Ether's Avenue

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
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Silver
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Re: Ether's Avenue

Post by Silver »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... tion,_2016

Presidential ticket Party Ballot access Votes[3][246] Percentage
States Electors % of voters
Trump / Pence Republican 50 + DC 538 100% 62,984,825 46.09%
Clinton / Kaine Democratic 50 + DC 538 100% 65,853,516 48.18%
Johnson / Weld Libertarian 50 + DC 538 100% 4,489,221 3.28%
Stein / Baraka Green 44 + DC 480 89% 1,457,216 1.07%
McMullin / Finn Independent 11 84 15% 731,788 0.54%
Castle / Bradley Constitution 24 207 39% 203,010 0.15%

46.09 + 48.18 = 94.27% Which means that the voice of the people overwhelmingly chose evil.

simpleton
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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.....After a while the Gentiles will gather by the thousands to this place, and Salt Lake City will be classed among the wicked cities of the world. A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints,( happening as we speak) and the results will be financial bondage. Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to a test that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous among them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes..... ( To me the above is the hope, cry day and night for deliverance. )

Then the Prophet Joseph and others will make their appearance and those who have remained faithful will be selected to return to Jackson County, Missouri and take part in the building of that beautiful city, the New Jerusalem. (Heber C. Kimball, May 1868)

And then the above reward to those that "REMAIN FAITHFUL" praying day and night for deliverance...

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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simpleton wrote: May 23rd, 2017, 1:14 pm .....After a while the Gentiles will gather by the thousands to this place, and Salt Lake City will be classed among the wicked cities of the world. A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints,( happening as we speak) and the results will be financial bondage. Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to a test that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous among them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes..... ( To me the above is the hope, cry day and night for deliverance. )

Then the Prophet Joseph and others will make their appearance and those who have remained faithful will be selected to return to Jackson County, Missouri and take part in the building of that beautiful city, the New Jerusalem. (Heber C. Kimball, May 1868)

And then the above reward to those that "REMAIN FAITHFUL" praying day and night for deliverance...
Was that Journal of Discourses or some other location?

I can add a second witness to the "spirit of speculation and extravagance". I lived in SLC during the real estate boom of 2005-2008 and had some close friends, former mission companions, in the mortgage industry there. They were getting rich so quick they didn't know how to spend their money, so they blew it on luxury toys and huge houses. It corrupted some to the point where they would mock temple covenants by giving each other the signs and tokens from the endowment while laughing about it on a public street. It disgusted me.

I got out of there as fast as I could. I could live almost anywhere but SLC now. There is a wickedness in some quarters there that only God Himself will be able to root out.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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Silver wrote: May 23rd, 2017, 12:22 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... tion,_2016

Presidential ticket Party Ballot access Votes[3][246] Percentage
States Electors % of voters
Trump / Pence Republican 50 + DC 538 100% 62,984,825 46.09%
Clinton / Kaine Democratic 50 + DC 538 100% 65,853,516 48.18%
Johnson / Weld Libertarian 50 + DC 538 100% 4,489,221 3.28%
Stein / Baraka Green 44 + DC 480 89% 1,457,216 1.07%
McMullin / Finn Independent 11 84 15% 731,788 0.54%
Castle / Bradley Constitution 24 207 39% 203,010 0.15%

46.09 + 48.18 = 94.27% Which means that the voice of the people overwhelmingly chose evil.
The question for me is whether they knowingly chose evil or whether they did so indirectly as the "lesser of two" argument.

Or perhaps a better point to make is that over 40% of voters didn't choose at all:
https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/voter-turnout-2016/

According to the United States Election Project, an average of 59.7 percent of eligible voters cast their ballots.


How crazy is that? And where would we be if 100% of voters actually stood up to be counted? Nearly 92 million people said nothing.

OCDMOM
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.

Benjamin Disraeli

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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OCDMOM wrote: May 23rd, 2017, 2:20 pm The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.

Benjamin Disraeli
I have to thank twice for sharing that. Disraeli is one of my personal heroes, and he was spot on with that statement.

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Re: Ether's Avenue

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"Men are often asked to express an opinion on a myriad of government proposals and projects. All too often, answers seem to be based not upon solid principle, but upon the popularity of the specific government program in question. Seldom are men willing to oppose a popular program if they themselves wish to be popular—especially if they seek public office.

"Such an approach to vital political questions of the day can only lead to public confusion and legislative chaos. Decisions of this nature should be based upon and measured against certain basic principles regarding the proper role of government. If principles are correct, then they can be applied to any specific proposal with confidence.

"Unlike the political opportunist, the true statesman values principle above popularity and works to create popularity for those political principles which are wise and just."
- Ezra Taft Benson, The Proper Role of Government

Silver
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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Whenever you hear a politician say the term “vital national security interests,” you can be certain that almost every time you are being propagandized into supporting tyranny. The way you will know is if the lying politician – be it Clinton or Bush or Cheney or Obama or Mattis or Rumsfeld or Hillary or Trump – is reading the teleprompter in an attempt to persuade you of the appropriateness of using military force in a foreign country. A foreign country, a sovereign entity; they’re trying to make it sound like we have every right to waltz in there and shoot a bunch of people and drone the rest of them.

What do tyrants do?
They make slaves out of their subjects.

Tax slaves: It’s 2017 & the IRS is still going strong, ain’t it? (We owe so much money that we can never truly lower taxes. “Lower taxes” is a term politicians use to deceive a poorly educated population. That term is a trick for votes.) And even if taxes were lowered, the feds would just borrow more money to make up the shortfall.

Mercenary slaves: Our military personnel, acting under the orders of the Commander In Chief, are committing murders in Iraq, Syria, Yemen & Afghanistan now – not only in the past.

Some on LDSFF have made the ridiculous assertion that if somebody somewhere is getting attacked, then America must step in and help. Even if that were the proper thing to do, we simply can’t afford the profligate spending. It’s time for some other country to be the world’s policeman. What part of $20 trillion in debt do you not understand?

But we wouldn’t like to be treated the way we treat others, would we? What if China suddenly said that it’s in their national interests to own the Hawaiian Islands? What if Mexico said that it was in their interests to take back all the states from Texas to California? What if Monaco, little Monaco, declared that it was in their security interests to own Mt. Rushmore? Would all Americans just shrug their shoulders and say, “Well, it is in their vital national interests. Let ‘em have it.”? Can any country, at any time, referring to any piece of land, simply say that they have a right to take over a piece of land? Yet that’s exactly what the two major parties have claimed for over 100 years.

Here’s an example: Please recall how Hillary cackled when Libya’s Qaddafi was murdered. She actually said, on camera, “We came. We saw. He died. Hahaha.” Wicked ol’ witch. Now look at the death, destruction, mayhem and chaos that Libya is experiencing. The recent suicide bomber in Manchester, England, was radicalized and trained in Libya. Actions have consequences, and supporting either of the two main parties in the US has caused the death of millions of people within our living memory. Blowback in Manchester. Blowback in the US. Only the wicked and the very naïve would say that droning more people in the Middle East will reduce blowback. Yet going into Libya, the Obama administration claimed it was in our national interests to attack them. Now we’re doing it in Syria. We’ve learned nothing. We deserve the consequences. We deserve the blowback.

Can we live by the golden rule and let another sovereign country manage their own sovereign land?

Can we remember Pres. Kimball’s “warlike people” talk?

Silver
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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Well, speaking of interests, here's an article that came out on Memorial Day. Sadly, the Trump supporters are no more likely to repent after reading it than they were after reading my comments in the preceding post. The blowback will be well deserved.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-29/memoriam-2017

In Memoriam, 2017

by Tyler Durden
May 29, 2017 10:00 PM

Authored by Robert Gore via StraightLineLogic.com,

You don’t fight for your country, you fight for your government.
The Golden Pinnacle, by Robert Gore

On Memorial Day, America remembers and honors those who died while serving in the military. It is altogether fitting and proper to ask: for what did they die? Do the rationales offered by the military and government officials who decide when and how the US will go to war, and embraced by the public, particularly those who lose loved ones, stand up to scrutiny and analysis? Some will recoil, claiming it inappropriate on a day devoted to honoring the dead. However, it is because war is a matter of life and death, for members of the military and, inevitably, civilians, that its putative justifications be subject to the strictest tests of truth and the most probing of analyses.

Millions have marched off to war believing they were defending the US, which implies the US was under attack. Yet, setting aside for a moment Pearl Harbor and 9/11, US territory hasn’t been invaded by a foreign power since the Mexican-American War (arguably—Mexico claimed the territory it “invaded” was part of Mexico), or, if the Confederacy is considered a foreign power, the Civil War. That war ended a century-and-a-half ago, yet every US military involvement since has been justified as a defense of the US. That has gradually attenuated, in a little noted slide, to a defense of US “interests,” which is something far different.

Only one of those involvements could, arguably, have been said to have forestalled not an invasion, but a possible threat of invasion: World War II. Watching newsreel graphics of Germany’s drives across Europe, Northern Africa, and the USSR, and Japan’s across Asia and the Pacific, it was perhaps understandable that Americans believed the Axis powers would eventually come for them, especially after Pearl Harbor. However, that was a one-off attack by the Japanese to disable the US’s Pacific Fleet. To launch an invasion of the US, Japan, a smaller, less populated nation whose economy depended on imports of vital raw materials, including oil, would have had to cross the Pacific and fight the US, and undoubtedly Canada, on their home territories. The Pearl Harbor attack, provoking America’s entry into the war, proved a strategic blunder for the Japanese. An invasion would have been ludicrous. Similarly, Germany, up to its eyeballs in a two-front war, couldn’t conquer Russian winters or Great Britain across the English Channel. How was it supposed to either cross the Atlantic, or the USSR and hostile guerrillas, then the Pacific, and attack the US? That, too, would have been ludicrous.

The 9/11 attack was also a one-off. A majority of the attackers came not from a US enemy but rather a supposed ally, Saudi Arabia. They received funding and other support from people in that country and perhaps its government. A conventional war against a “state sponsor of terrorism” might have required war against Saudi Arabia; it is still not clear how involved its government was. That option was never considered. Rather, the Bush administration performed metaphysical gymnastics and launched the first war in history against a tactic: terrorism. Although the jihadists who perpetrated 9/11 were self-evidently not the vanguard of an invasion, the terrorism they employed was deemed a threat to US interests in the Middle East, and to life and property in the US. However, none of our subsequent involvements in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt, and Yemen have been necessary to maintain US citizens’ freedoms, the nation’s territorial integrity, or its lives and property.

There are undoubtedly many epitaphs on tombstones in this country to the effect: Here lies the deceased, who died defending America, and not one that reads: Here lies the deceased, who died defending American interests. However, the latter is in most cases more accurate than the former. Who decides the interests for which members of America’s military will die? Those considering entering the military today must look beyond the slogans, contemplate the risks of being killed, wounded, dismembered, paralyzed, or psychologically traumatized, and ask themselves: why and for whom are these risks being borne? “You don’t fight for your country, you fight for your government.” Is it worth risking one’s life for the US government?

In 1821, John Quincy Adams said America had not gone “abroad in search of monsters to destroy,” and while we wished those seeking liberty well, theirs was not our fight (see “In Search of Monsters,” SLL, 4/11/15). Since then, America has searched for monsters, found, and in some cases, destroyed them. However, as the poison of power has worked its evil on the minds and souls of those who possess it, the monsters have become more ethereal, apparitions conjured like creatures in the closet by children when they go to bed. The war on terrorism creates more terrorists, the monsters of choice since 9/11. The government still pays occasional lip service to “democratic values” and “civil liberties,” but allies itself with regimes which have no more fealty to those values and liberties than the “tyrants” the government opposes. “Defending America” and “Promoting Our Way of Life” have become transparent pretexts for American power and domination unbounded. As Adams so presciently warned, the search for monsters has turned the government itself into a monster, the biggest threat to Americans’ “inextinguishable rights of human nature.”

Those who have fought and died to defend America and its freedoms are noble beyond measure. Those who pay self-serving tribute to their valor, but make war and expend lives as means to corrupt ends are evil beyond redemption. Honor the former; expose and oppose the latter.

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Re: Ether's Avenue

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Silver wrote: May 30th, 2017, 1:51 am Well, speaking of interests, here's an article that came out on Memorial Day. Sadly, the Trump supporters are no more likely to repent after reading it than they were after reading my comments in the preceding post. The blowback will be well deserved.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-29/memoriam-2017

In Memoriam, 2017

by Tyler Durden
May 29, 2017 10:00 PM

Authored by Robert Gore via StraightLineLogic.com,

You don’t fight for your country, you fight for your government.
The Golden Pinnacle, by Robert Gore
Did you see the comment about North Korea below the article?
Something is going on....Let me tell you. I got 1st hand knowledge today. I spent the day with some Texans who have kids in the military, they just got called up to go to south korea, without notice and they had major gas attack training. The parents said they won't say what's going on but that the kids are concerned. Then on the way home I saw a massive military convoy a mile long headed east ....I have drove that way for many years, never seen anything like it. I think an attack on NK is imminent.
Man I hope he's wrong... but Mattis saying on Sunday "We don't need no stinking red lines.... we don't even need to wait until they have a warhead tipped ICBM" plus the third aircraft carrier.... What if we're going to war?

Silver
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Re: Ether's Avenue

Post by Silver »

iWriteStuff wrote: May 30th, 2017, 7:33 am
Silver wrote: May 30th, 2017, 1:51 am Well, speaking of interests, here's an article that came out on Memorial Day. Sadly, the Trump supporters are no more likely to repent after reading it than they were after reading my comments in the preceding post. The blowback will be well deserved.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-29/memoriam-2017

In Memoriam, 2017

by Tyler Durden
May 29, 2017 10:00 PM

Authored by Robert Gore via StraightLineLogic.com,

You don’t fight for your country, you fight for your government.
The Golden Pinnacle, by Robert Gore
Did you see the comment about North Korea below the article?
Something is going on....Let me tell you. I got 1st hand knowledge today. I spent the day with some Texans who have kids in the military, they just got called up to go to south korea, without notice and they had major gas attack training. The parents said they won't say what's going on but that the kids are concerned. Then on the way home I saw a massive military convoy a mile long headed east ....I have drove that way for many years, never seen anything like it. I think an attack on NK is imminent.
Man I hope he's wrong... but Mattis saying on Sunday "We don't need no stinking red lines.... we don't even need to wait until they have a warhead tipped ICBM" plus the third aircraft carrier.... What if we're going to war?
Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.

Trump is a traitor and a liar. Hillary's not in jail and getting paid for speeches. Jon Corzine is still walking around. The youth of America are once again going to have to pay for the sins of our leaders with their lives. Rise up, Captain Moroni. Rise up.

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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Silver wrote: May 30th, 2017, 7:57 am Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.

Trump is a traitor and a liar. Hillary's not in jail and getting paid for speeches. Jon Corzine is still walking around. The youth of America are once again going to have to pay for the sins of our leaders with their lives. Rise up, Captain Moroni. Rise up.
I don't know about you, but it kind of made my blood boil to see pundits falling all over themselves to congratulate Trump on saying nice things at Arlington. The dude is a draft dodger and a perverted coward.
“It’s amazing, I can’t even believe it. I’ve been so lucky in terms of that whole world, it is a dangerous world out there. It’s like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave solider,” Trump said in the interview when Howard Stern asked how he handled making sure he wasn’t contracting STDs from the women he was sleeping with.

The business-mogul-turned-politician elaborated on the fact in the interview, calling women’s vaginas “potential landmines” and saying “there’s some real danger there.”

“You know, if you’re young, and in this era, and if you have any guilt about not having gone to Vietnam, we have our own Vietnam — it’s called the dating game,” Trump said to Stern in a 1993 interview. “Dating is like being in Vietnam. You’re the equivalent of a soldier going over to Vietnam.
http://people.com/politics/trump-boaste ... l-vietnam/

It makes me want to throw up. Now he's going to send kids to die in North Korea and for what? He's actively bombing Syria and for what? If John Kerry was "unfit for command" (and he was), Trump is 1000x worse. This is tyranny of the unvirtuous and conservatives seem to be eating it up with delight.

Silver
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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After Trump sent 59 Tomahawks into Syria even a commentator on CNN made ridiculous statements like, "Tonight he became my President." And yet, the cheerleaders here can never see that there is collusion at the top and nothing significant has improved under the new guy.

Democrats = Republicans = Gadiantons

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Re: Ether's Avenue

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Silver wrote: May 30th, 2017, 8:21 am After Trump sent 59 Tomahawks into Syria even a commentator on CNN made ridiculous statements like, "Tonight he became my President." And yet, the cheerleaders here can never see that there is collusion at the top and nothing significant has improved under the new guy.

Democrats = Republicans = Gadiantons
Not to turn this into a Trump bashing thread, but I would like to state clearly and for the record that the man is no Conservative, nor friend to conservatives. Perhaps the only thing worse than his words and behavior is listening to Conservatives defend him when he so clearly and unmistakably betrays their principles.
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Silver
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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Bush was no conservative either. Neither was his daddy. Neither was Reagan. Neither was Nixon.

One good thing you can say about Democrats is that they don't pretend to be conservative like the hypocritical Republicans do.

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Re: Ether's Avenue

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Interesting thought on human governments and war:
Go to any power that has existed upon this earth, and you will find that earthly government, earthly rule and dominion, have been obtained by the sword. It was the sword of men that first put them in possession of this power. They have walked up to their thrones through rivers of blood, through the clotted gore and the groans of the dying, and through the tears and lamentations of bereaved widow's and helpless orphans; and hence the common saying is, "Thrones won by blood, by blood must be maintained." By the same principle that they have been put in possession of territory, have they sought to sustain themselves − the same violence, the same fraud, and the same oppression have been made use of to sustain their illegitimacy.
- John Taylor, April 8, 1853, JD 1:225
And yet we continue our conquest of foreign nations, which must then be maintained by more blood and violence. Is that why the United States was brought into being? To pound democracy down the throats of weaker nations?
Last edited by iWriteStuff on May 31st, 2017, 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ether's Avenue

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here's another good quote from super liberal John Taylor:
Authority, dominion, rule, government has been obtained by fraud, and consequently is not legitimate. They say much about the ordination of kings, and their being anointed by the grace of God, &c. What think you of a murderer slaying hundreds and thousands of his fellow−creatures because he has the power, and while his sword is yet reeking with human blood, having a priest in sacerdotal robes to anoint him to the kingship? They have done it. What think you of the cries of the widows, the tears of the orphans, and the groans of the dying, mingling with the prayers and blessings of the priest upon the head of the murderer of their husbands and their fathers?

It is impossible that there can be any legitimate rule, government, power, or authority, under the face of the heavens, except that which is connected with the kingdom of God, which is established by new revelation from heaven.
- John Taylor, April 8, 1853

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Re: Ether's Avenue

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this guy was just an architect in Hitler's administration, but he had some pretty good insights about the use of technology in obtaining power and manipulating the will of the people:
Hitler's dictatorship differed in one fundamental point from all its predecessors in history. His was the first dictatorship in the present period of technical development, a dictatorship which made complete use of all technical means for the domination of its own country. Through technical means like the radio and the loud-speaker, eighty million people were deprived of independent thought. It was thereby possible to subject them to the will of one man.
- Albert Speer, Nuremberg: The War Crimes Trial
How many independent thinking individuals are left in our culture?

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Re: Ether's Avenue

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hey all y'all anti Bilderberg people. What do you think of this year's list of attendees?

Brennan, John O. (USA), Senior Advisor, Kissinger Associates Inc. (Former director of CIA)
Cohen, David S. (USA), Former Deputy Director, CIA
Cotton, Tom (USA), Senator (REPUBLICAN)
Graham, Lindsey (USA), Senator (REPUBLICAN)
Kissinger, Henry A. (USA), Chairman, Kissinger Associates Inc. (REPUBLICAN)
McAuliffe, Terence (USA), Governor of Virginia (DEMOCRAT)
McMaster, H.R. (USA), National Security Advisor (SERVING IN TRUMP ADMIN)
Petraeus, David H. (USA), Chairman, KKR Global Institute
Ross, Wilbur L. (USA), Secretary of Commerce (SERVING IN TRUMP ADMIN)
Schadlow, Nadia (USA), Deputy Assistant to the President, National Security Council (SERVING IN TRUMP ADMIN)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-0 ... ess-report

Our government is owned and run by these guys.

Connect the dots. Gadiantons are running the show, even now. The swamp didn't get drained - they just played a game of musical chairs.

Silver
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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iWriteStuff wrote: June 1st, 2017, 11:56 am hey all y'all anti Bilderberg people. What do you think of this year's list of attendees?

Brennan, John O. (USA), Senior Advisor, Kissinger Associates Inc. (Former director of CIA)
Cohen, David S. (USA), Former Deputy Director, CIA
Cotton, Tom (USA), Senator (REPUBLICAN)
Graham, Lindsey (USA), Senator (REPUBLICAN)
Kissinger, Henry A. (USA), Chairman, Kissinger Associates Inc. (REPUBLICAN)
bilderbergers rule.jpg
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McAuliffe, Terence (USA), Governor of Virginia (DEMOCRAT)
McMaster, H.R. (USA), National Security Advisor (SERVING IN TRUMP ADMIN)
Petraeus, David H. (USA), Chairman, KKR Global Institute
Ross, Wilbur L. (USA), Secretary of Commerce (SERVING IN TRUMP ADMIN)
Schadlow, Nadia (USA), Deputy Assistant to the President, National Security Council (SERVING IN TRUMP ADMIN)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-0 ... ess-report

Our government is owned and run by these guys.

Connect the dots. Gadiantons are running the show, even now. The swamp didn't get drained - they just played a game of musical chairs.
Facts are hard, iWriteStuff. You're so brutal.

Silver
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Re: Ether's Avenue

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The way the Republican Party encompasses the duality of "anti-big government" and "Kissinger & Trump & Bilderbergers" is breath-taking. The party that gave us the Patriot Act and the NDAA of 2012 is supposed to save us from Hillary? I'd laugh at the idea if it weren't so sobering. And yet the sheeple, just eat up trite slogans like, "Lock her up!" What a sad state of affairs.

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Re: Ether's Avenue

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"But, behold, the judgments of God will overtake the wicked; and it is by the wicked that the wicked are punished; for it is the wicked that stir up the hearts of the children of men unto bloodshed."
- Mormon 4:5
If you like your bloodshed, you can keep your bloodshed. Nothing has changed in terms of foreign policy except an escalation of violence and threats of violence abroad. Ask yourself where that comes from and if you really want to be a part of that.

"The tragedy of the Book of Mormon is not what became of the Nephites but what the Nephites became."
- Hugh Nibley

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Re: Ether's Avenue

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Administrations, both Democrat and Republican, come and go-but the C.F.R. lingers on. This is why the more things seem to change, the more they remain the same. The fix is in at the top, where the same coterie of Insiders, bent on control of the world, runs the show.
- None Dare Call It Conspiracy
Ask yourself if the course to war has been altered since the election. Or has it accelerated? Ask yourself if the influence of international bankers has diminished since the election. Or has it increased? Ask yourself if the volume of socialist legislation has decreased since the election. Or has it increased?

Rather than rhetoric, let's examine evidence. Where are we headed as a nation?

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Re: Ether's Avenue

Post by iWriteStuff »

Satan's masterpiece of counterfeiting is the doctrine that there are only two choices, and he will show us what they are. It is true that there are only two ways, but by pointing us the way he wants us to take and then showing us a fork in that road, he convinces us that we are making the vital choice, when actually we are choosing between branches in his road. Which one we take makes little difference to him, for both lead to destruction. This is the polarization we find in the world today. Thus we have the choice between Shiz and Coriantumr-- which all the Jaredites were obliged to make. We have the choice between the wicked Lamanites (and they were that) and the equally wicked (Mormon says "more wicked") Nephites. Or between the fleshpots of Egypt and the stews of Babylon, or between the land pirates and the sea pirates of World War I, or between white supremacy and black supremacy, or between Vietnam and Cambodia, or between Bushwhachers and Jayhawkers, or between China and Russia, or between Catholic and Protestant, or between fundamentalist and atheist, or between right and left-- all of which are true rivals who hate each other. A very clever move of Satan!-- a subtlety that escapes us most of the time. So I ask Latter-day Saints, "What is your position frankly (I'd lake to take a vote here) regarding the merits of cigarettes vs. cigars, wine vs. beer, or heroin vs. LSD?" It should be apparent that you take no sides. By its nature the issue does not concern you. It is simply meaningless as far as your life is concerned. "What, are you not willing to stand up and be counted?" No, I am not. The Saints took no sides in that most passionately partisan of wars, the Civil War, and they never regretted it.”
― Hugh Nibley
What should we really be choosing? The Kingdom of God and His righteousness. The commandment is "Choose the right", not "Choose the right party".

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iWriteStuff
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Re: Ether's Avenue

Post by iWriteStuff »

"The interesting thing about our age is that not many people are really fooled – we are going into perdition with our eyes open; the separation of the tares and the wheat is to be strictly a free-will affair. A few questions rightly put can wangle an admission from the most completely hypnotized subject to the effect that he knows he is being fooled and is only playing anyway. That is exactly the way the Germans react to the same treatment. Like men in a trance even the firmest of them will suddenly break out with the abrupt admission (which always comes as a surprise) that they knew all along it was only make-believe and never actually believed all that stuff. Wherever you go in our own society you find great numbers of people behaving as if they were frightened to death of being disillusioned – getting touchier every minute, just like the South did before the Civil War."
- Hugh Nibley, letter written home from a trench in Holland during Operation Market Garden, Oct. 23, 1944
To quote a veteran of the D-Day invasion, a man who knew war first hand while fighting in the 101st Airborne division, and yet who knew and recognized war for what it is. He volunteered, enlisted, despite already having his PhD. He saw first hand what war does, and spent the rest of his life speaking against war and proclaiming peace.

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