Stake president shared First presidency letter

[JohnnyL]

I pay my kid's pediatrician and they're a Christ- centered doctor's office, AMA and everything. I think it's great to have a doctor that openly worships God. Their practice is called All God's Children, they have Bible paintings all over the walls, and when I told them I didn't want to vaccinate the doctor said "God gave you this child and so He has determined that you are the one to make the decisions for her and we respect God's will in choosing you."

They'll pray with you if you want and they attribute their success in medicine and healing to God.

Isn't this the way all businesses should be? Every time someone complimented me at work I attributed my success to the spirit working through me. After all, the Spirit will teach us the truth of all things. That includes any business, medicine or otherwise.

Every time you earn a dollar you should give thanks to God; every time you work it should be Christ-centered. It's OK to pray to have God's spirit help you do miraculous things at the workplace, including healing.
Amulek taught:

24 Cry unto him over the crops of your fields, that ye may prosper in them.

25 Cry over the flocks of your fields, that they may increase.

Are we wanting our doctors to check God at the door when they clock-in for work? Was it not God who gave doctors their skills? Should they not rely on His spirit to help heal people and then give God the glory?

Oh no, oh my!! They are certainly less righteous than the atheists, because the atheist doctors don't pray for you or do what they do in the name of Jesus. ;)

[freedomforall]

But I dare say that in each and every case of individuals being part of a corrupt institute or action either in ignorance or with knowledge are going to be judged for not standing apart especially when we have been warned. I hope for their own sakes that the individual goods they do out weight the support they gave to those institutions and actions.

If you can find fault in that logic I would love to hear it.

My mother is a RN. Does that make her evil? No.

It makes the institute that she works for corrupt and not inline with God. Did she know that when she started to work for them? No. But she has woken up to that fact. And even though she is choosing to continue working until she retires in a few years that doesn't make her evil either. That's part of agency.

First off I already said that my mom is a nurse and is not evil.

I sense some cognitive dissonance.

Fine my mother is evil.

=))

I know my mom. She has he faults like everyone. She is a kind person who is good to people.

Vs

AMA. Kills a million plus innocent unborn baby's every year.


If they only did acts of evil do you think the pubic would stand for it?? I don't think so. Satan is smart. He prays on people's weaknesses. He tells 9 truths for every lie. He uses institutions to do evil but also enough good or "perceived" good to hide the the hidden agenda. Slowly degrading people's knowledge and morals to where he can add do more evil and get away with it.


Guns kill around 20,000 in the us every year. And we hear all about that. The AMA kills around half a million every year from "errors." And over a million unborn babies. And what do we hear.......... nothing

You think God has any love for the AMA?

3 Nephi 27:11
But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

Is the AMA built on Gods gospel? No.

Ahhh! Have you ever seen or read anywhere of a gun killing anyone without anyone's finger on the trigger? Guns do not kill people. Evil men using a gun as a killing tool is the problem.

Can't compare guns with AMA. It is evil people doing hideous acts that kill God's children. Abortion and genocide have the same results...death of humans of all ages.

Do you presume to think all the wars read about in the Book of Mormon were unnecessary? A war is justified when homes, families, faith, liberty and freedom are at stake. Moroni didn't sit on his butt and say "oh well, we can't do anything about losing our lives, liberty and freedom." Nor did Helaman and other great, righteous warriors.

Now, when it comes to energy healing, which is nothing more than priestcraft...there is a scripture that describes this very eloquently:

3 Nephi 14
22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mosiah 5:13
13 For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?

D&C 112:26
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord

By merely saying "in the name of Jesus Christ" doesn't mean a thing if the practitioner does not yearn for righteous and serve God 24/7.

Moroni 4:3
3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

[Ezra]

But I dare say that in each and every case of individuals being part of a corrupt institute or action either in ignorance or with knowledge are going to be judged for not standing apart especially when we have been warned. I hope for their own sakes that the individual goods they do out weight the support they gave to those institutions and actions.

If you can find fault in that logic I would love to hear it.

My mother is a RN. Does that make her evil? No.

It makes the institute that she works for corrupt and not inline with God. Did she know that when she started to work for them? No. But she has woken up to that fact. And even though she is choosing to continue working until she retires in a few years that doesn't make her evil either. That's part of agency.

First off I already said that my mom is a nurse and is not evil.

I sense some cognitive dissonance.

Fine my mother is evil.

=))

I know my mom. She has he faults like everyone. She is a kind person who is good to people.

Vs

AMA. Kills a million plus innocent unborn baby's every year.


If they only did acts of evil do you think the pubic would stand for it?? I don't think so. Satan is smart. He prays on people's weaknesses. He tells 9 truths for every lie. He uses institutions to do evil but also enough good or "perceived" good to hide the the hidden agenda. Slowly degrading people's knowledge and morals to where he can add do more evil and get away with it.


Guns kill around 20,000 in the us every year. And we hear all about that. The AMA kills around half a million every year from "errors." And over a million unborn babies. And what do we hear.......... nothing

You think God has any love for the AMA?

3 Nephi 27:11
But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

Is the AMA built on Gods gospel? No.

Ahhh! Have you ever seen or read anywhere of a gun killing anyone without anyone's finger on the trigger? Guns do not kill people. Evil men using a gun as a killing tool is the problem.

Can't compare guns with AMA. It is evil people doing hideous acts that kill God's children. Abortion and genocide have the same results...death of humans of all ages.

Do you presume to think all the wars read about in the Book of Mormon were unnecessary? A war is justified when homes, families, faith, liberty and freedom are at stake. Moroni didn't sit on his butt and say "oh well, we can't do anything about losing our lives, liberty and freedom." Nor did Helaman and other great, righteous warriors.

Now, when it comes to energy healing, which is nothing more than priestcraft...there is a scripture that describes this very eloquently:

3 Nephi 14
22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mosiah 5:13
13 For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?

D&C 112:26
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord

By merely saying "in the name of Jesus Christ" doesn't mean a thing if the practitioner does not yearn for righteous and serve God 24/7.

Moroni 4:3
3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

I am not talking about energy healing. I have been talking about Christ centered healings. Faith.pristhood. And through the words of wisdom.

My reference of guns was to only demonstrate how compared to the AMA the number they kill through evils hands is hardly any vs the ama.

Thanks for agreeing that guns cannot compare to the horrible acts of abortions done by the AMA.

[h_p]

Still no clarification from the OP as to what letter started this whole discussion.

[AI2.0]

I think many here are missing the point.

This isn't "Christ centered healing" : a group of adjectives used to describe relying on our Heavenly Father, excercising faith and being healed whether or not the priesthood is used, by submitting to His will.

This is "Christ Centered Healing" : a phrase chosen and used in a specific manner by a specific group of people to describe energy healing and priestcraft.

Any person who prays to God, in the name of Christ and receives a blessing of healing has experienced "Christ centered healing."

Any person who pays someone to use various "modalities" to heal including but not limited to occult behaviors, and who probably paid a handsome fee to learn those modalities is engaged in "Christ Centered Healing."

Christ centered healing; Thy will be done.

Christ Centered Healing: My will be done.

Not the same.

As a side note, I often feel like a careful reading of the Bible, both Old and New Testament would clear up a lot of this particular confusion. I love the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, The Pearl of Great Price. I also love the clarity of the Bible in these matters. If you need some inspiration to read the Bible, try "Fires of Faith: The Coming Forth of the King James Version of the Bible" on byu.tv.

http://www.byutv.org/Show/123d4a82-3d47 ... 96a5a1ff2c

If you are referring to Ezra's, JohnnyL's and Butterfly's comments, I don't think they are really THAT dense, I believe they know exactly what is being referred to. I know that Johnny is an energy practitioner, so HE certainly knows, I assume Ezra and Butterfly are not practitioners (???) but are defenders of the practice, maybe they use it. I think they are doing their best to muddy the discussion because they don't like to fact that the Church put out a statement that cautioned against 'Christ centered ENERGY HEALING' which they apparently support.

[AI2.0]

I sense some cognitive dissonance.

Fine my mother is evil.

=))

I know my mom. She has he faults like everyone. She is a kind person who is good to people.

Vs

AMA. Kills a million plus innocent unborn baby's every year.


If they only did acts of evil do you think the pubic would stand for it?? I don't think so. Satan is smart. He prays on people's weaknesses. He tells 9 truths for every lie. He uses institutions to do evil but also enough good or "perceived" good to hide the the hidden agenda. Slowly degrading people's knowledge and morals to where he can add do more evil and get away with it.


Guns kill around 20,000 in the us every year. And we hear all about that. The AMA kills around half a million every year from "errors." And over a million unborn babies. And what do we hear.......... nothing

You think God has any love for the AMA?

3 Nephi 27:11
But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

Is the AMA built on Gods gospel? No.

Ahhh! Have you ever seen or read anywhere of a gun killing anyone without anyone's finger on the trigger? Guns do not kill people. Evil men using a gun as a killing tool is the problem.

Can't compare guns with AMA. It is evil people doing hideous acts that kill God's children. Abortion and genocide have the same results...death of humans of all ages.

Do you presume to think all the wars read about in the Book of Mormon were unnecessary? A war is justified when homes, families, faith, liberty and freedom are at stake. Moroni didn't sit on his butt and say "oh well, we can't do anything about losing our lives, liberty and freedom." Nor did Helaman and other great, righteous warriors.

Now, when it comes to energy healing, which is nothing more than priestcraft...there is a scripture that describes this very eloquently:

3 Nephi 14
22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mosiah 5:13
13 For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?

D&C 112:26
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord

By merely saying "in the name of Jesus Christ" doesn't mean a thing if the practitioner does not yearn for righteous and serve God 24/7.

Moroni 4:3
3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

I am not talking about energy healing. I have been talking about Christ centered healings. Faith.pristhood. And through the words of wisdom.

My reference of guns was to only demonstrate how compared to the AMA the number they kill through evils hands is hardly any vs the ama.

Thanks for agreeing that guns cannot compare to the horrible acts of abortions done by the AMA.

Why are you talking about something that is not part of the thread? This thread is about 'christ centered ENERGY HEALING'. If you don't know what that is, you can look up Emotion code or Body code, by Dr. Bradley Nelson. That might help get you on the right page in this discussion.

And the discussion is not about trashing the American Medical Association so why you brought this in, I don't know. There are plenty of Doctors in the AMA who've never performed an abortion and never would. If you want to discuss abortions, start a new thread, please.

[JohnnyL]

I think many here are missing the point.

This isn't "Christ centered healing" : a group of adjectives used to describe relying on our Heavenly Father, excercising faith and being healed whether or not the priesthood is used, by submitting to His will.

This is "Christ Centered Healing" : a phrase chosen and used in a specific manner by a specific group of people to describe energy healing and priestcraft.

Any person who prays to God, in the name of Christ and receives a blessing of healing has experienced "Christ centered healing."

Any person who pays someone to use various "modalities" to heal including but not limited to occult behaviors, and who probably paid a handsome fee to learn those modalities is engaged in "Christ Centered Healing."

Christ centered healing; Thy will be done.

Christ Centered Healing: My will be done.

Not the same.

As a side note, I often feel like a careful reading of the Bible, both Old and New Testament would clear up a lot of this particular confusion. I love the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, The Pearl of Great Price. I also love the clarity of the Bible in these matters. If you need some inspiration to read the Bible, try "Fires of Faith: The Coming Forth of the King James Version of the Bible" on byu.tv.

http://www.byutv.org/Show/123d4a82-3d47 ... 96a5a1ff2c

If you are referring to Ezra's, JohnnyL's and Butterfly's comments, I don't think they are really THAT dense, I believe they know exactly what is being referred to. I know that Johnny is an energy practitioner, so HE certainly knows, I assume Ezra and Butterfly are not practitioners (???) but are defenders of the practice, maybe they use it. I think they are doing their best to muddy the discussion because they don't like to fact that the Church put out a statement that cautioned against 'Christ centered ENERGY HEALING' which they apparently support.

You are seriously beyond ridiculous. I am starting to fear for your mental health, the more you post on this subject. Please, stay well.

[JohnnyL]

Fine my mother is evil.

=))

I know my mom. She has he faults like everyone. She is a kind person who is good to people.

Vs

AMA. Kills a million plus innocent unborn baby's every year.


If they only did acts of evil do you think the pubic would stand for it?? I don't think so. Satan is smart. He prays on people's weaknesses. He tells 9 truths for every lie. He uses institutions to do evil but also enough good or "perceived" good to hide the the hidden agenda. Slowly degrading people's knowledge and morals to where he can add do more evil and get away with it.


Guns kill around 20,000 in the us every year. And we hear all about that. The AMA kills around half a million every year from "errors." And over a million unborn babies. And what do we hear.......... nothing

You think God has any love for the AMA?

3 Nephi 27:11
But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

Is the AMA built on Gods gospel? No.

Ahhh! Have you ever seen or read anywhere of a gun killing anyone without anyone's finger on the trigger? Guns do not kill people. Evil men using a gun as a killing tool is the problem.

Can't compare guns with AMA. It is evil people doing hideous acts that kill God's children. Abortion and genocide have the same results...death of humans of all ages.

Do you presume to think all the wars read about in the Book of Mormon were unnecessary? A war is justified when homes, families, faith, liberty and freedom are at stake. Moroni didn't sit on his butt and say "oh well, we can't do anything about losing our lives, liberty and freedom." Nor did Helaman and other great, righteous warriors.

Now, when it comes to energy healing, which is nothing more than priestcraft...there is a scripture that describes this very eloquently:

3 Nephi 14
22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mosiah 5:13
13 For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?

D&C 112:26
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord

By merely saying "in the name of Jesus Christ" doesn't mean a thing if the practitioner does not yearn for righteous and serve God 24/7.

Moroni 4:3
3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

I am not talking about energy healing. I have been talking about Christ centered healings. Faith.pristhood. And through the words of wisdom.

My reference of guns was to only demonstrate how compared to the AMA the number they kill through evils hands is hardly any vs the ama.

Thanks for agreeing that guns cannot compare to the horrible acts of abortions done by the AMA.

Why are you talking about something that is not part of the thread? This thread is about 'christ centered ENERGY HEALING'. If you don't know what that is, you can look up Emotion code or Body code, by Dr. Bradley Nelson. That might help get you on the right page in this discussion.

And the discussion is not about trashing the American Medical Association so why you brought this in, I don't know. There are plenty of Doctors in the AMA who've never performed an abortion and never would. If you want to discuss abortions, start a new thread, please.

Is this your thread? OP was misleading/ false, therefore it shouldn't even exist. AMA is very pertinent, though you would like to believe otherwise.

[JohnnyL]

I pay my kid's pediatrician and they're a Christ- centered doctor's office, AMA and everything. I think it's great to have a doctor that openly worships God. Their practice is called All God's Children, they have Bible paintings all over the walls, and when I told them I didn't want to vaccinate the doctor said "God gave you this child and so He has determined that you are the one to make the decisions for her and we respect God's will in choosing you."

They'll pray with you if you want and they attribute their success in medicine and healing to God.

Isn't this the way all businesses should be? Every time someone complimented me at work I attributed my success to the spirit working through me. After all, the Spirit will teach us the truth of all things. That includes any business, medicine or otherwise.

Every time you earn a dollar you should give thanks to God; every time you work it should be Christ-centered. It's OK to pray to have God's spirit help you do miraculous things at the workplace, including healing.
Amulek taught:

24 Cry unto him over the crops of your fields, that ye may prosper in them.

25 Cry over the flocks of your fields, that they may increase.

Are we wanting our doctors to check God at the door when they clock-in for work? Was it not God who gave doctors their skills? Should they not rely on His spirit to help heal people and then give God the glory?

Oh no, oh my!! They are certainly less righteous than the atheists, because the atheist doctors don't pray for you or do what they do in the name of Jesus. ;)

Whoops, but then, I guess we all forgot about this, so those doctors who don't acknowledge God...:
DC 59:21 And in nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled, save those who confess not his hand in all things, and obey not his commandments.

[AI2.0]

No it's not my thread. Did you see my name on the op?
The person who started it apparently forgot about it. I was interested in it, but it's going downhill quick.

There are very few threads on this forum I want to discuss, this was one of them, but I'm starting to wonder why I bother. Ezra is derailing, Butterfly is purposely being obtuse and you are doing your best to protect your 'craft'.

[Ezra]

Fine my mother is evil.

=))

I know my mom. She has he faults like everyone. She is a kind person who is good to people.

Vs

AMA. Kills a million plus innocent unborn baby's every year.


If they only did acts of evil do you think the pubic would stand for it?? I don't think so. Satan is smart. He prays on people's weaknesses. He tells 9 truths for every lie. He uses institutions to do evil but also enough good or "perceived" good to hide the the hidden agenda. Slowly degrading people's knowledge and morals to where he can add do more evil and get away with it.


Guns kill around 20,000 in the us every year. And we hear all about that. The AMA kills around half a million every year from "errors." And over a million unborn babies. And what do we hear.......... nothing

You think God has any love for the AMA?

3 Nephi 27:11
But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

Is the AMA built on Gods gospel? No.

Ahhh! Have you ever seen or read anywhere of a gun killing anyone without anyone's finger on the trigger? Guns do not kill people. Evil men using a gun as a killing tool is the problem.

Can't compare guns with AMA. It is evil people doing hideous acts that kill God's children. Abortion and genocide have the same results...death of humans of all ages.

Do you presume to think all the wars read about in the Book of Mormon were unnecessary? A war is justified when homes, families, faith, liberty and freedom are at stake. Moroni didn't sit on his butt and say "oh well, we can't do anything about losing our lives, liberty and freedom." Nor did Helaman and other great, righteous warriors.

Now, when it comes to energy healing, which is nothing more than priestcraft...there is a scripture that describes this very eloquently:

3 Nephi 14
22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mosiah 5:13
13 For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?

D&C 112:26
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord

By merely saying "in the name of Jesus Christ" doesn't mean a thing if the practitioner does not yearn for righteous and serve God 24/7.

Moroni 4:3
3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

I am not talking about energy healing. I have been talking about Christ centered healings. Faith.pristhood. And through the words of wisdom.

My reference of guns was to only demonstrate how compared to the AMA the number they kill through evils hands is hardly any vs the ama.

Thanks for agreeing that guns cannot compare to the horrible acts of abortions done by the AMA.

Why are you talking about something that is not part of the thread? This thread is about 'christ centered ENERGY HEALING'. If you don't know what that is, you can look up Emotion code or Body code, by Dr. Bradley Nelson. That might help get you on the right page in this discussion.

And the discussion is not about trashing the American Medical Association so why you brought this in, I don't know. There are plenty of Doctors in the AMA who've never performed an abortion and never would. If you want to discuss abortions, start a new thread, please.

Words have power and meaning.

"Christ centered" means it's centered on Christ.

I'm not the one who called energy healing Christ centered. I responded to others who called it Christ centered and talked about what is Christ centered and what is not. Like the AMA.

The original post

kfb wrote: ↑ On "Energy Healing". It was read to our ward council. The warning contained council about seeking healing outside of the role of the priesthood and priesthood blessings. Also warned of practices where members are charging for healing services. This stuff must be getting popular amongst the saints. Sounds like LD priestcraft.

I responded that the AMA charges for healing services and that it's great counsel to denounce that institution as they are baby killers.

Now if you feel the need to defend that currupt institution it's my duty as commandment in d&c 88 76-82 to raise a warning voice.

It's black and white there is no grey.

Churches and institutions or individuals either serve God or they don't.

That's why the lord said you cannot serve 2 masters.

[JohnnyL]

No it's not my thread. Did you see my name on the op?
The person who started it apparently forgot about it. I was interested in it, but it's going downhill quick.

There are very few threads on this forum I want to discuss, this was one of them, but I'm starting to wonder why I bother. Ezra is derailing, Butterfly is purposely being obtuse and you are doing your best to protect your 'craft'.

In apologetics, there is a huge difference between "dialogue" with someone who at least knows and understands the basics of Mormonism, and is willing to go deeper (even if they're strongly against it); and some minister who watched one video clip and read an article, but knows Mormonism is false and must make arguments against it (that some Primary children can point out mistakes in). Information really does help.

I feel sorry for you sometimes. Fighting so strongly against something you seem to know and understand so little about, just to protect a paradigm. I don't doubt your good intentions.

If "protecting [my] 'craft'" means telling the truth, asking logical questions and expecting and giving logical answers, posting links and searches so others can understand (did you ever read or watch even ONE?), etc., then I guess I'm guilty. <shrug>

Did you ever read or watch even ONE? Or are you being like the minister who tells people not to pray and ask about the Book of Mormon, because Satan will deceive you, because you are just tempting God because we ALREADY KNOOOOW the Book of Mormon is from Satan? "Thinking" he's doing it on behalf of God, being valiant for God.

[EmmaLee]

...

I'm curious about this comment of yours - "...look to the building program in Europe, and the French mission apostasy fiasco." Are you referring to this - "Major Contraction of LDS Church in Europe and the Netherlands Beginning", and what happened in the French mission in the 1950's? If not, I'm not sure what you're referring to, so would you please elaborate?

Europe part: http://www.mormonstories.org/baseballbaptisms.html
Yeah on the French mission thing (and that was only a very small part of it). My opinion is that mission presidents and general authorities weren't following the Spirit, letting their prejudices and biases get in their way.

Okay, thanks; I agree.

[freedomforall]

Is it true that it has been said that doctors are here for a purpose?

Is it true that it has been taught that we are to do everything in our power to be healed or treated by going to doctors before going to the Lord for a healing? Not sure if I agree with this, though.

Is, "the Lord helps those who help themselves"...a true teaching? If it is, then going to doctors over priesthood must be correct, right? Would this principle hold true where doctors are concerned?

Why in scripture do we read that some have the faith to heal, and some have faith to be healed...if this was not to be utilized? D&C 46

When do we discern to merely go to a doctor, and when to go to the priesthood for medical reasons? In other words, when do we put aside going to the priesthood when a doctor is sufficient for the task? If a husband and wife are in their vehicle across from a hospital and the husband begins to experience chest pains, does the wife call on the priesthood or rush her husband into emergency?

How may this next story relate to the idea of doctor services and God's power?
http://blog.eternalvigilance.me/2012/01 ... the-flood/

A man was trapped in his house during a flood. He began praying to God to rescue him. He had a vision in his head of God’s hand reaching down from heaven and lifting him to safety. The water started to rise in his house. His neighbour urged him to leave and offered him a ride to safety. The man yelled back, “I am waiting for God to save me.” The neighbour drove off in his pick-up truck.

The man continued to pray and hold on to his vision. As the water began rising in his house, he had to climb up to the roof. A boat came by with some people heading for safe ground. They yelled at the man to grab a rope they were ready to throw and take him to safety. He told them that he was waiting for God to save him. They shook their heads and moved on.

The man continued to pray, believing with all his heart that he would be saved by God. The flood waters continued to rise. A helicopter flew by and a voice came over a loudspeaker offering to lower a ladder and take him off the roof. The man waved the helicopter away, shouting back that he was waiting for God to save him. The helicopter left. The flooding water came over the roof and caught him up and swept him away. He drowned.

When he reached heaven and asked, “God, why did you not save me? I believed in you with all my heart. Why did you let me drown?” God replied, “I sent you a pick-up truck, a boat and a helicopter and you refused all of them. What else could I possibly do for you?”

[Finrock]

And "in exchange for money" -

"We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises-in exchange for money-miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders,” (LDS church spokesman Eric Hawkins)

As Ezra was saying, this is wonderful, as it shuts down doctors, dentists, chiropractors, etc.

The church seems pretty inarticulate about it, too.

Now, if you promise non-miraculous healings, such as paying lots of money to a psychiatrist, psychologist, counselor, or half the doctors we've gone to, you're ok. #-o

Or if you miraculously heal with special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders, but not in exchange for money, you're ok. #-o

The letter is currently not about Christ-centered healing, though that is what AI 2.0 interprets it to mean. It means "be cautious", don't get scammed.

Hopefully the leaders will actually try to understand it all, and take care of it correctly. For instances of contrary, look to the building program in Europe, and the French mission apostasy fiasco. For a nearer look, listen to the opening of President Utchdorf's October 2015 talk in GC.

...

I'm curious about this comment of yours - "...look to the building program in Europe, and the French mission apostasy fiasco." Are you referring to this - "Major Contraction of LDS Church in Europe and the Netherlands Beginning", and what happened in the French mission in the 1950's? If not, I'm not sure what you're referring to, so would you please elaborate?

Europe part: http://www.mormonstories.org/baseballbaptisms.html
Yeah on the French mission thing (and that was only a very small part of it). My opinion is that mission presidents and general authorities weren't following the Spirit, letting their prejudices and biases get in their way.

How sad.

This sentence stood out to me and perhaps is revealing, to a certain degree, as to why people act the way they do sometimes in the Church:

"The most serious victims were those missionaries who didn't recognize that they were being spiritually abused. Unless they confront emotionally and spiritually the fact of their being abused, the abused often become abusers when they have the power to do so. This is true of abused Church members just as it is true of abused family members. To an abused co-dependent, it seems humble to accept spiritual abuse from Church leaders and righteous to inflict spiritual abuse on Church subordinates."

-Finrock