brain-machine interface for control of an artificial limb.”

"Predict the responses of neurons." In other words, the person with the Pentagon-powered brain will send messages to the controllers alerting them to thoughts or actions about to percolate to the person’s conscious mind.

Academics have come out in support of the scheme: A paper entitled “The Brain Activity Map Project and the Challenge of Functional Connectomics” includes predictions of the development of “techniques for wireless, noninvasive readout of the activity of neuronal populations.” In simpler terms, this research would allow those in control of the discoveries gleaned from this program to wirelessly access and control the brains of target populations.

Consider this excerpt from the academic study, as well: "This emergent level of understanding could also enable accurate diagnosis and restoration of normal patterns of activity to injured or diseased brains, foster the development of broader biomedical and environmental applications, and even potentially generate a host of associated economic benefits." “Restoration of normal patterns” takes on an eery aspect when viewed in concert with the DARPA connection.

As revealed in the academic study, the NESD is part of a broader plan to give the Pentagon power over the mind, a plan called the BRAIN Initiative — short for Brain Research through Advancing Innovative Neurotechnologies. Development of such mind-control technologies is certainly consistent with DARPA’s recent efforts to speed of the growth of the surveillance state and the increasing sophistication of the tools used to build it.

At The New American we have chronicled the various projects sponsored by the über-secret research and development arm of the military. One of the numerous technologies being pursued by DARPA will not only widen the field of vision of government’s never-blinking eye, but it purports to predict the behavior of those being watched.

Forbes reported that DARPA has contracted with scientists at Carnegie Mellon University to develop “an artificial intelligence system that can watch and predict what a person will ‘likely’ do in the future using specially programmed software designed to analyze various real-time video surveillance feeds. The system can automatically identify and notify officials if it recognized that an action is not permitted, detecting what is described as anomalous behaviors.” Deployment of the devices is anticipated at “airports and bus stations,” but there is little doubt that should these predictive monitors prove successful, they will be installed right there next to the red light cameras already mounted at nearly every intersection in America. Minority Report, anyone?

With millions of tax dollars deposited by BRAIN into its research coffers, DARPA can begin planning to identify brain activity typical of those who could potentially pose a threat to national security. Such people could be eliminated by being brought into a federal government lab run by the National Institutes of Health and having their “diseased” brain healed and brought back into “normal” function.

In its announcement, DARPA names “Detection and Computational Analysis of Psychological Signals (DCAPS)” as one of its primary areas of emphasis in its BRAIN activity. A separate entry on another part of the DARPA website reveals more about DCAPS and how it could be used:

DCAPS tools will be developed to analyze patterns in everyday behaviors to detect subtle changes associated with post-traumatic stress disorder, depression and suicidal ideation. In particular, DCAPS hopes to advance the state-of-the-art in extraction and analysis of “honest signals” from a wide variety of sensory data inherent in daily social interactions. DCAPS is not aimed at providing an exact diagnosis, but at providing a general metric of psychological health.

DCAPS also aims to develop novel algorithms for detecting distress cues from users who opt in to provide data such as text and voice communications, daily patterns of sleeping, eating, social interactions and online behaviors, and nonverbal cues such as facial expression, posture and body movement. The outcomes of these analytical algorithms would be correlated with distress markers from neurological sensors for improved understanding of distress cues.

There is legitimate reason to oppose the NESD and the entire BRAIN Initiative. As has been demonstrated, Washington considers patriots “home-grown terrorists,” and there is little doubt that any technologies developed by grants from the Pentagon’s efforts to directly control the minds of veterans and other Americans could eventually be used to identify those with tendencies toward suspect thoughts and to use the map of the brain to re-program patriots and eliminate the threat they are accused of posing to national security.

[iWriteStuff]

Quality v Quanity!

But in what way does that have anything whatsoever to do with what we were discussing.
None of the writtings in the New Testiment were by Christ, does that discount his teachings?
That is pretty much true of ALL the cannonized scriptures.
Does that change the volitity of what he said? How pertinant is that to accepting the gospel?

Most of the time, the Prophets (as well as Christ Himself) preached so that the people would be left without excuse.

“Thus it appears,” writes O. Cullmann, “that the coming of the Kingdom does not depend upon the success of this ‘preaching’ but only on the fact of the proclamation itself.” What does depend on the preaching is (1) the salvation of the preacher, who is under condemnation unless he bears witness and frees himself of “the blood of this generation,” and (2) the convicting of a wicked world which must be “without excuse” in the day of judgment. The preaching is not to convert the world but “for a witness”—martyria occurs more than six times as frequently as kerygma in the New Testament—and it has long been recognized that the primary qualification and calling of an apostle was to be an eye witness. The calling of a witness is to preach to an unbelieving generation ripe for destruction, with the usual expectation (as the name “martyr” indicates) of being rejected and put to death.
- Hugh Nibley, Mormonism and Early Christianity

How's that for quality?

Why did Ether preach? Why did Mormon preach? Neither the Jaredites or the Nephites were interested in the message either. This is the same message being delivered now. Especially since these are the same sins we see repeated in our day.

You don't have to be convinced, but you do have to be warned.

[Silver]

Time to do a DNA check! There's blood on Trump's hands...again. This time, the blood comes from some more dead Yemenis. And the Republicans are dancing in the aisle! We're #1! We're #1! Trump is Making America Grisly Again.

http://news.antiwar.com/2017/07/19/saud ... ern-yemen/

Please explain to me how the Saudis attack equates to Pres. Trump guilty of murder.
Qatar is the location of the largest US military base in the middle east and a good aly.

I have been reading some of your posts and you bring up some pretty good points. You accused me of being ignorant of Pres. Trumps evils, a claim you make with no evidence.

You call anyone who lends any support to Pres. Trump a Luciferian. again with no evidence.
You spew out vitrial and condemnation but no constructive criticism. What better alternative to Pres. Trump would you suggest.
Keep Obama? Hilary Clinton? Bernie Sanders? Who?

I am lead to the conclusion that if you lived during the rebuilding of the temple in Jeruslahem, you would be in an uproar that Cyrus isn't worthy to rebuild the temple because he is a lier, theif, and murderer and therefore no one should support him in his efferts to rebuild the temple.

There is on old saying, "If he were to be hung with and old rope, he would complain about the rope and demand a new one"
Well, I know very well about the old rope, and having reviewed a lot of ropes, the old one is my best choice.

Trump is doing the devil's work. Death, mayhem, families separated by war. Washington DC knows that the Saudis are committing war crimes in Yemen and yet we still sell weapons to those fanatics.

I voted for Darrell Castle for president in 2016.

Darrell Castle is not President, Donald Trump is. Get past it and move on.
Satan is the father of contention, a tool he is quite proficiant with these days with an intent on civil war.
Please stop feeding that fire. Don't make enimies out of those who you are generally in the most agreement.

I've been contemplating this message of yours, "Get past it and move on." You do realize you're asking me to excuse murder, don't you? Quite impossible.

[Silver]

If this goes down, you Trump supporters owe the world a huge apology.

swampy giuliani.jpg (107.96 KiB) Viewed 1142 times

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-2 ... iani-axios

Trump Said To Consider Replacing Jeff Sessions With Rudy Giuliani: Axios

Tyler Durden's picture
by Tyler Durden
Jul 24, 2017 9:51 AM

On Monday morning, Trump took another swipe at Attorney General Jeff Sessions, with whom he expressed displeasure recently for recusing himself from the Russian probe, when in a tweet he said "why aren't the Committees and investigators, and of course our beleaguered A.G., looking into Crooked Hillarys crimes & Russia relations?"

Follow
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
So why aren't the Committees and investigators, and of course our beleaguered A.G., looking into Crooked Hillarys crimes & Russia relations?
7:49 AM - 24 Jul 2017

And, as Axios reports moments ago, Trump is reportedly "so unhappy with Attorney General Jeff Sessions that he has raised the possibility of bringing back Rudolph Giuliani to head the Justice Department, according to West Wing confidants." Axios notes that in internal conversations, Trump has recently proposed the idea of nominating Giuliani, "a stalwart of his campaign."

Of course, this could be just another rumor, or merely a trial balloon:

Trump often muses about possible personnel moves that he never makes, sometimes just to gauge the listener's reaction. So the Giuliani balloon may go nowhere.
Or perhaps tired of getting nowehere with his original staff, Trump means it this time: Axios notes that "Giuliani would have a tough time getting 50 Republicans senators to vote to confirm him. He was such an early and ardent Trump backer that he wouldn't be seen as an independent guardian of the department in these tumultuous times." Furthermore, the nomination could be seen as Trump "throwing gasoline on a fire. And Giuliani's stop-and-frisk police policy as New York mayor, and clients since then, also would be controversial with many senators."

Additionally, Axios noted over the weekend Newt Gingrich, another notable backer of the Trump, may take a more visible, frequent role as a defender as Trump girds for battle with special counsel Bob Mueller.

[Doug]

Please explain to me how the Saudis attack equates to Pres. Trump guilty of murder.
Qatar is the location of the largest US military base in the middle east and a good aly.

I have been reading some of your posts and you bring up some pretty good points. You accused me of being ignorant of Pres. Trumps evils, a claim you make with no evidence.

You call anyone who lends any support to Pres. Trump a Luciferian. again with no evidence.
You spew out vitrial and condemnation but no constructive criticism. What better alternative to Pres. Trump would you suggest.
Keep Obama? Hilary Clinton? Bernie Sanders? Who?

I am lead to the conclusion that if you lived during the rebuilding of the temple in Jeruslahem, you would be in an uproar that Cyrus isn't worthy to rebuild the temple because he is a lier, theif, and murderer and therefore no one should support him in his efferts to rebuild the temple.

There is on old saying, "If he were to be hung with and old rope, he would complain about the rope and demand a new one"
Well, I know very well about the old rope, and having reviewed a lot of ropes, the old one is my best choice.

Trump is doing the devil's work. Death, mayhem, families separated by war. Washington DC knows that the Saudis are committing war crimes in Yemen and yet we still sell weapons to those fanatics.

I voted for Darrell Castle for president in 2016.

Darrell Castle is not President, Donald Trump is. Get past it and move on.
Satan is the father of contention, a tool he is quite proficiant with these days with an intent on civil war.
Please stop feeding that fire. Don't make enimies out of those who you are generally in the most agreement.

I've been contemplating this message of yours, "Get past it and move on." You do realize you're asking me to excuse murder, don't you? Quite impossible.

No, I'm not. Just questioning your defintion of murder.
Did Saul murder all the Amalikites? Did Joshua murder the cannanites? Did Capt. Moroni, Mormon and Moroni murder all those lamanites?
Who is it that Pres. Trump murdered? It wasn't him who attacked Yemen of Qatar, that was the Saudis. Hi did indeed attacked Syria, but that was war. So name someone Pres. Trump murdered.
Where as with the clintons, there is actually a list of names, the latest being that clinton aid.

But the real question here is what do you intend to gain from all your vitrial here. Do you really think you can remove him from office. And if you do, who will replace him? Do you want a more traditional Republican to replace him, or a democrat?
But I think two things, your hatred of Mr. trump has blinded you, and all you really want is to get even with those who support him.

Are you going to go back to elementary school and play dodge truth again or are you going to put on you big boy pants and face this? You are not going to change anybodys mind here, you are not hurting anyone here but yourself.

There is an interesting doctrine in the church, it is called forgiveness, not repentance, but forgiveness of a persived offense against you. The perceived offender is generally not affected whether you forgive them or not. But you are. If you forgive, you have given it all the time it deserves. But if you do not, it festers, robing more and more of your time and good spirit, usually becoming even greater harm to you than the original perceived offense. Such a shame. Such a self inflicted injury. And if the original offense was intentional, the he has gotten you to do his bidding.

I have noticed a particular unlawful police activity in other states. And that activity is in increasing. I became concered about my state because I myself have been a victim of illegal police activity. So I investigated to see at what level this is occuring in my state. And I inqueried polititions and LEOs to see if they think there is a problem. And they don't, But the problem does exist but not to the same extent as in other states. So, I have found a state legislator that is atleast willing to listen to me and has asked about what the legislation could be to reduce the problem. And I have responded.
I could have gotten on forums and be perfectly justified in condeming all that has happened to me and others with great eloquence and vitriol, but to what end. Vinegar does not catch flies. Instead, I'm actually pursuing a solution to the problem. The time I spend as a result of the offences to me may someday prevent those same offences against someone else. This instead of filling me with anger, hatred, and vitriol. Try it, you'll like it.

[Silver]

Trump is doing the devil's work. Death, mayhem, families separated by war. Washington DC knows that the Saudis are committing war crimes in Yemen and yet we still sell weapons to those fanatics.

I voted for Darrell Castle for president in 2016.

Darrell Castle is not President, Donald Trump is. Get past it and move on.
Satan is the father of contention, a tool he is quite proficiant with these days with an intent on civil war.
Please stop feeding that fire. Don't make enimies out of those who you are generally in the most agreement.

I've been contemplating this message of yours, "Get past it and move on." You do realize you're asking me to excuse murder, don't you? Quite impossible.

No, I'm not. Just questioning your defintion of murder.
Did Saul murder all the Amalikites? Did Joshua murder the cannanites? Did Capt. Moroni, Mormon and Moroni murder all those lamanites?
Who is it that Pres. Trump murdered? It wasn't him who attacked Yemen of Qatar, that was the Saudis. Hi did indeed attacked Syria, but that was war. So name someone Pres. Trump murdered.
Where as with the clintons, there is actually a list of names, the latest being that clinton aid.

But the real question here is what do you intend to gain from all your vitrial here. Do you really think you can remove him from office. And if you do, who will replace him? Do you want a more traditional Republican to replace him, or a democrat?
But I think two things, your hatred of Mr. trump has blinded you, and all you really want is to get even with those who support him.

Are you going to go back to elementary school and play dodge truth again or are you going to put on you big boy pants and face this? You are not going to change anybodys mind here, you are not hurting anyone here but yourself.

There is an interesting doctrine in the church, it is called forgiveness, not repentance, but forgiveness of a persived offense against you. The perceived offender is generally not affected whether you forgive them or not. But you are. If you forgive, you have given it all the time it deserves. But if you do not, it festers, robing more and more of your time and good spirit, usually becoming even greater harm to you than the original perceived offense. Such a shame. Such a self inflicted injury. And if the original offense was intentional, the he has gotten you to do his bidding.

I have noticed a particular unlawful police activity in other states. And that activity is in increasing. I became concered about my state because I myself have been a victim of illegal police activity. So I investigated to see at what level this is occuring in my state. And I inqueried polititions and LEOs to see if they think there is a problem. And they don't, But the problem does exist but not to the same extent as in other states. So, I have found a state legislator that is atleast willing to listen to me and has asked about what the legislation could be to reduce the problem. And I have responded.
I could have gotten on forums and be perfectly justified in condeming all that has happened to me and others with great eloquence and vitriol, but to what end. Vinegar does not catch flies. Instead, I'm actually pursuing a solution to the problem. The time I spend as a result of the offences to me may someday prevent those same offences against someone else. This instead of filling me with anger, hatred, and vitriol. Try it, you'll like it.

Thanks for taking the time to type all that. It was however a waste of your time and effort to do so. You lost me at:
"Who is it that Pres. Trump murdered? It wasn't him who attacked Yemen of Qatar, that was the Saudis. Hi did indeed attacked Syria, but that was war. So name someone Pres. Trump murdered."

Our understanding of this issue is so disparate that I see no benefit from engaging with you further. By the way, just by way of advice, you can make it easier for others to understand and enjoy your posts if you would proofread your message and use spellcheck before clicking on the Submit button.

[Doug]

Darrell Castle is not President, Donald Trump is. Get past it and move on.
Satan is the father of contention, a tool he is quite proficiant with these days with an intent on civil war.
Please stop feeding that fire. Don't make enimies out of those who you are generally in the most agreement.

I've been contemplating this message of yours, "Get past it and move on." You do realize you're asking me to excuse murder, don't you? Quite impossible.

No, I'm not. Just questioning your defintion of murder.
Did Saul murder all the Amalikites? Did Joshua murder the cannanites? Did Capt. Moroni, Mormon and Moroni murder all those lamanites?
Who is it that Pres. Trump murdered? It wasn't him who attacked Yemen of Qatar, that was the Saudis. Hi did indeed attacked Syria, but that was war. So name someone Pres. Trump murdered.
Where as with the clintons, there is actually a list of names, the latest being that clinton aid.

But the real question here is what do you intend to gain from all your vitrial here. Do you really think you can remove him from office. And if you do, who will replace him? Do you want a more traditional Republican to replace him, or a democrat?
But I think two things, your hatred of Mr. trump has blinded you, and all you really want is to get even with those who support him.

Are you going to go back to elementary school and play dodge truth again or are you going to put on you big boy pants and face this? You are not going to change anybodys mind here, you are not hurting anyone here but yourself.

There is an interesting doctrine in the church, it is called forgiveness, not repentance, but forgiveness of a persived offense against you. The perceived offender is generally not affected whether you forgive them or not. But you are. If you forgive, you have given it all the time it deserves. But if you do not, it festers, robing more and more of your time and good spirit, usually becoming even greater harm to you than the original perceived offense. Such a shame. Such a self inflicted injury. And if the original offense was intentional, the he has gotten you to do his bidding.

I have noticed a particular unlawful police activity in other states. And that activity is in increasing. I became concered about my state because I myself have been a victim of illegal police activity. So I investigated to see at what level this is occuring in my state. And I inqueried polititions and LEOs to see if they think there is a problem. And they don't, But the problem does exist but not to the same extent as in other states. So, I have found a state legislator that is atleast willing to listen to me and has asked about what the legislation could be to reduce the problem. And I have responded.
I could have gotten on forums and be perfectly justified in condeming all that has happened to me and others with great eloquence and vitriol, but to what end. Vinegar does not catch flies. Instead, I'm actually pursuing a solution to the problem. The time I spend as a result of the offences to me may someday prevent those same offences against someone else. This instead of filling me with anger, hatred, and vitriol. Try it, you'll like it.

Thanks for taking the time to type all that. It was however a waste of your time and effort to do so. You lost me at:
"Who is it that Pres. Trump murdered? It wasn't him who attacked Yemen of Qatar, that was the Saudis. Hi did indeed attacked Syria, but that was war. So name someone Pres. Trump murdered."

Our understanding of this issue is so disparate that I see no benefit from engaging with you further. By the way, just by way of advice, you can make it easier for others to understand and enjoy your posts if you would proofread your message and use spellcheck before clicking on the Submit button.

Well, you"ll continue to find all the fault you look for in others!

[iWriteStuff]

Well, you"ll continue to find all the fault you look for in others!

And you may continue to be willfully blind. It is no insult to democracy to stand against wickedness, even if you voted for them. Obama's supporters knew it was wrong to bomb Syria and called him out on it. That is active participation in the political process, and is patriotic. Trump bombs Syria and half his supporters condemn it (while still supporting Trump generally) and the other half condone it as "war", even when there is no declaration of war.

Which do you support, Trump or the Constitution? You can't support the Constitution and justify unconstitutional wars.

[Doug]

Well, you"ll continue to find all the fault you look for in others!

And you may continue to be willfully blind. It is no insult to democracy to stand against wickedness, even if you voted for them. Obama's supporters knew it was wrong to bomb Syria and called him out on it. That is active participation in the political process, and is patriotic. Trump bombs Syria and half his supporters condemn it (while still supporting Trump generally) and the other half condone it as "war", even when there is no declaration of war.

Which do you support, Trump or the Constitution? You can't support the Constitution and justify unconstitutional wars.

I'm not blind to it, I see far more that I've said. I interpret some things a little different than you, but not blind. Have I not compared Mr. Trump to Cyrus?

I have studied the NWO and all that goes along with it. I can tell you all the organizations, what they do and how they are related. I know of evils beyond belief, and the names that go with them. And if Mr. Trump is 10 times as bad as you think, he's a school boy in comparison to most in congress, even some you would think as good guys. But at some point enough is enough. I have friends who have become so wrapped up in discovering all the evil in the world, they have no time for the good stuff.
No, I'm not blind, I just understand that even Cyrus, who clearly rebuilt the temple for his purposes was still a tool in the hand of God. And I see some of the same in Mr. Trump. Also, Sometimes it is true that the enemies of my enemy may not be my friend, but he's not my enemy. When Satan causes his followers to express this much animosity towards anything, there is a good chance that it is Satan's enemy.
Mr. Trump has undone a lot of the evil that Obama has done and he will do more.
No, not blind at all, I just see such an overwhelmingly greater evil than Mr. Trump.

[iWriteStuff]

Well, you"ll continue to find all the fault you look for in others!

And you may continue to be willfully blind. It is no insult to democracy to stand against wickedness, even if you voted for them. Obama's supporters knew it was wrong to bomb Syria and called him out on it. That is active participation in the political process, and is patriotic. Trump bombs Syria and half his supporters condemn it (while still supporting Trump generally) and the other half condone it as "war", even when there is no declaration of war.

Which do you support, Trump or the Constitution? You can't support the Constitution and justify unconstitutional wars.

I'm not blind to it, I see far more that I've said. I interpret some things a little different than you, but not blind. Have I not compared Mr. Trump to Cyrus?

I have studied the NWO and all that goes along with it. I can tell you all the organizations, what they do and how they are related. I know of evils beyond belief, and the names that go with them. And if Mr. Trump is 10 times as bad as you think, he's a school boy in comparison to most in congress, even some you would think as good guys. But at some point enough is enough. I have friends who have become so wrapped up in discovering all the evil in the world, they have no time for the good stuff.
No, I'm not blind, I just understand that even Cyrus, who clearly rebuilt the temple for his purposes was still a tool in the hand of God. And I see some of the same in Mr. Trump. Also, Sometimes it is true that the enemies of my enemy may not be my friend, but he's not my enemy. When Satan causes his followers to express this much animosity towards anything, there is a good chance that it is Satan's enemy.
Mr. Trump has undone a lot of the evil that Obama has done and he will do more.
No, not blind at all, I just see such an overwhelmingly greater evil than Mr. Trump.

May you be rewarded for your faith in Trump. Others of us on this forum see him as complicit with those evil forces you mention. Otherwise, why go along with their plans?

Bombing Syria is clearly an NWO objective.
Appointing globalist bankers to the cabinet is clearly an NWO move.
Excusing an avowed NWO member for her crimes (Hillary "She's good people" Clinton) is clearly an NWO move.
Selling arms to nations who promote genocide and crimes against humanity (Saudis vs Yemen) is clearly an NWO move.
Heavily backing a socialized insurance program remake (ObamaCare 2.0) is clearly an NWO move.

He tends to say the right things at the right time to the right people, but when it comes to action - you see an NWO plan unfolding with accelerated speed. Don't excuse it. Call it out. Either he's deaf to his constituents who call it out or he doesn't care. You decide which is worse.

[Irrelevant]

Serragon suggested a Trump debate thread without name-calling or character assassination. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45639&p=786252#p786250

Great idea.

Let's have a few basic rules:
1. No name-calling or character assassination or ad hominem.
2. No fallacies that often appear in debates such as false dichotomy or shotgun argumentation ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies )
3. No moving on to the next topic until all parties withdraw or one side concedes.
4. Whoever asserts something must also prove it.

(The foregoing rules may be revised or added to as the need arises.)

Feelings are tender, but let's be mature.

I'll go first:

It is extremely frustrating that Trump supporters (with the exception of larsenb, as far as I know) continually fail to admit that the President is exercising military might in opposition to the Constitution and holy writ. Attached to this issue, and of even greater consequence, is that innocent people died in the attack.

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast ... story.html
https://www.bustle.com/p/how-many-peopl ... toll-49771

To have an intellectually honest discussion, facts cannot be summarily dismissed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_honesty

My assertion is that Trump is an oath-breaker and a murderer.

That didn't last long, did it? Ha ha.

Doug asked for a better alternative to Trump. Castle was that alternative but America refuses to pull herself out of a stale, two party system where (as someone stated on latter day conservative) the parties are merely two wings on the same buzzard. So most Americans blew it yet again and will unfortunately continue to do so.

In fact, I can think of several of the republican candidates that would have been better than what we are stuck with now but of those we had Rand Paul for goodness' sake.

[Doug]

That is not what I asked. Clearly, before the election, there were many choices better than the availible candidates. And Rand Paul was definatly one of, if not the, best.
What I asked for, and never got a response on, is what now. Now that Mr. Trump IS president, to what end is all the contention and vitriol. What are you trying to do other than create contention.
Being a pragmatist, and understanding the current state of things at the time, any vote for anyone other than Mr. Trump would have put HRC in the office. That would have been a huge disaster.

I'll tell you to what end. There have been in the works, over many years, social engineering afoot. The goal of this social engineering is to create waring dicotomies. Divisions between people. Us vs them attitudes. Bogotry of any and all flavors.
And the anti-trump vs trump-supporters are buying into this just like all the rest. Hate rom both sides, anger from both sides, vitriol and contention from both sides. With justification on both sides. With righteous indignation on both sides. While the pupet masters set back and say "look what we have done TO BOTH SIDES".
But again, to what end. To bring down the most hated form of government ever by evil. To make people willing to throw away the second best government ever had on this earth in order to justify their position. Look around and tell me that is not what is in progress today. Rule of law is being trampled by BOTH SIDES of all issues. And again, to what end, Civil War, war between this and that faction justifying suspension of the constitution to deal with the crisis. And the police are being primed for this as well, it's called the militarization of the police.
And you guys are all buying into it, BOTH SIDES. How far are you willing to go to justify yourselves, apposticy, bloodshed?
There are substantial arguments and petty arguments on both sides, but are they worth loosing the constitution over?
In my oppinion, the constitution is hanging by a thread now so what I needto do is add what ever tiny thread I can to it. Specially where I live. I can do nothing about Mr. Trump, and frankly none of you can either. So find things at home you can do.
The purpose offederal grants to local police departments is to create a police class vs citizen class. And it's working because we have ignored it for so long. And any violence started anywhere will eventually end up between police and citizens. Look at the news and tell me that there is not a police class that has little respect for the rights and lives of "those ther serve". Why, because we have been hating obama and now trump that we have not held local leaders accountable.
I can go on and on about this, but it will just fall on deaf ears because of your hate/love of trump. Well he is the distraction while your local leaders sare a much bigger threat to your freedom. And you all buy into it.
For example, government licensing of ANY kind is not constitutional. But would you vote to eliminate business licesces, drivers licences, doctors licenses, construction and occupancy permits, etc ... ? NO, you see a value in all that tyranny for you. What about all the city ordanences resricting use of private property all unconstitutiol all tyranny but you all see a value in it for you. City councels and city cops ARE THE BIGGEST THREAT to personal liberties in this country but do you fight against them? NO, you are all distracted by Trump.

So go think on that for a while and think not which side of trump you're on but which side of liberty you're on!
Are you fighting for or against liberty in your home town, and if you're not fighting for it, you fightg against it.

Go fight the skirmishes you can win rather the wars you can't - get off either side of trump and get on the side of personal liberties!

[Silver]

Somebody's getting paid by the word...

Meanwhile, back to reality. There's warmongers among us.

http://theantimedia.org/trump-raytheon- ... tary-army/

Fill the Swamp: Trump to Put Military Industrial Complex Lobbyist in Charge of the Army
July 24, 2017 at 1:14 pm
Written by James Holbrooks

(ANTIMEDIA) — Last Wednesday, it was reported that Donald Trump was moving to nominate Raytheon lobbyist Mark Esper for secretary of the Army. Raytheon is one of the “big five” defense contractors, and the president’s decision comes at a time when concerns are being raised over the idea of defense industry executives being placed in senior positions at the Pentagon.

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Esper, who holds a master’s degree from Harvard and a doctorate from George Washington University, has been Raytheon’s vice president of government relations since 2010. Before that, he held a slew of positions in both the public and private sectors. His resume is extensive, but The Hill managed to succinctly package the high points:

“Esper graduated from West Point in 1986 and rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel before retiring. His Army career includes a combat tour in Iraq during the Gulf War.

“His Capitol Hill experience includes serving as director of national security affairs for then-Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.). He was also policy director for the House Armed Services Committee and a senior professional staff member on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Senate Governmental Affairs Committee.

“From 2002 to 2004, he was the deputy assistant secretary of Defense for negotiations policy. In that role, he was responsible for arms control, nonproliferation, international agreements and matters with the United Nations.

“Esper’s resume also includes serving as national policy director for Fred Thompson’s 2008 presidential campaign and as chief of staff at conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation.”

The Washington Examiner, which broke the news in an exclusive after speaking with unnamed D.C. sources, reported that Pentagon officials “privately expressed confidence that Esper, with his military, Pentagon and Capitol Hill experience, will win quick Senate confirmation.”

That would be a change of pace. Esper’s nomination is Trump’s third attempt to fill the position of Army secretary.

A ROCKY ROAD

Trump’s first choice, New York billionaire and owner of the Florida Panthers hockey team, Vincent Viola, withdrew back in February over concerns about financial conflicts of interest. Like Esper, Viola is a West Point graduate, and he served as an officer with the Army Rangers for years before retirement.

The president’s second pick was Tennessee state senator Mark Green, a West Point grad and retired Army flight surgeon. Green withdrew in May after controversial comments he made in the past about the LGBT community and Muslims came back to haunt him.

In a statement, Green said his words had been “mischaracterized” but that he had to withdraw, expressing his belief that it’s “critical to give the president the ability to move forward with his vision to restore our military to its rightful place in the world” without distractions.

Assuming Mark Esper hangs in there and keeps his name in the running for Army secretary, he’ll need to pass vetting by the Senate Armed Services Committee (SASC). That hearing isn’t expected to take place until September. But it was within that committee, back in June, that SASC chairman John McCain first voiced concern over members of the defense industry taking key positions at the Pentagon.

THE CHAIRMAN MAKES NOISE

In a hearing Defense News called “surprisingly contentious,” McCain threatened to block the SASC confirmation of Patrick Shanahan for deputy defense secretary, the number two spot at the Pentagon below defense secretary James Mattis. One of the reasons, the Arizona senator made clear, was Shanahan’s ties to industry contractors.

Shanahan had been with Boeing since 1986 before accepting Trump’s nomination. He was a member of the Boeing Executive Council and had even earned the nickname “Mr. Fix-it” within the corporation for his ability to turn around troubled projects.

At the hearing, McCain cited Shanahan’s industry past, saying he was “not overjoyed” that the would-be deputy secretary spent so much time at one of the big five defense contractors. He also said Shanahan’s ilk serving at the Pentagon was “not what our Founding Fathers had in mind.”

McCain, a Republican, went further weeks later, bluntly stating in a hallway interview in Congress that he “did not want people from the top five corporations” to fill positions at the Pentagon. Party politics aside, at least some lawmakers across the aisle appear to share his concern.

Senator Jack Reed, a Democrat who sits on the SASC, told Defense News in early July that “real concern about the concentration of these people” exists because decision-making processes may be “influenced by [their] prior employment.”

Similarly, Senator Richard Durbin, another Democrat, said the Trump administration has “turned a blind eye to the whole question of conflicts of interest from start to finish.”

Despite such criticisms, the SASC gave Shanahan the green light, and the Senate officially confirmed him last Tuesday. This means that right now, the two most powerful men at the Pentagon have significant past connections to the defense industry.

For those unaware, for years Secretary of Defense James Mattis was a board member of one of the big five contractors, General Dynamics, and up until the point of his nomination had nearly $600,000 in vested stock options with the corporation, according to Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filings.

LUCKY BREAK

In a convenient bit of timing, John McCain was absent at Shanahan’s full Senate confirmation on July 18, as he was recovering from surgery to remove a blood clot, which ultimately revealed a brain tumor. The same could be said for Ellen Lord, who went through SASC vetting relatively unscathed on the very same day and now awaits the committee’s nod to move on to a full Senate vote.

Lord has been CEO of Textron Systems, a global aerospace and defense conglomerate, since 2012. As with what happened to Shanahan, Lord likely would have faced a harsh grilling from McCain. Commenting on Lord’s smooth sail through her SASC hearing, Defense News wrote:

“That may have been due to the absence of Sen. John McCain, the Arizona Republican who chairs SASC. McCain, recuperating at home from a recent surgery, previously told Defense News he is concerned about the number of defense industry figures entering key Pentagon roles.”

The same good fortune was bestowed upon a former Lockheed Martin vice president on Thursday. Ryan McCarthy passed his SASC vetting for undersecretary of the Army, and if the Senate eventually confirms both him and Mark Esper, it would mean the top two Army positions at the Pentagon would be filled by defense industry executives.

It was speculated that former Lockheed Martin attorney David Ehrhart would come under heavy scrutiny at his SASC hearing for Air Force General Counsel, the department’s chief legal officer. The same would have surely gone for John Rood, Trump’s expected pick for undersecretary of defense for policy and current head of international sales at Lockheed.

But with the SASC confirming defense industry figures in McCain’s absence, it now appears the Arizona senator’s leeriness was the only substantive thing holding up the show.

DOWN A DARK PATH

Like Senator Richard Durbin and others in Congress who don’t like the emerging trend under Donald Trump, most in the mainstream media will only go so far as to highlight the myriad conflicts of interest between the Trump administration and the corporate world.

Right now, for example, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is catching fire for being the CEO of ExxonMobil when it violated sanctions on Russia back in 2014. The U.S. Treasury Department just hit Exxon with a $2 million fine for that move, and Exxon promptly filed a lawsuit against the government in response.

There are some, however, like Yale University history professor Timothy Snyder, who are willing to follow the logic to its inevitable conclusion. In a July 15 piece for The Guardian titled “Trump is ushering in a dark new conservatism,” Snyder pointed to far greater — and far more dangerous — implications for the United States.

Breaking down how, due to ignorance and passivity, the conservative government of Germany essentially handed control over to a populist leader in the 1930s, Snyder observed that this is exactly what’s happening within the Republican Party right now. In his closing, the history professor noted the urgency with which the matter should be addressed:

“One of the reasons why the radical right was able to overcome conservatives back in the 1930s was that the conservatives did not understand the threat. Nazis in Germany, like fascists in Italy and Romania, did have popular support, but they would not have been able to change regimes without the connivance or the passivity of conservatives.

“The last time around, the old right chose suicide by midwifery, and it seems to be doing so again. If Republicans do not wish to be remembered (and forgotten) like the German conservatives of the 1930s, they had better find their courage — and their conservatism — fast.”

To be clear, Snyder appeared to be talking about the rise of the American Fascist State.

THE SHAKE UPS BEGIN

Everyone understood very clearly that it would be more of the same under Hillary Clinton had she been elected president. The military campaigns, the arms sales, and the progressive domestic policies would have continued in Barack Obama’s footsteps.

A Trump presidency was the unknown variable. No one could really predict what might happen if The Donald actually made it to the Oval Office, though the quickness and vehemence with which he was labeled a fascist during the 2016 campaign speaks to a considerable body of individuals who sensed and were concerned over his far-right leanings.

Now that he’s in the White House, it’s abundantly apparent that those concerns were justified. In his short time in office, Donald Trump has demonstrated his intention to run his government with his own people and in his own way. And his way — as with Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany — means a restructuring of the government.

For more on this, we can again turn to Rex Tillerson, whose past as a CEO at an oil conglomerate and current position as head of the U.S. State Department make him ideal for highlighting the rapidly developing synergy between government and the corporate world.

Back in May, Tillerson revealed plans for a restructuring of the U.S. State Department. Since then he’s chosen the point man he wants to lead that effort, and as of July 17, has even hired two consulting firms to assist in the process.

Reporting on the story on July 5, Politico wrote that Tillerson is “widely viewed within his department as isolated from and dismissive of career staff” and “considered unapproachable and largely isolated except for a few political appointees who tightly restrict access to him.”

Politico noted that it’s the “career staff,” staff that was already in place at the State Department when Tillerson took over, who feel unappreciated. And with Donald Trump looking to cut the State Department’s budget by 30 percent — estimates suggest this would require the elimination of around 2,300 positions — it’s not hard to imagine the types likely to get canned when Tillerson starts handing out pink slips.

A CHOICE PRESENTED

In an opinion piece back in February, I wrote the following:

“People call Donald Trump Hitler without really considering the words. They just know Hitler was a bad guy and, to them, so is Donald Trump. Few know how he came to power. Few truly understand how he rose to that position.

“Well, look around, folks. Here’s how it happened.”

Ignorance and passivity, as Timothy Snyder noted for The Guardian. Either willingly or unwillingly turning a blind eye to what’s happening around you. This goes not for those in the political arena alone, but for everyone. After all, Nazi Germany couldn’t have happened if the masses hadn’t given in to it.

Americans find themselves at that stage now. It cuts to the very heart of awareness and an awakening to reality. The American Fascist State is rising under the Trump administration. That’s a reality the American people need to start recognizing.

Through either ignorance, indifference, or fear, Republicans have failed to step up and challenge Trump’s push toward the far-right, and the Democrats, still sore over losing last year’s elections, appear content to just keep blathering on about Russian collusion. That puts the onus on you and me.

The internet has given us an advantage over Germans of the 1930s. An interconnected world provides little cover for those with agendas. And if we do have the ability to bear witness to the new system being created long before it’s established and humming along, then that means we also have the ability — and the time — to do something about it.

[Doug]

Somebody's getting paid by the word...

Meanwhile, back to reality. There's warmongers among us.

Your article is over 5 time the size of mine and this is what you have to say?
What hypocrisy. Wow, that is all you have to say about all I said.

It is you not facing reality, so wrapped up in your trump-hate.

You aught to read
"The Law" by Frederick Bastiat
"The Majesty of Gods Law" by W. Cleon Skousen
"Clensing of America" by W. Cleon Skousen.
Your City Ordinances by you city counsels
research "The Right to Drive"

But then even if Captain Moroni visited you, you would not listen.

I challenge everyone on this forum to read the above and then come and tell me of reality
of what is happening in America.

But I know that you, Silver, will not because you have too much invested in your position.
What a shame, still playing dodge ball(truth).

[Doug]

I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact I'm viomently agreeing with you that the mountain is on fire. And because it is the highest mountain, anyone from anywhere can see that the top of the mountain is on fire. But when you look close enough, removing all obsticles, you can see that the whole mountain is on fire. But those that don't see the whole mountain rush to the top to put out the fires. But because the whole mountain is on fire and all that heat rises, it is the hardest place there is to fight the fire. And even if you succeed a little and put aut some fire, it will just flash over again because you are still surounded by fire. And when it does flash over, you have no escape route to safety.
On the other hand, if we did see that the whole mountain was on fire and we thought about it, we would gather at the base of the mountain to fight the fire. Yes, the base of the mountain is much bigger than the top but the fires don't rage as hot, and if enough of us tackle the base, we will make quick and easy progress. And since the heat rises, its not as likely to flash over. But if it does, we can easily escape back down the mountain and start in again. As we progress up the mountain, the fire will get smaller and smaller and the heat rising will deminish. When we reach the top, it will be no more difficult than any other part of the mountain.

I'm not arguing that we are not in serious trouble, just that tackling the the POTUS is a fools errand and we should be focusing on creating safer bases near home first.

There is also a very good chance that while we are securing safe places near our homes, the top of the mountain will just burn itself out - they will be the cause of their own downfall while we watch from our safe places.

[Irrelevant]

That is not what I asked. Clearly, before the election, there were many choices better than the availible candidates. And Rand Paul was definatly one of, if not the, best.
What I asked for, and never got a response on, is what now. Now that Mr. Trump IS president, to what end is all the contention and vitriol. What are you trying to do other than create contention.
Being a pragmatist, and understanding the current state of things at the time, any vote for anyone other than Mr. Trump would have put HRC in the office. That would have been a huge disaster.

I'll tell you to what end. There have been in the works, over many years, social engineering afoot. The goal of this social engineering is to create waring dicotomies. Divisions between people. Us vs them attitudes. Bogotry of any and all flavors.
And the anti-trump vs trump-supporters are buying into this just like all the rest. Hate rom both sides, anger from both sides, vitriol and contention from both sides. With justification on both sides. With righteous indignation on both sides. While the pupet masters set back and say "look what we have done TO BOTH SIDES".
But again, to what end. To bring down the most hated form of government ever by evil. To make people willing to throw away the second best government ever had on this earth in order to justify their position. Look around and tell me that is not what is in progress today. Rule of law is being trampled by BOTH SIDES of all issues. And again, to what end, Civil War, war between this and that faction justifying suspension of the constitution to deal with the crisis. And the police are being primed for this as well, it's called the militarization of the police.
And you guys are all buying into it, BOTH SIDES. How far are you willing to go to justify yourselves, apposticy, bloodshed?
There are substantial arguments and petty arguments on both sides, but are they worth loosing the constitution over?
In my oppinion, the constitution is hanging by a thread now so what I needto do is add what ever tiny thread I can to it. Specially where I live. I can do nothing about Mr. Trump, and frankly none of you can either. So find things at home you can do.
The purpose offederal grants to local police departments is to create a police class vs citizen class. And it's working because we have ignored it for so long. And any violence started anywhere will eventually end up between police and citizens. Look at the news and tell me that there is not a police class that has little respect for the rights and lives of "those ther serve". Why, because we have been hating obama and now trump that we have not held local leaders accountable.
I can go on and on about this, but it will just fall on deaf ears because of your hate/love of trump. Well he is the distraction while your local leaders sare a much bigger threat to your freedom. And you all buy into it.
For example, government licensing of ANY kind is not constitutional. But would you vote to eliminate business licesces, drivers licences, doctors licenses, construction and occupancy permits, etc ... ? NO, you see a value in all that tyranny for you. What about all the city ordanences resricting use of private property all unconstitutiol all tyranny but you all see a value in it for you. City councels and city cops ARE THE BIGGEST THREAT to personal liberties in this country but do you fight against them? NO, you are all distracted by Trump.

So go think on that for a while and think not which side of trump you're on but which side of liberty you're on!
Are you fighting for or against liberty in your home town, and if you're not fighting for it, you fightg against it.

Go fight the skirmishes you can win rather the wars you can't - get off either side of trump and get on the side of personal liberties!

Boy are you ever jumping to some conclusions about "you all". The fact of the matter is that both "sides" are garbage. Those pulling the strings (your analogy) pull them on both "sides".

For all of your talk of social engineering and puppet masters, it's ironic that you bought the lesser of evils narrative and felt like you had no choice but to vote to keep her out.

When you asked, "What better alternative to Pres. Trump would you suggest. Keep Obama? Hilary Clinton? Bernie Sanders? Who?" I interpreted that as before the election since two of the three were running.

[larsenb]

Returning to the topic of murder, it is clear that the average soldier or grunt or airman or sailor who is following orders and who may accidentally kill a noncombatant is not guilty of murder. That burden falls on leadership.

Here is Silver, a Trump hater from the git-go, tagging Trump (albeit here, somewhat indirectly) a murderer. The needle remains stuck on a single groove of the Silver record. I dare say, I could leave this board for 6 months and then come back to the same stuck needle making its rounds, again, and again, and again . . . . etc.

[larsenb]

Here is a Dilbert cartoon appearing in last Sunday's Deseret News. For some reason it reminded me of a particular poster on this thread.

Dilbert-Murderer.JPG (58.78 KiB) Viewed 987 times

Scott Adams, by the way gave one of the best analyses I've read that I think accurately dissected Trump's personality and what he was all about. At the time he published his piece, he said he wasn't going to vote for Trump because he didn't agree with all of his positions. Later, I'd heard that he did vote for Trump.