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by Hyrcanus
Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:39 pm
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Polygamist descendants of Joseph Smith?
Replies: 75
Views: 5073

Re: Polygamist descendants of Joseph Smith?

Brian Hales makes the claim in his book that Joseph wasn't consummating these polygamous marriages. Which would explain the possible lack of offspring. I personally don't buy that, but I put it forward for consideration. I think you are greatly misunderstanding Hales' position. He continually admit...
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:34 pm
Forum: Last Days / Signs of the Times
Topic: modern day Sodom and Gomorrah
Replies: 97
Views: 8046

Re: modern day Sodom and Gomorrah

The former majority used the power it had to grant itself special benefits and protections under the law. It used the government it controlled as a bludgeon against opponents. Now we're disgusted and shocked that the new majority is anxious to use that same authority we gave the government to attack...
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:29 pm
Forum: Gospel Discussions
Topic: The Cult of the Firstborn
Replies: 87
Views: 3423

Re: The Cult of the Firstborn

Every internet forum has a tendency to evolve certain groupthink/clique/cult tendencies, it is actually pretty hard to avoid in any group of like minded humans. I dislike the term cult, it is almost always used as a pejorative term that as defined could fit any group believers you want to attack. I ...
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:59 pm
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Should I say something?
Replies: 48
Views: 3593

Re: Should I say something?

You have two ways you can approach this: 1. Have a straightforward but caring conversation with her. Express your desire to help and then present your two main concerns along with possible solutions. For example: "Sister Jones, I want to help you, I understand the challenge you have trying to s...
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:40 am
Forum: Gospel Discussions
Topic: How do you resolve this in your own mind?
Replies: 47
Views: 2031

Re: How do you resolve this in your own mind?

With regards to the Church not "directing" or "coordinating", this is largely a matter of perception. All the Church has to do to avoid meeting a technical definition of those terms is "notify" the leaders of a problem and then leave it to the leaders to act on the info...
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:53 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Polygamist descendants of Joseph Smith?
Replies: 75
Views: 5073

Re: Polygamist descendants of Joseph Smith?

There is no doubt he practiced it. Just read my links, and pay close attention to the situation surrounding Joseph-ine Rosetta Lyon. You do make a pretty strong case Joseph practiced polygamy. However, there is still some lingering doubt in my mind. I would dearly love to finally have some DNA evid...
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:43 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Polygamist descendants of Joseph Smith?
Replies: 75
Views: 5073

Re: Polygamist descendants of Joseph Smith?

@Ezra - Thank you SO much for such an in depth discussion of this subject. It is intensely fascinating. One thing I note in your comments, however, is that it seems like most of the evidence for Joseph's polygamy come from people who went to Utah with Brigham. What non Utah sources are there? For e...
by Hyrcanus
Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:07 pm
Forum: Gospel Discussions
Topic: Faith crisis or Truth crisis?
Replies: 3
Views: 381

Re: Faith crisis or Truth crisis?

Absolute truth exists, but getting to it is the challenge. In that sense, every crisis is a faith crisis. One person can look at Polygamy and still be a wholehearted believer, another looks at the same thing and no longer chooses to believe. This doesn't just apply to the LDS Church, every faith has...
by Hyrcanus
Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:20 am
Forum: News
Topic: Amendment 3 ruled unconstitutional by 10th Appeals Court
Replies: 19
Views: 983

Re: Amendment 3 ruled unconstitutional by 10th Appeals Court

Government helped define and give benefits to the marriage contract-BECAUSE it found that the contract with its implicit and explicit terms and conditions was BENEFICIAL to society. As to whether government should have done this is certainly debatable, but that's not the point. The point is that sa...
by Hyrcanus
Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:07 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

It's more complicated than that. Joseph taught that God would never allow polygamy while he was living it. I wonder if we've corrupted the intent of Joseph Smith regarding polygamy versus plural marriage, just like we've corrupted the meaning of the priesthood, tithing, and the very definition of m...
by Hyrcanus
Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:42 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Saving Seats in Church: When Is It Too Much?
Replies: 22
Views: 1492

Re: Saving Seats in Church: When Is It Too Much?

The seat saving thing is ridiculous. I've never seen anything like what is being described in any of the wards I've been in.

Taking a crying child out to the foyer is easy, I do it nearly every week. No reason to make disrupt other people because I don't feel like taking care of my child.
by Hyrcanus
Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:42 pm
Forum: Principles of Liberty
Topic: Anarcho-capitalism: Truth Mingled with Philosophy of Men?
Replies: 19
Views: 1866

Re: Anarcho-capitalism: Truth Mingled with Philosophy of Men

I can live with AnCap and I can live with a libertarian style model. I personally think the Constitution gave too much power to the Federal government in the first place. It went off the rails within just a couple years of getting started. But going back to the original model would still be a vast ...
by Hyrcanus
Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:35 pm
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

I've concluded that he taught against polygamy. He also taught for it. When God commands it, it's of God. When He doesn't, it's an abomination. There have been plenty of LDS's that wanted it, lived it, but weren't commanded. There have been many that were commanded. One bad. One good. This is how J...
by Hyrcanus
Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:01 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

Perhaps this should be another thread, but I just read the polygamy stuff and at least found it compelling. Like others, I have always been puzzled by Joseph's bizarre behavior, where on one hand he promised to "root out polygamy" and on the other hand, was practicing it in secret. If it ...
by Hyrcanus
Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:17 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

Perhaps this should be another thread, but I just read the polygamy stuff and at least found it compelling. Like others, I have always been puzzled by Joseph's bizarre behavior, where on one hand he promised to "root out polygamy" and on the other hand, was practicing it in secret. If it ...
by Hyrcanus
Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:56 am
Forum: News
Topic: Amendment 3 ruled unconstitutional by 10th Appeals Court
Replies: 19
Views: 983

Re: Amendment 3 ruled unconstitutional by 10th Appeals Court

let me just point out that an amendment to a constitution can't be unconstitutional, since by definition: IT IS THE CONSTITUTION. In this case it was Utah's state constitutional amendment that was ruled a violation of the US Constitution. The US Constitution is the final law of the land, it overrid...
by Hyrcanus
Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:52 am
Forum: Principles of Liberty
Topic: Anarcho-capitalism: Truth Mingled with Philosophy of Men?
Replies: 19
Views: 1866

Re: Anarcho-capitalism: Truth Mingled with Philosophy of Men

I personally prefer the smallest amount of government possible. I can live with AnCap and I can live with a libertarian style model. I personally think the Constitution gave too much power to the Federal government in the first place. It went off the rails within just a couple years of getting start...
by Hyrcanus
Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:41 am
Forum: News
Topic: Amendment 3 ruled unconstitutional by 10th Appeals Court
Replies: 19
Views: 983

Re: Amendment 3 ruled unconstitutional by 10th Appeals Court

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865605769/Utah-cannot-deny-right-to-marry-based-on-gender-appeals-court-rules.html Christ can't come soon enough This is what you get for giving the government any say in the matter of marriage. The very thing the founders of the United States worried about, gover...
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:52 pm
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

They haven't avoided the hard historical pieces, they just didn't include everything in volume I, which serves as really only a preface and overview. Volume II is coming out in hardback soon, followed by a third volume. Meanwhile you can read all the chapters free online, and they certainly didn't ...
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:49 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

Regarding the Price's I'm not dismissing anything.... I I think they avoid some of the hardest historical pieces to deal with (Whitney Letter as an example) and they are extremely guilty of cherry picking their sources. They haven't avoided the hard historical pieces, they just didn't include every...
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:44 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

Mala_Suerte wrote:Who is Rock Waterman?

A blogger being disciplined (likely excommunicated) by the Church.
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:17 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: anyone in law enforcement?
Replies: 2
Views: 336

Re: anyone in law enforcement?

I just hope they catch him before he brings my sister down with him. He's a gang member to. Like part of that Ogden threces. He's been getting my sister to run him around, and she even hid him out at my parents house over the last week, while my parents were in Europe. Just a small piece of advice,...
by Hyrcanus
Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:10 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

Who says -- besides Rock Waterman or others -- that they have been dishonest about it? Who says these were ordered from the top? You don't have to be the prophet to see the apostasy here with these people. The assumption that the Twelve or the First Presidency is behind this is just that -- an assu...
by Hyrcanus
Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:59 pm
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Poll: The moderation on LDSFF is:
Replies: 38
Views: 1717

Re: Poll: The moderation on LDSFF is:

My point is that I find it ironic that the LDS, most true and free of all (supposedly), must be so carefully monitored in what they (or anyone else) might say. And we're not just talking gross or heinous postings. There is an interesting parallel between the Church whose leadership believes they ha...
by Hyrcanus
Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:45 pm
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

I don't want to turn this into an argument about Rock Waterman, I don't think that would be useful. As far as where he is wrong, I think he is demonstrably wrong on lots of things. One example is his position on polygamy and Joseph Smith, which relies on the poorly researched book by Richard Price ...
by Hyrcanus
Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:36 pm
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

Local authorities take care of discipline when dealing with typical issues like moral sin, adultery, etc. It is appropriate that the General Authorities should be coming down on bloggers and authors who affect larger swaths of members. If you're leading astray whole groups, top down discipline is a...
by Hyrcanus
Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:24 pm
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

All I meant with that link and post was that President Packer, speaking for the church, once said that they don't discipline members for thinking what they want, but that is obviously not the case as we are witnessing right now with Snuff, Rock and others. I posted this on another thread, but it mi...
by Hyrcanus
Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:07 pm
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today
Replies: 48
Views: 2739

Re: Rock Waterman interviewed on AM 630 in Salt Lake today

All I meant with that link and post was that President Packer, speaking for the church, once said that they don't discipline members for thinking what they want, but that is obviously not the case as we are witnessing right now with Snuff, Rock and others. I posted this on another thread, but it mi...
by Hyrcanus
Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:49 pm
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Kate Kelly was excommunicated
Replies: 76
Views: 4726

Re: Kate Kelly was excommunicated

We always have a tendency to view the contemporary happenings as being somehow more important than the past. In reality, chances are that Kate Kelly will go the way of others excommunicated for this sort of activism in the past. Only a fraction of the Church is even aware of this, even fewer know en...
by Hyrcanus
Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:09 am
Forum: General Discussions
Topic: Poll: The moderation on LDSFF is:
Replies: 38
Views: 1717

Re: Poll: The moderation on LDSFF is:

I've always felt that the best counter to bad ideas/personal attacks/anger is a well formed argument and clear dialogue. I've rarely found that silencing those that offend actually helps the situation. Couple that with the difficulty human beings have in not letting their personal feelings influence...

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