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Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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The first step in America's IDEOLOGICAL SUBVERSION was our DEMORALIZATION. Therefore, the only way to defend the Constitution is not to fight constitutional issues, put to fight SIN and to preach repentance and to encourage keeping Gods law. We must somehow REMORALALIZE America.

Remember our covenant with God. Inasmuch as we will keep the commandments of God we will be a free people on this continent. And inasmuch as we do not keep the commandments of God we will be cut off.

It's that simple. Preaching repentance is much more important than preaching against government corruption or individual constitutional issues. SIN is the root of the problem. if the LDS leadership were to preach about government corruption, 911, ect. They would open themselves up for being infiltrated by agent provocateur anarchists and for inciting anti-government and anti-American sentiments just as has been done with Islam.

Fighting the battles to "End the Fed" or "Legalizing Marijuana" or the "Police State" or whatever else Constitutional issue is just treating symptoms but not getting at the root of the problems in America. Yuri Bezmenov (ex-KGB? I think current) talked about demoralization resulting in ideological subversion but made the same mistake in telling America it needed to fight Constitutional issues and said nothing about repentance. But he was correct when de said a demoralized person can't even recognize truth or reality until the boot comes crushing down on their neck.
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Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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My friend is a linguist for the millitary. The military compartmentalizes everyone of the linguists into "shops". My friend told me there are 2 shops in his area. One shop is allowed to put pornography all over the walls of the office/cubicles and blast rock/metal music. Naturally the porn and metal attract a certain kind of person while the "good" guys operate in clean and quiet office.

Now, do you think it be a stretch to assume that the "bad boys" got to see and deal with much different intelligence than the "clean guys?". I am sure they are told that the clean guys just couldn't handle dealing with intel on human trafficking. drugs, guns, pedophilia ect. And the most common way the CIA Black Ops supports this kind of opportunity is by claiming "we were working with this group to get info on other groups" or "we were tracking/protecting this operative so he would lead us to his higher ups" when in reality WE are the higher ups. In Mexico ATF said "we were shipping guns all over so we could track them". And "yep, all the drug cartels are getting them and using them.". CIA says, "working with unsavory people is a necessary evil and part of the job". But tracking can very easily becomes protecting.

See, when you have weak-minded demoralized people, they will believe anything. But if you got rid of the SIN, you would get rid of the "bad shop" and you would prevent the Latter-Day Gadiantons an avenue to infiltrate the military and government.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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I have heard about the dark side vs. white side of government. Joel Skousen has discussed this concept a few times. The government uses "corrupted" people to do some of their dirty work and they can blackmail them too.
People like Henry Kissinger introduced the idea of "Realpolitik" into our system. Realpolitik operates under the premise that the ends justify the means... even when you have to commit evil to reach your end goal. That is why it is easy to understand the rationale behind false flag terror. Satan would love us to believe that the end always justifies the means. That is how evil is spawned, rationalized, protected, and grown. I believe the evil has spread like a cancer.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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My main point is that America was once guided by principles and values. That morality brings true vitality and strength to the nation. However, we are now a nation guided by realpolitik.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Good points, thx
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Exactly.

Over the past few years when I argued and thought that a return to the Constitution was a legitimate way to save America, one thing I noticed was that when discussing with someone who wasn't a Christian we couldn't get very far when discussing returning to the Constitution's Original Intent. The revised history amongst the academicians now is that the Constitution was solely a child of the Enlightenment, that America was a bastion of freedom from religion as opposed to freedom for religion (i.e. the true Gospel), that our rights aren't based in religious tradition; et al. Thus, even if we could miraculously return to Constitutional principles and obedience it would do us no good without returning to the Puritan culture and morality driving it because it would fall apart very fast, like the short-lived turnout of the English Civil War.
D&C 136:21-23
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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By the way (sorry for the double post; too lazy to edit my first one) I love your avatar, davedan. Where'd you get the picture from?
D&C 136:21-23
I am the Lord your God, even the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham and of Isaac and Jacob. I am he who led the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; and my arm is stretched out in the last days, to save my people Israel.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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There was a great thread a while back on this subject.... Repentance became the key issue debated. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10965
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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We also need to repent of not supporting consitutional issues.

If we don;t watch ourselves we will lose our first amendment rights to preach repentance at all.

Don't think this should be or can be an either/or or this vs. that issue.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Original_intent

The reason for rehashing this topic over and over is the seeming continual criticism of LDS leadership for not being more outspoken about 911, about constitutional issues, or about government corruption.

I agree that we need not ignore constitutional issues, but after we have repented, only then can we see clearly and be unified enough to return to constitutional principles.

For example, if we would return to a culture of morality and chastity, we would have much less illegitamacy, less poverty, and less need for Social Wellfare programs.

Matthew.B

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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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I see where youare coming from and agree.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Great thread. And it definitely reminded me of why it is essential to be or at least possess moral values. Our country is decaying and if people don't want Christ in their lives or any kind of moral compass, then there's no reason for them to see a need for the Constitution. I'll have to look up the other linked one. Thanks!!
22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.
23 Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden me by my right hand.
24 Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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[7] And the Lord would not suffer that they should stop beyond the sea in the wilderness, but he would that they should come forth even unto the land of promise, which was choice above all other lands, which the Lord God had preserved for a righteous people.

[8] And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them.

[9] And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity.

[10] For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off.

[11] And this cometh unto you, O ye Gentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God -- that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the wrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done.

[12] Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written.

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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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This is such a true message. Our government is lost because its members believe they need to play ball with the big 'evil' people of the world. Problem is to play the game they believe they need to act even more evil then the evil people. Our government is corrupt because its members have become corrupt. I see this time and time again.

Whenever we need to interview a suspect one officer will be the 'good' cop and the other the 'bad' cop. The 'bad' cop will lie and manipulate to obtain information, while the 'good' cop will lie and manipulate to obtain information. This is also how our military intelligence units work out in the field.

We need to return to proper principles and stop trying to play ball with the big 'evil' people! If we are true to the proper principles established by our Heavenly Father, we will have nothing to fear because our enemies will destroy each other.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Like-

Great references

Tribunal-

I like your points about "good cop" "bad cop". In fact in the globalist grand chess game, they control both the "white hats" and the "black hats.". They do this so no matter who wins, they win and we loose; even if we are fooled into thinking we won (ww2). Knowing this it is as important to look out for the evil scheming "white hats" as it is to beware of the "dark pieces".

There are many out there calling for a return to Contisitional values
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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But they say very little about repentance. They would like us to waste our energies treating symptoms and not treating the root cause of our problems.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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"I agree that we need not ignore constitutional issues, but after we have repented, only then can we see clearly and be unified enough to return to constitutional principles." Davedan

I appreciate this topic. Now I can see why prophets aren't speaking of constitutuional issues directly. I'm still puzzled though about how preaching repentence, at least preaching it alone, would bring people back to constitutuional principles. I think after people are made aware of their wrongdoings/beliefs through love and patience and education then they are ready for repentance. As I've mentioned before, CPS showed up at my door threatening to take my children based on heresay. Well, most people don't know that CPS has no authority unless one gives it to them by allowing them into the home/access to one's children. How in this situation would preaching repentence raise an awareness in the publics mind as to how to protect themselves from this illegal and dangerous government incroachment?

I'd love an example of how preaching repentence has worked in any of your lives to get people back to the founding principles and ultimately freedom.

Thanks!
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Weak-minded demoralized CPS agents are easily manipulated into thinking the nanny-state must insert itself into every aspect of your life.

Since the demoralized person cannot govern their own life nor bridle their own appetites, neither can anyone else.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Ether 8:23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins,
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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I agree that the only thing we can do is preach the gospel. Look at what was said at conference. Look at how they are trying to get cleaner and more missionaries. Look at how they are trying to get all worthy members endowed. The biggest problem is this world is our own sins. But it is easier to talk about how corrupt the government and everyone else is than it is to look at where we are corrupt in our own life.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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I recognize that the gospel needs to be preached, understood, and abided by. But please, people, do not forget that (according to the Church publication "Principles of the Gospel") the Constitution of the United States is a principle of the gospel of Christ. Just don't expect many members to understand that.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Lunibeck-

I agree, LDS are unique in their belief that the US Constitution is an inspired God-given document. When I read Joseph Smiths words in the D&C, it could be said the Constitution is practically scripture.

We do need to stand up for and defend the ideals and principles contained in the Constitution. However, what I am saying is that this fight to defend Constitutionsl issues will be a loosing battle if our people have not RETURNED TO VIRTUE first.

LDS need to lead the way in America's return to virtue.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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davedan wrote:Lunibeck-

I agree, LDS are unique in their belief that the US Constitution is an inspired God-given document. When I read Joseph Smiths words in the D&C, it could be said the Constitution is practically scripture.

We do need to stand up for and defend the ideals and principles contained in the Constitution. However, what I am saying is that this fight to defend Constitutionsl issues will be a loosing battle if our people have not RETURNED TO VIRTUE first.

LDS need to lead the way in America's return to virtue.



You are absolutely correct here dave. This should be a given to anyone who has read either the founders or the scriptures.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Yes repentance / righteousness is key to the survival of any nation. "Righteousness exalteth a nation". In those talks Pres. Benson gave in which he outlined 4 or 5 steps of what we should be doing the first was always about being righteous.

Also, part of repentance is that we repent of those sins of omission from being ignorant, apathetic, and complacent in regards to our civic duty.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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I have found that LDS are not unique in their belief that the US Constitution is an inspired God-given document. In the Arizona Constitution Party I associate with people active in non-LDS churches who have stated their convictions (testimony, if you like) that the Constitution was inspired by God. And there are others of other faiths on the national level of the CP who also believe the Constitution was inspired of God.

I get the impression that some LDSs think we should put study and support of the Constitution aside until we have mastered certain other principles of the gospel. I don't think that is wise of LDSs who are aware of their responsibility to the principles of the Constitution and liberty.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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People of couse believe truth individually. As talk with people about the gospel, I find that a majority of people individually believe in many true principals even if their denomination or non-denomination church may not exactly hold or teach that same view.

This post is not focused on trying to throw cold water on individual lds members responsibity to be politically active. This post is more focused on explaining why LDS leadership may not seem as outspoken against US government corruption as Pres. Benson or Pres J Ruben Clark were.

Which Constitutional issue do you think we should ger behind to defend first. Satans strategy is divide and conquer. He is hitting at so many fronts, it would be difficult to get people unified against any one issue. College Students are protesting wallstreet right now, do you think it's our responsibility to be blocking traffic on the Brooklyn bridge right now?

Americas only hope is a push to return to virtue and traditional values. Only when the American people can learn to control their appetites and behavior will the principles of "self-government" become "self-evident" again. For people who cannot exercise self restraint, they need government to hold their hand.

Self-governent, self-restraint, and virtue is the most fundamental Constitutional issue of all. This is the most important issue we should become unified behind.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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Who was it, then, that said the Constitution was made only for a righteous people and is no good for any other ?

LDS leadership is clearly not outspoken against US government corruption as Pres. Benson or Pres J. Ruben Clark were. I believe the reason is concern about likely retribution from the latter-day gadiantons, or those murderous combination that have gotten above us. If I understand John the Revelator correctly, that's gonna happen anyway as the "beast" makes war with the Saints and overcomes them. I believe a turn about to greatly increased righteousness could avert much or most of the prophecied agony, but I haven't faith in it happening.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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1Tim 1:9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Constitution = Self government

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and righteous people. It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other."
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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-John Adams

We are not supposed to have lots of little laws for this and that. If we have injured another party. We are supposed to be judged by a jury of our peers according to Natural Law = Golden Rule.
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Re: Repentance vs Constitutional Issues

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davedan wrote:-John Adams

We are not supposed to have lots of little laws for this and that. If we have injured another party. We are supposed to be judged by a jury of our peers according to Natural Law = Golden Rule.


...long dead!
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