It was only a matter of time....

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EdGoble
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It was only a matter of time....

Postby EdGoble » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:53 am

It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.

It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."

It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.

It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.

It was only a matter of time.

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Finrock
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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby Finrock » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:58 am

EdGoble wrote:It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.

It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."

It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.

It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.

It was only a matter of time.
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.

Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...

-Finrock
"You can't reason with a wolf" -rewcox

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AI2.0
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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby AI2.0 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:02 am

I assume you are referring to his testimony of john article? Does he claim it is scripture or are his followers making this claim--I haven't been keeping up with Snuffer's activities lately.

I skimmed it. Do you really think Snuffer is having that much influence on anyone but his ardent followers? I thought he'd kind of lost his cache over the last couple of years that he's done little.

As for his testimony of John, When I read it, I didn't realize SNuffer was claiming revelation--I assumed he was writing something similar to Cleon Skousen's 'the last week in the life of the Savior' essay where he tells the events of Jesus' life with a more detail as he pulls info from the different sources. Personally I don't know how this guy is fooling anyone, this isn't new scripture, if that's what HE's claiming.

John Dehlin will give anyone time on his internet soapbox if he thinks it will undermine the LDS church.
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AI2.0
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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby AI2.0 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:11 am

Finrock wrote:
EdGoble wrote:It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.

It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."

It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.

It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.

It was only a matter of time.
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.

Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...

-Finrock
If I was Ed Goble, I'd be offended by your accusation. You sound like you are suggesting that Denver Snuffer is being persecuted like Joseph Smith was. And in suggesting this, you are equating the LDS church with those who persecuted and murdered the Prophet. That might be welcomed on a Remnant forum but not here. Denver Snuffer was excommunicated for Apostasy, because he WAS in Apostasy and was preaching apostate doctrine. They rightly excommunicated him and since then he's gathered a following of believers. He's no Joseph Smith Jr.--his efforts are to stand against the church Joseph Smith founded, so I completely disagree with you suggesting Denver Snuffer is some kind of martyr.
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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby Finrock » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:15 am

AI2.0 wrote:
Finrock wrote:
EdGoble wrote:It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.

It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."

It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.

It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.

It was only a matter of time.
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.

Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...

-Finrock
If I was Ed Goble, I'd be offended by your accusation. You sound like you are suggesting that Denver Snuffer is being persecuted like Joseph Smith was. And in suggesting this, you are equating the LDS church with those who persecuted and murdered the Prophet. That might be welcomed on a Remnant forum but not here. Denver Snuffer was excommunicated for Apostasy, because he WAS in Apostasy and was preaching apostate doctrine. They rightly excommunicated him and since then he's gathered a following of believers. He's no Joseph Smith Jr.--his efforts are to stand against the church Joseph Smith founded, so I completely disagree with you suggesting Denver Snuffer is some kind of martyr.
Being offended is a personal choice. You can choose to feel or not feel how you wish. The irony still exist regardless of how you might personally interpret my words and attempt to make them more than what they are. You can disagree with your strawman all day long...don't hurt me none. :))

-Finrock
"You can't reason with a wolf" -rewcox

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby Meili » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:17 am

None of us can make choices for other people. It can be really frustrating when we see other people doing things that we feel are terribly detrimental to them. And yet a great part of learning to become like God is to learn not only to allow this but to accept it in a spirit of peace and love.

When we focus on others' follies and seek to change them then we are immersed in bitterness. Bitterness is the opposite of sweetness. Sweetness comes from partaking of the fruit of the tree of life, or in other words, in repenting. When we focus on others' need to repent, we damn ourselves because we cannot repent for them and we are immersed in bitterness. But when we focus on our own follies and repent of them, then we know the sweetness above all sweetness of Christ's atonement in our life.

Heavenly Father and Jesus understand the bitter and the sweet and they choose the sweet. Satan, Lucifer chose the bitter and offer it to us in the form of accusation and condemnation, which is the bitter fruit. Interestingly enough, while none of us can repent for another or cause them to repent, Jesus is the one who made it possible for us to repent. He did this by not allowing himself to condemn us or seek to force us to change. Instead, he chose to suffer willingly for us. He chose a course exactly opposite the path of accusation. He took the condemnation upon himself so that we don't have to be damned under it's burden if we will turn to him. He suffered for us rather than wishing suffering upon us.

Anyone who sees those around them falling under a spirit of deception has the opportunity to be like Jesus Christ or like Lucifer. We can either choose the bitter and partake of the frustrating practice of accusation and condemnation or we can choose the sweet, doing nothing more than inviting others to choose good and suffering rather than requiring them to suffer. This choice will determine whether the fruit we partake of and offer to others is bitter or sweet.
I'm always right.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby shadow » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:19 am

Finrock wrote:
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.


-Finrock
Except one was a true prophet and Denver isn't.
In an ironic twist you're claiming Joseph Smith was a typical anti-Mormon because he rejected false doctrine and false prophets.
This imminent stuff is taking for-freaking-ever :-w

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby DesertWonderer » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:25 am

Finrock wrote:
EdGoble wrote:It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.

It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."

It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.

It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.

It was only a matter of time.
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.

Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...

-Finrock
=))

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby Finrock » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:29 am

shadow wrote:
Finrock wrote:
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.


-Finrock
Except one was a true prophet and Denver isn't.
In an ironic twist you're claiming Joseph Smith was a typical anti-Mormon because he rejected false doctrine and false prophets.
The question of who is a true prophet and who isn't is irrelevant to the irony.

Let see here...how to respond to an empty assertion?

Let's try this one: No I'm not! :)

I like Meili's response. It's just about right. ;)

-Finrock
"You can't reason with a wolf" -rewcox

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby shadow » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:37 pm

Finrock wrote:
shadow wrote:
Finrock wrote:
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.


-Finrock
Except one was a true prophet and Denver isn't.
In an ironic twist you're claiming Joseph Smith was a typical anti-Mormon because he rejected false doctrine and false prophets.
The question of who is a true prophet and who isn't is irrelevant to the irony.

Let see here...how to respond to an empty assertion?

Let's try this one: No I'm not! :)

I like Meili's response. It's just about right. ;)

-Finrock
No, the irony I'm talking about still stands that you would claim Joseph Smith as an anti-Mormon for pointing out the false doctrines of false prophets.
This imminent stuff is taking for-freaking-ever :-w

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby inho » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:16 pm

AI2.0 wrote: As for his testimony of John, When I read it, I didn't realize SNuffer was claiming revelation--I assumed he was writing something similar to Cleon Skousen's 'the last week in the life of the Savior' essay where he tells the events of Jesus' life with a more detail as he pulls info from the different sources. Personally I don't know how this guy is fooling anyone, this isn't new scripture, if that's what HE's claiming.
If you read it carefully (which I haven't personally done, I have better things to do), you notice that he has inserted his own ideas in it. So, it is not just a paraphrase.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby EdGoble » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:20 pm

Finrock wrote: This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.

Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...

-Finrock
Sorry, but Special Pleading would be a fair criticism if it were not for the Holy Ghost that leads those who have it with them to know who the true messengers are.

The Holy Ghost is the thing that makes the only difference in the world between all the claimants that there are out there, and it is especially required in order to discern the sophisticated ones.

So, I am not offended that you have chosen to try to label what I have said in this way, since I seldom choose to be offended, and I am trying very hard not to be like I used to. But I am only not offended, only because I choose not to be. You actually did give me reason to choose to be if I wanted to. But I lose the spirit too easy when I do that, and again, keeping it with me is the only thing that gives me any measure of discernment, because logic does not. It only helps when things are glaringly obvious. Logic is useful, and calling people out when they commit logical fallacies is fair when it is right. But fortunately for Mormons, we live in a reality where we have a more broad epistemology than the world does, and we don't just have to rely on logic and science for our truth, but also have the opportunity to get truth from the Holy Ghost if we choose it.

So, if it weren't for the fact that the Holy Ghost does not support Denver Snuffer, you would have a point, and indeed, it would be Special Pleading. But in fact, the Holy Ghost does not support him, and is not the source of his revelations. Therefore, your criticism, in fact, does not stand.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby EdGoble » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:31 pm

AI2.0 wrote: Personally I don't know how this guy is fooling anyone, this isn't new scripture, if that's what HE's claiming.

John Dehlin will give anyone time on his internet soapbox if he thinks it will undermine the LDS church.
Well, we shall see soon, it seems, what Denver Snuffer's claim will be from his own mouth, but as it appears, his followers seem to be claiming that it is a revelation.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby Jonesy1982 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:29 pm

I've been there. Was even planning on being re-baptized while continuing as a member of the Church. I've reconciled my beliefs with the Church now, and it's a miracle I have done so.

At first I took aims at Denver Snuffer. Since then I've taken a different angle, or have sincerely tried, in the way I approach these matters (whether politically or adversarially).

I've been there to some degree:

28…persecuted by those who ought to have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me (JSH)

That's the angle we need to approach this. With love.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:(Luke 6)

If we err in doctrine, or whatever, we have to address those matters. Not attack or point fingers at them we think to be in error. It makes it that much more difficult to help on the other side and even makes them feel vindicated.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby Meili » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:46 pm

EdGoble wrote:
AI2.0 wrote: Personally I don't know how this guy is fooling anyone, this isn't new scripture, if that's what HE's claiming.

John Dehlin will give anyone time on his internet soapbox if he thinks it will undermine the LDS church.
Well, we shall see soon, it seems, what Denver Snuffer's claim will be from his own mouth, but as it appears, his followers seem to be claiming that it is a revelation.
There is a statement at the beginning stating that it is a newly revealed account.
I'm always right.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby alaris » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:07 pm

Finrock wrote:
EdGoble wrote:It used to be that when you would say the name Denver, it meant either the city, or the dead singer. Now somehow everybody knows this new rockstar-of-ex-Mormondom guy by his first name, and he is even a rockstar even among Middle Way Mormons and Postmormon Mormon-Stories faithful since John Dehlin, a false prophet in his own right of a different sort, rolls out the red carpet for him and sings praises of him.

It has been an interesting ride watching this man's rise to fame, and watching the formerly solid people who were pillars of faithfulness around me fall for his sophistries. It has been interesting to watch the rise of the so-called Mormon Remnant from its infancy to its adolescence, among those who had the spirit of evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, who sought for the "easy path" to calling and election so they didn't have to bother giving deference and repsect and submission to the keys of the priesthood that those keys deserve, who have basically become yet another secret combination in the Church, some of them that think that they can maintain one foot in the Church, yet while secretly seeking for rebaptism under the hand of the rebaptizers, and secret fellowship with the new "remnant."

It was only a matter of time before Denver Snuffer produced his own scripture like all the false prophets before him. A more sophisticated and more cloven-tongued and cool-sounding scripture than that from Art Bulla and Terrill Dalton who are less-sophisticated deceivers, but just the same in substance and by the same spirit as that produced by them. And for those that follow the Exmormon reddits and message boards would know, now John Dehlin is singing his praises once again, and approaching him to have yet another appearance on Mormon Stories to talk about how he has produced this new scripture, and how only this man is prophesying, and how they claim the brethren are not, because there is no new "thus saith the Lord" revelations coming from the Mormon hierarchy to satiate the lusts of sign seekers.

It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.

It was only a matter of time.
This would be more potent if it didn't sound exactly like the rhetoric of all the anti-Mormons, but for them target is not Denver Snuffer, the target is Joseph Smith. Replace Denver Snuffer and put in Joseph Smith and you sound like the typical anti-Mormon, making the same anti-Mormon claims.

Why do I post this? I don't know, its just ironic I guess. My pet peeve seems to be special pleading. Sorry...

-Finrock
I think people are reading into this too much. It's a relevant point because too many mormons treat others exactly the same way we have been treated. If DS is wrong then let's state why rather than offering platitudes and accusations. Bringing forth scripture is a sign of both false and true prophets as is leaving the mainstream and starting with a small audience...etc etc basically cults are usually bad but sometimes are Jesus or Abraham or Joseph Smith. Me? I have no opinion on DS as my quest for truth and righteousness has never lead me there. But I would never reject someone for claiming new scripture without cause or trying the spirit. That's exactly what's wrong with so many Christians vs LDS. You may miss the sealed 2\3 portion when it arrives with that attitude.
Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.
I can teach you, but I cannot understand it for you.

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Joel
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What Kind Jew Are You?

Postby Joel » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:29 pm

new scripture can happen depending on people beliefs

Image

seems this is what happens in people's brains

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby gruden2.0 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:29 pm

EdGoble wrote:It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.

It was only a matter of time.
Did you read it? Hard to discern anything without looking at it, otherwise you're confusing discernment with bias.
The time will come when this people will be led onto the very brink of hell by their leaders, then the one mighty and strong will come to set the house of God in order. Brigham Young, Mosiah Hancock journal, pg. 19

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby EdGoble » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:07 am

gruden2.0 wrote:
EdGoble wrote:It was only a matter of time. Now Denver has shown his true colors. He has now produced new so-called scripture. Now for those who will read this scripture and some kind of spirit speaks the "truthfulness" of it to them, those of us who have any kind of discernment from the Holy Ghost will know that they are misled by false spirits, as this man was misled by false spirits to write it in the first place. This man speaks and writes by some spirit other than the spirit of truth. Only those that actually follow the voice of the Lord will have discernment of such things in time to come, because the words in this new "scripture" will sound neat and sophisticated and desirable to those with the itching ears, who desire things that are poison to them, like the forbidden fruit of old was desired by Eve, when she became convinced that it would be good for her to eat it.

It was only a matter of time.
Did you read it? Hard to discern anything without looking at it, otherwise you're confusing discernment with bias.
I love the Snufferite/Denver-Snuffer-fan comebacks. Entertaining.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby FTC » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:00 am

Half the people in these forums write what effectively amounts to new scripture on a weekly basis.
In any case, it will be fun to have some new material to anti-prophesy against. :D
As cucumber is, pickle once was. As pickle is, cucumber may become.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby Libertybelle2012 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:05 am

I have recently walked away from the church but it has nothing to do with Denver. In fact, i have only read one and a half of his talks and there is nothing that is out of line with the doctrine of Christ.

So, you may be wondering why I have separated from a church I was true and loyal to? I hope that all of you, who are eager to persecute verbally those of us who have walked away, will be willing to listen to me so you don't make the mistake in thinking that DS is the cause for everyone's departure

The church forced me to choose between them and JS. There were things that did not set right with me here and there but I brought my views into line with the brethren because I believed they were true prophets.

However, when the leaders changed doctrine of children being baptized because of the sin of their parents, I knew their was something seriously wrong. They called it revelation after they were uncovered. However, I still kept going and praying for understanding. It never came, the only thing that come to my mind was the scripture to not forbid the children to come unto Christ.

Then... the letter urging all members to vote against any legislation that would allow the legalization of cannabis for recreational use was read in church! This should offend every member of this group. It does not matter whether or not YOU agree with the use or not, you do not have the right to dictate someone else's life.

It was then that I was lead to a book called Joseph Fought Polygamy that put the nail in the coffin for me. I despise this doctrine and have always felt it was wrong, because I knew JS was a true PSR and the BOM was true, I swallowed my feelings about it and continued on in my life as a faithful member of the church.

I have walked away from the church, fellowship with many DS followers and have found the greatest joy.

You want to condemn and point fingers at those who follow Denver as being mislead, you better look in the mirror. They are no more mislead than you are.

So, there you have it! I follow the doctrine that JS revealed. That makes me a true Latter Day Saint. My suggestion to all of you is cast the beam out of your own eye first.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby kittycat51 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:28 am

Sad :(

Zion2080
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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby Zion2080 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:41 am

This is exactly was Christ was talking about in these days. This is a great example. It will get worse; even to a a point where the righteous saints will have to flee their towns escape to the Rockies.
-Zion2100

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby DesertWonderer » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:12 pm

Normally it is obvious to me when people are purposefully trying to lead people astray and do it in as coyly a manner as possible. In this case I just don't know. LB2012 might actually believe this. Which is the sadder situation?

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby Jonesy1982 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:17 pm

Libertybelle2012 wrote:I have recently walked away from the church but it has nothing to do with Denver. In fact, i have only read one and a half of his talks and there is nothing that is out of line with the doctrine of Christ.
I get where you're coming from. But I think if we're going to move anywhere, it must be through the keys that have been passed on to those who now hold them. I know you probably don't believe in those keys anymore, but they we're passed through to Brigham Young and onward. God chose our leaders for better or for worse, and if there is one thing I know, it is that the gods that we know, don't make mistakes and they definitely don't lose. If proven otherwise, then they are simply not gods. But I testify to you that they are Gods and that this is His church, and there is nor will be other, and that the twelve apostles are His council and that the prophet Thomas S. Monson is his mouth piece. In other words, my spiritual compass tells me that they are leading us to Zion, but they may take a stop near the brink of hell (as Brigham Young said), not that they will lead us to hell, for the prophet of GOD will never lead his church astray. But that they will have to make a stop in the port of hell to drop some filthy souls that are heading that way. And others want to go to the celestial kingdom, that is those of those idolaters of Peter, Joseph Smith, Apollos, Paul,Hinkcley and Monson among others. But that is not their final destination.

So, my plea to you and to all others is to stay on the ship to Zion.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby Spider » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:35 pm

Libertybelle2012 wrote: Then... the letter urging all members to vote against any legislation that would allow the legalization of cannabis for recreational use was read in church! This should offend every member of this group. It does not matter whether or not YOU agree with the use or not, you do not have the right to dictate someone else's life.
.
Governments dictate which rights we have all the time. We are told we don't have the right to kill someone or run a red stop light. And dictating rights are based on a community standard which means we as a people have the right to decide which rights do or do not fit our community standard. Our country was founded on John Locke's philosophies where he believed the benefit of the many takes precedence over the benefit of the one. Unfortunately many students aren't learning these principles in school any more.

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby freedomforall » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:39 am

Take this to the bank...this is not a forum for discussion concerning Denver Snuffer. ANYONE thinking otherwise, read the forum rules. Look how much contention has arisen since the OP. There have been trouble makers that thought forum rules didn't apply to them and paid for their assumptions. This fact is not a strawman so why not cool your jets? And A12 has a good reason for stating truth that apparently some people can't handle.

Brian wrote:
What this forum is not.
It is not an anti-Mormon/anti-LDS forum, not a Denver Snuffer forum, not a forum for any ‘remnant’ or LDS offshoot communities/movements/groups, not a RLDS or FLDS forum, and not a forum for being bitter, critical, or accusatory towards LDS Church leaders.

As already stated, DS was excommunicated for apostasy and doctrine not in line with official church doctrine.
GUESS WHO

REALITY...IS NOTHING MORE THAN FANTASY IN ACTION.

To the very best of my recollection...I don't remember!

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby shadow » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:39 pm

Libertybelle2012 wrote:I have recently walked away from the church but it has nothing to do with Denver. In fact, i have only read one and a half of his talks and there is nothing that is out of line with the doctrine of Christ. ...

So, there you have it! I follow the doctrine that JS revealed. That makes me a true Latter Day Saint and one who is not being mislead. My suggestion to all of you is cast the beam out of your own eye first.
There are plenty who see things differently than you, who have also had their prayers answered. Heck, some have also written non-fiction books regarding Joseph's polygamy.
This imminent stuff is taking for-freaking-ever :-w

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby AI2.0 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:25 pm

My responses in blue:
Libertybelle2012 wrote:I have recently walked away from the church but it has nothing to do with Denver. In fact, i have only read one and a half of his talks and there is nothing that is out of line with the doctrine of Christ.I can understand why you would believe this, much of what Denver Snuffer has written is not out of line--in fact, I understand that some of his earlier books are in line with church teachings. However, from my own experience reading his lectures and blog posts, I think you haven't read enough or you are possibly not that well versed in gospel teachings because you will certainly find that his writings do include things that are not in line with the doctrine of Christ.

So, you may be wondering why I have seperated from a church I was true and loyal to? I hope that all of you, who are eager to persecute verbally those of us who have walked away, will be willing to listen to me so you don't make the mistake in thinking that DS is the cause for everyone's departure

The church forced me to choose between them and JS. There were things that did not set right with me here and there but I brought my views into line with the brethren because I believed they were true prophets. I don't believe the church forced you to do anything. I think you lost faith in the living prophets, and whether you like it or admit it, faith in the doctrine of continuing revelation and living prophets IS a foundational principle of the LDS church. You cannot choose to not believe in this and remain comfortable within the church.

However, when the leaders changed doctrine of children being baptized because of the sin of their parents, I knew their was something seriously wrong. They called it revelation after they were uncovered. However, I still kept going and praying for understanding. It never came, the only thing that come to my mind was the scripture to not forbid the children to come unto Christ.Since the majority of the members understand the purpose for this policy and feel at peace with it, then I think most of us see the reason for this and trust our church leaders to do what is right and necessary for the times--but apparently you do not. Were you upset that children of polygamous parents have been in the same boat for decades? Why was that not a concern for you? Or were you able to see the wisdom in that policy?

Then... the letter urging all members to vote against any legislation that would allow the legalization of cannabis for recreational use was read in church! This should offend every member of this group. It does not matter whether or not YOU agree with the use or not, you do not have the right to dictate someone else's life. Of course the church will take a stand, it is their obligation and duty to support societal laws which help us from degrading into chaos and unchecked wickedness. Are you seriously angry at the church for not wanting to see drugs take further hold on our society??? Can you NOT SEE where we are headed? Do you not see that drug addiction is a serious problem and is destroying families, the potential of people--allowing them to live their lives in a drug infused stupor? And, actually, society does have the right to dictate what will and won't be legal. That's what laws are about. You might want to spend some time studying history and various societies so you can understand why laws are passed and why you don't really want to live in a society where there are no restrictions on what people can and can't do.

It was then that I was lead to a book called Joseph Fought Polygamy that put the nail in the coffin for me. I despise this doctrine and have always felt it was wrong, because I knew JS was a true PSR and the BOM was true, I swallowed my feelings about it and continued on in my life as a faithful member of the church I guess you were glad to find a book that supported your long held beliefs. FYI, if the book is telling you that, it's wrong. Joseph Smith did practice polygamy- he didn't fight it. But if it makes you feel good to believe lies, that's your prerogative, no one can force truth on you.

I have walked away from the church, fellowship with many DS followers and have found the greatest joy. If you were unsure and wanted to listen to my explanations and were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, then I'd be happy to discuss with you--and I'm sure other members would be too, but if your mind is made up and you have such a terrible opinion of us, our leaders and our church, then there's no point in discussion. You clearly cannot respect us if you have such a low opinion of us.

You want to condemn and point fingers at those who follow Denver as being mislead, you better look in the mirror. They are no more mislead than you are.. Yes, I do believe in the line of authority 'nonsense'. I have a testimony of this gospel and the Lord's 'only true and living church on the earth'. I know Thomas S. Monson is a prophet of God, he has the keys to lead us and he leads us through divine revelation. I know that Jesus Christ is my Savior and he leads and guides THIS CHURCH. I know that Joseph Smith Jr., Brigham Young and all the others down to Pres. Monson were prophets, seers and revelators. I know that we have 12 apostles who also receive revelation and they hold the priesthood authority to do so. The Book of Mormon is divine scripture and if we read it and pray, with a humble heart, we can know the truths that are contained in it.

So, there you have it! I follow the doctrine that JS revealed. That makes me a true Latter Day Saint and one who is not being mislead. My suggestion to all of you is cast the beam out of your own eye first.
I'm sorry, but you have stopped your own progression by refusing to accept the very basic tenet of what used to be your faith--and that is continuing revelation from a Prophet of God--one who has the priesthood authority to lead and guide you--unless you reject it--which apparently you have. This may sound harsh, but Joseph Smith Jr. would be the first to tell you that you've rejected the gospel he restored and gave his life for. The church he restored was to be led by a living prophet, through priesthood authority, 12 apostles, temple ordinances etc. 'line upon line, precept upon precept', over time preparing a humble, teachable Zion people. There was no place in his church for someone 'wresting keys' because they refused to humble themselves to that authority and admit they were out of harmony. There is no place for the proud, the rebellious, those who refuse to be taught, this church is too uncomfortable for them--they take themselves out, just as you have done.

I don't know how much you'll enjoy this forum now that you've taken a stand against the LDS church. Just be warned that if you continue to say such derogatory things about the LDS faith, there are enough of us devout members here that we will challenge you in defense of our beliefs.
"...the ultimate most annoying person on this forum, A.120!"

Plato — 'One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.'

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Re: It was only a matter of time....

Postby investigator » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:49 pm

The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets, and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these had to hide themselves ‘in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth, (see Hebrews 11:38), and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men.” (DHC, Vol. 4, p. 574; also TPJS, p. 206.)


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